Can anybody verify this works? It makes sense in theory, but does it actually work?
I'm needing to make up some new arrows and this would be great considering I don't have a good spline checker.
I also know that with carbons this isn't such a big deal, but I know it does make a difference.
Your wasting your time......olympic archers might need that kind of info....but bowhunters don't......your time would be better spent shooting your bow.
To answer the original question: Yes, this method will generally find the stiffest side of the arrow because the stiff side is also typically slightly thicker. This is done all the time on high-end fishing rods to make sure that the stiffest side is oriented directly away from the user.
If taking ten minutes to figure out the stiffest side of each arrow so that you can orient them all the same way makes you feel better, knock yourself out; however, doing so will not make any difference whatsoever to the average shooter.
If you don't think this matters, take one fletched arrow and shoot it into the target for reference. Then take your other bare shaft arrows and shoot them into the target. Check out how many different directions the tails of those arrows are pointing.
Pick one arrow and start twisting the nock into different positions and see how it affects the way the arrow hits the target.
I actually noticed this while bare shaft tuning my bow last time. I had one arrow that kept hitting tail high while the others were perfect. I remembered an old traditional tuning trick and nocked the arrow 180 degrees off. Sure enough the arrow hit perfect. I tested it with this arrow several times and the results were the same EVERY TIME. Nocked with bump out, tail high. Nocked with bump in, perfect.
After 30+ years of shooting archery, I'm pretty sure I know the difference between "spine" and "spline".
On rod sections you put one end on the table, the other end against your palm with the section at about a 45deg angle. With the other hand put some downward pressure in the middle of the section to flex it and then roll it side to side. The section will sorta flop to it weakest point. Never tried it with an arrow shaft.
The guys working on the details are wanting to be better than "average" and if they have been at it long, likely are.
The guys discouraging them are likely "average" or "below average" and resent anyone trying to improve as it makes them look worse. I have seen this in every sport I have been involved in. Not knocking "below average" as slight less than half the archers are exactly that. I am one of the "below average" ones, but intend to improve.
You are correct in your observation pertaining to turning nocks but what you are doing is orienting spine....Spline has nothing to do with an arrow.
I too turn the nock to see if it straightens out.....not sure if this is an old trick as nocks you can turn have been around for what????20 years/;)
Thats the reason some are arguing over the term "spline". It is something that doesn't matter to most compound shooters but it means everything to a traditional shooter who shoots wooden arrows. In fact, I'm betting that over 50% of compound shooters don't even have a clue that an arrow flexes more one way than it will another.
The only compound shooters who worry about it are the ones who are taking their shooting to a higher level.
Spine: Spine is probably the most important part of the arrow shaft and the most ignored. I presume the main reason for this is because it is the hardest for a manufacturer to get right and keep consistent. Also, it is one that cannot be measured very easily by the average person. Let's determine what spine is and do not confuse it with spline! Spline is what the fishing industry uses in order to get sort of the "back bone" of the fishing rod. This is sort of an overlap of material in order to get the stiffer side. Keeping this stiff side on the upper side makes it easier to handle when reeling in that big one! In archery you do not want a spline! You want an even consistent spine all the way around the shaft (circumferentially). Spine was established in modern times by Easton who uses a 29" arrow. You place this arrow on two posts measured out 28" apart. You then place a 1.94 pound weight in the middle of the shaft and measure how far the arrow shaft drops down. This gives you a static (non-moving) spine.
When an arrow is launched from a bow, the arrow flexes (dynamic spine). This flex needs to be a specific amount and stay consistent among all the arrows in order to carry a group. If the arrow flexes too much it becomes exceptionally critical. The smallest mistake made by the arrow increases substantially if the arrow is too weak.
If the arrow is too stiff it is not as critical, but does not give the best possible grouping. Thus it is far better for the arrow to be too stiff than too weak. That is why you may note that some companies fudge on the size arrow recommended towards the stiff side. This is far better than on the weak side. Since the arrow flexes upon being launched, you would want it to flex the same.
If the arrow is too stiff it will favor the left side while if the arrow is a bit weak, it favors the right side. Thus you will get lots of rights and lefts if you have lots of inconsistent spines in your arrows and that is exactly what you will get with many of the arrows on the market today. Since most of the archers do not know how to measure this spine, they are unaware of why they are not grouping so well. Also, you will note that most arrows that are sold in dozen groups, only 6 to 8 arrows will group and the rest will not. Again, this is due to the spine more than anything else. Sometimes they can get a few more arrows to group by moving the nock around the shaft a little in order to find a near correct spine. Many companies do not keep very tight tolerances on spine consistency. This causes all types of problems for the archer and the dealer. Of course, since most archers are not very good or accurate, they do not realize that the arrow is making them look even worse than what they really are. According to tests that I have been involved with, the tighter the spine tolerances the more accurate the arrows become. Keeping them .005" plus or minus is what was set years ago with aluminum arrows and their accuracy has been proven over the years. Some companies have spine deviations of over .040" plus or minus! Thus, it would be like putting spines of a 2113, 2116 and 2119 all in one group of arrows and expect them to shoot well. It will not happen!
Part of the reason for having so many spine inconsistencies is due to the material used. Some companies look for the cheapest product they can find in order to keep costs down. This severely causes huge spine deviations. Also, how the arrow is manufactured will cause spine inconsistencies. Most companies put the spine determining material on the outside and then grind it down to get as close to the weight they can get. However, this causes spine inconsistencies and breaks down the fibers that actually determine the spine. Cutting the materials requires tremendous precision in order to get the exact spines and many companies use like a paper cutting device to get their patterns. This gives a lot of spine inconsistencies as well. It also gives them a "spline" as talked about in the above paragraph.
Now if you consider the inconsistencies of spine, the straightness factors and weight factors, you can see why there is so many discrepancies in arrow shafts. The degree of importance is determined by what material is used. With aluminum arrows, the degree of importance is straightness, spine and then weight. With all carbon it is spine, straightness and then weight. The spine of an aluminum arrow is normally very good to start with.
However, this spine breaks down over time. Depending on the wall thickness spines of an aluminum arrow can break down as fast as 10 shots! This has been proven time and again by some of the best archers world wide. Although the only American manufacturer of aluminum shafts disputes this, the "proof is in the pudding"! Top archers will replace these arrows very quickly without anyone knowing any different.
Most all carbon arrows start to loose their spine over several hundred shots due to wear. As the arrow penetrates the target, the friction microscopically wears down the outer layer of carbon and since most companies have their spine determining layer on the outside, the spine gets weaker and weaker over time. The aluminum arrow breaks down for different reasons. The flexing of the shaft upon impact of the target, pulling the arrow out of the target and the launching of the arrow from the bow continues to flex the aluminum tube constantly and we all know what happens to metals when continuously flexing them back and forth.
Now you can understand some of the simple physics of what is happening to an arrow and why it is important to choose wisely when purchasing arrows.
With good ball bearing rollers it's not too hard to find it. Space the rollers as far apart as you can and use an old shaft to put pressure in the middle and roll the shaft with it. You can feel the spot you're looking for, normally the shaft will even stop rolling on that spot and the pressure point "tool" will slide. You can feel the spot you're looking for.(actually you are finding the "weak" side that way.)
What's so sad is Bowfreak posts an article that specifically addresses the issue of "spine" and "Spline" and you guys refuse to realize it!
"Let's determine what spine is and do not confuse it with spline! Spline is what the fishing industry uses in order to get sort of the "back bone" of the fishing rod. This is sort of an overlap of material in order to get the stiffer side. Keeping this stiff side on the upper side makes it easier to handle when reeling in that big one! In archery you do not want a spline!"
That's right, you don't want it, but the fact is it exists in very small amounts and it does affect arrow flight! Depending on how the shaft is made determines the actual effect it will have.
This exists in wooden shafts because of the grain direction of the wood. Therefore it is a much more important aspect of traditional bow tuning.
My thought is are you correcting the arrow or just covering up a bad arrow? IE making it fly a little better.
I also make sure every arrow is fletched the same IE the logo is in the same spot, nock...etc.
I have found results like someone posted......twisted some nocks around and 9 of the 12 fly better now instead of 7 of 12. Bad arrows are bad arrows in my book.
JMHO
The "spline" of any carbon blank will always be stiffer, but the "heavy" side of a carbon arrow may, or may not be stiffer.
This is why I shoot Carbon Tech arrows. They do not have a "spline" side of the shaft and are consistent in spine all the way around and up&down the shaft.
Spline is not a part nor a characteristic of an arrow shaft.
A spline is a "gear-like" feature machined into a wheel hub splndle, an axle, or a drive shaft. "Spline" may also refer to a key in a steel rod used as a motor driveshaft to which a gear, pulley, or flywheel is fitted.
"Spline" is an automotive or mechanical term.
"Spine" is a term used to refer to the stiffness of an arrow shaft.
But technically you're right. Splines basically keep things from spinning around a shaft, make it turn as one piece. It doesn't describe an abnormality in the SPINE when flexed in one direction vs another.
If I recall the (old?) Blackhawk Vapor shafts actually touted they were wrapped so as to have 3 separate seams at 120 degrees apart to compensate for the "spline" factor.
I liked em too, good shafts, killed a lot of stuff with them.
As noted by Bowfreak, all your doing floating carbon shafts is finding the heavy side of the shaft. Because most carbon shafts are centerless ground, the id and od may not be concentric and therefor the seam side may not be the stiffer spin.
I agree, I used it in my post as a reference to those who do use it. It is however a term used industry wide in other carbon blank uses ( fishing rods, golf club shafts ect...)
Could you provide a little more detail on using rollers to find the stiff side? Pictures would be great.
Thanks!
However, I find it hard to believe that very many bowhunters, or even those specializing in target archery, are accurate enough to notice whether their arrows were oriented cinsistently with respect to the "stiff side".
In my opinion, most bowhunters, me included, would probably benefit more by working on improving their form, sighting tehniques, reducing bow-hand torque, yardage estimation, and just plain old fashioned practice.
The Bible speaks of "straining on a gnat, and swallowing a camel". Maybe that applies to a lot of things. :-)
Again, no offense intended toward those who are inclined to seek the most accurate equipment possible. I'm sure it is a fun passtime.
Spike bull, are you saying its better to have the stiff side of the shaft down (touching the prongs of a drop away)? I am definately going to try the floating trick but didnt think it mattered which way the stiff side was as long as its consistent. If the stiff side needs to be downward touching the rest for maximum accuracy that's good to know. I might be taking it to crazy extremes but every little bit adds up :)
