Moultrie Products
This Is Why You Have Backup
Bears
Contributors to this thread:
DL 26-Nov-14
M.Pauls 26-Nov-14
Coyote 65 26-Nov-14
Bowboy 26-Nov-14
Bear Track 26-Nov-14
bowriter 26-Nov-14
Owl 26-Nov-14
trublucolo 26-Nov-14
BTM 27-Nov-14
IaHawkeye 27-Nov-14
TurkeyBowMaster 27-Nov-14
Jaquomo 27-Nov-14
Jaquomo 27-Nov-14
CJE 28-Nov-14
Ace of Spades 28-Nov-14
KB 28-Nov-14
BowsnLabs 28-Nov-14
Jaquomo 28-Nov-14
Bou'bound 28-Nov-14
Kevin Dill 29-Nov-14
TODDY 29-Nov-14
Bou'bound 29-Nov-14
writer 29-Nov-14
Ironbow 29-Nov-14
Kurt 29-Nov-14
Steve H. 29-Nov-14
TurkeyBowMaster 29-Nov-14
IdyllwildArcher 29-Nov-14
tobywon 29-Nov-14
elmer@laptop 29-Nov-14
writer 29-Nov-14
TD 29-Nov-14
Surfbow 01-Dec-14
shortstop 04-Dec-14
speedgoat 04-Dec-14
Medicinemann 08-Dec-14
cityhunter 08-Dec-14
redheadlvr 08-Dec-14
Medicinemann 08-Dec-14
Hammer 09-Dec-14
DL 09-Dec-14
Bowfreak 09-Dec-14
cityhunter 09-Dec-14
Genesis 09-Dec-14
Medicinemann 09-Dec-14
cityhunter 09-Dec-14
Medicinemann 09-Dec-14
doug 09-Dec-14
Genesis 09-Dec-14
Medicinemann 09-Dec-14
Hammer 09-Dec-14
Bowfreak 10-Dec-14
Fuzzy 11-Dec-14
DL 11-Dec-14
Sixby 11-Dec-14
Julius K 11-Dec-14
cityhunter 11-Dec-14
Sixby 13-Dec-14
brettpsu 13-Dec-14
Pig Doc 13-Dec-14
TurkeyBowMaster 13-Dec-14
Genesis 13-Dec-14
TD 13-Dec-14
Coyote 65 14-Dec-14
Wayne Helmick 14-Dec-14
Steve H. 14-Dec-14
Bou'bound 14-Dec-14
RogBow 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
TurkeyBowMaster 14-Dec-14
BLG 14-Dec-14
Bou'bound 14-Dec-14
cityhunter 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
cityhunter 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
cityhunter 14-Dec-14
DL 14-Dec-14
DL 14-Dec-14
Bou'bound 14-Dec-14
Pig Doc 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
Nesser 14-Dec-14
Nesser 14-Dec-14
cityhunter 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
Pig Doc 14-Dec-14
DC 14-Dec-14
Fulldraw1972 14-Dec-14
Bou'bound 14-Dec-14
Coyote 65 14-Dec-14
Coyote 65 14-Dec-14
TurkeyBowMaster 14-Dec-14
cityhunter 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
Medicinemann 14-Dec-14
Genesis 14-Dec-14
Hammer 14-Dec-14
Fulldraw1972 14-Dec-14
Mad Trapper 15-Dec-14
HANS1 15-Dec-14
Rock 15-Dec-14
Medicinemann 15-Dec-14
brettpsu 15-Dec-14
DGW 15-Dec-14
TurkeyBowMaster 15-Dec-14
Nesser 15-Dec-14
Genesis 15-Dec-14
LINK 15-Dec-14
DL 15-Dec-14
Ron Niziolek 15-Dec-14
TD 15-Dec-14
Genesis 15-Dec-14
Kurt 16-Dec-14
DL 16-Dec-14
Matt 16-Dec-14
Medicinemann 16-Dec-14
Steve H. 16-Dec-14
Genesis 16-Dec-14
TD 16-Dec-14
XMan 16-Dec-14
Chip T. 16-Dec-14
Bigpizzaman 16-Dec-14
Genesis 16-Dec-14
cityhunter 16-Dec-14
Genesis 16-Dec-14
HANS1 16-Dec-14
BLG 16-Dec-14
Surfbow 16-Dec-14
Hammer 16-Dec-14
Medicinemann 16-Dec-14
Medicinemann 16-Dec-14
Steve H. 16-Dec-14
cityhunter 18-Dec-14
Fuzzy 19-Dec-14
TurkeyBowMaster 19-Dec-14
Bou'bound 22-Nov-19
Destroyer350 22-Nov-19
Shiras42 22-Nov-19
From: DL
26-Nov-14

DL's Link
This has got to be an adrenaline rush that I wouldn't want to have at the end.

From: M.Pauls
26-Nov-14
Wow that video had my hands sweating!!

From: Coyote 65
26-Nov-14
Talk to me about shot placement. Just guessing too far back too high. Not a bear hunter, so in the words of Sgt Shultz. I know nothing.

Also it looked like he could have gotten off another shot before the bear charged?

Terry

From: Bowboy
26-Nov-14
Good thing he had a guid with good shooting ability.

From: Bear Track
26-Nov-14
Been there, done that.... it's a rush, but I hate it.

From: bowriter
26-Nov-14
Several years ago on a Sask. bear hunt, I folded my sweater up and put it on my stand behind my feet. I bear of abut 100# came in, climbed my tree, pushed one of my feet out of the way and took off with my sweater. I guess he figured it was going to get cold.

Never saw him or my sweater again. Good sweater, too.

From: Owl
26-Nov-14
It's always the small bears that want to shake hands 20' up the tree, bowriter.

From: trublucolo
26-Nov-14

trublucolo's Link

From: BTM
27-Nov-14
A buddy and I got bears with Luke in 2006. Great guide!

From: IaHawkeye
27-Nov-14
Takes big balls to even attempt a hunt like that. But, even though the bear probably died from the arrow, it was a GUN kill. I wouldn't post it as an archery kill. Either way, what a bear.

27-Nov-14
Ida put 7 arrows in that bear with a recurve in the time it took him to charge...at least 3, probably 4 with a compound. Archer looked really inexperience. That's the very reason to load your quiver ready for nock alignment, plus shoot a post style release. Fastest hookup. I might could have gotten off 5 with my setup because I am prepared for such action.

From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-14
TBM, do you get charged by a lot of turkeys? They sure can be fierce when provoked.

;-)

From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-14
And I agree with you - I'd have had more arrows into that bear too.

On my free-range red deer hunt in Australia, the guy filming me, also a super-accomplished bowhunter, was blown away that I shot my stag twice with a recurve. He stopped out there at 45 after the first arrow zipped through him at 25 and I already had another arrow on the string, so that one went through him too. The guy filming acted like it was a big deal. For me it's just automatic to get another arrow on the string and into the critter as quickly as possible. You never know.

From: CJE
28-Nov-14
Hahaha inexperienced, seriously? The guy that shot the bear has taken more Pope & Young animals with his recurve than most will ever even dream about. Got a good laugh out of your post....

28-Nov-14
I was raised under the understanding that if they're still moving I'm still shooting because nothing is a sure thing while hunting... Cool video!

From: KB
28-Nov-14
Hypothetical here... Given an initial well placed arrow in a situation such as this, and a quality chance at a quick follow up, is anyone sending arrow #2 at the head/spine area of the animal? Not looking for a head shot debate here. Just thinking in terms of avoiding the rifle follow up, and the chance arrow #2 to the body may have turned him towards the hunters even quicker.

From: BowsnLabs
28-Nov-14
I've not hunted Grizzly bear, but...regarding a follow-up shot(s)...my instincts would tell me that if I thought my first arrow was good, and considering my close proximity to such a dangerous and wounded animal...it would be wise not to draw unwanted attention to my position to potentially avoid a charge. I think this may have played a part in why the hunter didn't keep shooting - wouldn't that be inviting a charge?

Obviously it would have been better if the bear would have moved off to expire but he clearly had already pegged the hunters position.

From: Jaquomo
28-Nov-14
Rethinking it, none of us were there, and the camera angle was likely much different than the hunter's angle. He may not have had a follow up shot opportunity. Or believed he'd made a fatal shot and chose to let the broadhead do the job.

Easy to second guess from the couch.

From: Bou'bound
28-Nov-14
The first shit was very very low gut. A second arrow was needed

From: Kevin Dill
29-Nov-14
Easy to call it from the comfort of a monitor screen. Not being there and reading the hunter's thoughts makes it a touch difficult to know why he made the bad hit and what caused him to hold up on a following shot. Given the situation in the video, I would have likely held quiet believing the motion of a follow-up would have provoked a charge. The charge happened anyway, but a second arrow wasn't going to stop that.

The bear is simply huge. The hunter made a terrible shot. The guide put a bullet into the face of disaster.

100% of my admiration goes to the guide.

From: TODDY
29-Nov-14
"The first shit was very very low gut" Not intended but Bou' that was funny!

TODDY

From: Bou'bound
29-Nov-14
i saw that but figured it was an omen so i let it go.

From: writer
29-Nov-14
..and a lot of you guys are better quarterbacks than Tom Brady or Eli Manning, too.

If you aren't there, you can't say what you would or wouldn't have done. Who knows, maybe the movement of getting ready for another shot would have provoked the charge earlier.

TBM....you're full of shot. If you're so much better, go do it.

If you can't afford it, that's your own fault.

From: Ironbow
29-Nov-14
I have known the hunter for over 30 years, and he has killed a pile of big animals.

I don't normally kick back on this forum, but TBM you don't have a clue.

First off, the first shot went low. Not every shot we take is perfect, and considering the circumstances, being on his knees, a MONSTER of a bear right in front of you and another one watching from the beach, the adrenaline was pounding through his veins and he simply shot low. Could happen to anyone. I know two very well known bowhunters that blew broadside, 10 yard shots on bull moose. So, it happens.

The second shot was on target, but broadheads take a bit, especially when it is a #1400 plus pound bear. Did he have another shot? Maybe, maybe not. We didn't have his angle to see. The shot was good, so why take the risk of alerting the bear and having him charge?

He charged because he got downwind of them and figured out what bit him. That is why the gun was there, trained on the bear(s) the whole time. That to happens when hunting the big growlers.

TBM, maybe you should video one of your unkillable turkeys charging you. Dude, seriously, you need some help. Your ego is out of control. When you have accomplished HALF of what the bowhunter in the video has done, then you might be able to offer an opinion.

From: Kurt
29-Nov-14
You don't want to be attracting attention to your position when you have shot (or missed) a big bear (grizzly, polar, brown). My experience is based on 60 days of hunting grizzlies in BC over five years with a very experienced outfitter. Brian always coached me to freeze after the shot, which worked out quite well for us.

Last spring we finally got into the right spot after watching a nice boar and a sow on a slide for over 5 hours. I arrowed the boar at 13 yards. He instantly spun a 360 biting at the fletch then made three quick bounds and went past us at five feet, disappearing into the old growth rain forest below us! This took about 2 seconds maximum. During this time both Brian and I knew the boar never made eye contact with us. Had I been fumbling for an arrow and he saw us, the outcome could have been poor for us. He ran 120 yards before expiring. I held back slightly on the shot to account for his incessant digging as I was afraid of hitting the shoulder/leg bone. We also had to go contend with the sow at 15 yards right after the shot as she was wondering what the heck happened to her boy friend and why he had left in such a rush! Luckily she hadn't followed him directly, nor did she challenge us when we spooked her off the slide. Such is the excitement if bowhunting big bears! It took two days for our adrenalin levels to subside!

As per a big bear skull.....there is a heck of a lot of meat and reinforced bone around their brain that is not much larger than a decent size navel orange, based on my grizzly skull. Good luck trying to do any damage to the brain with an arrow in event of a charge. A big rifle is the correct weapon at that point.

From: Steve H.
29-Nov-14
The correct answer is, and YES, there is a correct answer in this instance, shoot and don't move a muscle.

Oh and yes, I have been under twenty many times and as close as twelve feet once from coastal browns. Have also been on the big bore where lead was administered at ten yards.

I just wonder what the hell the guide was thinking fooking around with a rangefinder at that distance?? Seriously?

29-Nov-14
Shoot him good and don't move...bad and you better shoot again. I saw lots of opportunities to reload and shoot undetected. O can't say it was the most pathedic shooting I have ever seen but it was close. Scratch him off my hero list!!

29-Nov-14
"..and a lot of you guys are better quarterbacks than...Eli Manning, too."

This statement is 100% true.

From: tobywon
29-Nov-14
Amazing how quick that bear reacted once it got downwind and caught their scent.

From: elmer@laptop
29-Nov-14
I would need a long shower and a big can of antibacterial spray to clean up the mess I would have in my pants after that encounter.

From: writer
29-Nov-14
" Scratch him off my hero list!!"

Your hero list is already jammed full, with yourself, anyway.

From: TD
29-Nov-14
That bear was pizzed, didn't know what exactly happened but was hurt and looking to hurt something, just didn't know were to look for it.

He did get the second shot off, but first, folks don't have the shooters angle. Secondly the follow up shot looked good to me.... I'd think a great time to make yourself real small and let the blades do their work...

Took it a split second when it cut their wind line. I'd have to guess the guys saying don't move a muscle were on to something.....

Geez TBM... take it easy on him, shot wasn't off that much.....good grief, you'd think he hit an elk in the antlers or something....

From: Surfbow
01-Dec-14
"O can't say it was the most pathedic shooting I have ever seen but it was close."

Correct TBM, you secured that title on your elk hunt...

From: shortstop
04-Dec-14
Just thought I'd throw this out there..........are you guys who are criticizing TBM all liberals? That's ususally who can't see the humor in these type of situations. RE: bear video, I'm not tough enough to go after those that would just as soon eat ya! Merry Christmas all!

From: speedgoat
04-Dec-14
I would love to have an opportunity like that one!

From: Medicinemann
08-Dec-14
Ned,

This is my first try at this.....but hopefully, this will show the link....

http://cdn.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Intense-Kodiak-Bear-Charge-in-Alaska-620x330.jpg

From: cityhunter
08-Dec-14
like i said most guys cant shoot for chit !! On my Ak grizz hunt a bow hunter wounded a Grizzly bear at 23 yrds !! a Perfect easy chip shot !!! Archer hit bear in neck /brisket only problem i was in bears way at less then 15 yards when the bear ran and stopped . Big coastal bear starring at me wounded no weapon on me no backup , what a cluster f that was lucky we all came out alive even the bear lol

They should make this hunter hunt alone no backup LOL

From: redheadlvr
08-Dec-14
Arrow too light and probably a mechanical head. Shot was too noisy.

From: Medicinemann
08-Dec-14
Redheadlvr,

You are mistaken.....per JSW's own comments.....posted on another thread.....

"I was shooting a Hoyt Vectrix set at 70#. Cabelas Carbon arrows and a Muzzy 125 grain 4 blade. Weight 475 grains."

From: Hammer
09-Dec-14
TBM must be joking because no one can be that daft!

From: DL
09-Dec-14

DL's Link
See if this works Mediceman

From: Bowfreak
09-Dec-14
I am not sure why time is even wasted responding to the utterly absurd posts in this thread. Most of the people giving the dissenting commentary don't have the stones, ability or drive to hunt a giant predator with a bow.

I am not sure what they are more full of....BS or themselves?

From: cityhunter
09-Dec-14
Bowfreak a video like this can only harm bow hunters future in AK ! It shows how easily a Big Bear can be wounded with archery gear under 30 yards.

From: Genesis
09-Dec-14
Louis,it proved the opposite to me.The hunter was able to have a miscue (like all hunters do) and still get a fatal arrow in the bear due to the quiet nature of a bow........Kodiak has a wound poilcy regardless of weapon used so any bear taking a hit is your bear and you cannot pursue another one that season.

So nobody is moving on to another bear........wound equality levels the politics of archery vs gun

From: Medicinemann
09-Dec-14
Lou,

I have bowhunted brown bear five times. Two of my guides have had gun hunters wound brown bears at archery close bears.....one was in the foot!!

Genesis X 2

JSW,

Your video reminded me of the Fred Bear video where the cameraman drops the camera after the shot and takes quite a while to regain his composure, and pick up the camera and continue filming..... your videographer recovered much faster!!!

From: cityhunter
09-Dec-14
Steve u see it your way i see a gut shot bear almost maul two guys .If first shot was in the money fat bear would have died on the whale ! How big is a kill zone on a 1400.

Jake u forget how lucky i was in AK when a bowhunter blew a chip shot like this , sending a wounded bear in my direction , eye to eye his nose in the air mere yards . Except i had no weapon no guide with a backup !!! only luck on my side !! That could have easily been my last hunt all due to a horrible shot .

From: Medicinemann
09-Dec-14
Lou,

For every bowhunting snafu that you can recite, there is a gun snafu to match it, if not outnumber it, because more guys gunhunt them than bowhunt them.....

...and if someone is worried about a wounded bear, I submit that they could care less about the weapon of choice...it is a wounded animal regardless...

I actually doubt if many people even have enough knowledge about bruin anatomy to know what a lethal shot is compared to a "wounding" shot....and regarding your incident in Alaska, that situation should never have occurred....I agree....but even a well placed arrow wouldn't necessarily have dropped that animal before he could have reached you....because as we both know, bullets kill by shock....arrows kill by hemorrhage....which usually takes longer. You have the advantage of having been there, though....I was not.

From: doug
09-Dec-14
if you can't shoot any better than that,,,,,,,,,, I mean that's the broad side of the barn with a compound.

From: Genesis
09-Dec-14
Louis,who is trying to make a living gut shooting Brown Bears?I've got a very close friend in AK who guided Brown bears for 10 years and he had some horror stories with the smoke pole guys........I arrowed two with him.

I saw a BOWHUNTER wait patiently for two quality shot opportunies.I wasn't surprised because you,I and most guys on this thread would have waited for those exact opportunities.If you want to argue that you would never miss those shots that's another thing but the hunter did everything he possibly could do.Personally I always carried a pistol to discharge if a fatally wounded bear squats on me and I want to try to scare him off.

A buddy from Bowsite shot a brown bear that was fatally wounded and squatted and had to be dispatched with a gun.It happens and it just makes me think a pistol (for noise) is an advantageHaving the guide shoot a warning shot makes less sense in case his gun jams.

That video shows a bowhunter with faith and fortitude to finish what started with a less than perfect scenario.......it was almost a perfect ending instead it ended a more than perfect ending!

From: Medicinemann
09-Dec-14
Doug,

Let's keep things in perspective.....

Ever get the shakes before or after shooting a whitetail deer?

How many 1,417 pound Brown bears have you shot at? I didn't see any trophy photos posted for you....

JSW didn't miss the barn....er.....bear. He simply made a less than desirable first shot. However, he kept his head in the game, and made a good second shot.

From: Hammer
09-Dec-14
Haven't been bear hunting yet. But...... give the guy a break. He will never forget that one that's for sure. Will make for great camp stories in the future.

I would have shat myself. Probably would have peaked and pulled my shot too. Hell I might have missed. The adrenalin being so close to such a huge and deadly animal with a slow kill weapon has to be over the top intense. Now I wanna go try it....W/O the charge of course. lol.....

That vid to me proves even good shots and experienced hunters can sometimes put a poor shot on game at anytime or from time to time regardless of how great they are. We all do it. Just glad he got it and no one got mauled or killed.

Very cool video though. I would have been screaming and running like Sam Witwikki in the transformers movies as soon as that bear started to charge. lol...

From: Bowfreak
10-Dec-14
Lou,

Making a less than perfect shot is reality in any kind of hunting situation. We have all blown shots. Even if JSW only had shot the second arrow, which we all agree was a good killing shot, there is still nothing that keeps a 1,400 animal from trying to kill you. Maybe he runs off or maybe he charges exactly like he did in this video.

The possibility of having an animal eat you is what some people thrive on when hunting dangerous game. It doesn't really matter if a rifle or a bow is used....when hunting dangerous game the predator prey relationship can easily turn.

I have no dangerous game experience and personally am not really interested in hunting those animals. We are all wired different but at this time in my life I don't have any desire to hunt that type of game but I respect those that do.

From: Fuzzy
11-Dec-14
LOL...It's kinda like the way TBM sometimes charges a thread and I hafta put it down fast to keep from getting my brain mauled!

From: DL
11-Dec-14
I've had what I felt were slam dunk shots at elk that were total misses do to external factors. One was either the string hitting my jacket or a brush. We don't know for sure what happened.

From: Sixby
11-Dec-14
I just wonder what the hell the guide was thinking fooking around with a rangefinder at that distance?? Seriously? That rangefinder would have been on the ground if I was the backup.

x2

God bless,Steve

From: Julius K
11-Dec-14
Lou, did you end up taking a bear on your trip? Sounds like an adventure... Did you post the story?

Julius

From: cityhunter
11-Dec-14
I guess he plays a lot of Golf at PY conventions !

From: Sixby
13-Dec-14
The fooking was a typo. The word was fooling.

God bless, Steve

From: brettpsu
13-Dec-14
Lou, not being a smart arse...but why did you not have any weapon on you while hunting bears?

From: Pig Doc
13-Dec-14
"Steve u see it your way i see a gut shot bear almost maul two guys .If first shot was in the money fat bear would have died on the whale ! How big is a kill zone on a 1400."

That's the way I saw it too. Could I make that shot? Maybe. Second shot was a gut shot. I would not have posed with that bear with a bow in my hand.

13-Dec-14
I didn't believe the explanation the hunter gave in the account of what he hit. I don't think he opened up the bear to see what he hit. That's the feeling I got. Until you get grimy with it and do autopsies on game you will never be a shot placement expert.. you'll be just guessing.

From: Genesis
13-Dec-14
"That's the way I saw it too"

Nobody can't possibly see anything but a gutshot on the first shot...If you've bowhunted you've gutshot something

From: TD
13-Dec-14

TD's embedded Photo
TD's embedded Photo
Second shot was money. Bear vitals aren't where deer vitals are and a person might notice you're not sitting safe and sound up in some tree. Ground level, eye to eye, with grass and crap in between.

I have a hunting partner that only sees things from his prospective. NEVER dawns on him you have a different angle than he has. And it's been like that for years and years. Whispering "shoot him, shooooot him!" while I'm trying to whisper back I have no shot. If he sees a shot... a shot has to be there....

Hard to say.... the first shot was off, but not by a bunch, not as much as some think. I could see it catching a bit of lung, maybe liver as well as gut. If that bear turns away, walks off..... give it some time it's dead IMO. But it didn't....

From the studies and annals of Woody Sanford.... may Pat have mercy on his soul....

From: Coyote 65
14-Dec-14
Where does one aim for on a charging bear?

Terry

14-Dec-14
This one would aim at the charging part.

From: Steve H.
14-Dec-14
My use of the misspelled word 'fooking' wasn't supposed to represent 'fooling'... F#@%ing....

From: Bou'bound
14-Dec-14
People are funny. That's the best part of this site just having that reinforced so often. The funniest one's are the one's that don't even realize it either. This stuff is priceless.........

From: RogBow
14-Dec-14
What a mess

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
It would be interesting to see how many that have offered an opinion on this thread, have actually been on a brown bear bowhunt......

14-Dec-14
I havnt...but I've killed 2 black. Generally speaking, if you are good at operating a piece of heavy equipment, you WILL be good at operating other pieces if heavy equipment. If you are good at knee reconstructive surgery, you are probably better at elbow reconstructive surgery than a heavy equipment operator. Just because some if these guys can't fork over 12 grand to kill a rug don't mean the can't give a proper analysis of what they saw.

From: BLG
14-Dec-14
TBM, If the brochure you have for a guided brown bear hunt says 12k, better check the date :)

From: Bou'bound
14-Dec-14
12k for the first four days of the 10 day hunt

From: cityhunter
14-Dec-14
Steve please tells us your outfitter who takes bowhunters I spoke to some top bear guides in AK and many dont want to be bothered with bow guys !!

Yes we all make bad shots ! But really no reason to run with it and make it headlines for the world to see

This video can only damage bow hunting !!I bet my last dollar if first shot was money that fat bear would have died on the carcass !!!

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
"I havnt...but I've killed 2 black. Generally speaking, if you are good at operating a piece of heavy equipment, you WILL be good at operating other pieces if heavy equipment. If you are good at knee reconstructive surgery, you are probably better at elbow reconstructive surgery than a heavy equipment operator. Just because some if these guys can't fork over 12 grand to kill a rug don't mean the can't give a proper analysis of what they saw."

It's interesting that you don't share that very same perspective on Alabama turkeys versus turkeys from anywhere else.....

It's also interesting that you chose to get defensive....I merely posed a question inquiring about how many people had hunted for brown bear.....

From: cityhunter
14-Dec-14
I talk to many on the fence about bow hunting and hunting in general ! when i tell them bears can be killed with archery gear ,, there first remark is how many arrows does it take . One cannot blame them for there lack of knowledge on how effective a arrow placed in Vitals can and will be on bears !!

In my years of bow hunting it seems once a critter is wounded/ bad shot , it can seem impossible to put down with a second shot, even if second shot is well placed.

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
Lou,

That is true....some people really underestimate the power of adrenaline!!

From: cityhunter
14-Dec-14
Brettpsu it was a guided hunt in AK 2009 we were walking to camp . Even if i was armed!!! archer and the two guides were in direct line of fire behind bear ! I did hear archers second arrow slice thru the grass , complete miss but archer blew a 23 yrd shot so how can he make a 50 yrd !I then heard gun fire i figured bear was dead due to guides gun but Great guides only had a pistol on them and was shooting at a wounded grizz over 50 yards with a 357 .I only wish i had my video running to show u all what a 3 ring circus they all run !! it even gets better . Eric the guide was useless at best he was next too hunter saw it a mere 23 yards Eric said hunter smoked the bear hahah i saw shot and reaction of bear , it was brisket hit or neck . Eric was ready to track without looking for arrow . Arrow was found after i said lets look for it . Arrow had very little blood on it . I then told Eric i told u that bear is not hit bad neck maybe brisket They looked for hours no bear was ever found . After a few days hunter was allowed to continue to hunt !

From: DL
14-Dec-14
Coyote 65: Where does one aim for on a charging bear? Terry.

The guide and then run.

From: DL
14-Dec-14

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
This is pretty explanatory about brain location.

From: Bou'bound
14-Dec-14
We need one of those diagrams for some bowsiters

From: Pig Doc
14-Dec-14
"It would be interesting to see how many that have offered an opinion on this thread, have actually been on a brown bear bowhunt......"

No disrespect, but do you have an opinion on politics? Ever run for or hold office? Do you have an opinion on religion? Ever been a preacher?

We all have opinions on things we have never done. I have never hunted brown bears but have successfully hunted blacks for many years, including taking a 19 6/16 DIY public land.

In the video, the first shot was not even close. The second was not a killing shot. Look at the picture of the dead bear with the guts pressing up into the entry wound. Way too far back and low.

I'm not taking shots at the hunter. Sounds like he is a very successful bow hunter. I agree with city that posting that video is nothing to be proud of. Also, as I stated previously, there is no way I would pose for a photo with that bear when it was clearly killed by the guide with a gun. That's my opinion, and I have the same right as anyone on here to state it.

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
Pig doc,

No disrespect intended here either.....but while 300+ million people may have an opinion on US politics or religion, the vast majority of them have not run for office, or studied theology. Therefore, they cannot offer the insight of someone that has. I am referring to that insight as it applies to brown bear bow hunting.

From: Nesser
14-Dec-14
Its a crazy video...I certainly have a bunch of respect for the guide in staying cool and putting an end to a dicey situation.

From: Nesser
14-Dec-14
Has anyone on here spot and stalk hunted Browns with a bow and without firearm backup? Balls of iron if so...

From: cityhunter
14-Dec-14
Bob killed a grizz up there with no gun power to back him .. with a frontal bow shot !!

Ive been around AK bears and grizzly bears in the lower 48 ,, Them big fat AK bears are timid compared to the small Grizzly of WY just down right full of attitude towards humans ..

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
Nesser,

If you aren't an Alaskan resident, I don't believe that you can hunt brown bear without a gun backup.

From: Pig Doc
14-Dec-14
So are are you suggesting only people that have hunted brown bears should post on this thread or that those who have not do not have a valid opinion? The video speaks for itself. The guy made two bad shots. It happens, but I don't understand defending it just because the guy is a big shot in P&Y. The video reflects poorly on bow hunters.

From: DC
14-Dec-14

DC's Link
Not exactly a bear but fun to watch.

From: Fulldraw1972
14-Dec-14
Pig Doc, maybe you should check out the archers thread on Bowsite. I think you would have a totally different opinion. Because per the archer the second shot was a very good shot. Its funny how all these opinions pop up after watching the video but yet fail to read the thread by the archer in the video.

From: Bou'bound
14-Dec-14
You have to have a guide. He does not have to carry a firearm by law

From: Coyote 65
14-Dec-14
Thanks for info on the aiming point on a charging bear. Now the pig video. I think some of the participants are candidates for the Darwin awards.

Terry

From: Coyote 65
14-Dec-14
Boubound If I were the client I would prefer he have a howitzer.

Terry

14-Dec-14
George Mann used 000 buckshot in a 870 pump for backup when he grizz hunted. He said that would stop anything at close range.

From: cityhunter
14-Dec-14
TBM 12 gauge is deadly at close range but I load a slug first shot then 00buck for the others ! I wouldnt trust buckshot past 10 yards on pissed off critters .

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
Pig doc,

Let's try a different tack.......Why do you believe that the second shot is not lethal?

From: Medicinemann
14-Dec-14
double post

From: Genesis
14-Dec-14
Buckshot????? Nope,you need deep penetration to STOP a bear.CNS breech with a solid bullet.Buckshot is better than tickling with a feather though.

Second shot was $$$$$$$ .The bear was on the clock unfortunately he winded them or saw them move or both in his last minute of living

From: Hammer
14-Dec-14
I have never hunted Bear. The hope is to go in 15' but with that I think opinion is just fine on things like this even if a guy has not hunted Bears

"I agree with city that posting that video is nothing to be proud of."

I would be proud. Even with an imperfect shot on the 1st and a better shot on the 2nd the bear would still probably have died in relatively short order had it not charged. What's not to be proud of? They got the bear. I would imagine the odds of this event being repeated very often are very slim but I am uncertain on that.

" Also, as I stated previously, there is no way I would pose for a photo with that bear when it was clearly killed by the guide with a gun."

I would think the bear would have died after it killed all 3 of them so the point is moot and if you die then certainly that's nothing to be proud of. lol

From: Fulldraw1972
14-Dec-14
Why not pose for a picture with the bear? Per the archer in the video the arrows would have killed the bear if they had enough time to work. Let's not forget. Its his tag that has to go on the bear per Alaskan law.

From: Mad Trapper
15-Dec-14
A 10' brown bear is not a black bear or an elk or a bison or a turkey, etc. Until you are under 20 yards from one of these bears with stick and string in your hand, you don't know how you are going to react. PERIOD. Anything else is mere bluster on your part. You may think you know how you will react, but you won't know until you are put in that position.

From: HANS1
15-Dec-14
Great video and great action on behalf of the guide holding off shooting as long as he did . Did anyone say what the shot distance was ? It has been over 10 years since I let my Registered Guides license expire but did a lot of coastal bear hunting back then. The 2nd shot didn't look perfect but is hard to see from that angle.another thing that made that dicey is the Bears only route to escape was to go around either side of the hunters that was a big part of the problem. Of the 25 I took while guiding hunters only 2 were bow kills one was perfect shot with the bear only making it 200 yards in the river and dying in sight. The other was a perfect shot but ended like the video at 9 feet but the bear wasn't near that big.thanks for posting this brings back a lot of memorys.

From: Rock
15-Dec-14
Mad Trapper X2

Got to love all these Bowsite experts. NONE of us were there to witness this first hand so none of us know what was really hit by the 2 arrows. Nor does the video have the same angle as the shooter which makes the shots look different than they really were. You can only see part of the Bear on the first shot so that messes up you perspective on where the arrow hits.

The picture someone mentioned claiming it showed gut plugging the arrow hole is not guts, it is fat. If you have ever shot a bear that is really fat you would know what it looks like. Gut would have been pushing out more with some of them hanging out of the hole.

From: Medicinemann
15-Dec-14
HANS1,

If you visit the other thread pertaining to this hunt, you can get a better feel for shot locations.

From: brettpsu
15-Dec-14
City, Wow that sounds like a quality outfitter! They're going to get someone killed.

From: DGW
15-Dec-14
Yes experts in their own minds. The facts are available by the hunter but they are not interested in the facts. The one stated the gut which was fat is where the second arrow entered when in fact that is the exit from the first arrow.

15-Dec-14
The guy said the bear was about to go down before he charged. I dint see why they didn't give ground so the bear would likely have collapsed before getting to them. Better yet just put up a fight for a while until the bear died. A dying bear can't do much damage. I question whether they were sure of the hit or just didn't know how quick a good arrow can kill. 10 seconds is about all the time they got with a good hit.

From: Nesser
15-Dec-14
1400 lb bear fired up on adrenaline would make a mess of 3 dudes in seconds I'm pretty sure.

From: Genesis
15-Dec-14
Buckshot for backup and "giving ground" will be the new assisted suicide for the outdoorsman...

From: LINK
15-Dec-14
I've never hunted brown bears but I did stay at a Holiday Inn one time. When I did I learned that there's a guy posting above that is a jack wagon.

From: DL
15-Dec-14
Years ago I read about a bowhunter shooting at that time I believe the Brown Bear record. He was wading in a creek when he heard the bear coming down the creek towards him. He shot him at under 15 yds. He shot him and never moved. The bear turned and stated at him which I can only imagine felt like an hour. Then the bear turned and took off. It had to be a short changing time after that. Had he moved a muscle it might have been over quick.

From: Ron Niziolek
15-Dec-14
Mad Trapper X3.

From: TD
15-Dec-14

TD's embedded Photo
TD's embedded Photo
Researched back up guns for big bears quite a bit not long ago. Close range open sight stuff. Bolt actions were essentially single shots inside 50 yards I was told. Shooting at a 1000+ lb animal that's faster than a racehorse in a sprint.

Shotguns with slugs (hard cast such as Dixie, etc) and heavy buckshot (Dixie makes a .600 3 ball hard cast too) were considered pretty good as you could get at least a couple rounds off close range. A good many AK residents I talked to rely on those as well.

The perfect medicine in my mind would be a big double rifle, the classic British elephant gun. So I researched those....Ouch. Big money. One company makes a 45/70 double gun called the Kodiak for under $6000. That's about as cheap as they get for decent double. I read big bear guides on several forums that really really wanted a synthetic stock stainless double gun in .375 or bigger for $2000 or under, one guy said he'd buy two of em right off. But I guess they just don't exist. Word was Ruger was working on a kind of "Number 2" working man's heavy double at one time but never made it into production. Maybe it was the name....

One AK guy had a custom Butch Searcy 24" stainless steel 470 nitro double that's a beauty. But likely costs more than most new 4x4 trucks would. I think his standard double gun is around $20,000. No longer makes the stainless model? Probably along the lines of what they were calling a "Gun Vault Queen".... but for those of us who are tool whores... sure is beautiful.

Which also kinda explains why the marlin 45/70 lever gun is pretty popular (stainless model seems to be made for wet AK) .... a good bit of pop with good bullets available and a pretty fast handling quick repeater.

Anyway, not a total thread hijacking, had to do with using backup guns on big bears such as in this case.....

Carry on with the regularly scheduled sniping.... I'm thinking maybe he should have tried grinning the bar down.... like they do in Alabama....

From: Genesis
15-Dec-14
TD,Bernneke (sic) slugs are a better option but solid cast bullets (brass even better) from high powered rifles win the day from a guide's rifle..45/70 pushing 400 gr brass for backup would adequate

Alot of really good loads/rifles out their now to give the deepest penetration to the CNS or heavy bone....buckshot is better than #6..:)

I'll digress

From: Kurt
16-Dec-14
By the way the bear went down, Luke's .375 Improved with Barnes bullets looked perfect, yet many are offering up other options:

1) Obviously Luke (the guide) does this for a living 2) Video evidence supports his choice as a good one 3) I wouldn't want to experiment with potentially inferior penetrating round ball projectiles as a backup to stop wounded brown bears but those who would, have at it. Might make a good read if you live to write about it.

From: DL
16-Dec-14

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
This'll slow him down. .700 nitro express 1000grains of hurt.

From: Matt
16-Dec-14

Matt's Link
It is amazing the attention uninformed opinions command on this site.

A decade or so ago we were stuck in Anchorage waiting to get to Kodiak, and got to talking to a long-time brown bear guide. The thing he reinforced is that brown bears are not black bears, and folks who expect them to act similarly and (more important) die similarly are terribly misguided.

When I read the comment above about giving ground or fighting the bear because it couldn't do much damage, I immediately thought of this scene from the critically acclaimed cinematic masterpiece "Billy Madison".

From: Medicinemann
16-Dec-14
Welcome back, Matt....been a long time, dude!!

From: Steve H.
16-Dec-14

Steve H.'s embedded Photo
Steve H.'s embedded Photo
I have bowhunted browns probably ten times or so, been very close many times, killed one albeit fairly small. Also had to bring one large 15 year old boar down post arrow strike for a buddy. First shot with .375 H&H at nine yards, turned him and I administered two more in rapid succession.

A bolt gun is too awkward for my normal mode of operandi, going solo. I 'discovered' my new backup gun. Adequate power, heavy bullet capable, lots of fast shots, portable, side carryable. What is it? Drum roll, a .458 SOCOM in an evil black rifle. Nine rounds in rapid succession of 300-500 grains each and with a carry handle receiver I can have it hang at my side for quick draw access.

So far I have blood trailed one brown for a buddy but it wasn't going far.

From: Genesis
16-Dec-14
My guide used a .375 H&H Bolt on my first hunt and Winchester .405 lever action on second hunt.....

From: TD
16-Dec-14
Matt.... he's always been there... when you see a rainbow, wish on a falling star...smell a scent on the breeze... no not that scent, that one is likely Mountain House chili mac... heheheheh...

All it took was the right bait.....er, turkey, whatever...

WRT backup, (firearms, not computer).... my only interest in a big bear firearm would be backing up a bowhunter, fast backup, close range as in a charge. Exactly this situation.

No interest at all in using it to take game, any game. None. The question in my toolish mind is what is the very best tool to have in your hands in that situation?

The guide and his equipment performed flawlessly. But I'm not sure he only guides bow hunters, (or what bowhunters might go to the rifle) exactly what tools are at his disposal.... and it's always an advantage to use something you are soooo familiar with it's like a part of you.

I inherited a mauser action 375 H&H I've shot a few times but never hunted with. The favorite rifle I have ever owned is a pre 64 mod 70 .338, killed literally tons of stuff with it, shot many hundreds if not thousand of rounds through it. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything in NA with it, maybe anything on earth. But both are scoped bolt actions. Both would work..... Neither would be what I would choose for exactly that situation... if I had a choice.

I was just typing out loud about something I'd done a bit of research on for some time, (as a few very experienced big bear bowhunters here can attest to me bugging them about, Steve H being one of several). As stated, the only use, the sole purpose would be personal protection against big bears, in close range critical situations while bowhunting. ZERO interest in hunting anything with it. None.

Hey, maybe some bear spray would have "flavored" things up a bit..... think it might have stopped him???

Steve... that's awesome... heheheh... gotta love the bow hook....I'd bet money you made it...

From: XMan
16-Dec-14
I would have been sucking my thumb after that bear charged... holy smokes.

From: Chip T.
16-Dec-14
Yes, welcome back Matt!!!!

From: Bigpizzaman
16-Dec-14
Welcome back Matt!

So I guess my S&W 500 pistol with only 3 rounds wasn't enough for a 9 1/2 foot wounded Brown Bear? Geeze I wish you guys had told me earlier! LOL

From: Genesis
16-Dec-14
Firstly,Welcome back Matt!

Secondly....WHITE RAVEN IS ALIVE !

okay,it's good to have you back.....

From: cityhunter
16-Dec-14
white raven ? Steve who is your bear guide friend cause ive spoken to some that wont take Bow guys !!

From: Genesis
16-Dec-14
cityhunter,you are showing your youth.......White Raven was the Green Goblin of Bowsite Gotham in early 2000....

PM'ed you

From: HANS1
16-Dec-14
One thing on the back up guide guns they are used much more often to follow up on wounded animals running away than charging. This is where the standard bolt action rifle in a larger caliber fits the bill. If I were going back today to guide it would be 375 H/H with a 2.5-8 power scope with quick detach scope rings when removed leaving express style open sights. Another consideration is that a guides gun sees lot of abuse and dirt making a bolt gun reliable in field conditions . Also a scope sighted rifle works a lot better if your " Archery hunter" decides this isn't what they bargained for and decides to shoot it with a rifle instead . My standard backup gun was always my 338win mag . Sorry to derail the thread once again good job by both the hunter and the guide they seemed to hold there composer well. I must have missed it how far was the first 2 archery shots?

From: BLG
16-Dec-14
Lots of good information, some not so good. After being involved as back up in a number of Brn Bear hunts (and kills), the single most important factor isn't the weapon your relying on.

It's what was displayed by the guide in the video, you have to hit something that will stop the charge. I have a friend from Cold Bay who killed a young bear at close range with a 22. Hornet to the brain (not carried as a back up gun, just what a 15 yr. old kid had at the time).

I carried a 30.06 for a long time with pretty good results (dispatched a couple of Brown Bears with it though none were closer than 20 yards). Switched to 375. when I had the funds.

The shotgun toters would loose some faith if they have ever seen a slug so balled up in hair that it could only get about 6'' of penetration. I'm sure that was an extreme case but it did happen so no thanks on the 12 ga. (may have been an old style lead slug, not sure on that).

That video is a great teaching aid on what can happen, as much as anything it was proximity to the carcass and the other bear(s) in the vicinity that caused that charge (you can see his reluctance to leave the whale after the first arrow, as well as his side glances over to the other bear). Looked to me like the hunter got a good arrow in him on the second try and it was just bad luck and being winded that convinced him (bear) enough was enough.

From: Surfbow
16-Dec-14
Steve H., that .458 SoCom is COOL!

From: Hammer
16-Dec-14
Anyone have a link to that other thread by the hunter?

From: Medicinemann
16-Dec-14

Medicinemann's Link

From: Medicinemann
16-Dec-14

Medicinemann's Link
my bad...first one was a link to the video...not the thread.....

From: Steve H.
16-Dec-14
The dude "Gone Again" has dispatched a pair of Kenai browns with his 5.56. I think perhaps one was a car strike so it was probably stationary.

BTW, I should have specified my "evil black gun" is a standard AR15, well all but barrel and bolt.

(TD: Yes, hand stitched (by me) leather over a plate of sign aluminum bent to allow "quick draw". You win the bet, I'll deliver your case of Corona in person.

From: cityhunter
18-Dec-14
Why dont they carry Pepper spray like so many on here keep preaching while in Grizz country !!lol

From: Fuzzy
19-Dec-14
MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank God you're back! That TBM guy was skeerin' me! LOL

19-Dec-14
After watching the video several times there us one thing that is clear and other hunters things that are not clear at all...in fact they never happened at all on the video...what are they hiding..what was edited out.

The one thing that was clear was the fact that the shooter pushed to he shot to the right..."pushed" as it relates to shooting means he collapsed, or lost back tension just prior to release.

The other thing that happened or didn't happen was the archer never loaded another arrow. There was a glitch after the first shot and oddly enough waves that were not breaking during the first shot began to break after the glitch. What actually happened during the glitch and how much time ran off is the question. Another miss could have been edited out or a lot if time might have passed. Could have been something related to a cameraman mistake. Somebody knows. Might have been 2 different bears shot but I dought it.

From: Bou'bound
22-Nov-19
Truer words were never spoken

From: Destroyer350
22-Nov-19
Lots of craziness happening on this thread. Bear charging, TBM being TBM and a guy with 2 first names trying to sell backup solutions.

From: Shiras42
22-Nov-19
Loving that this came back up! Didn't look at the dates at first and starting reading this one particular post about this guy that could have got 7 shots into that bear before I looked at the posters name. Made me laugh!

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