Sitka Mountain Gear
Should I go to Africa or not?
Contributors to this thread:
mountainman 28-Feb-15
Bou'bound 28-Feb-15
drycreek 28-Feb-15
Pete In Fairbanks 28-Feb-15
Nick Muche 28-Feb-15
writer 28-Feb-15
Foot Shooter 28-Feb-15
bdfrd24v 28-Feb-15
IdyllwildArcher 28-Feb-15
MathewsMan 28-Feb-15
wild1 28-Feb-15
Wayne Helmick 01-Mar-15
jstephens61 01-Mar-15
Stekewood 01-Mar-15
Overland 01-Mar-15
TradbowBob 01-Mar-15
JW 01-Mar-15
hogdaddy 01-Mar-15
standswittaknife 01-Mar-15
Cajunarcher 01-Mar-15
scndwfstlhntng 01-Mar-15
Hawkeye 01-Mar-15
JTreeman 01-Mar-15
HighLife 01-Mar-15
Clutch 01-Mar-15
Wayne Helmick 01-Mar-15
PREZ 01-Mar-15
Well-Strung 01-Mar-15
archer 01-Mar-15
Buffalo1 01-Mar-15
mixed bag 01-Mar-15
Aftermerl 02-Mar-15
Bake 02-Mar-15
LINK 02-Mar-15
Bill Obeid 02-Mar-15
mountainman 02-Mar-15
writer 02-Mar-15
HighLife 02-Mar-15
Bud Meadows 02-Mar-15
Bill Obeid 02-Mar-15
ollie 02-Mar-15
HighLife 02-Mar-15
zipper 02-Mar-15
writer 02-Mar-15
BO-N-ARO 02-Mar-15
HighLife 02-Mar-15
Bigbuck 03-Mar-15
Ken Taylor 03-Mar-15
2ndwindfarm 04-Mar-15
mountainman 05-Mar-15
MathewsMan 06-Mar-15
bowbender77 06-Mar-15
Chief 419 06-Mar-15
ESP 07-Mar-15
bowhunter57 07-Mar-15
MedicineMan 12-Mar-15
mountainman 14-Mar-15
HighLife 20-Mar-15
R. Hale 20-Mar-15
From: mountainman
So I'm a die hard whitetail guy. I've killed a lot of nice deer however I've always had a burning desire to kill an elk. (After 5+ unsuccessful elk hunting trips I'm feeling a little snake bit) So a week ago I bought an S.African Safari hunt for a huge bargain on an auction. Never been that interested in Africa but it went dirt cheap so I snatched it up. It's a 7 day, 2 person hunt with a couple cheap species included (warthog and impala). Other than airfare and additional species, about everything else is included.

Although it would be cool for me and my bro to go to S. Africa on this adventure, we'd both much rather kill an elk here stateside before we jump the ocean to another continent. Besides, my pockets aren't deep enough to come home with many, if any extra species at this point of my life. So, I'm considering trading or selling this African hunt for an elk hunt. But, the more I look at the other S. African hunts that are out there and the lack of interest in a trade from an elk outfitter, now I'm wondering if I just ought to go over there and enjoy the experience...

Does anybody want to try to convince me one way or another? I keep going back and forth on this thing.

From: Bou'bound
If you go get out of the blind, walk away from the waster trough and alfalfa pile, and hunt

From: drycreek
The only downside I see is the 20 hour plane ride. That's about all that keeps me from going. I hate planes anyway and just can't see myself spending that much time riding in one. Go and have fun !

You will save yourself a lot of damn money by NOT going to Africa that first time.

Once you hunt in Africa you will keep going back, time and time again.

It's that much fun!


From: Nick Muche
I plan to hunt Africa someday but at this point in my life I have no burning desire to do so. I will go when I am much older (hopefully it's still an option!) and relax, shoot some stuff and just enjoy a few weeks of traveling, sight seeing and hunting. I could have went this year for a 700$ plus airfare and that included 7 days and 5 animals, but I declined.

From: writer
"I will go when I am much older" Nickanese, that means when he's 40. :-)

Mountainman ...for many years I had no interest then I woke up one morning and decided I really needed to go, so I am.

I'll probably come back having spent more than I'd budgeted, but I'm going to go and enjoy myself.

...and shoot what I want, how I want.

From: Foot Shooter
We are booked for Africa this July and I think it will be a great experience. Like you I never had a huge desire for a plains game hunt (always though an archery buffalo would be cool). From all I have heard there could be opportunities for "cull" animals that have broken horns or any other imperfection. You may be able to look into these as you have said you will be limited on other species.

I have found that for me, I just need to do things. If I want to do it someday, why wait....... Too many people put off things that they would like to do for too many reasons, most of us will never have enough money, never be in quite the shape we need to be, or any other reason to put off pulling the trigger on an adventure.

Elk hunting is great, you could never go wrong doing these every year, but seeing other things is really cool as well. Good luck with your choice and whichever hunt you end up on.

From: bdfrd24v
Well good luck if you decide to go. I'm in the process of booking a 2017 S Africa hunt myself. Reason being I can take my wife and she will actually enjoy it. I too never thought of Africa but the more I've read about others trips and the more I've research it the more of an itch I've got.

Seems to me you've done the elk thing a few times now. Try something new. What do you have to lose?

I sure understand wanting to hunt elk more than Africa.

From: MathewsMan
Elk can be frustrating. I was born here in Colorado and elk hunting is sort of the fall back plan every year nothing special happens.

Africa is not just about the animals, although that part is tough to beat anywhere else!

From: wild1
I'd rather regret the things I did, than the things I didn't do.

You apparently scored a good deal, take advantage of it, go and have a great time (you won't regret it).

Go chase elk the next season, and the next seasons after that. And if you come home from elk camp empty handed, gaze up at the African mounts and feel great about the experience you had on the dark continent.

I agree with Bou 1000%. Africa would be awesome if it was like you read about in the old stories by Capstick and such but i think those days and the romance of Africa are gone for the most part. I'd trade it for something. Or donate it to an SCI or NRA banquet so someone can actually enjoy it. If you are on the bubble money wise and get over there you will see other animals you want to shoot and end up spending the money you would need for your next 3 elk hunts. Just my opinion.

From: jstephens61
No, you shouldn't go. Just to show you want a nice guy I am, I'll take it off you hands. I was there in September and it was a great hunt ( in a blind). Just take extra money and books.

From: Stekewood

From: Overland
Judging by your name (mountainman) and your desire to go elk hunting, I'm guessing you like to earn your animals, and take them on their own terms. If you go to Wyoming or Colorado on a mountainous elk hunt, you will truly get the hunting experience. You will go after the animal in its own habitat, on its own terms.

If you go to South Africa, you will hunt an oversized zoo. The animals are bred for the purpose of being shot. They are replenished in the enclosure as needed. This is not to say that some don't breed, but many are put in as needed. You will sit in a blind next to a man-made waterhole. This is shooting, not hunting. If you want target practice at living animals, this is the place to do it.

Many people here laud the African hunting experience. It is relatively affordable (especially if you don't mount your trophies), it is relatively exciting as you see many, many animals, and it is very accessible. However, driving through the gate and into the enclosure rubs me the wrong way. Some of the ranches are extremely large, and others are quite small. I don't want to debate the size of the ranch/enclosure, and to me it really does not make that much difference. There is just something about being inside that fence. As a hunter, I want to hunt wild animals, in their own habitat.

This is not all conjecture on my part. I have been to Africa, and have hunted a South African ranch. I had a great time. I will never repeat the experience. However, there is nothing more in this world I want than to hunt wild Africa. Unfortunately, a proper Tanzania safari is out of reach financially at the moment. I will return and hunt Africa, just not South Africa or Namibia. If you're comfortable with the shooting experience, go for it. If you want a proper hunting experience, go hunt elk. To each their own, and I have not the slightest problem with South African ranch hunts. They are necessary, as they provide a service.

From: TradbowBob
Some guys love it and do it over and over. I've been and probably won't go back for a couple of reasons.

The first being that if I want to hunt on a game farm, there are lots of those a whole lot closer than South Africa. I did enjoy my time and took 3 great critters, but the one I enjoyed the most was the Red Hartebeest that I crawled a couple hundred yards through the grass to get to.

The second reason is that it is a rather dangerous place to go unless you are on the ranch. In J'burg, the houses have cinder block fences with concertina wire on top. It is real easy to get into an uncomfortable situation. Yeah, I know that there are lost of places here in the states you can find the same thing, but it is a factor.

I was expecting a much more wilderness experience, my fault for not doing enough research before I went. But there are positives to it too. You will meet some fine people and be able to experience a different culture. You will come away with a very different appreciation of the joys of living here in the US.

If you want to go, have a great time, just look at it for what it is.


From: JW
Go. Enjoy yourself and soak it all in. It can't be compared to Elk hunting, Whitetails, Sheep etc. It's an African plains game hunt. Go experience something new, you just might like it. They say variety is the spice of life...

From: hogdaddy
you say you're getting tired of not killing anything, go to africa.

I went with my ole man in 2009. Honestly, one of the greatest trips I've ever done. Africa is so much more than killing animals over water holes. The culture, people, animals, birds, etc. I can honestly say that the hunt was great, but the experience as so much more than that. It was my dad's #1 trip of a lifetime and we got to do it together. Would never trade that time for anything.

From: Cajunarcher
I'm sure it's a great time and maybe someday I'll consider but I have way to many NA animals that I'm dying to hunt . I'll would choose 1 elk over 10 African animals at this point in my life. Good luck on whatever hunt u choose to do!

You have tried elk a number of times and enjoyed the hunt but did not take game. No big deal and part of hunting. I think that I was up to 6 tries before I put it aside to try other things (and my hunting partner also happened to die). That said, hunting in S.Africa is an entirely different experience on every level: different culture, different animals, different techniques, different continent. The first time I went it took me a few days to realize that it was really really Africa and not watching nature shows on TV. It takes awhile to sink in.

Bowhunting in Africa is, for the most part, sitting and ambush hunting in blinds: not that you can't get out and stalk if your rancher is set up for that. Once you come to grip with that it is a blast. It is not a slam dunk and the weather and wind can mess you up big time. Success is high but not guaranteed. You will have a chance to see many animals of all kinds and many at the same time. I can remember way back on my first trip that so many animals came in to the water hole at once that I had to sit down and stop looking so that I wouldn't start hyperventilating: which is something that I have never done before or since.

At the end of the day you get to have a hot shower, great meals and relax with typically great camaraderie. It is not either or, when it comes to elk or Africa. Take the opportunity to experience something new, but understanding that it is not the same type of hunting transferred to a new location.

As far as cost and trophy fees goes, you will undoubtedly want to shoot more than you now think. Always have a secret reserve fund, but after 4 trips there and lots of reading about others feelings on the subject, I will give you a few real cost saving ideas: 1. Take as many pictures as you can, and consider just printing them as your trophies 2. Unless you are a craftsman, forget the back skins and just tan the capes. OR, leave the entire skin and just have the horns, tusks, and maybe the skulls. Of course tan your skin if you really have a place to lay it out or hang it up. I still have skins in my closet from 20 years ago waiting for someplace to put them 3. Euro mounts with or without the skulls are substantially cheaper than shoulder mounts, and can even be done yourself as the items are all cleaned before shipping. Many people have made the point that the cost of taxidermy would/could pay for a whole other trip. 4. CULLS. Depending on the ranch, herd growth, and weather conditions it is not at all unusual for them to allow you to shoot excess females or males with injured horns. They get the meat anyway and it helps the herd health. You get the fun of additional shooting at much reduced cost.

Don't miss the chance to see Africa. NOW. Things are changing every year. There is no predicting the future of hunting in Africa in years to come.

From: Hawkeye
I echo what Tradbow Bow said.

From: JTreeman
Ok, I'll weigh in.

I was asked a few weeks ago "if I could only do one trip every year and it had to be the same what would you do" I would hunt elk, hands down.

That is not the way it works though, I can do whatever I want (and can afford) each year. I don't want to do the same thing every year, I like to experience differnt hunts, different location, different people, different species, etc. I like the adventure of all my trips. Yes, some I do more than once, but I do more that are new/different.

People are different. My dad is happy doing the same stuff every year, he has little to no intrest in big adventures. He just shakes his head when I tell him where I'm headed next. We are not all the same.

Any of us could die any day, there are pianos falling out of windows all the time. Well, probably not so many pianos, but you get the idea, life is short and you never know how short it might be.

I want to live my life and have as many experiences as I can. I can't do everything that some guys can do, but I have been extremely fortunate in my life to do a lot of different hunting adventures and cherish them all. I work hard and take risks so that I can do 4-6 hunts a year (plus deer and turkey at home in OK). I make sacrafices and tough decisions to make it happen. We all make decisions, choose what is important to you.

So my take on it is do all that you can, only you can make the decisions of what direction your hunting takes you, but do as much as you can while you can. It is a big world out there!

Africa is great, western elk hunting is great.'only you can decide which is right for you in this situation. I have done both (multiple times each) and will do both again.


From: HighLife

From: Clutch
"Get it Done" when your ready n can afford it !! Great Experience for me---

There are some very well thought out responses here. Good advice from everyone. Good luck on your decision and be sure to let us know what you decide and recap the trip for us if you go.

From: PREZ
I've done 2 successful elk hunts and I'm going to SA in July 2016....but I have a feeling nothin will beat a bugling elk in bow range...only you can decide.

From: Well-Strung
I've been in a very similar position. I've hunted elk my whole life. Many years ago we bought an auction Africa hunt. There really isn't a comparison between the two for me.

Elk hunting is a bit of a chore, a love of life but a chore. Up at 2 or 3am and hike or pack mules up a mountain in the best and worse of weather. Push yourself to the brink and then push yourself further. Maybe you get an elk maybe you don't. More then likely you won't be coming home with one every year but sometimes you do. Either way you still love it. You aren't bagging 3 animals like you can with whitetail. You learn elk the hard way. It's beautiful and re-charging it's my favorite time all year I live for it.

18 years ago we bought our first safari from an RMEF auction we were working at. Like you mountainman it was a multiple animal going really cheap and my mom was upping the price without really any intention of buying it. Well it went for nothing and my brother and I and parents were off to Africa. We had a great time and we learned many things from the professional hunter and his trackers. We expanded our hunting experience and sharpened our skills by being successful. Out of the 4 animal package we took 11 big game and many small game. We built a really good friendship with this younger PH and his new girlfriend. It was great and we saw many areas of S. Africa. We saw animals we never saw on Tv or knew anything about. I spent time hunting with my brother and it was very much a vacation. Cuban cigars, night around the fire, beaches and lots of time in the bush. A time I'd never forget, it changed us all and knew I was going back before I even left.

The Ph and his GF got married and years later bought their own place. He ran hunts all over Africa like his father did. They started coming to the US to stay with us and advertise at trade shows. His safari business expanded he added more territories and our families friendships grew.

My parents were able to go a few more times. But it took 16 years for my brother and I to be able to take our families. His family of 4, me and my new wife and our parents all went back. This time that hardworking PH and his wife have their own family and now their own stunning lodges and farms and do a lot for their local community. He is well respected in his industry. Stan is now the president elect for Professional Hunters of S.Africa. We spent almost 3 weeks there last year and hunted every day with bows/shotguns and rifles we fished and traveled and spent time with our friends. We hunted nearly every day, sometimes in blinds and on foot... even barefoot. Crawl if you want to. Tell your PH what you want from your hunt.

My point is.. an adventure is just that. You never know where it will lead. Our family now has traveled all over Africa and made great friends and had unforgettable life experiences. It is what you make it. Shortly after I got back the first time I took my first elk with a bow.. just saying.

From: archer
There is nothing anywhere that can compare with an African Hunt. The closest thing to it in terms of number of animals would be a Quebec Caribou Hunt. There is no where on earth where you have so many species and quantity available to you. As far as value, nothing compares also. If you break it down, an African hunt is less expensive than Alaska, British Columbia, New Zealand, etc. for what you get. The service and weather is also a big plus. Excellent meals, comfortable accommodations, moderate weather. The only drawback is the 18-20 hour non-stop (from East Coast) flight, but if you combine all of the travel necessary to get to some other locations then it again is not that bad.

From: Buffalo1
If you have a weakness for addictions, I would not recommend you going to Africa at all. Your "hunt of a lifetime will become a "hunt in you lifetime."

Around Day Two or Three, you will be trying to figure out how you are going to be able to afford the next trip back.

The long plane ride is tough, but the total hunting/cultural experience out weighs to long plane ride. Sleeping pills can soften the long ride over and for some strange reason the ride back is not as long- I think that is because of less anxiety and fatigue.

I would not recommend any hunt for less than 10 days.

As far as "bang for buck" and number of animals you will see- you cannot beat Africa.

Best of luck with your decision making process.

From: mixed bag
are you able to sell the hunt to someone else?I went 3 years ago and had a great trip with my Dad.I'd love to take my son soon.Its not elk hunting that's for sure but its a great hunt in its own way.You DONT have to sit in blinds,and guarantee you will be challenged in spot and stalk.The plane flight is the worst part of the trip.I loved the culture and birds,game drives ect.. on my trip.I have pics of being chased by an elephant on my game drive.You won't have that experience here.Go and have fun.Or better yet, give me a reason to buy it from you and I will

From: Aftermerl
Mountain Man, I felt much the same way as you and Writer, No real desire to Hunt Africa. I had more interesting hunts on my bucket list than that. I have 2 grown sons, one hunted, one didn't. The non hunter came to me one day and asked if I would be interested in going to Africa on a Safari. I shrugged it off, as just a passing whim. 6 months later I was dragged kicking and screaming into planning a trip I wasn't all that interested in. 10 months out from leaving I was sure the expense would some how put the Kibosh on the trip. A month later the details were set in stone, and the trip was a go. It wasn't until a friend mentioned he wished he could have taken is dad on a trip to Africa and what a memory that would have been, that it dawned on me. You see, in the planning for the trip, the 2 boys mentioned they wanted their Grandpa (My Father-n-law) to go as well. At 76 Yr old the fellow can still get it done, whether with a bow or rifle. Him going was a natural fit since he and I had been hunting partners for nearly 40 years. I knew then, as the last holdout, I couldn't get in the way of such a memory. My 2 sons getting to hunt in Africa with their dad, much less their Grandfather, so I was all in. The trip turned out to be more than I could have hoped for, not a visit goes by that we don't reminisce about those 10 days. To think I was against the idea in the beginning. When the trophies finally get hung we'll be able to relive that memory, over and over again. And Yes, As Pete from Fairbanks said, if saving money is the goal? Then stay at home, because you'll be planning your next trip while still over there. Change it up a bit and go to Africa, because a adventurerous African Safari is far more desirable than a 6th unsuccessful elk hunt. If Elk is that important to you, remember they will always be there in the years to come.

From: Bake
I'd go, but I'm also booked for '16 anyways. :)

I think you must look at it as others said, as not just a hunt, but a cultural experience.

Like you, I've been bitten by the elk bug hard, and have had some great elk trips. Aside from looking at the elk antlers on the wall, and thinking of the hunt, some of my most enjoyable memories of my elk hunts are the traveling through the beautiful west, meeting locals off the beaten paths and off the interstates.

I enjoy the travel, driving, small western towns, etc., almost as much as the hunting itself.

I'm looking forward to that aspect of my SA trip as well.

You can always make more money, you can't make more time.


My. 02


From: LINK
I understand how you feel about elk. That said nothing says you and your brother will both be around in the future. Go do the hunt you have planned and I'm sure it will be great memories with your brother.

From: Bill Obeid
GO ! And don't cheat yourself out of at least a few days travel in Kruger Park . It's a trip back in time.... .

To the days of Marlin Perkins and his sidekick , Stan .

It's hard for me to think of a better way to enjoy life !!!!

From: mountainman
There is another mountainman now? Is there no a way to prevent more then one person from having the same user name? Heck, you could be the first mountainman for all I know and maybe you haven't posted in a long time.

As far as your Africa hunt. If you got it at a steal and it's with a reputable outfit, I'd say go for it. The elk will still be here.

From: writer
Marlin Perkin's sidekick was Jim, wasn't it...the guy who got to jump out of a moving boat and wrestle a giant snake or crocodile while Marlin told us how dangerous it was?

I used the think I wanted to be Jim.

Now, I'm more of a Marlin kind of guy.

From: HighLife
Yup it was Jim went on to fame as a regular on Johnny Carson. I agree Writer let me hold your beer and I'll watch you do it LOL

From: Bud Meadows

Bud Meadows's embedded Photo
Bud Meadows's embedded Photo
Go! I waited until I was 65 to go on my first trip to Namibia in 2012. I got hooked, and went back in 2013. I skipped 2014 to have knee surgery, but leave in June 2015 for my third safari. It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on. Here's a picture of my kudu from 2012:

From: Bill Obeid
Yep.... I forgot about Jim Fowler...... And he was Marlin ' s long time companion.

But , Stan Brock had a shorter stint with Mr. Perkins .

Either way... They often had to wrestle the Boa while Marlin would be scouting up ahead for the campsite.

From: ollie
You want people to talk you out of going to Africa? Really? Seriously? If you would rather go elsewhere than do so.

From: HighLife
better yet for the right price I'll take it off your hands :>

From: zipper
Why go there? Everything you can shoot there is a spike!

From: writer
"Everything you can shoot there is a spike!" - funny.

One of my favorite Marlin memories was when they were in the Everglades, and Jim tackled something and things started getting a bit hairy.

In the background you could see Marlin getting the heck out of Dedge, and heading for the airboat.

From: BO-N-ARO
Do your "mountain" hunts now while you are young. You can go to Africa and set in a hide when you are 70...or older.

From: HighLife
Yeah I remember as a kid watching it with the family and when Jim was looking like he was gonna be gone so was Marlin LOL Maybe that's what happened to Stan

From: Bigbuck

Bigbuck's embedded Photo
Bigbuck's embedded Photo
Go for it! I'm 55 years old and have been there twice, it's an awesome experience you will never forget. I purchased both of my hunts at auctions, I took the wife both times and we went with another couple both times. We were treated like kings and queens, awesome food/etc. Like Pete said the only thing bad about going to SA is that you are going back! Try to take a little extra time and visit Kruger National Park, way cool! One more recommendation is to have your things mounted back in the US, I waited 2.5 years on my first go around. Check out "99 Days Dip and Ship Guaranteed", they did an excellent job! Have fun! PS - you won't regret it!

From: Ken Taylor
A friend of mine "guides" out there and last year he offered me a free hunt. I had to pay my way there and I'm assuming that there would be a lot more extras.

Anyhow, for reasons other than financial, I declined.

I know many people who have been there (with gun or bow) and it just doesn't interest me at all.

I'm an "ole" northern woodsman though and I can understand that others might enjoy it.

From: 2ndwindfarm
ISIS, Ebola, And Oprah.

From: mountainman
WOW!!! I've got to say - bowhunters never cease to amaze me. Thank you to everyone who has pitched in with their opinions and comments. A wealth of knowledge...and because of bowsite, given to me for free! Africa sounds like an unforgettable experience, if I choose to go. If I don't go this time, sounds like I should plan on it in the future...Thanks again everyone.

From: MathewsMan
You have the chance, do it.

Someday perhaps I'll go back with my own son. It is an experience unlike any other.

Even if you don't bring back any animals or horns, it will provide you experiences you will treasure a long time.

From: bowbender77
GO! X2

From: Chief 419
Hunting South Africa is not just about the hunt. It's far from anywhere. Getting there is half the fun. The trip is an adventure that you'll remember forever.

You'll see more game in South Africa on a 10 day hunt than you'll see hunting in the US for the rest of your life.

Take a good camera when if/when you go. My biggest mistake was taking cheap cameras. You only get one chance to take pictures, unless you make another trip:)

Don't let the opportunity slip away. GO!

From: ESP
I am an oddball. I would go to Africa before I would go on another elk hunt. I think that the overall experience would be greater in Africa, but it is ultimately your choice.

From: bowhunter57
YES. You will get more bang for your buck then any other hunt you can do.

From: MedicineMan
Can't weigh in too much on whether to go or not as I have not made the trip over the pond.....yet! I convinced my fiancé that we should go to Africa for our honeymoon, and unexpectedly, she said yes. Needless to say, I was on the phone A.S.A.P. and had a trip booked within a couple days before she changed her mind! I've got tons of critters on my bucketlist that I will hunt one of these days (good Lord willing of course). I've always thought an African trip would be interesting, but never really had it at the top of my list at all until talking with several friends who have been that has really pushed the idea of making the trip over there at least once. The more talking with folks I did, the more I realized that yes, hunting is a big part of the reason for going, but the whole experience of Africa is the BIG reason for going.

I am super excited about it as it creeps up closer to time to go. Just hope the soon to be wife doesn't drain the bank account by shooting more than I do when we get there!

From: mountainman
I've tried to PM some of you and I guess they're not getting through...if anyone is interested in taking this hunt off my hands let me know. I'd let it go at a huge discount from it's face value...just got too many signs telling me it's not the time for me to go...I can be emailed at

From: HighLife
PM sent

From: R. Hale
With a little luck you can meet a future US president. That is where they seem to come from now.

No, sadly, the future U.S. president is probably from Arkansas.

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