QuietKat all-terrain e-bikes
Mathews Halon 6 tuning help
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Cheesehead Mike 27-Feb-17
Brotsky 27-Feb-17
Trophy8 27-Feb-17
Helgermite 27-Feb-17
Cheesehead Mike 27-Feb-17
Bowfreak 27-Feb-17
Hawkeye 27-Feb-17
Hawkeye 27-Feb-17
Cheesehead Mike 27-Feb-17
Hawkeye 27-Feb-17
Cheesehead Mike 27-Feb-17
Bowfreak 28-Feb-17
APauls 28-Feb-17
olebuck 28-Feb-17
Brotsky 28-Feb-17
Cheesehead Mike 28-Feb-17
joehunter8301 28-Feb-17
Scooby-doo 28-Feb-17
Cheesehead Mike 28-Feb-17
Bowfreak 28-Feb-17
Brotsky 28-Feb-17
Scooby-doo 28-Feb-17
Cheesehead Mike 22-Mar-17
Brotsky 22-Mar-17
Scooby-doo 22-Mar-17
Cheesehead Mike 26-Jul-18
Cheesehead Mike 26-Jul-18
Cheesehead Mike 26-Jul-18
Cheesehead Mike 26-Jul-18
Cheesehead Mike 26-Jul-18
Hawkeye 26-Jul-18
x-man 26-Jul-18
Bowfreak 26-Jul-18
Wild1 16-Oct-18
carcus 16-Oct-18
Cheesehead Mike 16-Oct-18
TD 16-Oct-18
Wild1 17-Oct-18
Wild1 17-Oct-18
Helgermite 18-Oct-18
27-Feb-17
I’m hoping some of the Bowsite bow tuning gurus can give me some advice on tuning my 2016 Mathews Halon 6.

This is the first bow that I have shot in many years that I have not been able to get fixed blade broadheads and field points to group together. I’ve made numerous left and right adjustments on the rest but broadheads always impact to the right of the field points. Granted, I haven’t shot many bows lately because I shot the same Mathews MQ1 for 18 years and it was very simple to tune. However, I have helped friends tune their bows and have always been able to get broadheads and field points to group together. I shoot the Halon very well and last summer I was shooting good field point groups out to 100 yards. I hate to admit it but late last summer I finally gave up and adjusted my sight to move my broadheads into the bullseye.

I was shooting quite a bit over the weekend and doing some tweaks to my rest. The closest I could bring the groups together at 20 yards was the broadheads hitting about 2” right of the field points. The broadheads are about 4” right at 30 yards.

Here are some specs:

28.5” draw, 70 pound, right hand Mathews Halon 6.

QAD Ultrarest

27” Easton FMJ 400 with 3 Blazer vanes fletched right helical. Total arrow weight with 100 gr. head is about 416 grains.

The broadheads I’ve been shooting (all 100 gr) are: Slick Trick Magnum, Slick Trick Standard, Shuttle T, Wasp Boss and Wasp Hammer SST. All of these broadheads group well together but they all impact right of field points.

I’ve been shooting the Halon maxed out on poundage since I got it. I checked it on my Cabela’s deer scale over the weekend and it indicated 75 pounds. I’m not sure how accurate that is.

I watched a few YouTube videos on tuning the Halon and on one of them the guy was using 300 spine arrows because he said that he has figured out that Mathews bows like stiff arrows. I suspect that arrow spine might be contributing to my problems so I backed the bow off 2 full turns, which I believe should have dropped the poundage about 8 pounds. Backing the bow off didn’t seem to make much difference.

I realize that I’m pushing the envelope and may be underspined with the 400 FMJ’s and I’m thinking about buying some 340 or 300 FMJ’s but I’m hoping to get some advice before doing so.

I should also note that the bow was paper-tuned at the shop when I bought it but I have moved the rest around since then trying to bring broadheads and field points together. Also, I did the “French Tuning” thing with a field point arrow and was hitting the string perfectly both at 9 feet and 9 yards but that didn’t help bring the broadhead and fieldpoint groups together.

Any help is greatly appreciated before I go back to the old MQ1...

Thanks!!!

From: Brotsky
27-Feb-17
Mike, I would definitely try the 340 FMJ. I used to shoot a 28.5" arrow out of a Mathew's Switchback at 65# and it liked the 340 over the 400. I would definitely think your Halon would as well. Even backed off I think you are over-spined. Try out a 340 and see how it goes.

From: Trophy8
27-Feb-17
Hand tourque. Good indicator is your shots are consistent

From: Helgermite
27-Feb-17
Mike, I had the same problem with my Halon 6. The shop that did my tuning absolutely got my BH and FP to hit the exact same spot. The owner of the shop actually shot a Robin Hood at 20 yds with a FP into the BH shaft. As soon as I started shooting, the BH hit right. I changed my release which was a "hook" style and went to a caliper style...my problem was solved. My guess is the "hook" style gave the back of the arrow a slight push to the left which steered the BH to the right. I tried going back to the "hook" style and the problem returned.

27-Feb-17
Thanks guys.

I'm relatively certain I don't have hand torque. I've been very conscious of it and made sure that I was not torqueing and hand torque has never been a problem for me in all the years I've been shooting.

I shoot a caliper style release and I've been very careful to make sure that no part of my hand other than my trigger finger makes contact with the release.

From: Bowfreak
27-Feb-17
Mike,

As Brotsky stated, I think your arrow shaft is too weak. Take 3 full turns off your bow and shoot to see how it responds. If it cleans up your issue you have the answer and can move to a .340 or stiffer spine.

If that doesn't correct your issue completely you need to move your top hats moved around. You can effectively shim the cams in the direction they need to go which in this case would be away from the riser (assuming you are right handed). A broadhead right means a left tear and you shim in the direction of the tear.

From: Hawkeye
27-Feb-17
Mike, I bet if you shot through paper, you would get a left tear. In saying that, you can do one of two things.

You can move the rest TO THE RIGHT and see if they come together...not the left.

Second, and likely would be best, is to have the shop switch the spacers on the cams. This is equivalent of YOLK TUNING THE BOW.

If you had yolks, which we don't with the Halon, you would twist the left yolk to bring the BH toward the FP.

That basically SHORTENS the string and moves the cam TO THE LEFT. If the shop can put the thinner spacer on the left and the thicker on the right, this will move the cam LEFT and be just like twisting the left yolk.

This will bring them together and you can move the rest to fine tune from there.

From: Hawkeye
27-Feb-17
Beat me to it Mark!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

27-Feb-17
Thanks Mark and Eyad!

I have tried moving the rest in both directions and I have not been able to get the broadheads closer than about 2" right of the field points.

I'll back the bow off another turn and see what happens.

If that doesn't do fix it I'll take it to the shop and have the top hats switched around.

I suppose it's possible that it's a combination of weak spine and needing to switch the top hats...

Thanks again guys!

From: Hawkeye
27-Feb-17
You bet and keep us posted :)

27-Feb-17
Well I backed my bow off another turn tonight and had a few minutes to shoot some arrows before it got dark and low and behold my field points and broadheads grouped together! Some of the broadheads even hit left of the field points. I still need to do some fine tuning but I think I'm on the right track.

Thanks guys I appreciate it!

Looks like I need to buy some new arrows. Any reason why I shouldn't go with 300's vs. 340's other than they're heavier?

From: Bowfreak
28-Feb-17
300s will work fine Mike. I tend to lean that way as I like heavier arrows and it gives you more options running heavy point weights. You have many options on arrow choice and could build arrows from 400-600 grains depending on shaft choice and inset/point weight and fletch choice.

Just for comparison I run a GT velocity 300 (both Pro and XT) with a 20 gr. insert weight and a 125 gr BH. They are about 30" long (don't know the exact length off hand) and they weight 456 gr.

I really like that cam system on the Halons. I still am sticking with cam and 1/2s but if I were to switch it would be to that system. While there are no yokes, you can do the same thing with the top hats. The advantage of the top hats is that once you have them shooting perfect, the only thing that changes when you change strings is your nock set position. Once that is set properly you are rocking again. With a yoke, you yoke tune with every new set of strings or as strings/cables creep.

From: APauls
28-Feb-17
Well sounds like you've got it figured out. I was going to say that's the exact same problem I had with a Switchback when my arrows were overspined. Both groups just wandered around together no matter which way I moved my rest. Changed arrows and perfect once again. Sounds like arrow spine was your quandary as well. In my case I had been shooting 400's for years with no issues and decided to go to 340's for whatever reason on a 27.5"draw 65 lbs. Went back to 400 and all problems solved. Talk about giving yourself a headache for nothing lol.

From: olebuck
28-Feb-17
you are defiantly under spined - as you have figured out by turning your weight down.

i shoot the 70# 28" draw and i shoot a .300 spine - but i do shoot heavier broad heads. and 525 grain arrows.

in a hunting bow i always lean towards the stiffer arrow, they are usually heavier and more forgiving. its hard to shoot to stiff of an arrow from a hunting set up.

From: Brotsky
28-Feb-17
I'd lean towards the .300's as well. That's what I'm going with on my Xpedition at 70#'s and it shoots lights out. Glad you figured it out Mike!

28-Feb-17
Thanks guys, I'm going to order some .300 FMJ shafts and see how they do.

I knew I was pushing the envelope if not underspined with the 400's and it will be nice to know that I have the option of going to a 125 gr. head now and the bow will be more forgiving.

I appreciate all the help!

28-Feb-17
Yea way underspined for sure. I was having this issue with my elite but I shoot 340 spine arrows. I started shooting with bare shaft and once I got a bareshaft to fly straight and impact in same spot with fletched fp I was golden. Try that. The difference was on the elite I have a cable rod that I can actually adjust the position it sits and that helps with playing with cam lean. Once I found the money spot it was golden. Try the stiffer shaft and then bare shaft

From: Scooby-doo
28-Feb-17
If your shaft is only 27"s then you are not weak. I know I will take a beating for this but that is why I refuse to shoot a split limb bow. I know supposedly the issue with tuning them has been solved but I do not believe it. I shoot perfect holes thru paper with 67# Mathews ZXT at my 27.5" draw with a 27.5" .400 spine with 175 grains of point weight. My broadheads hit with my fields points out as far as I can be accurate, which is about 70 yards for me. Scooby

28-Feb-17
Yes my arrows are exactly 27" from the nock string groove to the end of the arrow with no tip. According to the arrow chart I am not underspined but my groups seem to indicate otherwise.

For what it's worth, my old 29" draw Mathews MQ1 at 74# groups broadheads and fieldpoints together on the FMJ 400's out to at least 60 yards but that bow is a heck of a lot slower than the Halon.

I just found and bought 5 new 28" FMJ .300's fletched with Blazer vanes on eBay so it will be a relatively small investment to experiment...

From: Bowfreak
28-Feb-17
Scooby....the results absolutely indicated it was a weak shaft.

The bow being a split limb model has nothing to do with it and there never was a tuning issue with split limb bows.

From: Brotsky
28-Feb-17
I have noticed a lot of the spine charts are weak for real world applications on newer cam systems and past parallel limbs. I let the bow and arrow combo tell me where I need to be using the spine chart as a reference.

From: Scooby-doo
28-Feb-17
Results may show that but it is not the arrow. Do any of you actually own a spine tester. If you have one that reads e more then deflection but gives actually spine poundage numbers you will see a .400 spine 55/75 shaft actually spines upwards of 80#s depending on exact brand. Manufacturers do not want to be sued so they actually make it so that one can shoot a shaft at the upper limit of their recommendations. Just saying, he is not under spined by cutting that arrow below 28"s it was just stiffened up quite a bit as well. Scooby

28-Feb-17
Brotsky, I agree. I contacted Goldtip CS since they were the only chart that showed my setup needing a stiffer spine. They said most of the other arrow manufacturers have not updated for the newer bows. Not sure how true but the ones I checked with all had me under spine compared to GoldTips chart.

22-Mar-17

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Here's an update on my situation.

I bought five new 28" FMJ 300's off of eBay and stripped the straight fletched Blazers off of them and re-fletched them helical with Blazers.

I backed my bow one turn below max, so probably about 68#. I shot numerous groups with field points and broadheads and made numerous adjustments to the rest but still could not get the groups to come together.

I took my bow back to the shop and they laid a straight edge on my top and bottom cams. The straight edge laid across my top cam lined up very parallel with my string but the straight edge laid across my bottom cam deviated several degrees from parallel with the string.

They switched the tophats on the bottom cam, which made the bottom cam parallel with the string, i.e. removed cam lean. We checked paper tune.

I shot it a few times in the shop with both broadheads and field points and it looked somewhat better so I took it home. Once I had more time to shoot at home I found out that broadheads were still hitting to the right of the field points. I tried moving the rest to the left until I ran out of adjustment and the groups never came together.

I then moved the rest quite a ways right (closer to the riser) from 13/16" and broadheads hit about 4" right of center and field points hit about 1" right of center at 20 yards. I made tiny micro-adjustments to the left with the rest and shot groups after each micro-adjustment. After about 3 micro-adjustments to the left, the field point and broadhead groups came together just left of the bullseye and I fine tuned my sight to bring them back to center.

After finally being satisfied that broadheads and field points were grouping together on the 28" FMJ 300's I decided to try the old 27" 400 FMJ's and I was pleasantly surprised to see that they grouped well too.

The attached photo is the FMJ 400's with 3 field points in the left target and 4 broadheads in the right target, shot at 20 yards. I also verified the matching groups at 30 yards. I might still have some fine-tuning to do but I think I'm on the right track.

This has been a frustrating experience and I'm happy that I think I finally have it figured out.

Thanks everybody for your help!

From: Brotsky
22-Mar-17
Looking good Mike, glad you were able to get it dialed in. Tuning issues can keep a man up at night!

From: Scooby-doo
22-Mar-17
Nice, I mentioned .400 spine in my posts. :-) Scooby

26-Jul-18

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
The huge tears are from the 400's and the smaller tears are from the 300's
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
The huge tears are from the 400's and the smaller tears are from the 300's
I thought I'd bring this thread back up and provide an update in case it saves anybody else some grief and pulled out hair.

At one point I thought I had my Halon dialed in but I really didn't. I was never able to get the broadheads to hit any closer than about 2-3 inches right of field points at 40 yards. It was probably more like 6 inches at 60 yards. I ended up just giving up and moving my sight. This was the first time I have ever done this in my life...

I did some more research this year and decided to try some bare shaft tuning with both 400 spine and 300 spine FMJ's.

The first shots through paper from about 6 feet away with the Halon that was tuned about as good as I could get it were pretty shocking!

26-Jul-18

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
The lower tears are from the Halon after switching the upper tophats and the upper holes are from the MQ1
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
The lower tears are from the Halon after switching the upper tophats and the upper holes are from the MQ1
After not being able to correct the tears I switched the upper tophats and shot some more and attempted some more adjustments. So now the tophats on both cams have been switched (the archery shop switched the lower ones last year).

I still couldn't eliminate the tears.

I did some more research and found out that Mathews sells a master Halon top hat spacer kit for $50 and I found a Facebook post where a guy uses the kit to fix an issue just like I have been having. I figured I would have to buy the kit or try to talk my shop into buying the kit and install different tophats so that my $1000 bow would shoot correctly.

In the meantime I have been questioning my form, although I have been shooting bows for 50 years and I felt pretty good about it.

I decided to pull out my old MQ1 (which groups fixed blade broadheads and field points together out to 70 yards) and shoot it through paper.

I was very pleased with the initial shots through paper with the MQ1 and with just a few minor adjustments I was able to shoot bullet holes.

26-Jul-18

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
The MQ1 doesn't even have a D loop on it, I shoot off of the string.
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
The MQ1 doesn't even have a D loop on it, I shoot off of the string.
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
MQ1 400 fmj group at 20 yards
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
MQ1 400 fmj group at 20 yards
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
MQ1 30 yard group. I was pretty tired at this point so my group isn't the best.
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
MQ1 30 yard group. I was pretty tired at this point so my group isn't the best.
Then I shot some 20 yard groups with the trusty old MQ1 with fletched and a bareshaft 400.

A little more tweaking and I was happy.

26-Jul-18

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Finally some bullet holes with the Halon!
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Finally some bullet holes with the Halon!
Shooting the MQ1 verified that my form was good and I was resigned to the fact that I was probably going to have to buy the tophat kit but I decided to first switch the lower tophats back to their original position and shoot it again.

I was shocked at the results!

The tears were much better and with a few tweaks I was able to shoot bullet holes with the 300's.

The 400's still had a tear.

26-Jul-18

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
20 yard group with FMJ 300's
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
20 yard group with FMJ 300's
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Here's a 20yd group with the 400's with the bare shaft hitting way right. I believe this verifies that the 400's are under-spined.
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Here's a 20yd group with the 400's with the bare shaft hitting way right. I believe this verifies that the 400's are under-spined.
After a few more tweaks I was shooting good fletched/bare shaft groups at 20 and 30 yards.

Last night I shot 100 grain Slick Trick Magnums, Standards, Shuttle T and Wasp Boss on the FMJ 300's at 20, 30 and 40 yards and they're grouping right with my field points. I still have some fine tuning to do but I can finally say that I have it cured!!!

Some of the irony in this whole situation is that if the archery shop would have just switched my upper tophats last year instead of the lower tophats I would have cured the issue a year ago.

I'm finally happy...

From: Hawkeye
26-Jul-18
"Some of the irony in this whole situation is that if the archery shop would have just switched my upper tophats last year instead of the lower tophats I would have cured the issue a year ago. "

Yep! top hats make tuning the Mathews pretty slick. Without them its frustrating to say the least. Good shooting :)

From: x-man
26-Jul-18
Yup, no release shooter over the age of 12 should be using .400 shafts. ;)

From: Bowfreak
26-Jul-18
LOL x-man! Glad you got it worked out Mike.

From: Wild1
16-Oct-18
Hi Guys, Please bear with me because I am a newbie in more ways than one. Being new to this forum this topic has me interested because I am super struggling with this issue right now. This is my first post here. I am in my mid 60's and I live in Malaysia. The issue is I am also new to archery. I started earlier this year with a diamond SB1 bow and started learning to shoot. I then bought recently a new Mathews Halon 32 6inch Brace 60# draw weight. I am shooting a 28inch draw length. I am using FMJ arrows cut to 29 inches long and 400 spine. I cannot stop the bow shooting to the right. I get a serious left tear through paper. I bought a bow press and a set of Mathews top hats., I now have the thinnest one in the left side and the thickest one in the right. The tear has reduced but is still significant to the left. I set the rest exactly 13/16 and the tear is still left. I tried moving the rest to the right towards the riser but still not much change but I fear that even with Blazer Vanes that if like this the risk is high that the vanes will touch the guide strings as they pass and I think that this will still kick the arrow left. So my friend in the US suggested it was the grip so I have a new grip coming. I can get 1inch groups with field points at 20 meters, I also get 3 inch groups at 50 meters. but still cannot get bullet holes. I am at a loss what to do next and this is difficult because the bow feels awesome in the hand when shot. I read from this forum it may be the arrow spine so I will order some 300 spine FMJ. I also read about torquing the bow so the new grip should help with this. What else can I do???? Thanks in advance.

From: carcus
16-Oct-18
Im loving my static yokes even more with every thread like this I see, The MQ1 has a single static yoke. Glad you got it tuned, I struggled so much with my elites, dartons, mathews chillr, then I found bowtech. The mathews cam is a darton cam, just this year darton has finally made a tune-able static yoke on their new bow, think its a spectraE, hopefully mathews follows

16-Oct-18
Wild1

I'm guessing your grip could be contributing to the problem, not the actual grip on the bow but how you are gripping it with your hand. I've discovered that the Halon is very sensitive to hand position. I've found that for most consistent results I have to drop my wrist and let the bow's grip rest against more of the palm of my hand. That's a lot more hand contact with the grip than I'm used to. I used to shoot the MQ1 with a high wrist with the bow grip only contacting my hand in the web between my index finger an thumb. But that hand position induces torque on the Halon which I could really see when I shot fixed blade broadheads. I didn't like the stock grip on the Halon and I replaced it with the $80 wood grip...

BTW, after more experimenting last summer with the FMJ 300's and 400's with different types of vanes, etc. I ended up going back to the 400's. For some reason they were more consistent. They also shot flatter than the 300's so I didn't have to change my sight tape that was set out to 120 yards for the 400's.

I'm still not 100% satisfied with the grouping of field points and fixed blade broadheads past 60 yards with the Halon. I think what it needs is more tophat tuning with some different width tophats vs. just swapping sides with the upper tophats.

From: TD
16-Oct-18
Yokes are slick to tune. Top hats are a PITA.

From: Wild1
17-Oct-18
Thanks for the responses, Yes I have to say I am quite disappointed, I understand I am not a super archer and I also realise I have a lot to learn. The Diamond SB1 was easy to shoot and had super groups. I changed to Mathews because it was supposed to be a superior bow and I really like it. Easy to draw, no vibration, but dam hard to tune it in I have found. The top hat combination cannot go any more and still left tear in paper I cannot move the rest any more without hitting the guide strings as the arrow passes and still left tear. I just cannot work it out, to the point I am thinking to let it go and sell it only after 6 months and buy something else. My 12 year old son shoots the TRX38, 50lb and he shoots perfect bullet holes every time, the bow was a breeze to set. My Halon 32 is such a pain. I have ordered a wooden grip and when that comes I hope this will settle any hand torque issues. Then if still no good I am stumped. If any one else can offer any suggestions I am only to happy to hear. Thanks again.

From: Wild1
17-Oct-18
Thanks for the responses, Yes I have to say I am quite disappointed, I understand I am not a super archer and I also realise I have a lot to learn. The Diamond SB1 was easy to shoot and had super groups. I changed to Mathews because it was supposed to be a superior bow and I really like it. Easy to draw, no vibration, but dam hard to tune it in I have found. The top hat combination cannot go any more and still left tear in paper I cannot move the rest any more without hitting the guide strings as the arrow passes and still left tear. I just cannot work it out, to the point I am thinking to let it go and sell it only after 6 months and buy something else. My 12 year old son shoots the TRX38, 50lb and he shoots perfect bullet holes every time, the bow was a breeze to set. My Halon 32 is such a pain. I have ordered a wooden grip and when that comes I hope this will settle any hand torque issues. Then if still no good I am stumped. If any one else can offer any suggestions I am only to happy to hear. Thanks again.

From: Helgermite
18-Oct-18
I always shot a high wrist grip since I began archery in the 1980s. When I bought a Halon 6, I had to do the same thing Mike did to shoot consistently. Now, with the pad of my thumb flat against the grip I shoot much better with consistently good arrow flight.

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