Sitka Mountain Gear
Bad Blood
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Slippery Paw 18-Oct-14
Russell 18-Oct-14
Florida Mike 18-Oct-14
Charlie Rehor 18-Oct-14
bsbowhunter 18-Oct-14
Jack Harris 18-Oct-14
Bowsage 18-Oct-14
Bear Track 18-Oct-14
MGGC 18-Oct-14
walks with a gimp 18-Oct-14
SteveB 18-Oct-14
Fulldraw1972 18-Oct-14
drycreek 18-Oct-14
mdoughty 18-Oct-14
Hammer 18-Oct-14
x-man 18-Oct-14
Bou'bound 18-Oct-14
TurkeyBowMaster 18-Oct-14
gulfcoast 18-Oct-14
gulfcoast 18-Oct-14
Bear Track 18-Oct-14
Slippery Paw 18-Oct-14
JLS 18-Oct-14
cityhunter 18-Oct-14
TD 18-Oct-14
XMan 18-Oct-14
Surfbow 18-Oct-14
bsbowhunter 18-Oct-14
bsbowhunter 18-Oct-14
walks with a gimp 18-Oct-14
drycreek 18-Oct-14
hunt'n addict 18-Oct-14
Trial153 18-Oct-14
buckhammer 18-Oct-14
SDHNTR(home) 18-Oct-14
elkmtngear 18-Oct-14
Slippery Paw 19-Oct-14
Trial153 19-Oct-14
buc i 313 20-Oct-14
Z Barebow 20-Oct-14
milnrick 20-Oct-14
SteveB 20-Oct-14
tomt 22-Oct-14
SDHNTR(home) 22-Oct-14
joehunter8301 22-Oct-14
Sam S 23-Oct-14
Mad Trapper 23-Oct-14
flybyjohn 23-Oct-14
Russell 23-Oct-14
TurkeyBowMaster 23-Oct-14
Russell 23-Oct-14
Russell 23-Oct-14
Dampland 23-Oct-14
Tradbow_G 23-Jan-19
ohiohunter 23-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 23-Jan-19
walks with a gimp 23-Jan-19
Duke 23-Jan-19
Lee 23-Jan-19
12yards 24-Jan-19
ahunter76 24-Jan-19
GF 24-Jan-19
From: Slippery Paw
18-Oct-14
I posted a question on Bowsite about the G5 Montecs before the season. Because of the positive feedback I received, I switched to them this year. I shot my second doe of the season last night and I have to say I'm getting terrible blood trails.

Both deer traveled about 80 yards before expiring. If I would've been hunting in the thick stuff they would've been extremely difficult to trail. Both hits were thru the lungs. I'm not impressed.

From: Russell
18-Oct-14
Are they hair popping sharp? Complete pass through? Fat clogging wounds? High in lungs?

From: Florida Mike
18-Oct-14
Try Slic Tric magnums.

18-Oct-14
Nice shooting 2 for 2 and 80 yard recovery is terrific! With that kind of shot placement any sharp three blade should be fine! Continued success! C

From: bsbowhunter
18-Oct-14
Let me tell you about a little experiment I did between the G5 Montec and the Muzzy MX3 (that I always have and will use) I thought a couple of years ago it would be nice to use a broadhead that I could just keep resharpening like I use to do when I shot traditional, so since I shoot a lot of hogs every chance I get, I took both heads with me on the hunt.

On Saturday I shot a 130lb hog at 25 yards with the G5 right in the heart. I saw where he ran so I went over to point of impact and was surprised that there was no blood! The pig only went about 30 yards til he expired, but hardly any blood at all? The arrow passed thru and the hole was the exact size of the broadhead which is what I expected with a cut on impact design. After gutting, I confirmed a perfect heart shot.

The next day I shot another hog that could have been his brother, same size, same distance, but with my Muzzy MX3. He too, went about 30 yards, shot thru the heart. But...when I went to point of impact, blood! and lots of it all the way to the hog. The entrance and exit (especially the entrance) holes were much bigger than the broadhead.

My theory is (just my opinion) is that the front of the Muzzy is pushing the skin in before the blades touch therefore creating a larger entrance wound. I have shot LOTS of animals and have always been amazed and happy with the wound channel I get.

I know everyone has there favorite broadhead, and any sharp well placed arrow will do the job, but I just like the performance of my Muzzy's even after experimenting with other designs.

just my 2 cents

From: Jack Harris
18-Oct-14
That design of BH makes excellent blood provided the are extremely razor sharp. Same as VPA. Then it's a matter of shot placement.

From: Bowsage
18-Oct-14
Never heard of being critical of a broad head that has killed two deer in two shots......... Scratching my head on this post.........100% recovery rate......

From: Bear Track
18-Oct-14
I've read your post twice and with my near 50 years hunting with a bow, I'm not too sure what your concern is. 80 yards for a deer to run at warp speed after getting hit in the lungs takes about 4 seconds. In my opinion, death in 4 seconds is not only quick but humane. Some blood trails are scarce and some are thick and easy to follow. I would bet a few of the other grey beards on here will agree.

From: MGGC
18-Oct-14
How dead do you want those dead deer? sounds like the broadheads are doing there job in the killing dept. Every shot is gonna be different in the bloodtrail it leaves. There is no Magic Broadhead. Shot placement is everything! Woodsman skills must be learned and used at times to find those deer that just don't bleed well.

18-Oct-14
bsbowhunter, Years ago I hunted with a PSE broadhead that was like a Muzzy but it had a bullet shaped nose instead of the Trocar tip. It was advertised to stretch the skin before the blades cut to create a larger entrance wound, I probably still have a few. I've shot Muzzys for years and now shoot the MX3.

From: SteveB
18-Oct-14
Try a rage. You'll get better blood trails if you get a pass through (which isn't likely) and if no pass through get to do a lot more fun tracking :)

Just kidding folks.

Montec Strikers. Scary Sharp all the time.

From: Fulldraw1972
18-Oct-14
3 years ago I shot a buck with a montec head. Biggest blood trail I have ever followed. It looked like you took a gallon of blood and started throwing it on the ground. The deer probably went 80 to 100 yards. I don't think the deer had any blood in him when I gutted him. They do need to be sharp and shots through the heart for me typically don't bleed a lot for me.

To me it sounds like two successful hunts.

From: drycreek
18-Oct-14
I'm with some of you on the two shot-two dead deer wagon, but I'm with the OP on wanting a better blood trail. He never said the deer didn't die quickly enough. He said there wasn't much of a blood trail.. I hunt some thick stuff too, and a good blood trail equals found deer. I have a JRT that finds my deer and hogs.......if he is with me, which is not always. I never liked the Montec, but I never used them either. I use G5 Strikers and Wasp Hammers, and they mostly leave good blood trails. No broadhead leaves good blood trails 100% of the time. As someone else said, has to do with shot placement, and also whether you are in a tree or on the ground. Low exits leave better blood trails.

From: mdoughty
18-Oct-14
Sometimes if a broadhead is not shaving sharp they will push vanes out of the way,still get kill shots but not as much blood.Try running a elastic on the blades if it bends or slides so will veins.

From: Hammer
18-Oct-14
I don't think the dead is dead line works here. If you are getting crappy blood trails and worried that a critter might be lost in the thick stuff due to a hard tracking job and you feel it is the head design then possibly switch heads that way your confidence at the time of the shot does not fall off.

From: x-man
18-Oct-14
I'm just surprised that you got any positive feedback on them at all.

Seems as though there are only a small handful of guys who like them. They have a long history of being very soft and dull.

From: Bou'bound
18-Oct-14
Crappy soft dull head I shot one once killed a bear with it in 30 yards and threw the rest away

18-Oct-14
Small coc heads have good penetration qualities but the worst blood trails...doesn't matter how sharp they! Get yourself something at least 1.4 " in diameter and you will not be disappointed.

From: gulfcoast
18-Oct-14
Confidence in your equipment and in yourself is a huge part of this game. If you feel this way about your heads now, safest course of action is to retire them NOW and just move on.

Had the exact same problem with them years back. Moved on to something better suited to my confidence needs.

From: gulfcoast
18-Oct-14
A side note... I have 0 experience with the CS version of the Montec. Maybe this improved rigidity and sharpness? Anyone test these out in the field?

From: Bear Track
18-Oct-14
Just thinking here, long ago, new to the sport bowhunters dealt with the same issues, sparse blood trails and learned fantastic woodsmanship skills.....

From: Slippery Paw
18-Oct-14
Thanks everyone. The heads were right out of the package. I bought three packs. Used two broadheads to dial all of my arrows in with and just screwed the new ones on and spun them to check their alignment.

Both deer were shot high in the lungs. Yes they died very quickly and I was fortunate to see them both go down. One in the open woods and one in a bean field. Had I not it would of been a difficult tracking job for me. Maybe my woodsmanship skills suck but 80 yards in some of the areas I hunt is a looooong way with little to no blood. I'm going to buy something else and get them dialed in before I start buck hunting in November.

From: JLS
18-Oct-14
JMO, but a high lung shot is going to leave a poor blood trail regardless of the head used.

From: cityhunter
18-Oct-14
dull head !! Even with the famous slick trick s i have gotten piss poor blood trails with perfect hits . The key i have found is to replace blades every few days when hunting , they dull quick in quiver. Since i have been doin this my blood trails are awesome !!

From: TD
18-Oct-14
If you didn't sharpen them..... they aren't all that sharp out of the package. Not only that they are known for being hard to sharpen.... which doesn't make much sense because they are also known for not holding an edge.

Tough. Fly great, accurate. Poor edges.

The CS Montec OTOH is a very good head, in the same league as the snuffer ss and hellrazor.

That said..... many reasons for poor blood trails. Could be no major arteries were cut. Or bled out inside, you mentioned it was a high hit..... classic poor blood as the chest cavity has to fill before much leaks out. I've found heart shot animals sometimes don't leave much blood as there is no blood pressure, only gravity to drain it out of the body. Dead animals, but poor blood trails.

Dead deer. Congrats!

From: XMan
18-Oct-14
My brother and I used to use Montecs..... use to use.... they dull and bend easy and stink to sharpen. Not a head I would recommend after our experiences with them so many better heads out there IMO.

From: Surfbow
18-Oct-14
They are pretty dull out of the box, I spent some time on the ones I have and they have a nice edge now...

From: bsbowhunter
18-Oct-14

bsbowhunter's embedded Photo
bsbowhunter's embedded Photo
Now this is the one everyone should use! especially for thick skinned game. They call it the apple core broadhead. suppose to spin right thru and leave a big hole. One of my favorites in my BH collection.

From: bsbowhunter
18-Oct-14

bsbowhunter's embedded Photo
bsbowhunter's embedded Photo
here's another view

18-Oct-14
That looks like a Browning Serpentine head from about 40 years ago.

From: drycreek
18-Oct-14
I bet that's easy to sharpen........

18-Oct-14
I shot a few deer with them as well. Always had them very sharp. However, I never had a good blood trail. I since have switched to Grztricks and Vipertricks. I love the blood trails I get with them, and I don't think I will be switching any time soon.

From: Trial153
18-Oct-14
I am with the OP, I used them and the blood trails suck . They aren't sharp out of the box and after taking a edge they don't hold them. Easy solution ...switch to VPA, machined from tool steel, easy to take an edge and they hold it! I have had no issues with he blood trails from the VPA....

From: buckhammer
18-Oct-14
I still use Rocky MTN. fast flight and legend broadheads that were manufactured in the early 90's.

Its a shame they are no longer made. Best broadhead I have ever used.

Getting hard to find replacement blades for them

From: SDHNTR(home)
18-Oct-14
So you shot a dull Broadhead high in the lungs and were surprised at a lack of a blood Trail? I don't mean to be a jerk, but didn't you feel the head before shooting? They are not sharp from the package. They aren't supposed to be. No one piece head is. They are designed to be shot and practiced with first. Yes, all of them. That is the beauty of one piece heads. You can practice shoot the exact same head and arrow combo and know that it shoots well. Then just touch up and go hunting. Yes, there are other similar heads that are much easier to get sharp, like the VPA, but in this case I don't find much fault in the Broadhead. A few strokes on the stone and a couple inches lower with the hit and you would have had much different results.

From: elkmtngear
18-Oct-14
The G5 Montecs just aren't sharp enough right out of the box.

Get them to where you can shave the hair off your forearm, and see if the amount of blood doesn't improve. Just my 2 cents.

Best of Luck, Jeff

From: Slippery Paw
19-Oct-14
Of course I checked them. The heads are sharp right out of the package. As sharp as any other broadhead. Not the first two deer I've shot. I'm making the switch for my own piece of mind. Was only querying to see if anyone else had the same experience. As stated I'd only heard good things about them until this post.

From: Trial153
19-Oct-14
slippy for what it worth its been a common complaint about them. I attribute it to the metal being injection molded crap. Take a look at the VPA's i think you will like what you see.

From: buc i 313
20-Oct-14
I'm with Bear Track, on this one.

Same hit with the same type of broad head,

different deer, different blood trails.

Another "Gray Beard"

From: Z Barebow
20-Oct-14
High lung hits= tough blood trails, no matter which broadhead you use. You put a deer in top gear with a high hit, it takes some time for lung cavity to fill with blood before it comes out of arrow holes.

How far can you run while holding your breathe? Probably less than 80 yards. A deer? From your results, I would say around 80 yards.

From: milnrick
20-Oct-14
Here's another 'Gray Beard' take on the subject.

I've used several brands of broadheads over the years and as most IBEP Instructors has said something to the effect of "Any MODERN BROADHEAD will kill a game animal quickly, cleanly and humanely IF it's RAZOR SHARP and placed in the right spot at the right time" to their IBEP Classes.

They (we) quickly mention it's all about SHOT PLACEMENT.

Having said that, I think Slippery Paw gave the answer to his 'sparse blood trail' dilemma in his last post. Both animals were hit with HIGH LUNG. Unless I'm mistaken, the chest cavity would have to fill up before it begins to leak and leave a trail.

The deer and hogs I've hit 'high lung' have left a sparse blood trail for the first few yards and then shortly before expiring seem to spray blood everywhere.

I lowered my point of aim and noticed that blood trails became easier to follow.

For the record, I switched to Montec 100's about 10 years ago and don't plan on changing.

From: SteveB
20-Oct-14
My son just shot a mature doe last evening with the Montec CS sharp quartering to him and he placed the pin just inside the left shoulder and it went clear through and exited opposite low in abdomen. AMAZING devastation. The deer did not move from that spot and let's just say there was blood everywhere. I have a pic and wont post it :)

From: tomt
22-Oct-14
I have never gotten a good blood trail with high lung hits with any broadhead. In the situations that I remember, when field dressing, I found the lungs to be full of blood. Seems the lungs have to fill up before you start to get a blood trail.

From: SDHNTR(home)
22-Oct-14
"Of course I checked them. The heads are sharp right out of the package. As sharp as any other broadhead."

Sorry, but no chance.

22-Oct-14

joehunter8301's embedded Photo
joehunter8301's embedded Photo
I agree with sdhntr. This is why I shoot the vpa. I can get them super sharp an shoot the same head/arrow combo I practice with. Vpa is a far better head an holds its edge better. Here was my latest blood trail. You tell me if the results are satisfactory :-)

From: Sam S
23-Oct-14
I had the same problem I would get them as sharp as my snuffers and the snuffer would have a great blood trail and haedly any blood with the montec My brother had the same issue He went back to muzzy's and I went with a Rage

From: Mad Trapper
23-Oct-14
I agree with those who say that a high lung hit can often times leave a sparse blood trail. Having said that, I switched from Montecs because I didn't think that they were sharp enough. I now use Strikers with replaceable blades. Lou offered some good advice to replace the blades every few days as they tend to dull going in and out of the quiver. I have shot a lot of different fixed blade heads and the G5 broadheads hit where my field points hit out to long yardages. There are a lot of good broadheads out there. Find one that is sharp and flies well out of your set up.

From: flybyjohn
23-Oct-14

flybyjohn's embedded Photo
flybyjohn's embedded Photo
I agree with a very sharp broadhead, however shot placement probably has more to do with the OPs problem more than anything else. If an animal is hit mid body or higher through the lungs, most of the time the animal bolts at an alarming rate until it runs out of O2 and then colapses. Two things here, the animal has covered a lot of ground very quickly dropping the blood that escapes over a lot more ground, and all the bleeding the animals organs are doing (the lungs) is falling inside the chest cavity and filling it up. There is no way the cavity will fill up to the holes before it falls to the ground, just not enough time. I hit an elk mid body, pass through both lungs, it bolted for about 80 yards and then tumbled. It was fresh snow and the only blood that exited the animal came out like mists of windex. I could see the faint spray on the branches holding snow, but you had to look very closely to even see that.

Now if the animal was hit lower, and if the animal walked away or did not bolt, a lot more blood would pour out of the animal.

One other think to look at is the Montec is designed to be sharpened at about a 120 degree cutting angle. A fixed blade with razors inserted are sharpened at a much thinner angle. I would be like sharpening a spitting mall and an axe. If both were the same weight, the axe would cut better than the spitting mall. If you look at the picture attached, you will see how far the sharpening edge goes down on the tip vs the edge of the blade. Keep in mind the tip is thicker than the blade so if sharpened at the same angle it should actually show more sharpened edge than the blade but the oposite is true, showing that the blade is sharpened at a much sharper angle than the tip. The G5 would have the angle of the tip of this broadhead.

From: Russell
23-Oct-14
For AK moose last month, I used Magnus Snuffer SS (125 g) broadheads. Got them hair-popping sharp using wetstones and then stropping. Once finished, a good coat of Vaseline and in the quiver.

After three days of hunting, I inspected the first couple arrows and touched-up with a strop.

After nine days in the bush, most of the heads were still hair-popping sharp. One or two were still shaving sharp, but had lost a little bit of edge. (Maybe I didn’t do a good job at the beginning?).

For me, stropping is the key to achieving an extremely sharp edge and maintaining this edge.

23-Oct-14
There us a word for those who believe a 1 and 1/8th inch 3 blade head sharpened 2 blades at a time produces a super sharp , mega blood trail...it's called sucker...gullible.

You want to see a trail then sharpen a 1.5 inch snuffer one blade at a time...not the 60 degree angle that the 2 blade at a time creates but 20 degrees to the side for a total of 40.

You want to know why there is so much hype over the single bevel...it's because one side is sharpened to around a 20 degree bevel and the other is basically zero degrees for a total of maybe 22 at the most.

A Simmons can be modified to a single bevel and still cut an inch and a half. You want to see a blood trail look at what these 1 9/16 inch 4 blade monsters produce. Trust me, you will not have to have a walking heart shot to be impressed...a running high lung shot will produce a trail that can be followed by brail.

From: Russell
23-Oct-14

Russell 's embedded Photo
Russell 's embedded Photo
Watched this one fall last weekend. Walk along blood trail too.

From: Russell
23-Oct-14

From: Dampland
23-Oct-14

Dampland's embedded Photo
Dampland's embedded Photo
I believe in using what works for you and you have faith in.

That being said, I switched to Rage 2-blades about 8 years ago, and have only lost 1 deer that I made a good shot on.(and that one was found 2 days later, just 150 yards from the stand, but had doubled back, and we had lost the trail, until the crows helped us find her.) The other 20+ deer all died WITHIN SIGHT/HEARING of my stand.

Terrifc blood trails and numerous passthrus (see picture of typical entrance wound I get.)

I am beyond happy/satisfied with them.

From: Tradbow_G
23-Jan-19
I am surprised at all of you saying the Montecs are hard to sharpen. I just run them on a flat stone and then strip with leather and then put some Bore Butter on them and they are hair popping sharp. They are my wife’s broadhead and she has yet to shoot anything with them yet but I am assuming they should perform well on a full pass through shot.

From: ohiohunter
23-Jan-19
5yo thread and I still don’t like’m. Too many better options.

From: Ucsdryder
23-Jan-19
I call bullshit on anybody that says hair popping. The angle doesn’t allow hair popping. Maybe sharp, but they aren’t going to get as sharp as a 20 degree angle head. No clue why anybody would still use them.

23-Jan-19
I have some and shot one doe with one once that went about 200 yards. Through and through the rib cage mid height and I watched her run out across the picked bean field. near the end of her run she stopped and jumped and kicked and then down and kicking for a few. Blood in her nose and mouth and and some on her sides left me sure of a double lung hit. That was the last I used those heads as I had trouble getting them sharp. Went back to Muzzys and this year, as well as all other 30 years of using them had me seeing another 50 yard trot and flop after the shot. Get this though. I made a bad shot because I had called this buck past me while trying to stop him and then called him back to 14 yards and couldn't get him to stop so shot him while walking. Arrow hit high and back under the spine and post mortem showed his laced tenderloins that caused the super blood trail. The MX3 is a great and sharp head that I will stay with. I couldn't even find the arrow and I'm only shooting 55 pounds due to a shoulder injury.

From: Duke
23-Jan-19
If you hit a deer high in the lungs it is generally my experience that you’re not going to get good blood with any blade. -It’s a matter of physics. If the deer only made it 80 yards there was little time (probably a few seconds?) for that frontal cavity to get to the point of filling up to the point where you’d see good blood. If you’re looking for more blood shoot the deer lower or closer (with lower exit) and you’ll see the oil plug pulled.

From: Lee
23-Jan-19
Used to use them but swapped to VPA - hold an edge way better. Montecs were a pain to sharpen

From: 12yards
24-Jan-19
I've heard the Montec CS is better. Any truth to this? I used a NAP Hellrazor (similar head) on a small buck this year and it left a good blood trail. Not amazing but plenty adequate.

From: ahunter76
24-Jan-19

ahunter76's embedded Photo
ahunter76's embedded Photo
I'd say they did good. 80 yd recovery is pretty short for "some". Buckhammer, I've been using some model 3 blade Rocky Mountain since they came on the market in the mid 70s. I bought a "ton" b/4 they sold out & a ridicules low price from the son. Nothing better. I'm using the Ironhead currently. I have Premiers too & a few Razors yet. I keep tabs on ebay for blades but have several yet. I resharpen at times too. Heck, look at what we had in the 70s.

From: GF
24-Jan-19
FWIW, I know guy who used to shoot couple THOUSAND deer per year in the UK, and he fully expected an 80-yard dash from a deer that had had the op of its heart blown off with a .270 Win.

80 yards and down is ENTIRELY acceptable.

If you want more blood on the ground, shoot for a low exit.

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