My 9 year old daughter got a Stroeger 20 Guage Side x side for her birthday in 3" chamber. Unfortunately, it only came with an C and M choke tube. She wants to turkey hunt with the gun as a result I am trying to figure out the right chokes.
I believe from research any Winchester style choke tube will fit, but with a side by side can we use a typical turkey choke that extends beyond the barrel? My gut says no.
Also we were practicing and had some 3" shells and some 2 3/4 shells. We used up the 3" shells but on the very first 2 3/4 the break action got locked shut and would not clear. I have to disassemble the gun to clear the shell by taking forearm off etc. Is there something I may have missed?
Also do they make a reduced load turkey ammo that she could use for less kick. She did not like the 20 guage 3" loads, but they can work.
I wouldn't allow my kid to do the patterning, etc. Too easy for awful habits to develop.
I'd expect that the choke tubes would have to interfere with each other before you'd have anything to worry about, but to Jim's' point, a modified choke and a load of lead sixes at 25-30 yards is probably going to pattern just fine. She's a new Hunter and (JMO) there are few things that take as much enjoyment out of it (especially for a newcomer) as getting a cripple, so why not call the bird into bow range and fog him out? Lots less pressure on the kid to be real accurate and probably a less gory trophy as well.
One other thought.... I have NEVER, EVER heard of a break-action gun jamming or locking up. I'd see a gunsmith before I did ANYTHING.
I wouldn't allow my kid to do the patterning, etc. Too easy for awful habits to develop.
I'd expect that the choke tubes would have to interfere with each other before you'd have anything to worry about, but to Jim's' point, a modified choke and a load of lead sixes at 25-30 yards is probably going to pattern just fine. She's a new Hunter and (JMO) there are few things that take as much enjoyment out of it (especially for a newcomer) as getting a cripple, so why not call the bird into bow range and fog him out? Lots less pressure on the kid to be real accurate and probably a less gory trophy as well.
One other thought.... I have NEVER, EVER heard of a break-action gun jamming or locking up. I'd see a gunsmith before I did ANYTHING.
There are a lot of misconceptions about shotguns. One of them is that a 20 gauge has less recoil than a 12. I see a lot of parents introduce the kids to the shooting sports using 20 gauges and then loading them up with magnum shells. I bet your stoeger has a hard plastic recoil pad, add the 3" shells and it kicks like a mule.
The 12 gauge has a much wider variety of shells available, from very low recoil 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 magnums, so shooting a 12 gauge does not mean heavy recoil. It also means you can use it for many kinds of shooting
I don't want to sound mean but I wish your 9 yr old was not shooting this gun. She will never forget how hard this thing kicks. The best shotguns for low recoil are the autos. The way they are designed, much of the recoil is taken up in the mechanics of the gun. The Barettas and Benellis are great autos and they come in youth models, they can cycle low recoil ammo with no problems.
As far as chokes go, most people seem to use full chokes on turkeys. I would encourage you to get some cardboard and draw a 30" circle on it, with a dot in the center. Step back to 30 yds and shoot at the dot with the modified choke. This will give you an idea how many pellets are in your 30" pattern. If you see big holes in the pattern, go to a tighter choke. Remember as you go tighter the pattern gets smaller and the shooter needs to be more precise.
coelker make sure whatever she shoots fits her. The stock may be too long and need cutting down, or she may not be looking down the middle of the barrel. These are important details and any gunsmith can help with this.
Hope this is not too technical, but it is important to start them off on the right foot.
Good luck with the turkeys and the shotgun
Safety issue solved. As far as fit, the stock has been cut and reduced and modified to take a benelli style recoil reduction tube.
I was looking at the Hevi-Shot Magnum BlandRecoil Reduction.
I was hoping to take what I have and make it as good as possible. She has shot a lot but has not handled the lager size of a shot gun much.
I will have her shooting light bird loads for practice. After shooting last time she is looking forward to next time and that was with 3" loads and before the recoil reduction tube.
For what's it's worth, my boy took a tom at 29 yards last year with 3" #5 and modified choke.
When it's time to hunt, load it with the 3 in mag shells.
Keep the shot to 30 yards or less.
Once she squeezes the trigger on a bird, she won't notice the difference.
Good luck, and when she kills a bird, post the pictures.
Regardless of what length shotshells she can handle, I'd go buy at least a "F" or full choke tube, or maybe even a Full, and Extra Full choke tubes for turkeys. You want the tightest pattern you can get, especially in a 20 gauge...
-- If you need tighter than the current tubes will get you, remember you can go to steel shot and it will be tighter. So will most "hevi" materials.
-- Winchester makes a 2 3/4" buffered load of 1 1/8" 7 1/2 that carries more than enough wallop to 30 yards.
-- The #7 hevis sound perfect.
-- Great hearing protection does a lot to combat flinching. With most kids that's foam plugs, plus muffs when shooting targets.
-- Any target that shows a physical reaction to the shot also takes their mind off of recoil (never call it kick). A pop can is about the size of a turkey's head and part of the neck, and placed on a stick it will fly quite a ways when shot. Kids love to count the pellet holes, too.
-- If you're going with 3", you should be able to go with a 2 3/4" trap load of #8s and get about the same pellet count for practicing.
-- Pattern both barrels to make sure they impact the same location on a patterning sheet.
-- A 20 gauge can make a great turkey gun. Both of my kids did their Grand Slams primarily with 20s, my daughter completely. Son's 870 youth, with an extended choke, is death to 35 yards. I've carried it on many turkey hunts since he's moved to his 12. I've killed 8-10 with it, and probably 8-10 kids have killed their first with it, too.
-- For about the pat 12 or so years Rob Keck, guy who really got NWTF going strong and one of the three best turkey hunters I've ever had the education to hunt with, has used a little 20 semi auto and the hevi shots. He's good to 40 yards, though seldom shoots past 20...he's that good.
-- Have fun and involve your daughter in all of the decisions. My kids remember as much about all of the prep, and fun, getting ready for their first seasons as the birds they killed.
Started with a 20 gauge and then moved to a 12 guage.
I sighted in both guns before taking her out.
For the 20 gauge, I used the factory choke. For the 12 gauge, I used my tight turkey choke.
She only shot a few light loads while sighting in. I put in the larger shells when hunting and she never noticed the difference.
Another tip: I bring a tripod with a gun saddle on it. That way, the gun is very stable and she can aim accurately and easily. Even at 20 yards, I think it is way to hard for a small child to hold up a heavy gun and keep it steady.
I bought the Shoot N See turkey targets for her to practice and will be using some 2 3/4 loads for her practice.
She always shoots off a set of sticks, but even with sticks the gun is a little heavy and hard to move. As a result I am looking at a tripod and rifle groove top for better stability.
I will keep you all posted. We ran out of time this spring so turkey hunting is happening now, but she realizes she is not ready yet.
Modified is a great choke for beginners and anyone who vows to shoot only the birds that actually commit to the decoy. There's no need to get crazy with choke tubes.
Make certain to pattern the load with the gun and tube you will use. Each perform different. Good luck.
Makes me wonder, though.... Since trajectory is not usually an issue for shotgunners and since pellet deformation degrades pattern consistency, would a reduced powder charge and a big load of #5 or #6 lead pellets hit the sweet spot for recoil & knockdown???
And one other thought... Does that Stoeger have a barrel selector? You could experiment with tubes and loads and maybe come up with one barrel for up close and the other for farther out. Just gotta make sure you're keeping track of which is which...
Personally I wouldn't shoot at a turkey with anything smaller than #4 birdshot... Have had bad turkey experiences with both #5's and #6's...
Shhhhh, don't tell anybody but number 4 buckshot is just plain freakn MEAN... It'll crumble a 25 pound gobbler on the fly like feather dusting a blackbird with a blast of #8's... Believe me, I'm talkn graveyard dead... With turkeys, after #4 birdshot, my backup shot is always #4 buck... Read your regs though, cause I don't think it legal in all states...
I've seen a few hundred shotgunned, and shot size doesn't have as much to do with things as shot location.Most where shot with fives or sixes.
Fours out of a 20 gauge sure don't give much pattern density. Generally, the more open the choke and/or smaller the gauge, the smaller the pellets so you have that density.
One year I was in on 25 kills in five states, and the average shooting distance was around 18 yards. The joy is seeing how close you can get them, not how far.
I've seen them crippled when body shot with about anything, if it's past 20 yards. One of my best-spurred birds had breast and thighs coated with a load of #2s.
We live in shotgun country, and have seen many fall birds folded like a clean pair of socks by pheasant or duck loads. I have buddies who do better than 90-percent of hunters with a 28 gauge and 7 1/2 on wild pheasants and prairie grouse. The key is where, and how well you hit them.
As an old Scotsman told me, "...hit 'em in the head, the ass dies instantly."
Keep us posted coelker....
3" number 4 buck 12 gauge is 41 buffered .24 caliber projectiles traveling over 1200 FSP... Buck don't cripple, it crushes...
But as said, there are 2 trains of thought for head shots, 7 1/2's or 4's, when it comes to firearms, usually, bigger is better for me... Personally, there is no way I'd shoot 40 yards with 7 1/2s at a turkey, only asking for cripples, there isn't enough energy in those itty bitty pellets at that range... Think of arrow penetration and arrow weight... But, we could go on and on...
My dad got me a 20g youth gun with a modified choke when I was 10. I killed my first deer with it using a slug. The deer was at 40 yards. 32 years later, my 8 year old took his first turkey with the same gun this weekend. The gun only chambers 2 3/4 with M choke. The decoys were set 15 yards from the blind, the bird came right to them, and he hit the bird in the head and killed it instantly.
I would look for a full choke and keep your shots to within 30 yards.
Have fun.
TBB
It's all in the type of shot you use and it's density. Can't be bought in a store. It's all hand loaded.
A properly patterned 20 gauge is a great turkey weapon. Also, a 2 3/4" turkey shell, shoots harder than a 3 inch. More room for powder.
Lot's of misconceptions involving gauge and, shell lengths in turkey shells. The only thing the 20 gives up is the amount of pellets to reach the same velocity as a 12 gauge. And, if you get it shooting right, that isn't a concern. God Bless
As far as ammo and choke: We wanted as much shot as possible. With lead we used a cheap Undertaker choke tube and 3" #6. 30 yards was about the limit as far as pattern goes with lead. The best patterning ammo/choke combo has been a jellyhead choke and #7 Hevi Shot. It will stomp a turkey head to 35 yards pushing 40 all day long. I suspect that #7 federal HW will perform well also.
#4s are likely not going to perform well as far as pattern goes. Someone should have told the thousands of birds killed to 40 yards with #6s annually that they don't work. If I was going to #7s Id go high density and you'll have no problems. In the majority of states #4 buck is illegal and some have "no smaller than" limits as well. Shotgunning turkeys is solely a head shot game.
Buffalo1's Link
When you are shooting anything with a shotgun it's not pellet size that matters but weight of each pellet strike along with # of pellet strikes.
You can't simply decrease your shot size to increase your lethality unless you go to a higher density shot at the same time.
Lead (11.1 g/cc) is more dense than steel (7.9 g/cc) Hevi-shot (~12 g/cc) is more dense than lead TSS (18 g/cc) is more dense than Hevi by 50%.
I have never shot a turkey past 30 yards but I find it interesting to piddle with this.
So you could shoot hevi or lead or TSS. I wouldn't shoot steel unless I really reduced my range. There are a lot of folks killing gobblers with .410.
Shooting the TSS the 9s or 8x9s are a popular load and gets the pellet count really up there.
All that said, my son hunts with the factory full in his 20 with 5 shot. We keep his shots to 20 yards.
Patterning turkey loads is a miserable experience. I usually feel like someone has rapped my head with a hammer and my brain is bouncing off my skull.
Question with TSS, haven't had time yet to research, but can you use tight restricted chokes with TSS or do you need to more open chokes as with steel?...Thanks
Our son shot limits of doves with his when he was 9, and eventually hundreds of ducks and big geese.
All these years later, he'll tell you his shooting percentages were higher back then with the tiny 20 rather than his big magnum 12.
My own Rem. 11-87, shooting a 3" shell, does very well with a .682 choke. It's a custom Sumtoy choke, but I've read that standard Rem chokes and Carlsons in the same approx dia do very well too.
I don't bowhunt for turkeys and really don't see me doing so anytime soon as I really enjoy gun hunting for them. If you want to learn a ton of info on TSS shot, look up the Gobbler Nation website.
My 6 year old daughter killed 3 turkeys this year with her .410 Mossberg mini bantam using 2.5 inch 6s. Each shot was about 20 yards and dropped em all dead.
Too much recoil will cause her to flinch and miss. Shooting and hunting should be fun not painfull.
good luck hope she has a lot of fun
check out this article- my 7 year old went to Nebraska last year and killed 3 toms, and this year he shot 2 toms, with the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 2 3/4" that's listed as the last one in the article.
We limit shots to 30 yards. Never had a problem, just pattern it with your chokes. Hes is using a Remington 870 with an Undertaker Turkey Choke. Hes 50 lbs soaking wet and does fine with it.
In the top barrel, I shoot 3" Federal Mag-Shot Heavyweight #7's with Flitecontrol wad through a modified choke. This choke patterned the best with the factory chokes (C, IC, M, IM & F). I have patterned it and it is a 40 yard load in my gun. The Flitecontrol wad makes all the difference.
In the bottom barrel, I shoot any of the low brass #6's through an improved cylinder choke. This is my up close and personal barrel.
