Tight Spot Quivers
Arrived: Most Powerful Production Bow!
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Extremist 11-Jan-16
RutNut_@work 11-Jan-16
craig@work 11-Jan-16
Chip T. 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
Bigpizzaman 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
Jack Harris 11-Jan-16
Cheque 11-Jan-16
JTV 11-Jan-16
deerman406 11-Jan-16
wild1 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
t-roy 11-Jan-16
razorhead 11-Jan-16
Dyjack 11-Jan-16
loopmtz 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
Mark Watkins 11-Jan-16
kellyharris 11-Jan-16
deerslayer 11-Jan-16
redheadlvr 11-Jan-16
redheadlvr 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
Extremist 11-Jan-16
kellyharris 11-Jan-16
deerman406 11-Jan-16
DartonJager 11-Jan-16
Drummer Boy 11-Jan-16
Extremist 12-Jan-16
Medicinemann 12-Jan-16
Extremist 12-Jan-16
LBshooter 12-Jan-16
Medicinemann 12-Jan-16
Chronic 12-Jan-16
Extremist 12-Jan-16
Extremist 12-Jan-16
Extremist 12-Jan-16
XMan 12-Jan-16
Florida Mike 12-Jan-16
bad karma 12-Jan-16
mn_archer 12-Jan-16
AndyJ 12-Jan-16
Grunt-N-Gobble 12-Jan-16
smarba 12-Jan-16
Medicinemann 12-Jan-16
dave kaden 12-Jan-16
Kwikdraw 12-Jan-16
Matt 12-Jan-16
Mark Watkins 12-Jan-16
IdyllwildArcher 12-Jan-16
Matt 12-Jan-16
Hunting5555 13-Jan-16
SquirrelBowMaster 13-Jan-16
jjs 13-Jan-16
Extremist 13-Jan-16
smarba 13-Jan-16
Extremist 13-Jan-16
Medicinemann 13-Jan-16
Matt 14-Jan-16
Extremist 14-Jan-16
South Farm 14-Jan-16
Extremist 14-Jan-16
Cheque 14-Jan-16
KJC 14-Jan-16
Extremist 14-Jan-16
Bowbender 14-Jan-16
Extremist 14-Jan-16
DozierLester 14-Jan-16
Extremist 14-Jan-16
KJC 14-Jan-16
Rayzor 14-Jan-16
Ironbow-cell 14-Jan-16
WV Mountaineer 14-Jan-16
IdyllwildArcher 14-Jan-16
heavybows 15-Jan-16
Pete_H 15-Jan-16
Matt Rehor 15-Jan-16
hawkeye in PA 15-Jan-16
BTM 15-Jan-16
Lucas 15-Jan-16
Huntcell 15-Jan-16
Ironbow-cell 15-Jan-16
Ironbow-cell 15-Jan-16
Lucas 15-Jan-16
heavybows 15-Jan-16
IdyllwildArcher 15-Jan-16
Ironbow-cell 15-Jan-16
Ironbow-cell 15-Jan-16
Lucas 15-Jan-16
heavybows 15-Jan-16
Extremist 15-Jan-16
Extremist 15-Jan-16
IdyllwildArcher 15-Jan-16
Ironbow-cell 15-Jan-16
TD 15-Jan-16
Extremist 15-Jan-16
Dooner 15-Jan-16
Extremist 15-Jan-16
IdyllwildArcher 15-Jan-16
heavybows 15-Jan-16
Extremist 16-Jan-16
TD 16-Jan-16
Extremist 16-Jan-16
rlsmith1 19-Nov-19
Jaquomo 19-Nov-19
Beav 19-Nov-19
Twinetickler 19-Nov-19
Scar Finga 19-Nov-19
drycreek 19-Nov-19
GF 19-Nov-19
timex 19-Nov-19
IdyllwildArcher 19-Nov-19
bowhunter24 21-Nov-19
From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
It has finally arrived...the Worlds Most Powerful Production Bow!

APA King Cobra TF at 100-120lbs. This is a 370fps bow. Certified from the factory at 369fps with 500 grain arrow for 151 lb/ft KE. And 319fps with 700 grain arrow for 158 lb/ft KE. This puts it higher then any bow made in history. Topping almost every crossbow as well. Only the Scorpyd can create more energy at 173. Now...this is only with the 100lb limbs...I have not shot the 120 limbs yet! Pics to follow.

From: RutNut_@work
11-Jan-16
This is freaking awesome, please keep us updated.

From: craig@work
11-Jan-16
Wow

From: Chip T.
11-Jan-16
Very impressive but I really hope that Jake doesn't get any ideas:)

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
Jake??

From: Bigpizzaman
11-Jan-16
Jake's shoulders are shot, can't pull that anymore, I'll test drive that puppy for you!!!! Have a Australian Buffalo hunt in June!!

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
I have an old PSE Mach Flight 4 that pulls 145, Bowtech Tribute at 115 and they are short 20+lbs ke on this bow...with the 120 limbs should break 180!

From: Jack Harris
11-Jan-16
I would call it "The TENDON-ator", for all the torn tendons, ligaments, and rotator-cuffs it will cause... Yikes...

From: Cheque
11-Jan-16
Wow those are some impressive stats for sure! I'd love to see some pics and hear how they are modified to shoot such weights.

From: JTV
11-Jan-16
A little much for chipmunks dont ya think ....

From: deerman406
11-Jan-16
WHY? Shawn

From: wild1
11-Jan-16
One question:

Most powerful "production" bow. But then you added "....custom built".

Are they mass produced and you get to "customize" it, or......?

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
Love the banter! I know, jokes are totally expected.

@wild1 An expected question. Almost everything you order is "custom", so the word is used loosely. Regardless, It is a production bow, with only weight specified...like every bow is. No? So I say built for me, but production.

To contribute to your point, I had to have a lawyer draft up a waiver of liability that both parties had to sign before taking receipt of the bow. That's because their insurance does not cover this weight. Engineers did say it's good, and they tested heavier before without issue, so we are building up so to speak.

One thing I must add is that I do not shoot light arrows, not even close to IBO. So that was part of the negotiations. It's the impact of higher speed shots that can damage parts more then the weight. Like running can put as much as 2000 pounds of pressure on the ball of your foot, but not at rest obviously. So, WE have no fear in shooting this bow up to the weights we have so far reached, even for long durations and years of happy hunting.

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
@deerman406 Sorry, almost missed your post. Why? well...because I wanted to? Honestly, to break the record. To push the limits. Is it a daily use bow? No. But I don't shoot that much anyways. I can use it in Africa, as I have been there twice. I can hunt Buffalo here, or Grizzly, or Moose...even turned down does 130+ke. But it's not an issue for me. In fact (and this may be due to my less-then-perfect form), I shoot better with more weight on the hold (wish bows came with less let-off!!!). Honestly, I like a heavy arrow with power to spare and a HUGE broad head. Before I get attacked, I know, I know: accuracy. Yes, I shoot well, or well for me. I hold 6" or so out to 40 on good days. But when I shoot lighter bows and lighter arrows and lighter set-ups, it doesn't improve. God made me strong, not a sniper. So why not I say.

P.S. I have a 78lb Carbon Knight I shoot with 550ish arrows for deer.

From: t-roy
11-Jan-16
For very heavy poundage bows like this & others, do you need specialized nocks to compensate for the extra stress that they would be put under?

From: razorhead
11-Jan-16
I was just watching the history channel, on weapons of the 13th century,,,,,,, English long bows, were about 140 pounds,,,,,, average shot distance in battle, 30 yards,,,,,,, man them guys were strong,,,,, what the heck happen to us, ha ha.......

From: Dyjack
11-Jan-16
I can feel my shoulders dislocating just from reading this hahaha

From: loopmtz
11-Jan-16
Sweet!

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
My nocks are plastic but the older taper-fit (Grizzly shafts), so plenty over built. Also used meta-nocks before. But wasn't an issue. The weight of an arrow really isn't an issue for a nock, impact can be.

OK, so the English long bow might be another thread altogether. I own two recurves at 140 & 150 lbs respectively...they shoot very heavy arrows of near 2000 grains. But to get to your point, they bows needed to be heavier because they were so slow. They didn't have cams or let-off or anything, but they did have the ability to draw the bow only the distance needed. Quite often in combat, and often from fatigue, they would short draw the bow. When an enemy is 5 yards and closing, you don't aim... Still, they would shoot heavy arrows as a way of life. Shooting every day. It was their job. So yes, you would be strong too (and selective on who was an archer), if it was your job. Not to mention no cost to shoot.

My shoulders are built like a diesel truck...but I built up as well. I actually drew my 145lb PSE at the age of 17, in front of witnesses, twice...I weighed 145-150 pounds

From: Mark Watkins
11-Jan-16
Congrats Extremists.....that's just grand.

And let me guess....you drive a Banks powered diesel, with a 12" lift kit, 40" tires, a big ball sack hanging out back and work in an oil field job?

WTH?

Mark

From: kellyharris
11-Jan-16
Wow this bow reminds me of a song by Toby Keith (I ain't as good as I once was).

To much bow for me at this point in my life.

Can you imagine rolling your shoulder in and that string hitting your forearm????

Mark Watkins what the hell is wrong with the truck I drive?

From: deerslayer
11-Jan-16
LOL @ Mark

From: redheadlvr
11-Jan-16
Shoot a heavier arrow. You're killing the integrity of this bow shooting arrows that are too light. It ain't always about the speed. Unless you're running the quarter mile.

From: redheadlvr
11-Jan-16
(1) crossbows aren't in the same class as a compound or trad bow (2) Find a late '90s Martin Fury and put 100# limbs on it. This bow would beat your new "marvel".

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
To all:

I drive a 97 S10, 4.3l, not even 4 wheel drive. Complete with rusted out runner panels and everything.

I shoot heavier arrows...what on earth makes you think I shoot light arrows? The certificates were from the company; I believe IBO rating is the standard in which they measure speed from every factory.

Bow was built to shoot heavies. My 4 arrow weights are 900, 1005, 1225-1275 (dependent on BH) and 2000ish (for my recurves.

Martin Fury? No, cannot top this bow. No bow produces more energy or shoots heavy arrows faster lb for lb.

From: Extremist
11-Jan-16
Why so negative? It's to push the limits of a bow...what's so wrong with innovation and performance? How many millions are spent on NASCAR, Formula1 and TopFuel Drag? Anyone drive one down the road?

I don't go shooting small chipmunks or deer with it to show off, nor does my truck have a scrotum. I just so happen to be strong...so sorry.

From: kellyharris
11-Jan-16
Well the Internet says if I win the lottery I can share it with all residents and we all get 4.3 million dollars.

From: deerman406
11-Jan-16
To each his own, when I was younger I shot a 90# PSE and although I killed a few deer with it, I paid for it later on. Have Fun! Shawn

From: DartonJager
11-Jan-16
Just my .2c worth but above 70lbs pull weight = large % increase for shoulder surgery 100lbs+ DW = IMHO almost certain shoulder surgery. A 82lb PSE Fire Flight Express did in my shoulder with out doubt.

Again just one mans experience based opinion.

From: Drummer Boy
11-Jan-16
Everyone is different if you can shoot that heavy good for you.

From: Extremist
12-Jan-16
Thank you guys for the advice. I do stay on top of my physical health. 36 and so far, so good (not been shooting 145lb pull or less since 17). But then again, I don't bring out "The Big Guns" often. But they do come out.

Just an FYI, 2005 198lb Navy Armwrestling Champion...100lbs to me is 70 to average. And Please don't take that as an insult, I'm just built different. I also don't pretend to be the monsters that Bench 600+ and squat 800 or whatever. I pull, it's what I do.

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-16
Extremist,

I have hunted with higher than average bow poundages for many years. Like you, the poundage wasn't an issue for me.

Fifteen to twenty years ago, the kinetic energy required to legitimately bowhunt for dangerous game in Africa necessitated really high poundages. The requisite arrows for such high poundages, required large diameter (frequently double walled) shafts to provide adequate spine....luckily, as time passed , improvements in design and technology no longer required extreme draw weights to provide the energy necessary to take even the largest of land animals. Additionally, arrow improvements have allowed us to reduce shafts diameters to a point where some broadhead ferrules are now larger than the arrows spined for 100#+ draw weights.

I do not know if you are the owner, partner or investor in the company intending to manufacture these new, high poundage bows. I can tell you that if I was younger, I would probably give them serious consideration. My single biggest concern for the company that may be making these bows, is that if they are going to specialize in making ONLY high poundage bows, they are targeting a VERY narrow demographic of the bowhunting community....and they may have a very difficult time generating sufficient sales to offset the cost of manufacturing them....unless the bows sell for an exceptionally high price....which will further reduce your potential market. I am probably not telling you anything that you do not already know.....

Leading up to a scheduled 2014 elephant bowhunt, my primary bow was only going to possess a draw weight of 91 - 92 pounds. Not because I couldn't draw more, but because it was no longer necessary to draw higher poundage anymore. My backup bow was still around 110-112 #, but the newer setup generated more energy without the increased risk of injury from higher bow poundages.

Don't get me wrong, I probably still use more poundage than necessary for any animal in North America. I like shooting fairly heavy arrows that still have a flat trajectory, while providing massive trauma upon impact....not because it is still necessary to do so, but because of my previous bowhunting experiences and personal preferences. However, I will turn 60 this year, and I have decreased my draw weight in order to extend my remaining years as a bowhunter. It is easy to understand why others may question the need for even higher poundages...because as technology continues to improve bow efficiency, the VAST majority of research and design is in trying to generate MORE energy from lower draw weights....not higher....because it will appeal to a larger target market.

My previous research indicated that 800+ grain arrow shafts that flew PERFECTLY with an extremely sharp broadhead would completely penetrate a near side elephant rib (even if centered on the rib at the thickest spot) on a consistent basis, with 118-124 ft/lbs of kinetic energy. Given that they are the largest land mammal on the planet, anything in excess of such energy seems to increase the potential for a shoulder related injury more than any positive that I can see it providing. Your claims of 151 ft/lbs and 158 ft/lbs are impressive...but that is about 30 ft/lbs more than what is required for the largest animal on the planet.....and I believe that is probably why Deerman406 posted the question "WHY?". I would be interested to know what 500 grain arrow is spined to tolerate 120 draw weights.....I never found any two years ago.....

I don't want to pour water on your fire....just sharing some observations from my bowhunting experiences.

From: Extremist
12-Jan-16
Medicinemann, It is an honor and a privilege to hear from you again. Most do not remember me, but I was largely on this forum in 2003-2005, and hunted with the Bowsite group in August of 2005 at Ken Moody Safaris...miss all of you. (see if I can find a pic)

As intended, this bow was built for one major purpose: To be the most powerful bow. Success! But to have a bow, a hunting bow at that, that does not hunt is a downright shame. So it will see the blinds of Africa someday, along with my old Tribute as back-up. Sadly, my Buckmaster, my first bow build, that accompanied me in 2005 is gone.

I do not own any 500 grain arrows. I do not shoot anything less then 856 grains through this bow. The factory shot a Big Game 110 or something with an ultra light point to clock the IBO, as per their rules or regulations. All my arrows are monsters. Not even kidding. I do have one arrow remaining of the 1916-2117 double walled arrows I built for my first bow. I also have 8 remaining of the 1005 grain arrows I took to Africa in 2005, which are double walled carbon arrows with 285 grain points. I have the heaviest Grizzly sticks they have ever made with a measured and calibrated .175-.195 spine. They have 70 grain brass adapters and 285grain points, or 315 grain Broad Axe broadheads. I also have 18 remaining of the very old Easton 2440's...yes, not a typo. I get them up to 1225-1275. So yes, I am fully prepared for this.

I do not have any affiliation with this company, other then their test dummy. I pay for my bows, I do not receive money from them (they cost me plenty!), nor is their any deal from them. They do not intend to produce these bows on any scale. It was nothing more then a production bow with limbs, from their production stock, cut to heavier weight. So really nothing more then a production bow with a specified draw weight above normal. Yes, strings have an extra wrap (2 strands). Cables as well. But I will be making my own here soon enough when they need replacement, and they will be of normal strand count with a new fiber...Yes, I test stuff...shoot me.

From: LBshooter
12-Jan-16
Hey more power to you if you can pull it. But, you must come back down the road and let us know when your shoulder pops?? hope it doesn't but man that's a lot of pressure. What are you going to target with it ?

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-16
Extremist,

I probably read your previous post incorrectly.

"Custom built APA King Cobra TF at 100-120lbs. This is a 370fps bow. Certified already at 369fps with 500 grain arrow for 151 lb/ft KE."

According to this comment, it does suggest that SOMEONE shot a 500 grain arrow from the 100-120 pound platform. I was just interested to find out what 500 grain arrow could handle that kind of poundage.....or am I still misinterpreting something?

From: Chronic
12-Jan-16
Does it rattle the fillings out of your molars when you shoot it? :)

All jokes aside... I wonder if APA has done thorough testing of the bows limitations at such draw weights.....hmmmm

From: Extremist
12-Jan-16

Extremist's embedded Photo
Extremist's embedded Photo

From: Extremist
12-Jan-16

Extremist's embedded Photo
Extremist's embedded Photo

From: Extremist
12-Jan-16
I am their test dummy at these weights, just fyi. They have done 118 before just to blow it up from over stressing the limbs, so this is the first set of limbs made for this weight, rather then over flexed to make weight. That being said, we are both happy to say the bow is holding up. But it still took a serious waiver and such to get it. I don't think it will be an issue. At some stage though, one set of limbs just might get tuned another 30 lbs to see what happens.

I will be targeting some big game animals...Suburbans, Excursions, Ford Powerstrokes...

Medicinemann, Like Bowtech, they ship the bow with speed certificates. They shipped two with this one. One at IBO, one at 700 grains just for me. But no, sorry if I mislead anyone.

From: XMan
12-Jan-16
I would be an armless man after a few shots :) I cant even imagine how flat this bow would shoot out to 50 yards at those speeds, crazy!

From: Florida Mike
12-Jan-16
At one time I would have questioned "why?" As a matter of fact I did question Medicinemann about this very issue! lol, it didn't help not one bit! If it makes you feel good to shoot that beast then chootem! I, like MM, am going to start dropping weight as I just turned 55 and my puny 70 lb Destroyer gets hard to pull back when I'm in a tree and its 20* and I'm shivering! But I'm a sissy. Goodluck! Mike

From: bad karma
12-Jan-16
Some folks like 600 hp cars, too. Have fun with this bow. I'm happy shooting 60 lbs, but if folks want a bow at 100-120 lbs that shoots hard, enjoy.

From: mn_archer
12-Jan-16
What is that hook on the top, a gut hook??

Michael

From: AndyJ
12-Jan-16
Powerstrokes...

Those 7.3 are tough hunting. Like a Cape buffalo. But if you're looking for a 6.0 or later it shouldn't be too hard. Just give it a little time and you should find one limping along the side of the road :)

12-Jan-16
Extremist - Was this the only bow company you could find that was willing to make such a bow for you?

If so, what were the reasons by the other manufacturers to why they wouldn't build one?

From: smarba
12-Jan-16
The hook at the top is the bow model is "Cobra" and the fang can be used to hang on a tree limb is my understanding. They have a broadhead wrench machined into the riser also.

From: Medicinemann
12-Jan-16
"They have a broadhead wrench machined into the riser also."

That is actually not a bad idea...except I get nervous whenever there are broadheads near my strings and cables....LOL

From: dave kaden
12-Jan-16
I am a fan of shooting all the weight you can accurately shoot. How many deer and elk do we see on hunting shows now running off with a half shaft or more, sticking on near side? I have always shot 80 lb hunting bows, and now that I am 63 I have backed down to 75 for deer. But if I hit a shoulder blade on deer or elk I go thru it, thanks to 2 blade heads and heavy arrows. I think this light weight light arrow craze many bow hunters are using is wounding a lot of game. Shoot Big if you got it in you.

From: Kwikdraw
12-Jan-16
13" draw length?;^)

From: Matt
12-Jan-16
"I am a fan of shooting all the weight you can accurately shoot. How many deer and elk do we see on hunting shows now running off with a half shaft or more, sticking on near side? I have always shot 80 lb hunting bows, and now that I am 63 I have backed down to 75 for deer. But if I hit a shoulder blade on deer or elk I go thru it, thanks to 2 blade heads and heavy arrows. I think this light weight light arrow craze many bow hunters are using is wounding a lot of game. Shoot Big if you got it in you."

I wonder if more game has been wounded solely due to too light a draw weight than hunters solely due to too heavy a draw weight? With the advances in bow technology, 60# is enough to cleanly kill all but a handful species that roams this earth.

From: Mark Watkins
12-Jan-16
And thus begs the question about the "elephant in the room"......accuracy.

It doesn't matter what poundage bow or KE if one can't place a razor sharp broadhead where we are aiming on a consistent basis (and after having not shot for hours and many times in very cold weather)

Mark

12-Jan-16
Matt X2.

Watch the average compound shooter draw. They typically look like they're trying to force out a turd they've been drying out for a week.

It's my opinion that the average compound shooter is 5ish lbs over bowed.

Our demographic generally leans towards the unreasonably machismo.

From: Matt
12-Jan-16
"It's my opinion that the average compound shooter is 5ish lbs over bowed."

5# and 1"+ in draw length. But I guess if you admittedly don't shoot very well, shooting 2x the poundage you actually need might help you recover game you otherwise might not - or allow you to think you might.

From: Hunting5555
13-Jan-16
"That is actually not a bad idea...except I get nervous whenever there are broadheads near my strings and cables....LOL "

Believe it or not, I actually know a guy that used to shoot a 120# compound for whitetail. He climbed in his stand one evening, pulled an arrow out of the quiver, and touched a cable with the broadhead. The resulting "explosion" almost knocked him out of his stand!!!

I can't remember the inches of this guys upper arms, but they were huge! He pulled 120# like most of us pull 60# seriously. He injured his shoulder at work a few years ago and had to drop down to 80#'s.......

13-Jan-16
Bows DO come with less let-off. In fact all mine are 0% ;)

From: jjs
13-Jan-16
All I got to say is enjoy your youth, my shoulders were like rocks when young and finally tore a rotator and the rest is history. An old man told me when in my youth when working heavy physical labor and said "son your body is like a door hinge, the more you swing it the likely in years it will need replace.'' Word of wisdom I should have listen to.

From: Extremist
13-Jan-16
I often wonder how people believe everyone has to be the same; think the same, built the same, want the same.

You see someone that's above average in some way "Quick, Condescend! Attack!"

All Joking aside, I just happen to be strong enough to handle it very well. And although I am not Olympic grade in accuracy, I shoot fairly well. As I stated, lighter bows and/or more let-off does not improve my shooting. Is what it is.

This was the ONLY bow company that would even consider building this bow for me. I don't know about the 120+ lb bows out there because I had to build my bows myself, and although not extremely complicated, no bow company would even entertain me. Back in 2005-6 I got Bowtech to make me a slightly stronger 102.5lb Tribute that I tuned to 112.

So again, the point was to make the most powerful bow, and mission accomplished.

From: smarba
13-Jan-16
Is this a "stock" riser? Or did APA have to make an extra-beefy version? Same thing with cams, axles?

From: Extremist
13-Jan-16
Stock on both parts. They choose to use 6061 T651 Aluminium for riser and cams for it's softer shock absorbancy vs the 7075 some high-end bow companies choose to use for strength. What impresses me is their bows are not heavier or weaker! Seriously not a spokes person for them...really really. But I have to say what I see. Like their Ultra light bows are 3.4 lbs and 27.5 ATA.

I am actually working on a billet of a special alloy that is insane strength to send them to make cams and riser from, but it will cost me some serious time and effort, and money. But I'll see how it goes for my next gen bow.

My original idea was duel limbs tethered together, cables tying limbs together on cam axis and base of limb pockets with other goodies. So this is better.

From: Medicinemann
13-Jan-16
I'll be curious to see if Ironbow contributes to this thread.....

From: Matt
14-Jan-16
So 6" groups at 40 yards on a good day is above average?

From: Extremist
14-Jan-16
...

I hope to hear from Todd soon.

From: South Farm
14-Jan-16
LOL!!! Your new bow is faster than your S10:)

From: Extremist
14-Jan-16
And the truth comes out! Wonderin' if I could ride them arrows, if I make 'em heavy enough...won't need a truck! Less maintenance.!

From: Cheque
14-Jan-16
6" at 40 yards might be below the bowsite elite average but from the 2 dozen or so bowhunters I know that is pretty common. Most of them only hunt whitetails and wouldn't shoot past 30 yards anyway so it really doesn't matter to them.

From: KJC
14-Jan-16
"What is that hook on the top, a gut hook??"

Bottle opener, eh?

From: Extremist
14-Jan-16
Agree! Let's pop a top to this!

So was going to start a thread on arrows...would that open up another can...of worms?

From: Bowbender
14-Jan-16
I'd be curious if the axles and bearings (or bushings) have been beefed up significantly. That's a helluva load dumped on a relatively small cross section.

From: Extremist
14-Jan-16
Nothing is essentially beefed up or over built except the limbs naturally, but that's inherent to draw weight regardless.

Still though, this bow was bought (and agreed to) only shoot very heavy arrows. My lightest arrow is a single 856 grain double wall, the rest 900+ (read previous posts). With this much less shock or energy is dumped into the axle.

Should I describe in a little detail how bow efficiency works, or is that another topic thread?

So this is more of a test bow really, but it's standard in nearly every way.

Gen2 will be different. I am building the axles out of 1 of 2 materials that have the highest strength to weight ration of any metal, and actually exceed carbon fiber in application (material science is my thing, so I'll spare the details). Even the aluminum billet I am handing them will be literally more then double the strength. That bow will sport either duel limbs or over built and over stressed single heavy limbs that I will have to replace often. I will be shooting for record cast with that bow...

Get my handle yet?

From: DozierLester
14-Jan-16
Pictures? I would love to see some pictures. Action pics you know, stuff getting perforated.

We are not all the same, I am below average in several categories my wife tells me. Oh well, doing the best I can.

I don't think I've over bowed, I barely pucker when I draw my bow.

Some times I wish I was strong enough to draw a bow like this, but alas, one or two beverages and the desire wanes.

From: Extremist
14-Jan-16
I like the way you think.

I, obvious to matt, am below average in accuracy and not-so-perfect vision. Dexterity isn't my strong suit. I have large Type 2B muscle fibers, not the fast twitch precise control some do. So yeah, I guess I am compensating!

I'll make a video this weekend if I can, in the sunlight or archery shop. APA actually asked me to do the same today! I need to grab some stuff back from the archery shop that keeps my stuff for display...but honestly, I hate breaking my gear; and it's flippin' expensive!

Grizzly Stick Safari arrows w/5.5" SC feathers: $30 2 1/8" Battle Axe BH w/125gr steel adapters: $20 or Easton 2440 shafts...irreplaceable. or the 1005 grain BuffTuff shafts!!! Done!

Some steel plate, solid concrete block, 3/4" UV cured pre-finished 14 Lam maple plywood with water soaked phone books fore and aft...making a plan...

Anybody have 3 deer they can spare?

From: KJC
14-Jan-16
I have three deer hanging in my cooler right now. Feel free to borrow them but you have to pick them up!

I enjoy shooting some pretty heavy weights too. I have a PSE 100 lb Big 5 bow with 50% let off. I it had built in their custom shop in 2007. I ordered it in preparation for a cape buffalo hunt. The hunt hasn't happened yet but in the mean time the bow manufactures have come a long way and I can get as much energy out of lower weight bows. I still love to shoot the bow though. I shoot PSE Black Mamba shafts with a total weight of just under 900 grains. I shoot it mostly in the summer but have managed to kill a deer with it every year that I've had it. I usually don't tell anyone the weight that I'm shooting because they tend to get angry and suddenly become very concerned about my health and welfare for some reason.

After practicing with 100 lbs for a couple of of days, 70 lbs feels a toy! Good luck with the new bow!

From: Rayzor
14-Jan-16
Pretty awesome but I think I pulled something just reading about it.

From: Ironbow-cell
14-Jan-16
Saw this thread on my cell phone. On vacation so can't use my regular account.

Anthony, congrats on your new toys. Sorry I haven't been able to be in touch lately. As you are finding, or maybe will soon discover, there may be a limit to how much draw and arrow weight you can play with until it is too much.

I would advise you be careful. I have watched really heavy bows blow up, fortunately with no serious injuries. I never had one of my heavy bows blow a limb, but I have blown cables and I think a limb bolt once. I saw the pictures of a broken handle once too. It is the reason I made the limbs of my workout bow out of truck leaf springs.

If you can draw it, then why not? I quit telling people how much I drew at 3D shoots. Sooner or later someone would pick up one of my arrows (600-640 grains) or start asking about my equipment and it was always a strange response. And as someone alluded to earlier, if you can't shoot it accurately, then it is worthless. I won numerous 3D tournaments so I proved my point.

I have 1916/2219 combos, 2117/2317 combos, and even shoved something inside a 2419 (can't remember what I stuffed in there). I also have 2220 Golden Key shafts. Heavy suckers. Been wanting to shove a carbon in a 2117 but haven't tried it yet.

As Jake (Medicineman) alluded to earlier, the bows of today are so much more efficient it doesn't take the same draw weights as I used to shoot to get the performance we got then. Perfect arrow flight is paramount no matter what draw weight you shoot.

Even after all the heavy bows I shot, the workouts pulling my heavy bows, the competitions I entered, I never had a shoulder injury. I did tear a rotator cuff getting run over by a horse in 2006 in my right shoulder, and the same year tore something in my left shoulder splitting wood. Took me two years to comb my hair without two hands (I didn't do surgery, just therapy) and had to drop my draw weights to 64#. I am slowly getting back to drawing the heavier bows again, but at 55 I probably won't hunt with a 86# bow again.

14-Jan-16
I've pulled a custom rig about 7 or 8 years ago that was supposed to be 104 pounds. It wasn't hard. I think it was a PSE if I'm not mistaken. Also, I used to shoot an XI set at 84 pounds. Hunted with it for 5 years. Killed a lot of deer with it too. Still got it but, it busted the cable about 5 years ago and, I just put it up in the closet.

I acquired a 77 pound recurve at my draw length of 28.5 inches, last year about this time. It was easy to draw and shoot. I shot it for about three months almost daily. Then in April, I put two boxes of hardwood flooring on my right shoulder to carry up a set of stairs. I don't know what I did to it but, I struggled the whole summer pulling my 60 pound bows after that. It hurt too bad to do the heavy recurve. I got it out two weeks ago and, can once again breeze it back and, hold it for quite a while now with no pain.

I reckon I could go on and shoot it like I did last year. But, I had this stellar realization about a week ago. Was it the hardwood flooring or the fact I had weakened my shoulder shooting the heavy bow? Since I have been doing manual labor for my whole life, I just can't make myself believe it was the work. It had to been the heavy bow. And, since a 77 pound recurve is likely as hard to pull and harder to hold, then any 120 pound compound, you had better ponder it a bit too.

Good luck. We all aren't the same. You might do this forever and never see much effect. The odds are against you doing so. Know that once you have truly hurt your shoulders, no surgery in the world will make them as good as they were. God bless.

14-Jan-16
"Even after all the heavy bows I shot, the workouts pulling my heavy bows, the competitions I entered, I never had a shoulder injury. I did tear a rotator cuff getting run over by a horse in 2006 in my right shoulder, and the same year tore something in my left shoulder splitting wood. Took me two years to comb my hair without two hands (I didn't do surgery, just therapy) and had to drop my draw weights to 64#. I am slowly getting back to drawing the heavier bows again, but at 55 I probably won't hunt with a 86# bow again."

Shoulder injuries are almost always a "straw-that-broke-the-camels-back" type scenario. A little too much for the anatomy over time does the damage and the final injury is blamed, whether it was at fault for 1% or 99% of the result. Usually, the offending injury is 1%.

Just like the tree root that breaks open the boulder. Just a tad too much pressure over time results in the same break as a much bigger insult all at once.

FWIW, my dad's last bow had a draw weight of 80 lbs. I could draw and shoot it accurately back when I was shooting 8000 arrows a year. I shoot a 52 lb compound. I pass through deer and elk without an issue. I could draw heavier, but there's no reason to. I'm certainly not built like the OP and certainly can't draw and shoot his bow, but I'm certainly not going to rely on an extra 20 lbs of draw wt to help me kill an animal. If my shooting is not up to snuff, I practice more till it's where it needs to be.

To the OP, I'm sure you can draw it and I'm sure you're built like Justin Tuck and draw a heavy bow like he does. But you're a young man and after taking care of many young and old men, what I've learned is that young men make mistakes that old men warn against and they often involve stories of bravado and machismo.

Your bow is a neat thing. An anomaly. A parlor trick. It's not necessary to kill anything. There's a good chance that it's harming you.

Have fun with it. I hope you don't regret it later in life.

"I have large Type 2B muscle fibers"

Have you had a muscle biopsy that shows this or are you just a big guy and making this claim without any evidence beyond your size to justify what you want to believe? Be honest with yourself. And do you realize that the rotator cuff is tendon and not muscle? It tears in the tendon, not the big muscle belly. You're equating muscle size and strength with tendon invulnerability. Apples and oranges.

In fact, men with very strong upper bodies are often times more prone to rotator cuff/shoulder injuries because of their rounded shoulders due to strong chest muscles which pull the shoulders forward which places the acromion process of the scapula in an anterior position and often creates shoulder impingement that results in shoulder tendon pathology. Physical Therapy for shoulder injuries often is focused on undoing the damage done to the shoulder by strong men with big pecs. Again, the point is, muscle bulk and strength having nothing to do with shoulder health.

Before you write me off as chalking your bow up to "compensating" like you did others, I'm going to say that that's not the case. I'm only warning you based on what I've seen from a medical stand point.

Again, your bow is a cool thing. You've accomplished something.

But I'd warn you against drawing that beast 5000 times. It'll probably harm you. As will your other bows to a lessor extent.

From: heavybows
15-Jan-16
Very nice bow what did you pay for a bow like that? I would love to order one like that. I also shoot bows from 100# to 160# longbows I also have some compound bows in100#. Marlon

From: Pete_H
15-Jan-16
Pictures? I WANNA SEE VIDEO OF THIS THING IN ACTION!!!!

Circa 1999-2000 I hunted with an 80lb Martin Fury and this thing was an absolute rocket launcher. 2419's were required for best results. 2317's seemed "too light" and GoldTip 7595's with fish-tank tubing inside (which I'd read about at the time and decided to trial) almost seemed like dry-firing.

Anyways I remember one instance when I delivered a Texas Heart Shot on a LARGE Hog at 25 yards yards with a 2419 and the broadhead poked 8 inches out the front of the boar's throat. Wrt this thread: you could no doubt achieve similar penetration on a Cape Buff, ALRIGHT!!!

From: Matt Rehor
15-Jan-16
How far can you accurately shoot this bow? Very interesting.....

15-Jan-16
I can understand wanting to set records, and that's fine. But you state you don't like high let off bows. Wouldn't it be possible for some one to make you custom cams, wheels for 25% let off like in the old days?

From: BTM
15-Jan-16
"Good luck. We all aren't the same. You might do this forever and never see much effect. The odds are against you doing so. Know that once you have truly hurt your shoulders, no surgery in the world will make them as good as they were."

Yep. More than a few older guys at our range say they wish they hadn't pulled so much draw weight when they were younger.

From: Lucas
15-Jan-16
Is there a record for the heaviest compound drawn? The bows in Guinness have all been trad bows.

From: Huntcell
15-Jan-16
Biggest Miss labeled thread title so far tis year "Worlds Most Powerful Production Bow!" And then starts out to describe "Custom bow". funny stuff Production means there making one after another ..... Custom is special order and that is just as you describe! Creative writing takes another hit.

From: Ironbow-cell
15-Jan-16
Idyl,

I would have to disagree that getting run over by a horse and tearing my rotator cuff had anything to do with pulling heavy bows. I had not competed in nearly 20 years and was only shooting 75-80# at the time which I handled with ease.

And it is not because I am built like a tank. I was 153# at 5'11" when I did most of my competing. I also played a lot of softball, basketball and took a 3rd place at the National Finals Karate tourney during this time. I was injured in all of those sports, but never pulling a bow. I trained right and worked up to what I did over a period of several years.

From: Ironbow-cell
15-Jan-16
Lucas,

To my knowldege the heaviest compound drawn was 242#. I watched the guy pull it twice and took the photos for the records. Fellows name was Mike Martin, we called him Moose. At 6'8" and 400+ pounds he was a beast and one of the nicest guys you would ever meet. Sadly Moose passed away years ago.

The bow was a double limb setup with custom hangers and wheels on a Jennings handle. It was built by a guy in Topeka, KS.

From: Lucas
15-Jan-16
Do the use very heavy weights in the compound flight shoots in Utah?

From: heavybows
15-Jan-16
Kevin stronger has the unlimited compound world record.

15-Jan-16
Ironbow, the fact that you tore your other shoulder splitting wood betrays the fact that you're just guessing.

My guess is based off of more than a decade of treating 100s upon 100s of shoulder injuries. Your guess is based on your singular injury.

RTCs can be torn from a singular event, but usually that is not the case. Having injured both shoulders tells me that you were wearing away at both of your shoulders and it was only a matter of time till you broke the camel's back.

Your addition of a workout regimen could also have been a problem. Typically, American men work out their chests far too much compared to their backs because they want big pectoral muscles for cosmetic reasons. The problem is that those chest muscles pull the shoulders forward into an unnatural position, sliding that acromion process forward which gets in the way when the arms are lifted forward or overhead and causes shoulder problems. Bench presses are one of the worst things you can do for your shoulders. Pulling a heavy bow is up there on the list too.

No one wants to hear that they over did it. For the average American man, it's one of the most difficult things to admit to himself.

And FWIW, many guys have messed up their shoulders shooting bows as little as 70 lbs. I've seen it first hand.

From: Ironbow-cell
15-Jan-16
Idyl,

Guessing you are an orthopedic doc? I can't be sure pulling heavy bows didn't weaken anything. Question for you. Since I could handle a 75# bow as easily as most men pull 60 (or less), wouldn' that make all archers susceptible to a shoulder injury, due to the fact we are all pulling close to our maximum?

Most guys shoot a bow that is only 10-20# less than the maximum weight they can pull. I was shooting almost 50% less than my maximum. Who would be in greater danger of a shoulder injury or wear and tear?

I am leaving this on the open forum instead of a PM in case others are interested as well.

From: Ironbow-cell
15-Jan-16
Heavybows,

How much weight has Kevin Strother pulled?

From: Lucas
15-Jan-16
Thanks Marlon, were there many people who shot that class when you attended?

From: heavybows
15-Jan-16
I've heard he has pulled a lot in a compound heard over 170# I've never met him. Not to many people ahooting high poundage bows in compound bows mostly warbows in uk. I haven't shot flight archery several years hopefully soon I can go.

From: Extremist
15-Jan-16
Try to answer all the questions.

Guinness will only hold the record for trad bows drawn to 28". I'm not sure why, but that's the answer I got. For custom compounds they say are too variable. When I suggested KE or energy, they stated that draw length would be a factor and they would have a hard time calculating in the mechanical categories like wheels, cams, Oneida style bows or what not. So right now I don't have enough "pull" (pun) to persuade them.

The muscle questions...OK. I have been tested on the % of fibers I engage when I pull. When I was competing in Armwrestling professionally there was a Dr. there that explained to me the muscle fiber make up and uses, as well as a lot more.I guess there are just some people who can access more of their fiber then others.

Yes, I know the rotator cuff is tendon. They do grow and strengthen slower then muscles, but they do grow. How do you think anyone can get stronger? Again, I was born large framed and with strong tendons and ligaments. So after years of building up, I think I am plenty capable. But I will continue to train. I do not have very large shoulders (rounded), nor a large chest. In fact I have perfect posture because my back is extremely strong.

I addressed the "compensating" statements as that, but I do understand your advice, and I thank you for it. I doubt I will shoot this bow 5000 times, but maybe a few thousand in it's lifetime is totally expected. Yes, new string and cables every year or 500 shots.

Let-off: I looked into it quite a bit. No company would machine a special cam just for me without considerable expense, and I mean 10's of thousands. It wouldn't really gain me much they said as well. Most every cam bow is regulating let-off by adjusting the back wall of a bow...so by going to more let-off actually gives you more power stroke, and a touch more speed. Yes, that extends draw length, but not much, and it's they way are built. So again, can't change that.

I draw 30" FYI.

I can shoot about 40 yards comfortably. That being said I took a deer in 2005 at 42 yards. Good shot, 70lb Mathews (custom). I just am not a 60 yard shooter. Maybe I will be someday. But the bow is more accurate then I am for sure. It has energy to kill out to 100 yards if you could shoot that well.

P.S. I might try a scope or magnifying type sight this year.

$1459.85. With heavier string and cables and rest, tuned, and shipping. I have more limbs on the way, additional cost. And they are not ready to make more until I have worked this one over pretty well. You are welcome to come shoot it if you are in Northern Indiana!

From: Extremist
15-Jan-16
Huntcell...smh..read again man. Please.

I have addressed that specifically. It is not custom, other then draw weight, and that is organic to all bows. Still, if you would nit-pic anything, the string has an extra 2 strands; does that make it custom?

So again, this is just the first of it's kind. They will and can make more. I am testing it for them. When they are satisfied, and there is more interested, they will offer it for an increased price because insurance has to cover them.

I apologize for using the word custom. This is from the factory, not modified in any way, by me or anyone else. So it is factory produced. Wording corrected.

My future bow with them will be custom. Thank you.

15-Jan-16
Have fun with your bow Extremist. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I'm just trying to caution you out of genuine concern.

Ironbow, again, maximum draw weight ability has to do with muscle strength, not tendon tensile strength or durability.

It seems counterintuitive, but the ability to draw more does not necessarily predispose you to less tendon injury. In some people it most likely does, but that's not the general rule of thumb. In fact, it can be quite the opposite since a stronger man's shoulder muscles can put more strain on a tendon than a weaker man's. Most RTC injuries I've seen have been in muscular men with repetitive use of the arms in front of the body and/or above the head. Again, one of the worst things you can do for your shoulders are bench presses. Remember, a tendon's job is to connect a muscle to a bone. A muscle's job is to pull a bone.

Tendons do not respond to weight training just like muscles do. Tendon therapy, as you noted in the PT you did for your two tears, is mostly low weight toning exercises.

Your personal anatomy is going to have a threshold where X amount of draw cycles at a given draw weight will cause you injury. That's impossible to calculate, but the fact remains, the higher you go in draw weight, the more you risk doing yourself harm, irrespective of body size.

From: Ironbow-cell
15-Jan-16
Idyl,

So in your opinion tendon strength is very similar/the same in most people where muscle strength varies greatly?

Why do some suffer lots of injuries and others doing essentially the same thing rarely or never get injured?

From: TD
15-Jan-16
Soooo.... that must mean I've had too much sex over the years.....

From: Extremist
15-Jan-16
Love you guys...

From: Dooner
15-Jan-16

Dooner's embedded Photo
Dooner's embedded Photo
"Soooo.... that must mean I've had too much sex over the years...."

"Love you guys.."

Ah..., I have to admit, I'm a little speechless here....

-----------------

Hey, Antony, glad you're still having fun pulling all that weight:-) If I were you, I'd listen to Idyl. Be careful, and work on that accuracy thing a little:-) I found a picture from our Bowsite hunt with Ken.

From: Extremist
15-Jan-16
Awesome!!! Wow, I use to be fat!!! Thanks Dooner!

Remember the Eland!?

15-Jan-16
"So in your opinion tendon strength is very similar/the same in most people where muscle strength varies greatly?"

That might be the wrong question. Often times, the strength of the tendon has nothing to do with it if it's rubbing on bone. IMO, tendon strength varies less than muscle strength, but I can't prove that; it's just my opinion. It certainly seems that strong men's tendons seem to wear out a lot more than women's and their proportionate upper body strength is generally a fraction of the average size man.

"Why do some suffer lots of injuries and others doing essentially the same thing rarely or never get injured?"

This is impossible to answer as there are so many variables.

It could be so simple as how you sleep, with your shoulders falling back, or laying on your side, etc.

Then there's personal anatomy shape, personal speed in healing, and I could go on and on.

My great-grandfather died at the age of 92 and he smoked and drank his entire life. I've personally seen multiple folks die in their 50s from smoking and drinking related cancers.

If I could answer your 2nd question, I'd be accepting the Nobel Prize for medicine because I'd have figured something out that a lot of people smarter than me have been working on for a long time.

I can't say for 100% that your bows caused or added to your injuries, just like I can't say for 100% that the OP will be injured by his super-bow. All I can do is state the odds and that's what we often do in medicine since we can never be sure. The thing is, so long as you go with the odds, you're usually right.

We have a saying in Medicine: If you hear hooves outside, assume it's horses and not zebras. In other words, go with the odds first and you'll probably be right. If someone has a fever in America, it's more likely to be strep throat than malaria.

Odds say that most RTC injuries are cumulative trauma injuries. Odds say that the heavier the bow you draw, the more likely you are to sustain a shoulder injury over time. I can make that claim and be correct more than 1/2 the time.

You can make any claim you want about your own personal shoulder injuries, but if you go against the odds, you're probably wrong.

Swinging an ax shouldn't snap anything in the body.

From: heavybows
15-Jan-16

heavybows's embedded Photo
heavybows's embedded Photo
Athony when will you recieve your 120# limbs? I have my old monster 4 runner and my gorilla compound bow. I have some limbs to finish them they go on my 4 runner don't know how heavy they are.

From: Extremist
16-Jan-16
Not sure on the 120 limbs yet. Busy beating up the ones I got first. And they want data, so I have to accumulate that before proceeding up, up and away...

I am working with them to change the cam material first. I don't know how they get away using 6061 still, but apparently the diameter of their smaller cams does not necessitate the use of stronger alloys, like you see in the massive cams of the other top bows.

This actually brings up a few good points I have to say I've noticed since getting this bow.

1. Smaller cams require less limb torque; mechanical advantage 101. So the stress on the axles, bearings, cam itself (material strength and hardness requirement), axle pin, limb pockets and bolts and receptive threads (dependent on bow), and therefore on the riser itself, are all reduced. 2. The thinner limbs and smaller cams weigh less; well the whole bow weighs less. 3. Less mass = faster acceleration? 4. Room for improvement.

I am asking myself why do other speed bows like PSE and Mathews and Bowtech require such large cams? The idea, or as they have stated, is this provides greater string travel-ability for higher mechanical advantage and speed, such as the "slingshot affect". They state efficiency as well. Well then how the heck does APA do it? I mean the cams are not old egg cams or wheels, but they are nothing more then a more modern and slightly larger version of the hatchet cams of yesteryear. And if this larger cams requires higher strength materials, thicker/stiffer limbs and or more mass (in both), plus stronger riser and all that to hold it, and this all adds to greater hand shock...why? Or better yet, what happens when I spec the new materials to APA and the cams get lighter and stronger, the riser gets lighter and stronger, and the moving mass decreases? Maybe I am designing the newest bow for 2017?

From: TD
16-Jan-16
From the picture seems a very reflexed riser, longer limbs than what many are running because of that and the pic looks to be just parallel at full draw. Can run smaller cams when you add all that up.

Short parallel or beyond limbs need large cams as limb travel is minimized. That's my theory.... just an opinion unless you have a theory....

But then I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in years.....

From: Extremist
16-Jan-16
At first I was like...what? But I understand where you are coming from. No, the limb length does not affect the cam, but rather the cam affects the limb. That being said, it's still almost not relevant. A manufacturer can choose longer limbs for more preload to create more consistent pressure on the cam. Shorter limbs are stiffer, but that's at the same thickness, so they can choose either.

A larger cam is nothing more then a larger cam. The difference between the advantage created by the buss cable on the back of the cam and the string take-up track on the front dictate required pressure from the limb. So, if you have a greater advantage of the cam (in size for slinghot affect, and cable/string track), then a stronger pressure needs to be applied. This can be done with thicker limbs or shorter. Shorter has the advantage of lighter and narrower bow I guess. But then again, this anecdotal evidence doesn't seem to present itself...so again, I am at a loss.

From: rlsmith1
19-Nov-19
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but this is awesome and I just found it... Did you ever get your 120lb limbs?

From: Jaquomo
19-Nov-19
I think Extremist is recovering from double shoulder replacement and can't get on the internet.

From: Beav
19-Nov-19
If I pulled poundage like that I would need my butthole tucked back in as well as double shoulder surgery!

From: Twinetickler
19-Nov-19
Haha no doubt I'd rooster in my shorts trying to pull that weight

From: Scar Finga
19-Nov-19
What a great old post!!!

Man this is too funny! He sounds just like an iron worker I knew that never fell and refused to wear fall protection, because at certain heights he didn't have to! The last time I saw him he fell 22 feet and crushed his skull on a concrete slab. Died right in front of us! So much for I have been doing this for 30 years and never been hurt.... Sometimes bad stuff happens, and our bodies pay the price! Enough said?

I was extremely strong for my size when I was young, and now at 51 I am paying for some of the dumb stuff I did!

Listen to the old folk guys!

From: drycreek
19-Nov-19
X2 Scar. I used to think I was indestructible, hah, little did I know what fifty more years would bring.

From: GF
19-Nov-19
English War Bows were #140-#160 and this guy “Extremist” thought he was a Big Deal shooting a #120 Compound???

ROFLMSAO

But I have to say that I see a bright side here, which is that based on one of Ike’s posts, I should be able to look forward to relatively healthy shoulders for a while yet… Because I have never sported any surplus whatsoever when it comes to pectoral muscles!

From: timex
19-Nov-19
I did floor covering work mostly carpet for 25 years & back then I was pretty tough of course I'm paying for it now but I shot 80# compounds for 30 years. but never any heavier couldn't imagine

19-Nov-19
I just edited a 3 year old post for a spelling error...

From: bowhunter24
21-Nov-19
That's funny Idyll. I had to start shooting 50 lbs last year because of shoulder surgery, might have been from shooting 70 for 20 plus years.

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