United States Outfitters
Elk
USO was involved in a law suit years ago. They lost there law suit and it lead to the NR restrictions on tags in most western states. The law suit was very unpopular in the western states. That being said. I used them in the very beginning of me putting in for NR tags. I used them onetime for guiding. Was very successful. 194 mulie. I am pretty sure USO has changed ownership from back then.
I think the lawsuit was challenging the status quo of the NR quotas on public land. They lost, so the regs remained. It did no harm to NR hunters. Most thought it was self serving. Many were amazed that NR could be discriminated against on federally owned public land. I still am amazed. State land is very understandable, Federal land?
Seems all I have heard is negativ3e comments about them in every state they opperate in.
Think outside of the box, and book an elk hunt with a northern BC outfitter, like Tuchodi River Outfitters or Big Nine. You will see an astounding number of elk and have a true wilderness experience.
I used to guide for USO, before they were USO and for their first cpl years. I haven't talked to any of them in years but they should do you well, depending on the unit. Gila units you should be fine.
RHale is correct in his assessment of the lawsuit. It was strictly a business decision.
One thing to think about when going on an outfitted/guided hunt, do all the guides work together as a team to ensure all the hunters are in the Elk, sharing information on a daily basis? Or are all the guides "singles" that just got hired because the outfitter only has a few regular guys, and these singles keep all "their" spots to themselves because they don't want anybody knowing their "honey holes"?
USO was all about their bottom line ($$$)--- Arizonans can't stomach the name. Look up Audrey McQueen of Trophy Ridge Outfitters --- multiple-time world elk calling champion (orig from Luna, N.Mex., living now in N.E. Ariz). Would definitely give you a N.Mex. hunt worth remembering ...
I've hunted with Audrey and Roger McQueen, Trophy Ridge in NM twice and had great hunts both times. I have mobile phone numbers for both of them if you want them.
USO didn't change owners since George Taulman.... just changed the name of the owner on paper after the lawsuit ordeal.
New Mexico you shold just go DYI there are tones of elk, If you have any knowledge about elk you will be into them every hunt.
Frank Simms started M&B Cattle, which became USO when he brought George in. Frank then sold his half to George when he moved over the hill to manage Chama Land after Leo was indicted. George has owned USO since.
Trophy Ridge is a good outfit, you should have an enjoyable hunt.
Hello John, I am a Bowsite sponsor. I own and operate Bow and Arrow Adventures. If you would like some additional options to consider than let me know. I work with two different operations in New Mexico and both have a consistent record of producing shot opportunities on quality bulls for our clients. You can look at a couple of reviews on my operation in New Mexico's outfitter reports and also go back through the threads if you wish and look at Aussie in New Mexico Elk Hunt ( semi live ).
Best regards, Scott Alberda - Bow and Arrow Adventures
USO would be the last company I would ever call. I'd just as soon quit hunting before I gave them a dime.
They are very good at finding elk from the air. : ) I came across them once and their vehicle was blocking a main forest road so no one could get by. My buddy flattened their tires. I think they will do anything possible to get you an elk. It just depends on how ethical you are.
From the air.... that was a different lawsuit. lol Weasels!
I would recommend Mick Chapel. nmtrophyhunts.com
Frank Simms now has the lower ranch on Banded Peaks here in sw Colorado...George and USO Outfitters do have a reputation, and it seems that a lot of guys in NM and AZ really have a lot to say about them. They do lease some ranches in NM that at one time were great ranches, but over hunting and over killing these ranches really hurt the resident elk herds. The airplane scandal was funny. Seems USO goes out of their way for some clients!! Mick Chapel is a good guy, his guides at times leave lots to be desired. I don't know what your price range is, but looking into the Jicarilla Apache reservation might be a great option. You will find their prices very compatible with other outfitters in NM and Colorado. Plus, they do kill some very big bulls, and the guys that guide are elk killing machines...
Back in the day USO was a top notch outfit. We hunted all pvt property with no need to block roads or harass public land hunters. Top notch guides too. LOL
The George I knew back then wouldn't stand for the stuff going on that I read. The outfitting was always a business and doing things the right way was paramount.
Get a reputable guide in the unit you are wanting to hunt. I would stay away from USO, but that's me.
I hunted w/ USO in 2009 in NM for early Muzzleloader. The guides were excellent, all knew the unit well, and 3 of 4 of us tagged in 2 days. All hunting was above ethical, fair chase on public lands. The food was incredible and plenty of it. I could not have had a better experience.
There is a fellow on here who goes by Stoney, he has been guiding in New Mexico for quite a while. I would look him up!
If you have the money I'd look into those reservation hunts in NM and AZ.
Another NO vote for USO. They are widely hated across the Southwest.
"It [USO lawsuit] did no harm to NR hunters."
That's not really true. Arizona made several changes to their drawing system during that lawsuit to provide preference to residents over NR which remain today, such as the creation of a loyalty bonus point and the requirement for NRs to buy an expensive non-refundable hunting license in order to apply for big game hunts.
I once was scouting an area outside of flagstaff for an upcoming archery elk hunt. I went into town to get a hot lunch and on my way out I decided to take a road I had never been on before. It went through some cabins and it just so happens about 5-6 guys were out shooting bows at targets. I stopped to ask directions and where the road went. They were friendly enough, mostly in mid 20's or so. They told me they were guides for USO when they weren't doing the seasonal forest fire stuff. I asked them why they weren't out scouting for upcoming hunts. They told me they didn't have to because USO flys the unit just before season starts and tells them where all the elk concentrated.
If it were me, I wouldn't have anything to do with USO. Because of one mans greed he tried to change the rules for his benefit.
Somebody mentioned about NR's being discriminated against on federal land. That simply is not true. A NR can do anything a resident can do on federal land. However the wildlife on federal land belong to the state in which they reside. This is true in every state and has held up in court.
Discrimination is what Wyoming does to NR hunters in wilderness areas. But that is a different subject.
Wapiti Bob said;
"Back in the day USO was a top notch outfit. We hunted all pvt property with no need to block roads or harass public land hunters. Top notch guides too. LOL The George I knew back then wouldn't stand for the stuff going on that I read. The outfitting was always a business and doing things the right way was paramount."
And that is some of the funniest shiet I've ever read!
I lived the shenanigans in Unit9 NM on the borders of FLee's property for years, don't tell me Mr.Taulman was doing things the "right way".
Those jokers should have been banned from outfitting years ago, IMO.
Maybe take two minutes to research or actually read what was written?
They started on Floyd Lee the year after I left. We hunted the Brazos ranches and he had the Angle Fire stuff my last year, which was the 2nd year after incorporating. At that point in time everything was by the book. I was there and was part of it. What they did after that, I have no idea. That was 25 years ago......
If your looking few a NM Outfitter I would highly recommend Perry Hunsakers Timberline Outfitters.I've been hunting with them for 20 plus years.Perry is a bowhunter and knows what it takes to get it done.They consistently beat the national shot percentage and pride themselves on getting all there clients a realistic shot opportunity.
Maybe things have changed, but had bad experence with them . Would never use them again.
I had an archery elk tag in Arizona 11M several years back and ran into their camp. Their guide I talked to was a young 20-something year old kid from a different state that had never hunted AZ before. Drank, smoke, and swore like a sailor. He told me about the water hole they had killed several bulls over. I went and checked it out and saw where they had cut the fence, driven their ATV off-road, and hauled water in to the previously dried up tank. I honestly wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't talked to the guy and seen it myself. I'm pretty sure that hauling water is not illegal, but cutting fences and driving off of existing roads on National Forest to do it is. Maybe an isolated incident, but after seeing it first-hand, I would NEVER hunt with USO.
Sounds like things went to hell in a hand basket down there.
I was there elk hunting in NM when the air incident happened. I didn't know what was going on with the airplane flying overhead until the next day when the officers were questioning us hunters about what we had seen.
I think the air incident still goes on from what i hear.I think they just say they are flying for a hunt that starts in a few days, while they still have hunters in the field.
Saw a suspicious plane flying low over some key elk spots in Unit One (AZ) during the recent Sept hunt. No telling who was flying it, but they were most certainly using it for scouting. So, I believe it is still happening with some frequency.
Nothing wrong with scouting from a plane, done it myself. Problem comes if you radio the guy on the ground.
I agree bob. I just think that considering their past, it's hard for many to believe they are not passing on information with hunters on the ground.
I hunted with them in 2001 in the Gila. I had a good hunt and the Guide "WingWang" was awesome. It was my first out west hunt and I was beginning the points game so I used their service to start the process. Several years later they put me in for a unit in Arizona after I had asked for just points. I drew the unit and could not return the points. I was a bit pissed off, asked them to send me the tag which they did, and I have never used them since. I tagged out first day and spent the rest of the week chasing a bear. we ran into other hunters and they were yelling at the guides because they had seen a plane flying the day before and thought that they were scouting for me. I was just bear hunting. lol those hunters assumed incorrectly
All guides in AZ have been forewarned (2 letters) that scouting with aircraft is basically no longer possible with the new AZ Game Commission clarification of no flying for scouting during any open season. There is some kind of an open season going on all the time in all elk units starting from about Sept. 1 forward.
Partly due to George's law suit and other big shots in trouble with illegal flying infractions, now it is basically banned for everybody.
I talked to Dan Diamond, chief law enforcement officer for the Pinetop region AZ Game Dept. and he confirmed that by the way the law is written it will be illegal to fly and scout by airplane now , except in the off season like mid summer.
For a hunt in the Gila Wilderness, Stoney is your man!
USO did everything they could to commercialize hunting for the only reason of benefiting their pocketbook.. Their lawsuit was selfish and thank god it failed..
Thanks for the info stoney. If the "intent" of the flight is to "locate" game, then the flying activity can be regulated by the game Dept. and they have taken that step. I didn't know they had done that yet. Maybe not a bad idea for all the SW states to adopt something like that. Then again, is it really much different than 10 "friends" spread out over the whole unit with radios?
I will say IMHO radio communication to locate game by any means should be illegal. Now if someone has enough "friends" willing to locate elk afoot and go tell their friends in person git er done.
I recently hunted an allegedly great unit in a great SW elk state. Many years to draw the archery permit. Hunted for a long time and listened to the guides visit. It was very clear that the "big name" archery hunters and auction permit buyers are clearly not hunting "fair chase" by B&C definitions. Much use of radios, hazing, crowd observation etc. It was actually pitiful to listen to. I was shocked at some of the names as they are high profile bowhunters. Some real shady permit draw stuff going on as well. Incredible amount of wounding as well. It was all quite sickening to listen to for a couple of weeks. By the time it was over, I was glad to be out of there.
I'm watching Ridge reaper right now and the "team" radios are a singin'
I remember watching one of the first Realtree MONSTER BULLS videos and USO was guiding Bill Jordan and his partners. Doesn;t surprise me reading the above info now! Guess they (USO) got greedy when they started seeing $$$$$$ signs! ;-)
mcQueen didn't seem like a good fit?
What are you expecting in a hunt and how much is the budget?
Whatever you do stay away from any of the 3 DeLao brothers who are based out of Reserve. They are bad news.
If you want a wilderness hunt Stoney is your man!
Just off the subject but added above and then to clarify, it is illegal in 17 states to use a "radio" between hunters or others, to communicate the location or movement of big game or to directed an other hunter to big game during an open season.
Hard to enforce in some states, easier in others. And then, maybe hard to use/ prove as evidence in court for a conviction.
Copy and paste this link to read about another guys NMex outfitter/guide adventure.
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=500769
so I take it this was USO? man I feel bad for you for having to endure this. you showed more constraint than I would have. I probably woulda been outa there after day 2 hunting on my own.
th- No it was NOT USO. Author of link in jdee's post does mention outfitter. (Not trying to be a fan of USO, just want to make sure info is accurate)
Link details a nightmare story with outfitter in Gila. Just not USO. I won't get into outfitter bashing as I think they have a place. But for the most part, not for me.
He did finally say which outfitter it was. It is way down in the following Blog.
USO used to guide the Realtree group and Jeff Foxworthy here is SW Kansas. We can thank them for the influx of commercialization of the Kansas deer herd. Seems when Bill Jordan missed the Barb Wire buck it set the world on fire about like Spook Spann. There is a booner behind every tree. Seems to me that USO was run out of the Ashland/Coldwater area on a rail.
"Seems when Bill Jordan missed the Barb Wire buck..."
It's pronounced "bob wire buck". ;-)
The link I posted was about another NM outfitter not USO. I just wanted JohnMc to read it just for some info....
