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Walter Palmer comes out of hiding
Which only speaks to what we are up against and how effective the antis are. The rules of this battle stink but they are the rules
The "public" feeds on what that media feeds them. Ignore it and it goes away quickly. Problem is, the uninformed (and uneducated) won't ignore it.
The ones watching and feeding off of t are far out numbered by the ones that simply don;t care. God Bless
If he would just shut up it was passing, now he is just starting it up again. Seems funny how this is happening right before that show airs??? Coincidence????
I have been more than willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, turns out I was wrong and he is a scumbag who feels that because of his financial success he is above the law.
Hunters who violate game laws are stealing from the 99% of hunters who follow the rules.
"Hunters who violate game laws are stealing from the 99% of hunters who follow the rules."
Should read - POACHERS who violate game laws are stealing from the 99% of hunters who follow the rules.
There is a difference...
Hard to believe some faint, limp wristed "hunters" threw the dentist under the bus. Crow must sure taste good. Nothing worse than scum eager to throw their own under a bus without the facts anything just to feel good. Sanctimonious liberal hypocrites that fling arrows then cry after they "harvest" an animal.
You said Bill, right on!!!
I am with you Bill. I was amazed at how some of our own, including SCI which I am a life member of, reacted before knowing the whole story.
I didn't convict the guy on the Zim deal as the facts were not put out there.
That said, he is a convicted felon/poacher. So I don't have any warm fuzzies for the man. He's pretty much the poster child for the stereotypical poor representative of hunters. All about the result and the means don't matter.
Heard on the radio today that Zim would not be charging Palmer but might still charge either the PH or the landowner. Wasn't clear to me which one.
The first autrocity was to humanize the animal by giving it a name.
The second was to politicize it by misconstruing the facts.
Complete waste of time when actual human beings are being needlessly murdered in mass for religious belief. When you fix that, then turn your attention to the lions rights...
HDE, agreed- and the third was the general readership of internet news taking all that to be gospel.
Having said that, there is a difference between being innocent and not guilty.
I heard tonight they dropped all charges.
HDE, it's pointless to compare the relevant with the irrelevant. It's apples and oranges.
Scores of humans being massacred are ignnored. An old lion dying earns tears on national television. These two things have nothing to do with each other.
Yes, IdyllwildArcher, they do.
It shows how misguided and ridiculous the media society as a whole has become. It has caused polarization among groups targeting to pit hunters against anti-hunters. It also creates the polarization of supporters of the 2nd Amendment against those who oppose it.
When does one animal life becomes more important than a human? You have some in high profile positions calling for the banning of the death penalty when capital crimes are committed, then at the same time you turn a blind eye to; 1) groups (or individuals) killing mass amounts of innocents, and 2) groups calling for the lynching of a private citizen based on partial facts.
Yes, with all do respect, they are linked. I've yet to see the public outcry for the lynching of Jihadist John, or whatever his name is...
Anybody who believes what they see on the news from lamestream media these days is guilty of two things--Ignorance and stupidity. You(and I say "you" because there were many on this forum) who hung this guy out to dry based on what lies you were fed by the media and organizations such as PETA, etc are just as guilty for allowing non-reputable organizations to turn you against a fellow hunter. It's their MO and the sooner you recognize it, the better off we'll all be. I'm not condoning poaching but I get pretty tired of the pompous highhorse that many on this forum ride. I suspect it's a lot like the spouse who accuses the other of being unfaithful. Usually, it's the accuser who is the unfaithful one. As for this stupid lion case, my bet is that the PH gets off eventually as well. Zimbabwe is trying to quietly make this thing go away and not create an uproar amongst all the tree-huggers who would likely start another propaganda campaign if they said they weren't charging either one of them. This way, they still make it look like they're gonna prosecute the PH but, in the end, my bet is they'll drop the charges quietly and it'll all go away--as it should.
On most hunting websites, including this one, hunters through Palmer under the bus before any of the facts came out. We are just as guilty as the anti-hunters when it comes to how Palmer was treated.
Dave, you are right on the money. As has been said many times before we are our own worst enemy. I was not surprised at all getting questioned about the whole lion deal. What surprised me was the "hunters" attacking the guy. Seemed everyone had an opinion. If you believe the theory that 10% of the population is anti hunting, 10% is pro hunting and the 80% remaining either have no opinion or are open-minded we must present a positive image or we are doomed. I am not saying we all had to be 100% behind the hunter but the criticism leveled by some went a hell of a long way to promote the anti agenda. All they had to do is say,"look, even hunters are against this".
Same nonsense went on with the post "I want to see your full mounts". I know it was one person but look at the turn that thread took. The guy shot a great ram, had a great adventure and did what many on here will never do, BUT it turned south pretty quick because of only one individual. You may not like rifle hunters, you may not like crossbows or any particular brand of equipment or any other sort of thing that is different from what you do but keep in mind every time you open your mouth in front of someone in that 80% you are helping them come to some sort of opinion. What sort of opinion they form is directly related to how we present ourselves.
I agree with you Jim.
That's why I will never get behind Walter Palmer as a good representative for hunting. That's not to say I will convict him on facts not known to me on the lion deal. But I will not defend him either. He is a convicted felon who poached game, lied to law enforcement, and tried to pay his guide to take the blame.
The quicker the spotlight turns away from him, the better.
Kind of like we were told as kids, "if you don't have something nice to say..." I don't know the facts of that case so it is best not for me to comment. What I am saying is, whether we like it or not we are all representatives of the hunting community. A little common sense can go a long way. We don't have to support everything and everyone just maybe we shouldn't give the other side any more ammunition.
Well Said Bill!!!!!!!!!!
A bunch of wide mouth hypocrites on here that we share this love of hunting with. Tried, convicted, and hung by his own brothers based on ??????????????????
It keeps coming up that he was a convicted felon in the past. If I remember correctly, he plead to something totally different than what he was charged with initially. It could be insinuated why he did that. Or, it could be left alone as no one knows.
I do know this, I've spent my time and, money fighting a trumphed up game charge and, was proven innocent and guilt free in the long run. Against the advice of my lawyer that said to take the deal of a lesser, negotiated charge. I didn't and justice was done.
My point you ask? Keep your mouth shut as things are rarely as they appear. I'm not arguing for or against him. Just saying if your politically correct personality doesn't know the circumstances, is it right to assume them?
Just something to ponder. God Bless
I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the Bear story and talking to my next door neighbor who has a farm up north near Palmers 900 acres of hunting land says he is a real jerk to everyone around there.
The lion permit might have been legal but the guy just seems to be looking to kill trophies anyway he can. Bad for our sport.
What Jim said X2. I couldn't believe all of the anti-BS coming from hunters when they didn't even know the facts. Some of you boys have egg on your face....
I have heard SCI whom is "First for hunters" would not support him. Wonder if this is true? As far as coming out of hiding, give me a break. I imagine I would have handled it similarly. Would have let my dog chew on some of the stuffed animals. He likes em.
"talking to my next door neighbor who has a farm up north near Palmers 900 acres of hunting land says he is a real jerk"
I was on the fence about Palmer but who am I to argue with empirical evidence like this.
African lions sure make strange bedfellows.
"talking to my next door neighbor who has a farm up north near Palmers 900 acres of hunting land says he is a real jerk"
About as accurate and factual as a report on MSNBC.
Even if it were true, is that a reason to throw a fellow hunter under the bus? If it is, then I guess we'll be throwing a lot of you guys under the bus if you're ever falsely accused because you're jerks as well.
"The first autrocity was to humanize the animal by giving it a name"
Ever had a dog?
domesticated animals are often given names. most likely a person bought property with his own money, manages it the way he wants to, is labeled a jerk.
I know my neighbor well. He is a hunter as well. If he says the guy is a total asshole and that along with trying to throw his money at the bear case is enough for me to say the guy had it coming. To the level he got it no. I'm actually all for hunting in Africa. Even lions if its managed.
I just got back from 3 weeks working in Congo and heard lots of stories by my friend whos son ran an operation in CAR before it fell apart and he was the only guy standing up to the poachers and trying to manage the game.
Some of you are crying about throwing people under the bus. We need to call people accountable to their actions if it makes us all look bad.
The one thing that showed me a bit of their trying to hide stuff was the deliberate movement of the game collar by either the PH or the land owner to try to hide the kill. That's just bad practice if you didn't do something wrong.
I agree with you Gaur. I certainly wouldn't be starting a Palmer fan club.
talk about egg on ones face how come walt palmer Is allowed to be a member of PY Club with his past poaching ! i still haven received a reply from the club! Why would a convicted poacher like Palmer be allowed in a club that supports Ethics and fair chase !! I guess the big donations Palmer has made to the club has them brain washed !!
Palmer needs to be removed from the PY club !!! Sad for all the members that have entered there animals under the clubs rules .
I hear US fish and Wildlife has a ongoing investigation on this case still !
PS the PY club has full knowledge of Palmers Poaching the Blk Bear !! talk about a kick in the ass for conservation fair chase ethics LOL !!!!!!
LMAO! I bet they got all the down low from you city and I bet they get at least one call a day from you telling them that same message.
" most likely a person bought property with his own money, manages it the way he wants to, is labeled a jerk. "
Exactly!! Somehow, USFW, P&Y, and the Zimbabwe govt must all be wrong on this one but Gaur and his neighbor got it right. Maybe you should spend more time investigating the facts of these cases instead of speculating based on hearsay from unreliable individuals. Personally, I don't know all the details of the bear case but I know enough about the lion case say that justice prevailed.
Personally, I defended Palmer anyway I could when the conversation came about. And here on bowsite, it was surprising, the number of those who were eager to hang him, along with the rest of society.
However, after seeing the news clip, it definitely makes me wonder if the same thing didn't happen in Zim. Meaning, as the dust was settling, or maybe even before it all began, Palmer offered the landowner and guide a substantial amount of cash in return for clearing his name. I think this line of thinking if fairly reasonable. I do not know any hardcore facts, but the news clip certainly doesn't help his cause.
As a matter of fact, portions of the way he handled that situation, again, if the report was accurate, he definitely seems like an @ss.
I defended him to others I talked to as well and did my best to defend hunting in Africa, baiting for cats etc.
Sorry my opinion of him has been also jaded from the bear poaching and my conversations with my neighbor about how he interacts with the community up north.
When it becomes all about the trophy it leads to some poor decisions. We need some major change on what we are teaching our kids about why we bowhunt.
I am also curious about the P&Y club's take on his prior game violations in Wisconsin. Apparently that does not disqualify you from being a member? (If I am not mistaken, he is a fairly well known member.) Makes me wonder why they ask on the application "Have you ever been convicted of a game violation?" I saw on their Facebook feed that they linked to an article that said he would not be charged, with the status being "Yep", seeming to imply the club supports him. I am not trying to convict his character and say he needs to be disqualified. Despite what seems to be a pretty clear case of poaching, I don't know him or all the facts in that case. But to me it doesn't look good at all.
Look, here's the bottom line. There are a lot of things that each and every one of us do, including the way we hunt that may not appeal to others, whether it be bowhunting, shooting over bait, use of trailcams, drives, long-range hunting, crossbows, trophy hunting, high fences, doe hunts, food plots, etc. Personally, I have no desire to go to Africa and hunt exotic animals, nor do I have any desire to own and shoot AR's. But the reality that I have become acutely aware of in the last 5 yrs is that the MO of environmental and left-wing media wackos is a "Divide and Conquer" approach. Their agenda is to slowly attack fringe elements of our hunting brethren, knowing that most of us will not take the time or effort to defend them. They are slowly whittling away at our numbers and fragmenting our unified front. Every time someone falls for this crap like the Palmer situation, they win again and they know it. If you really think he could buy off the Zim govt and USFWS, you're delusional. Do you know the details of the bear "poaching" incident or are you basing your opinion on speculation there as well? I'll be the first to say that I abhor poachers. But, in America, we are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not so on Bowsite, apparently. Until we start acting like Americans and banding together collectively to protect our Constitutional rights, whether you agree with each and every person's personal hobbies, then we are part of the problem. Eventually, it will not surprise me in the least if bowhunting is under attack next for being an "inhumane" way to kill. We already saw a little of it in the lion incident where they dwelled on the fact that he shot it with an arrow and it was crippled and suffering. Do you want each and every hunter in America, including gun hunters and recreational gun enthusiasts coming to your defense or do you think there are enough bowhunters to defend those attacks on your own? If you think you have enough bowhunters to win, you are delusional again.
The question is: do we defend those who do not merit defending (i.e. convicted poachers) merely for the sake of "unity"? I don't think so.
We are not called on to defend every action or every person just because an animal dies under the guise of "hunting". IMO this hurts more than helps.
A good friend of mine is an officer in P&Y. I had a chance to talk with him about the Palmer situation when it first came out (primarily about Cecil although I did raise the issue of his conviction in WI over the black bear). He said the board thoroughly investigated the case and decided additional action was not warranted. He would not provide any more details than that. Unlike this website, P&Y chooses not to gossip about their members and investigations.
Dave, thank you for that post. That is exactly what I've been wanting to say but couldn't find the right words. Either we stand together, or fall divided.
I've been saying this for years....but we are our own worst enemy.
+1 TX Hunter. Defending poachers only hurts hunters
And calling someone a poacher based on factless allegations by organizations such as PETA, HSUS, etc makes you part of the problem. Like I said, get off your high horse. I'm not defending poaching. I'm defending the facts which suggest otherwise.
Dave- The fact is that he was a convicted poacher prior to the Cecil debacle. Defending him makes us all look bad IMO
bigwoods u cant bring up facts guys like dave justify this Palmer poacher !
If u do your research Palmer made large donations to the PY club in the past ,, ! so much for fair chase
Why would hunters that obey game laws support Palmer?
Hey Dave this is the BLK bear Walt Palmer poached and the bow he used US FISH and WILDLIFE
The facts of that case leave a lot to speculation and doubt. Nonetheless, just because the guy was cited once does not make him a serial felon. I'm willing to bet there's a lot of guys on this forum who have gotten a citation in their lifetime, for one reason or another, including some honest mistakes. Does that mean they shouldn't garner support from the hunting community should they be attacked when they haven't done anything wrong??
Dave, excellent points, again we are our own worst enemy! Here is a little differnt way of looking at this. Are we defending the individual or hunting? I get it there are some that don't like the guy. Sounds like there is a basis for that although the bit about the locals not liking him is purely hearsay. Every time you say he is no good, a poacher a lousy neighbor or what ever in the context of the Cecil story you are playing right into the anti's hands. You can defend hunting and not the individual.
u guys are lost dave the guy tried to bribe folks the guy has paid out 140grand in a sexual lawsuit in his past
dave if it smells like chit it must be!
Dave go ahead make lame excuses for this poacher lowlife and yes dave i have no problem telling Palmer to his face !
Jim they are defending a poacher a man who our justice system had by his balls Palmer even with his money could not escape this act . Took a plea cause he was busted red handed , and please dont start he took a plea cause its easier cheaper chit .the man is loaded he could easily throw 100grand in a defense team .
Hey Dave go look it up FIA public record .
Dave a citation and poaching are two diff worlds u are lost bro .
Dave please post the Palmer WIS bear case u can see Palmer himself signed this plea ,,
I agree that just because someone makes a mistake once, doesn't mean they will always be a "bad person."
However, if, and if is the key ingredient here, the news report is even remotely accurate, the arrogance and ill regard to any law, does say a lot about his general character. Personally, I think a person can change the way he makes choices, but it is all but impossible to change their entire personality. And, again I will add, according to the news report, he seemed like a pure egotistical @ss that has no regard for anyone, or anything. So, though I do not know the details concerning the lion situation, and cannot say whether he was guilty or not, but I can say, with his past record, it wouldn't be terribly surprising.
I also agree that we are under attack and the very basics of divide and conquer are being used. However, do you wish to cling to a person who in the past has shown utter disregard for hunting laws and basically anyone or anything that stands in the way between him and what he wants?
As far as paying off the Zim government, I didn't speculate that, but you need to do some research if you think that couldn't happen. Though I have no examples of paying off those in upper government, I know full well that in lower levels of government, a bit of cash can buy you most anything you want. And what I did speculate was, after hearing that he offered the bear guide $20,000, or name a price, to keep his name clear, I could easily see him paying $200,000 to the guide or farm owner, and in a country where someone may make ten to twenty thousand a year, or much less, a few months in prison, or a ten thousand dollar fine would be pretty tolerable for such a large sum of money.
The truth is, almost none of us will know what actually happened in either situation, but if the information available for what he has already been convicted of is remotely accurate, I really do not wish to stand at his defense. Honestly, if anyone does research on his past that is available online, Mr. Palmer makes it almost impossible for others to defend him.
Todd, it was the intent of the broadcasting to make him look that way.
I have a good friend who has hunted with Palmer annually for quite a few years, and he and his family think highly of him and have mentioned some impressive humanitarian things Palmer has done.
Another good friend has been labeled as "arrogant," a "prisk"...and most other derogatory things by some in the county where he bought a sizable ranch with money he 100-percent made himself. Good guy, but he gets judged differently because of his wealth.
That's not that uncommon, really.
No comment on the bear case and Dr. Palmer. I haven't seen enough facts, or heard his side of the story.
Where were all of you guys now slamming Bowsite when the news was breaking about that lion? I didn't read many letters to the editors, or opinion lines from hunters defending him, either.
Writer please facts on palmers case with the bear! yea like he would tell u the truth wake up man . Its public record I guess writer u dont trust our justice system . I guess u think he was a target cause he has money .
Facts are facts please do not dilute what he has done , When caught instead of manning up he tried to cover his trail with his wealth .
Why is this still going, he made a mistake in his past and got raked through the coals on this. If he was able to wheel and deal the system because he has cash, good for him. Thats the system we have, Case closed.
Jealousy and ignorance are terrible things and the root of everything wrong in this country right now. I can't fix "stupid" but when we all lose our hunting and gun rights because some of you choose to ride on your high horse rather than defend our freedoms, don't come crying to me. Those in glass houses....never mind.
There is more danger to losing our rights in defending lawbreakers than in calling them what they are. It doesn't help the cause to equate poachers with hunters, it does the opposite.
I am not in a glass house. I don't poach animals and lie to the authorities. And I am certainly not jealous of those that do.
Palmer may/could be a real pric! and lowlife in the past but that should not determine how the Cecil case is viewed.
We name our dogs because when Coach yells "Hey Stupid!" and I come running around the corner it can get complicated....
training wild lions OTOH.... good luck....
Ollie x2. I don't need to know or hang out with Dr Palmer to defend lion hunting in Africa or trophy hunting in general. All I need are the facts of THIS case. Panties in a wad over unsubstantiated rumors.... personalities or after the fact CYA statements from either side.... good grief.
PS: I know lots of folks that own good amounts of land and don't let anyone else hunt it called a-holes by locals. Lots. Being born and raised in an area gives you no extra rights to hunt where you "used to". Sorry. The world stops turning for no juan.....
"Palmer may/could be a real pric! and lowlife in the past but that should not determine how the Cecil case is viewed."
That is what I have been trying to say but i guess I was not as eloquent as Ollie. Not my job to judge anyone but give it a rest. And I did read the whole case against him relating to the bear. Sounds guilty to me but I have two questions. Why was USFW prosecuting the case and why if the penalty could be 5 years and 250k did they settle for $2900+/-. In this case it appears the coverup was what got him, not the crime. Bernie Kerik was the Police Commissioner in NYC on 9/11 and wound up going to jail for tax issues and allegedly receiving work done at less than market value. He had one of the best quotes I have heard. "When it says the United States vs (fill in the blank) that is no joke". They can throw the whole weight of the government at you. Just curious.
I am not defending him however it appears he did not do anything wrong In the Cecil and that is what the world was focused on.
I'm relieved to see that many on this forum are more logical than others. The points raised are the ones that should be evaluated and considered before passing judgement based on a news report that the guy poached a bear. There has to be way more to that story than the lamestream media would like us to believe or USFWS wouldn't have copped a deal like that. I can speculate what the truth is but it doesn't matter. It has no bearing on the lion incident, despite what you holier-than-thou's want to believe. As for him being a prick, let me tell you a little story. Seven years ago a purchased some property. After the purchase, it was apparent that a neighboring landowner was traversing my property to access one of his as a "shortcut." He didn't have permission or an easement and was tearing up my roads, not to mention impacting my hunting and enjoyment of the property. I put up signs and a gate, prohibiting him from entering my property anymore. He sued me and I prevailed in court. My point is, how many of his neighbors do you think he told the truth regarding the situation? I guaran-damn-tee you that everyone he told about the situation, I was labeled a prick and likely much worse. Don't always believe what your neighbors and the media tell you. There's usually more to the story.
He pled guilty to a felony. Gave a sworn statement. Was convicted.
I'll go with those as the facts. And not twist myself into a pretzel speculating otherwise.
Dave are u and Walt a Item ! You sure sound like u love this poacher lowlife !! Dave do u poach yrself ?
"He pled guilty to a felony. Gave a sworn statement. Was convicted.
I'll go with those as the facts. And not twist myself into a pretzel speculating otherwise. "
Well then, let's set the facts straight rather than twist them.
The poaching crime he allegedly committed was a misdemeanor. The felony was "lying" to Federal authorities. Im not justifying or condoning his behavior but it irritates me when people mistakenly or intentionally skew the facts for the benefit of their "argument." Sorry for carrying on Pat but I think it's important for people to consider how their actions will impact the future of our sport.
his poaching will impact us dave ONLY in a Negative manner
Please see Pat's post above! Ignore at your own risk!
City, all this talk about people supporting a convicted poacher, yet in another thread you say the berry bugle made by Glen Berry who was convicted of multiple wildlife violations in Idaho in 2005 is your favorite!