Nightmare guests on hunting property?
Mule Deer
Do any of you guys have idiots hunting on the same piece of private ground you hunt that you just wish you didn't have to deal with? We've had a pretty good thing going with mule deer and elk on my family's piece of ground in southern Utah for quite awhile now, but for the past few years we've had some less immediate family members thinking that they wanted in on the action. It's always kind of rubbed me the wrong way because while me, my brother, my dad, my uncle, and my brother-in-law put in all the year round work these Johnny come lately's opt out of all that even though they know if is kind of expected and just show up for one week out of the year for the muzzleloader deer hunt and are starting to show interest in elk hunting. I know my dad doesn't really want them around either, but he's just a really nice and polite sort that would rather just let them hunt and deal with that BS than ruffle any feathers or cause any hard feelings in the family. The last couple years some things have been happening to really piss me off though. A cousin of mine ended up wounding two deer with his muzzleloader that he never recovered and then finally shot and recovered a third one. So basically killed off three bucks just to fill one tag. Fast forward to this year and yesterday I found out that these idiots had wandered onto a neighboring property that is leased by a paying customer and shot a couple bucks and were caught by some 3rd party individual. The 3rd party guy didn't turn them in, but I wish he would have. They said they didn't know they were on the wrong side of the fence and thought that it was still my family's property. One of these guys has been hunting here for 5 years now and has been shown all around so I don't buy that for one bit. They had retrieved one buck at the time that they were confronted, and then they went and found my brother in law in a hurry to tell him what happened and asked if they should just leave the second buck where it was. My blood is absolutely boiling now after hearing this! One of these hunters is a guy who just married into my family (married my cousin) and they have since gotten a divorce. I thought we would have seen the last of him, but apparently he is still good friends with his ex bro in law (my cousin) so they feel like that gives him a leg to stand on to come hunt the property. My immediate family and myself don't even really bring friends to hunt on our property these days and make an effort to keep it a family only thing. I made an effort to lay down the law and set some ground rules a few years ago with these guys and they cried bloody murder and my dad scolded me about what I had done. Yesterday my pissed off brother gave these guys an earful but my dad is growing tired of the bullshit and is starting to back us up now. Ahhh. Sorry for the vent you guys. Just needed to blow some steam. Anybody else deal with this kinda crap?
Sounds like they need to be told to stay off or heres the rules wound counts as kill and you are done and if you break any laws including trespassing you are done.Another way is to either each person work 40 hours on property or pay 4000.00 towards improvements
I'm conuised. What part of get your asse off and stay off can you not say?
Simple: That's not the way we hunt in this family. You want to hunt here, you hunt the way we do.
That's not telling them they're not welcome to hunt with you anymore; that's telling them that you do it House Rules or you do it Somewhere Else. Their choice to make.
And especially with the neighbors - these guys just can't show up for a week and wreck your dad's relationship with his neighbors for the whole year; he's got to live with the fall-out and they don't.
By now these guys know damn well they're wearing out their welcome, so it's not as if you're going to damage the relationship by speaking plainly (and calmly) about what does and does not fly on your place.
It's your Dad's place and really, his problem to settle. But he has an absolute right to do so. It's not as if you need them to thin out the herd any you can't find anybody else willing to do the "work". Heck, you might even find a volunteer or two right here!
Set expectations.
To be eligible to hunt the property everyone agrees to the following... 1. Everyone is required to do x amount of work days. 2. Drawing blood tags you out 3. Any game violations end your hunt for the year, and depending on severity longer 4. “Whatever else your dad decides”
Doing it this way doesn’t include or exclude anybody. Follow rules or you don’t get to hunt.
I have a similar view from the outside of a family ranch like this. The opposite is true though... us "outsiders" that aren't immediate see the property as a gem that should be taken care of and appreciated. The people who the land is passed down to see it as a place to party and poach. It's real unfortunate how a lot of people view wildlife.
I'd sit down and have a meeting with these guys. Voice your opinion. They're putting your paradise at risk of being turned into shit, or even lost. If you guys out number them a vote can be done and they can be barred from the property if necessary. Protecting the land and animals is far more important than relationships with disrespectful people, in my opinion.
GF is completely correct.
I'll be glad to politely and calmly deliver the message and explain that their behavior has had a negative impact on others and because of that they have lost their hunting privileges.
And I'll be willing to quietly put my tent on whatever part of the property you don't frequent so as to ensure that they don't try sneaking back on. And I'll stalk around keeping an eye on things. And I'll work to be extremely low impact, so you might not be able to tell I'm there...
Seriously though. You and your father are being too nice and are being taken advantage of. Just tell them that the trespassing issue was a problem and you also don't want additional hunting pressure on the property anymore,
I can not understand how people can behave like your cousins and friend.
Best wishes. Always tough when family is involved.
Some good advice given above. Either way, they seem to have their foot in the door and letting them stay or kicking them off could have negative consequences for you both. You could do an anonymous report on their trespasses and use that as ammo to get them kicked off permanently. Both the family and they should respect the law and the consequences of not hunting since they violated it.
Family trumps dead animals pick family...or maybe just talk to them rather than complain here.
Gotta disagree with you there, Pete - FAMILY does not abuse FAMILY. Yes, you've gotta love 'em, but you DON'T have to put up with abuse or flagrant disrespect. Maybe THEIR fathers never taught them right and Zion's dad has a little Remedial Educating to do, but it's time to do it and if the lessons won't stick, then these guys need to find another place to misbehave.
Well since they are outside relatives per say here would be how I would handle it.
If you have yet to say anything to them I would take it you do not like one on one conflict? Perhaps your over 50? just kidding!
I would call their main person. since they all show up at the same time I would bet there is a so called alpha person in these distant relatives?
I would tell him hey we have had a few issues over the last several years and the nail hit the head when you trespassed and pissed the neighbors off by trespassing on their land!
Give them your immediate families ground rules for hunting (the rules you go by) and tell them from now on it is this way. If you don't like it that is OK but you need to hunt elsewhere!
Tell them they are wounding to many deer and that's an absolute no, no in your camp! tell them if they wound one that can happen if they wound two the hunt is over!
Tell them there is ABSOLUTELY zero excuse for trespassing onto another mans property! Tell them if that happens again there will be no more coming back to hunt.
A lot of times doing this over the phone can be easier than face to face. If so do it that way.
There is absolutely no reason for you and your crew to be stressed over self invited guest.
In the end repeat the ground rules and tell them if it happens again they are done they will need to hunt elsewhere? No hard feelings but its your camps way or no way!
I bet things will be much better next year as long as you let them know of (ALLOF YOUR CONCERNS) in full detail.
Hunting camp and hunting partners is like a marriage, it sucks if there is poor communication!
Did you say it was your dad's property? I missed that part. Who actually owns the property?
I guess it's better than having CLOWNS though!
Petedrymmond. You must have all excellent family members. I have a half brother that has never stepped foot on my farm and if he does, I'll have him arrested.
Time to grow a pair and boot them off. enough said.
I was gonna ask what Ike asked. It all depends on who the actual owner is, regardless of how bad it sucks.
The trespassing onto the other property should have gotten the boot! Also it's super easy as far as wounding goes, just have a draw blood/punch tag policy.
Super simple
Like Ike said-Who is the actual property owner? A lot hinges on that fact...
I think they've already worn out their welcome! But, if no one can put their foot down to send out a formal DIS-invitation, I think the owner and his immediate family should sit down and write out a set of rules. Then haven EVERY person hunting on the property sign and abide by those rules. One instance of breaking the rules and you're out...
I've found it is easier and more enjoyable to lease separate hunting ground than to hunt on the family land that is shared with everybody else, even the cousin that thinks deer season is year round. It also worked out where Grandma was upset that my family was hunting somewhere else. When we explained to her why she let us lease her property and told everyone else it was leased out and to stay off.
Dealing with family is tough and the more remote in relation, the more difficult it is to keep people honest. I'd charge lease fees, require work days and tell everyone that memberships are under review every year by whoever is willing to administer such things. Occurrences of lawlessness, safety violations, excessive wounding, personal conduct breaches, etc. will be used to evaluate continued privileges.
Brought my nephew in on my lease a couple years ago when the land he had been hunting for years was sold. He lasted a season. Knowingly violated the rules as specifically outlined to him. Family, friends, doesn't matter. This is how we do it. You don't do it the way we want it done, see ya.
Dealing with family, and friends, after the fact is very tough. I purchased hunting land a little over ten years ago, and naturally wanted to share it with family and friends.
I assumed, incorrectly, they would hunt as I did. I try for a very low impact to not educate the wildlife. Found out most will just do what they want, either out of ignorance or just not caring.
I know this is after the fact, but for those purchasing the first time, be up front from the start what the hard rules are and that no exceptions will be tolerated. At times it seems family more than others think you will be lenient. Stick to your guns the first time and save yourself a major headache.
I live in New Jersey on 2 acres (large parcel in this state) and I wish I had your problem!
Not trying to be a dick, I feel you on the family bind that you're in. But it will work out, that type of stuff almost always has a relatively short shelf life.
Move on and get your own property or place to hunt. No hunting is worth the misery of dealing with disrespectful family members. Never stay in a bad situation, simply move on.
Damn apple, it's X2 longbeard.
As stated above, a lot hinges on who actually owns the property... That being said, I'd start off by telling your ex-cousin-in-law to take a hike... No longer family. After that, start culling out the law breakers and then move on to the "show up and hunt" group. Passive aggressiveness gets you nowhere. The true owner needs to lay down the rules and have everyone stick with them or become acclimated to being a doormat.
Damn apple, it's X2 longbeard.
Heck, I hunt public property, I clearly tell my friends not to invite others, and if I see them hunting my spots with other friends, I confront them and let them know we won't be hunting with me again. I have plenty of friends and family, I don't have enough good hunting areas.
A couple ideas for you.
First, you're behind the 8 ball since this behavior has been allowed to continue. You could make rules that all are to follow, but I'd suspect that if the offenders already show utter disregard for game laws, ie trespassing, wounding, etc, that they will also disregard your rules. They aren't going to tell you when they trespass or wound a deer.
If you charge them or require time at work parties they now have a vested interest and will take even more ownership in their stake. Won't work.
A solution that was suggested above is to tell them it has been leased to an outfitter. The landowner (Dad or whoever) was offered more than they could pass up and took the deal. Nobody gets to hunt - or that in the lease agreement only the specified # in YOUR party can hunt the place and that you guys take the spots.
Good Luck
How about grow a set, make rules for all to follow, then enforce them. Based on having the authority to do so. If you don't have that authority, have a meeting and everyone vote on the rules. Then enforce them.
Don't lie or be cowardly. Do the right thing for everyone involved. But, I find it hard to believe that anyone who owned the land would have a hard time doing this. So, I too am interested in the landowner rights. It'll be very telling I think. In guessing it's ayership.
Wvmountaineer- you just called him a coward, and to grow a set??? Wow!!!
Just a question how long have you been on Bowsite?
Good question Kelly. We get these kinds of posts occasionally from people that never really post. Then the thread will go on and on, and the OP will chime in with a remark or two to keep us going. Almost like sometimes these threads are experiments to collect data from the hunting community.
The OP does not own the property, or so it seems. It is not up to him to grow a set.
As a landowner, I think it is pretty straightforward.....Whoever is the landowner(s) sets the rules unless they have delegated that responsibility to others.
Mark
The minute they went off the property and onto the neighbor's land and shot deer would have been the opening needed to set things straight once and for all with a serious meeting. Then agree to ground rules for all to follow including helping out in the off-season and rules with wounded game, etc. If they are caught doing something not within the rules then they are no longer welcome. May be easier said than done not knowing the particular family dynamics between cousins, aunts, uncles, etc., but that is what I would do.
Kelly, I've been on bowsite for 8 years. And, i wasn't calling him a coward. I said don't act like one by telling lies
I'm not trying to be mean but, the last two months have been real educational for me regarding how men choose to handle certain things. It's been a dozey reading where anyone who'd defend their wife, confront someone trespassing, or hold someone accountable for deciding to ride their atv's all over a nondesignated wilderness area, is a loud mouth, computer keyboard tough guy. So, I admit to being a little easy to set off.
But, come on! These "How should I handle this" threads are getting juvenile. Does he want one of us to call his cousin for him? I truly don't know. It's like running home from school and telling your friends someone was mean to you at school.
I'm betting if he spent 1/10th the effort talking to his family about this problem, versus complaining about it here, the problem would be solved. But, that might lead to hurt feelings or, gasp......, physical exchange. Someone's nose might get bloody. Oh the horror.
Seriously, what would happen if he approached the trouble makers and simply confronted them and, asked them for the decency to respect the other family members? I'm betting not one foul word, one hurt feeling, or one punch would be exchanged. And, the problem would go away. How hard is that?
Some interesting thoughts posted here. If you are looking for a way to either change their behavior (good luck with that) or vote them off of the island, how about this .......have a meeting for ALL friends, family, etc interested in hunting on the property this year. Attendance is Mandatory.....no attendance, no permission to hunt. Everybody that attends, gets a card that they sign their name on (so the card is not transferable). The card states that they will abide by whatever rules you wish to implement. No card....no hunting privileges. If they show up at the mtg, have a list of the rules. Signing the card guarantees that the cardholder will abide by all rules....cardholders found violating the rules, are also voted off of the island.......This is just a rough draft of the idea, tweak it as you need to.....but it forces them to become aware of the rules and agree to them....or hunt elsewhere....which is the ultimate goal. No tickey, no washey
Sounds to me like zion is just venting and asking if he is the only one, or are others out there in a similar situation.
Didn't read anything about requesting opinions on what he should do.
Also, it sounds like it is actually his DAD's property, so he is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. Can't really "lay down the law" so to speak...........................since it is his dad's property. (UNLESS he has express permission from his father to be the "enforcer".
Just how many thousands of acres is this place? One thing for sure the poster doesnt own it or any part of it. He said his dad who must own some of it scolded him for making a big deal about other family hunters. He ought to respect his dad enough to shut up. Its not his ranch. Its not his place to criticize when he too is a guest.
So your opinion is that he doesn't want opinions? This forum serves as a sounding board. He was just venting....but I'll bet that if someone offers an idea or suggestion that he can put to use, he's free to use it. If not, all he has to do is skip to the next post.....he could even delete with editor tools if he feels it leads the thread in a direction he doesn't desire. Many times, venting on Bowsite has just started an exchange of ideas that OP's have found helpful.
If you are not happy with rules on land you do not own, go buy some land and make your own rules. I did just that and have never been happier.
It's not your land. Talk with the landowner. Obey their wishes, or you might not be hunting there.
Sounds like it is a family property owned by his immediate family (his Father and Uncle). He will probably inherit a good chunk of it when his Father is gone. I think he has every right to be disgruntled in the actions of other hunters if he is fixing fence, and repairing the property during the summer. They probably run cattle, and he is dealing with that also. I think he is "vested" enough to have a vote in whom gets to hunt on the property, and its rules. But, it is only one vote and he needs to have consensus by the other vested members. As stated in other posts, now is the time to act.
