Ironbark Outfitters
5 Day Male Lion Hunt
International
Contributors to this thread:
SHS 10-Jan-15
cmbbulldog 10-Jan-15
TradbowBob 10-Jan-15
Bou'bound 10-Jan-15
Bou'bound 10-Jan-15
bearhunter 10-Jan-15
Bowfreak 10-Jan-15
ToddT 10-Jan-15
SHS 11-Jan-15
SHS 11-Jan-15
TradbowBob 11-Jan-15
Bou'bound 11-Jan-15
frenchbowhunter 11-Jan-15
tobywon 11-Jan-15
DConcrete 11-Jan-15
SteveB 11-Jan-15
loprofile 11-Jan-15
Drop tine 11-Jan-15
BEA 12-Jan-15
Bou'bound 12-Jan-15
Bill VanderLaan 12-Jan-15
Drop tine 12-Jan-15
Trial153 12-Jan-15
Sage Buffalo 12-Jan-15
Halibutman 12-Jan-15
Chip T. 12-Jan-15
Chip T. 12-Jan-15
T Mac 12-Jan-15
Bou'bound 12-Jan-15
Chip T. 12-Jan-15
Bou'bound 12-Jan-15
wild1 12-Jan-15
LINK 12-Jan-15
B N A A guy 12-Jan-15
Sage Buffalo 12-Jan-15
drycreek 12-Jan-15
Woodsman416 12-Jan-15
Trial153 12-Jan-15
Chip T. 12-Jan-15
Bou'bound 12-Jan-15
ollie 12-Jan-15
drycreek 12-Jan-15
Bou'bound 12-Jan-15
drycreek 12-Jan-15
ToddT 12-Jan-15
SHS 13-Jan-15
BEA 13-Jan-15
From: SHS
10-Jan-15

SHS's embedded Photo
SHS's embedded Photo

SHS's Link
5-Day Male Lion Hunt:$15 000 (Starting Price)

This hunt is conducted on foot, 1-on-1 in the beautiful Kalahari.

Includes: 1x Arrival Day 1x Departure Day 3x Day’s Hunting 1 on 1 with your PH 1x Male Lion Ground Transport from JHB International to Kalahari back to JHB International All Cities tag’s and Permit Fees The above rates include the following: • Accommodation is quoted per person per day • The full use of all facilities in the camp such as the swimming pool and satellite television • A daily laundry service is also available at no extra cost • Full catering: early morning coffee & rusks, brunch, snacks, dinner, all soft drinks and alcoholic beverages in moderation • Hunting: a fully licensed Professional Hunter, trackers, skinners, all camp staff, transport to and from blinds, picking up of trophies, field preparation of any game taken and transportation of trophies to shipping company The above rates excludes the following: • Accommodations prior to and after safari • Taxidermy work and shipping of trophies to final destination

For more info please contact me at: carien.spiralhorn@gmail.com

From: cmbbulldog
10-Jan-15
Sounds like a 3 day hunt, not a 5 day hunt.

From: TradbowBob
10-Jan-15
Two questions:

1. So what's meant by "starting price"?

2. If this is a bowhunt, why are you talking about "Rifle hire"?

TBB

From: Bou'bound
10-Jan-15
what is the chance of success on this adventure

From: Bou'bound
10-Jan-15
also do you provide photos of the lion before the hunt so the hunter gets an idea of what he will be killing

From: bearhunter
10-Jan-15
3 day lion hunt. He must be tied on.

From: Bowfreak
10-Jan-15
Lol@Bou. Ha ha.

From: ToddT
10-Jan-15
I must agree with Bou's sentiment.

From: SHS
11-Jan-15
The starting price of the Lions are exactly that, the price at which the Lions that are available for hunting starts. The older, bigger, more mane etc the Lion has the more expensive they are. So the price of your Lion will depend on the dept of your pocket.

The chances of getting your Lion is pretty good. We have not had anyone go home without one yet, but I am not guaranteeing your success as the they are wild animals and roam over 10,000 acres.

If you are interested in the hunt, please contact me directly and I will gladly send you photo's of the type of Lions you can expect to find.

From: SHS
11-Jan-15
As for the Rifle Hire, my apologies, this is my mistake. The Lions are available to hunt on foot with both Bow and Rifle. I missed it, and did not take the Rifle Hire out before I posted the add.

I apologize for any confusion or inconvenience caused.

From: TradbowBob
11-Jan-15
Thanks for your direct answers.

TBB

From: Bou'bound
11-Jan-15
If you want to get a specific lion from the photos can you select the one you want? Say if you want one with 20,000 worth of hair.

11-Jan-15
Excuse me but for me this offer is a Lion kill or shoot,not a lion hunt.

From: tobywon
11-Jan-15
Guys, a couple of good questions were asked and quickly answered by the thread owner. I have no skin in this game and usually don't comment here much but this guy is a Bowsite sponsor and is offering something and not shoving it down anyone's throat. No need to comment much further or put this offer down if you are not interested. Its not for me but who am I to say what it is or isn't for someone else. You can say the same for many that hunt plains game over a water hole as being a shoot rather than a hunt with very high success. It just gets me sometimes that people always feel the need to comment negatively on many threads here. I understand some threads and posters here warrant negative comments, but to me this one doesn't. What purpose does it serve to this?

From: DConcrete
11-Jan-15
Good hell you guys. I am never amazed at the holier than thou sentiment here. The guy sponsors this site, he offers a hunt for a species that the antis are trying to legislate to take away from YOU. And this is your guys concern and stance? Grow the hell up and Learn who the hell the real enemy is for Gods sake.

From: SteveB
11-Jan-15
I agree....leave this guy alone. Not a hunt for me, but he paid the rate to advertise here. Geez.

From: loprofile
11-Jan-15
I agree too. Get a life and leave this guy alone

From: Drop tine
11-Jan-15
Love the irony of criticizing this hunt but a hunt where dogs chase a cat up and tree and you shoot it sitting on a branch is fine. It's that whole glass house thing. Neither of those hunts are for me but there are lots of guys that are good with them. Each to their own.

From: BEA
12-Jan-15
I dont post much here often....but I always check the Africa section...Ive been once with my recurve and I'm saving my pennies to go back. I agree with the last few posts....if its not the hunt for you, why try to de-rail it ? Just move on to a thread or section that more suits your fancy.

From: Bou'bound
12-Jan-15
There is a person on here sponsoring a highly controversial practice. Or one that certainly appears to be. There is much in the press, on the net, and in the archives of this site speaking to what nearly all south Africa lion hunts are. That is penned - captive raised and released - lions in this specific country country. If that is not what it is he should say that so it is not misperceived as being the norm for the area. if that is what it is (and any three day hunt with 100% success is, at least, suspect) than that should be stated. This is not a debate free thread and if sponsors are exempt from challenge than the moderators will clean this up with their magic.

Ken Moody, one of the most respected outfitters in Africa and a sponsor himself posted this on one of the many lion threads last year:

ken explained it as follows.............

These SA lion hunting theads have been debated ad naseum. First off, there are not many areas for lion hunting in SA that are 30K Ha (74,130 acres). A landowner or group may have access to that much total acreage but the actual lion camp (specific enclosure into which the lion is released) will almost certainly be no more than a few thousand acres.

These lion, for the most part, are hand raised and released for hunting. Regardless of what the SA law states as the lion has to be released and unrestrained for "X" amount of time before the actual hunt occurs, most are released the day of the hunt or a day or so prior to.

There are some operators that do have lion out and about on their properties for long durations but these areas are enclosed by fence and electrics and the lion must be fed, normally donkeys, goats, etc. for them to survive. Rarely do any of these lion possess the ability to hunt for themselves and no one is going to release those types of lion into an area with expensive plains game as their primary food source. Would be very stupid wouldn't you say?

I did, however, have the exclusive hunting rights to a single enclosed nature reserve of 28,000 acres one year that had all of the Big 5 present. This was an eco-tourism operation that wanted to remove their excess game thru bowhunting. While I was there the resident pride of lion killed over one dozen nyala bulls in less than a month. At about $2000 a pop those were some expensive appetizers. That situation was ridiculous and the landowners learned a very valuable lesson.

Lion hunting in SA is what it is and if the client has full knowledge of how his particular hunt is going to be conducted then I have zero problem with it. If he is led to believe that he is involved in something that it it not, then I do have a very big problem with it. Caveat Emptor I suppose.

What is empahtically true is that these lion are very dangerous and much more prone to attack humans than their wild bretheren. They have no fear of man as they've been in close proximity to man their entire lives. In fact, if bowhunting, you stand about a 25% chance of being charged so don't take this type of hunt too lightly.

12-Jan-15
I would think that determining if the lion is a released or wild cat is part of the hunter's due diligence? Even if you all feel the need to "expose" the OP, at least show enough class to ask a direct question without the snark.

From: Drop tine
12-Jan-15
If someone is willing to drop big money to hunt a lion and they don't do enough research to know what they are getting into then that is on them. You don't need to look very far to get lots of information and opinions on RSA lion hunts.

So the sarcastic comments were to let people know what type of hunt this is? Come on now, if that was the intent then a straight forward question to the OP would have served that purpose.

From: Trial153
12-Jan-15
Nice website, lots of options there.

From: Sage Buffalo
12-Jan-15
PLEASE READ BOUBOUNDS POST FROM KEN MOODY.

I capped that because it's one thing discussing prices or logistics. It's another discussing whether you believe in the type of hunting being offered.

It may not be YOUR thing - if it isn't then don't read the thread OR start your own thread if you want to have a discussion on lion hunting in Africa.

I don't even know this person but good grief.

From: Halibutman
12-Jan-15
Anyone that thinks there are 3 day (or 5 day, or 26 day) $15,000 hunts for wild African lions available is probably not seriously considering a lion hunt of any kind, or at least not researching it.

Good price. Glad to see the honest presentation. No smoke or mirrors I can see.

From: Chip T.
12-Jan-15
As a sponsor myself I often come on here with prices for caps, shirts, calendars and the like. I would really be pissed off if someone came on and started criticizing my business such as is being done here. It never fails that there is always someone who has to make a snide remark or is overly critical when it is not called for and in many cases it is the same individual. We don't need a lesson on lion hunting in Africa and what is morally right and wrong.

From: Chip T.
12-Jan-15

From: T Mac
12-Jan-15
X2 Chip T.... every class has a clown

From: Bou'bound
12-Jan-15
if anyone thinks that these hunts do not provide the chance for people to see the quarry in advance via photo and select the one based on price they are wrong.

that is absolutely a normal expectation on such a hunt.

Those are not sacrastic questions guys. The hunts are run that way. if you were offended or surprised then you learned from this thread. if they are not run that way the outfitter would have chimed in by now calling "bull crap" on the way i have described this.

i will guarantee you if someone posted a link to a whitetail hunt in a US preserve, that provided pay per size options and pick your buck over the internet via photos so nobody kills it before you arrive, there would be a bunch (and rightfully so) of hostility posted.

That is what this lion thing in SA is. Just because you don't know the facts of lion in SA like you do genetically grown deer in farmed in, say, Ohio, does not mean they are not analogous scenarios.

The new sponsor, who we appreciate, did not come on here promoting his kudu and gembok hunts or there would be no issue. he is promoting, UNLESS HE CORRECTS THE FACTS, a standard S. Africa captive raise and release in a sub-divided confined area pick your victim lion hunt.

I stand by ready to be corrected on the picture I am painting..........

From: Chip T.
12-Jan-15
The sponsor came on here with the specifics of his lion hunt, price and what it includes. We know how they are run and what to expect. I don't think he asked for anyones moral judgement of lion hunting in SA.

From: Bou'bound
12-Jan-15

Bou'bound's Link
Not all have your insight and experience Chip or the questions that I asked about the photos, selecting target animals online, and pay for specific traits would not have been viewed as ridiculous.

If this was a wyoming elk hunt in the bighorn mountains those questions would have been insane. they are,however, very legitimate questions for a SA lion hunt.........and for the OH deer operation in this link i have attached........captive animals, paid for by size, bred in captivity, and selected by photo in advance of the hunt, released in subdivided enclosures on larger properties.

we won't even get into the potential of sedation and how it is sometimes used

this is shopping....................

seem stinky to me but you're right some are cool with it.

From: wild1
12-Jan-15
How 'bout we let hunters that are actually interested in this type of hunt, ask some questions - instead of people trying to one-up the OP, or trying to show what limited knowledge they have. Just a thought.

From: LINK
12-Jan-15
I know nothing about lion hunts but then again I'm in no position to drop 20k to go to Africa. I would assume those that are considering it have a clue or would shortly. I wouldn't hunt that way but could care less if someone advertises it. Leave him alone, guys that advertise are what keeps this site free for the rest of us. Definitely no need to hijack a thread with numerous posts, pretty classless imo.

From: B N A A guy
12-Jan-15
I think the part that some may be missing here is that this outfit ( which has an excellent reputation ) is conducting business on Bowsite, which he has paid a pretty penny to do. I can understand where Bou is coming from as he is attempting to bring to light the facts about many South African Lion hunts. That being said there are better ways do it where you don't come in and completely and intentionally try to undermine a guys attempt to book a hunt and conduct LEGAL BUSINESS in RSA. I am sure the people that actually contact him will have plenty of questions and he will give them plenty of answers. We are starting to make a mountain out of a mole hill here on somebody's business. This is not the correct way to handle it as has been mentioned numerous times above.

Good luck Louis, I hope you have a blessed 2015!!

Best regards, Scott Alberda

From: Sage Buffalo
12-Jan-15
+1 BNAA

From: drycreek
12-Jan-15
I'll bet money that anyone contemplating a lion hunt knows the facts regarding the South African lion hunts. I do, and have never put foot on the African Continent, nor do I ever expect to. A twenty hour plane ride ain't in my future. The OP proposed a legal hunt for someone , anyone, looking to kill a lion in SA. Ken said it all . Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware. If you ain't the buyer, then you have no standing to critisize a legal activity , especially when the seller has not in any way tried to represent this hunt as anything other than what it is.

From: Woodsman416
12-Jan-15
I'm with Bou bound on this one. Hunting ethics is something that's discussed at length and vigorously defended on Bowsite. It's something major that separates us from some other internet archery and bowhunting sites. Is it OK to throw fairchase or ethics out the window if someone pays a couple bucks to be a sponsor?

From: Trial153
12-Jan-15
I am all for the discussion, I just don't think this tread is the place for it.

From: Chip T.
12-Jan-15
You want to discuss ethics and fairchase, then start a thread entitled Ethics of a lion hunt in SA.! This thread isn't the place for it.

From: Bou'bound
12-Jan-15
Chip is right. I was wrong on placement

I appologize for the placement of the debate, not for the information shared.

I am done with this one.

From: ollie
12-Jan-15
"Hunting ethics is something that's discussed at length and vigorously defended on Bowsite."

Really, there was recently a thread about shooting Texas pigs out of helicopters and it appeared most of those who posted on the thread thought it was just fine.

From: drycreek
12-Jan-15
Ethics seem to me to be liquid for some. Case in point: Someone mentioned chasing cougars and shooting them out of a tree. Now I know the hunt is mostly in the chase, and would not denegrate anyone for shooting a treed cougar. In fact , I wish I were up to it. But, you have to admit, the actual shooting of the lion is pretty easy.

Another: At the same time, I hear folks on here scalded for baiting deer by people I suspect would shoot a baited bear plenty quick. As I have stated here before, ethics is personal. As long as it is legal, no one person should tell another how to hunt, or what to hunt with.

From: Bou'bound
12-Jan-15
There is a difference between debating how wild animals are hunted and if the animals being hunted are wild.

From: drycreek
12-Jan-15
You have a point there Bou, but my point was, if you are not going to be the hunter, what difference does it make ? All we can really do is withold our funds from something we don't agree with.

From: ToddT
12-Jan-15
Personally, as already stated, I agree with Bou, but in the end, Chip hit it on the head. Appropriate thoughts, but wrong time and place, with that including my two cents. I figured this would get a bit crazy, but not this much. BUT, I guess, the sponsors listing is staying on top. And if someone can get past the negative, and wants to kill a lion, this rhetoric may just create a sale for him, maybe not, but maybe.

I actually felt just like Bou wrote, then after it went as far as it did, I felt bad for the sponsor. As has been said, it appears he runs a great and reputable operation, and in todays financial environment, almost everyone has to do whatever legal means necessary to stay afloat. And though I wouldn't go on this trip if it were given to me for free, I do know a couple of guys who would do this kind of thing and come home and brag about it.

It would blow everyone's mind at how many guys here in my local area, have made a couple of trips for elk to Colorado, and when they didn't even get a raghorn, because they had no clue of what they were doing, they paid to go hunt a penned elk. One guy in particular, was putting out the word he had killed an elk in Michigan. Later I met up with him and asked him about his "experience." Actually, I think it went something more like, hey, I heard you got a whack-a-pet, at which point he replied, "it wasn't easy, it was in a square mile fence," which may have fascinated other locals that weren't familiar with hunting elk, or in the west. In the end, I let it go, not wanting to POUR on his parade, but thought to myself, I have sit on ridge tops and looked over more ground than a square mile. Anyway, that thought just came to mind.

I do wish the outfitter good luck, and though something like this definitely wouldn't be for me, I am sure there are many out there that would take him upon it. Obviously there wouldn't be a market for it, unless there were a viable customer base.

From: SHS
13-Jan-15
Hi Gentleman I find it in very bad taste to focus on my offer that is not misleading in any way and tear it apart.

South African lion hunts are what they are I have no desire to mislead or try and hide any of the facts. I have hunted both wild lion (in Zambia) and captive bread lion (SA) and also have my own opinion but I don't go post it on other hunts offered. By the way most if not all of my competitors in SA are doing it the same way some just try and put a spin on things…..

That being said I would appreciate it if one could at least have enough self-control to form another post and discuss the morals of lion hunting in great detail as another topic.

Gentleman they will close lion hunting as a whole soon then luckily we do not need to debate about it any more.

And guess what Africa is disappearing as we speak..... so keep fighting each other we are sure getting a lot done for the greenies.

Best Regards Louis van Bergen

From: BEA
13-Jan-15
Like SHS says above...they may close lion hunting in SA....guess what...they won't pack 'er in...they'll just look for the next perceived weakest link ....where there's in-fighting and try and exploit that.

For those who chose to only hunt in the most remote of wilderness, without dogs, bait, electronic gizmos etc...these hunts that are on the radar may be your best friend...as long as they are around...the anti's etc are not focussing on your preferred method/animal/area etc.

If they are successfull in shutting them down however....rest assured they will come looking at what and how you hunt.

I think Ive used my 2 cents up.

.

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