I don't get it. If this year's bow is SO much better than last year's bow, then why did last year's bow suck?? And why did they build a bow that sucked last year?? And why is it that next year they will tell us everything is new and better and that this year's bow is really the one that sucked????
I wonder how a company judges success of a new launch. If it's 50:50 happy to disappointed is that good? LOL. Anyways, I think it looks like a pretty incredible new launch. Lots of new ideas in these bows.
I for one appreciate your community service kota. You have saved a lot of guys some cash and kept them from buying something that might not work for them. Of course....you have also caused guys to spend a lot of money on something they "need."
Kota, Yes, you sound just like my wife...Should have never introduced you guys at P&Y!...."He buys a new Hoyt ever year as a backup bow and puts new strings and cables on the 2014 primary bow" Sounds logical to me!
Lots of changes to the new Hoyts...The elimination of torqe via the new "cable guard" sounds very interesting.
This thread reminds me of one of my trips to the bow shop one year new bows were released. He swore my 8 year old Mathews was junk and the new ones were easily 60 to 80 fps faster. I said ok, let me go get it out of the truck and we would chronograph them both if the new one was actually that much faster I would purchase it but if my old one was within 30 fps then he had to give me the new one.......he got real quiet. :)
I'm sure there are many good brands of bow. But does any company come close to 1500 dry fire testing?! I hear stories of guys dry firing their bow 1x and having cracking risers, limbs, breaking cams or strings. Seriously does any other company subject their bows to similar torture tests?
All jokes aside, after finally getting to a computer to watch the promo video linked above, it looks like one REALLY nice bow. I'd love to shoot one but, $1500 is not in the budget right now. And, I'm afraid if I shot it, I might make it happen anyways. God Bless
Trial..."Yawn...4 pound carbon bows." I agree. I know hoyt carbon bows have a unique feel but for the price and the materials could they at least make it as light or lighter than aluminum bows??? My turd of a z7 weighs a hair over 4lbs but the helium checks in at 3.5lbs!
My gripe aside this new hoyt does have some intriguing features.. As well as a smoking fast cam option which would compliment my t-rex sized draw length.
One thing I will say about Hoyt, they impress with how quickly they are willing to set aside new innovations when they come up with something better. Some of it is no doubt marketing, but some of it is real innovation.
The new bows look like they’ve got some great new features and I’ll likely buy one assuming the reviews come back positive after guys begin shooting them. That said I personally don’t think there’s a whole lot of innovation in bow design compared to many other industries such as technology and software. I can’t imagine Hoyt has much of an R&D budget in comparison to revenue, at least they shouldn’t given the small fundamental design changes year over year.
So as far as brace height goes, is 6" the new 7"? IMVHO, they kind of went backwards in the performance department. Lots of new innovations to get there though. Maybe the cam is ultra smooth, which would be fantastic. But my 2010 Elite GT500 has equal or better performance than the 35" Hoyt (which is the one I'd want), weighs the same, and has 1 1/8" more brace. And I only paid $225 for it.
The Bi-Ax limb pocket and the balance point part of it is that the lower pocket sits at a different angle to raise the center point of the string at full draw so the bow doesn't feel top heavy at draw. The part with the width is just that.
If you love the 2018 line buy one new in box on Ebay next Sept/Oct. They will be about 900.00...not more than $1,000 just like the 2017s are today. You won't even miss a fall hunting season with the 2018 since you won't get one this year in time for the 2017 season anyway.
A brand new in box 2017 carbon defiant went for 811.00 this weekend....just one of many examples
"If you love the 2018 line buy one new in box on Ebay next Sept/Oct. They will be about 900.00...not more than $1,000 just like the 2017s are today. You won't even miss a fall hunting season with the 2018 since you won't get one this year in time for the 2017 season anyway. A brand new in box 2017 carbon defiant went for 811.00 this weekend....just one of many examples"
SHHHHHHH! This is what i do about every other year but if you tell anyone i wont be able to find what i want!
"The Bi-Ax limb pocket and the balance point part of it is that the lower pocket sits at a different angle to raise the center point of the string at full draw so the bow doesn't feel top heavy at draw"
This statement is confusing. So the bottom limb set/ pocket has a different take off angle than the top? Raising the center point of the string at full draw.... comparative to what, at-brace?? That would mean vertical nock travel is occurring during the draw cycle....
I don't know that I can do a 6 inch brace up here late season. We are usually wearing a ton of clothes that time of year and I've always noticed a big difference late season with a 6 inch brace. I actually don't mind a 6 inch brace for early season or 3d, but for late season hunting, it is not best case scenario for me. I think that will be a huge deterrent for me with this line up.
Elkman...Yeah, I got it. Why won't this bow be an issue? I could never use my Turbo's when the Ralphie clothes came out for the year. In the past, the difference between 6 or 7 was big with bulky clothes.
I recommend to beginners in our beloved sport to do what I do. Search till you find a 3-4 year old LNIB flag ship bow and buy it for less than 1/2 price of new. Been killing deer with last, last, last, last years technology for about 18 years now and my latest acquisition a NIB never used 50-60# 2014 Darton DS 3714 I bought last year for $370 TMD. Set at 56#'s DW I'm getting 266fps and can shoot this bow like nothing I have ever owned. I not good enough to make my living as a pro archer or pro hunter, but I have managed in the last 33 years of bow hunting to kill 27 deer 16 were bucks, so I have some level of know how. I don't understand the cost of new bows nor the need to buy a new one every year or every other year, but we are all free to spend our $$$ as we so wish. Come to think of it I am blown away at the prices of about all archery equipment save for arrows.
I could not read all of this as I am throwing up in my mouth. I will continue to shoot my 2007 Black Ice, my Mathews Drenalin and trad bows. You guys can continue to cream your panties like the Mathews boys did when the no-cam was released. But if anyone does not like their left hand "newest latest and greatest" and want to off it for a few hundred let me know.
My archery shop has open house in December with factory reps there. I'll go for the food and visiting and shoot the new Hoyt, but my will power will win. Yah right just like when I went and shot the Carbon Spider 34 at the open house for the fun of it. Shot 5 bulls with it! Surely don't need a new bow!!
The low brace is a non issue for most with a parallel limb bow. The roller guards also limit the side kick we get from a cable guard bow so the string doesn't move into the bow arm. The accuracy chatter that has gone on for 30 years has been disproven for that same 30 years. And the consumer looks at bow speed first.
Played with them again yesterday and WOW. These are just a different animal. They nailed the grip too. I've always shot side plates, but for the first time ever I will be shooting a factory installed grip.(Since side plates were factory) Amazingly narrow and just the right amount of flat back.
Bake I know what you mean. Although I have never had one get out of whack in the middle of the season. My defiant Turbo has been a pain to tune. The nitrum Turbo I used to have was a breeze. After talking with Elkman I think my tuning issues are lower cam lean related.
I do like some of the new technology hoyt has came out with this year. I don’t need a new bow however I want an easy tuner.
If your having to retune mid season I don't think it's the bow but I would guess it's the strings. I've never been a fan of factory strings. I always put after market strings on my bows and it takes away the having to re tune
Usually for me, the solution is wait a couple days and shoot again. If not that (form), I make sure it's not flyer arrows. They can be good one day and become flyers the next, IME caused by certain kinds of severe impacts. String issues are usually apparent because your peep will have rotated a bit. I've had this issue with Vapor Trail strings throughout their life, even though they are considered one of the best. But there are other potential issues. My CST developed bottom cam lean. There is no sure solution for removing bottom cam lean on a late-model Hoyt. Neither swapping limbs left to right, nor shimming were able to fix it. I can no longer get satisfactory flight out of that bow with FBBH. I will continue buying Hoyt bows (for many reasons) but IMO there are two areas Hoyt needs to catch up in....1) fixed-yoke cabling on the lower cam, and 2) a fine-tuning device built into the cams like Bowtech has, for cam syncing. The average archer is becoming much more sophisticated in their knowledge of, and participation in, bow tuning. I hope Hope Hoyt will begin to recognize that and reflect it in their designs, like Bowtech already has.
For cam sync, Bowtech has what they call a "Micro-sync dial" built into the cam. See link below. By contrast, in Hoyt systems to set the draw stop timing, you need to press the bow and then change the length of cabling (add/subtract twist). A somewhat awkward system. As new bow-strings settle in, you may need to check and set it again, and possibly repeat later with the passage of time. I wouldn't buy a bowtech for only that feature of course. But it does show they believe archers now want tuning features that, in the past, were not well understood by the average archer.https://bowtecharchery.com/bowtech-technologies/micro-sync-dial/
Just shot an RX1 today. WOW! Of course, it blew my Carbon element completely out of the water. I’m getting one probably in the spring in Kuiu, or the Optifade. I like the darker green of the Kuiu more. Draw was really smooth, let down was easy and didn’t jump away from me and it was spitting those arrows pretty fast! Very nice and price is comparable to last years pro defiant from the custom shop
The suggested retail is only $1,699. With accessories you can be into one for under $2,000 but not if you get a decent drop away rest, quiver, sight,and stabilizer. Probably closer to $2,150 fully accessorized with the accessories at the same quality level as the bow itself.
I checked one out today, very nice, but not $1549 nice. I did really like the verde on the bow. I just don't see where they justify that price when other companies have more features/are more tunable, and usually around $500 cheaper. They're great bows but not for me.
"What exactly do you think is moving if not the strings?"
Maybe the shooter.
But it is probably the cabling. It is pretty easy to mark cams with pencil so you can easily see if anything has moved.
As an aside, the last 2 Hoyts I have owned still have the stock cabling (still have the aftermarket strings for the first of the 2 hanging in their original packaging on a peg in my gear box) and the stock stuff has been absolutely nails.
""So, unless you replace factory strings and cables with factory strings and cables, Winners Choice, Vaportrail, and 60X Custom Strings will void your warrenty? ""
HDE, that is exactly how I read that warranty requirement too. That is one reason why I threw that link out there.....if we're reading the warranty requirements correctly, the fine print might come back to bite someone that buys a Hoyt bow.
The one I shot was listed at $1550. I have tested other bows in the past and always buy a Hoyt. Owned a single cam Matthews for a few months and hated the single cam and the draw cycle. That’s when I sold it and bought my Element. I’ve tested other Matthews bows, PSE, Elite, etc. I prefer the smoothness of a Hoyt and how easily they tune for me.
As for warranty’s go, I’ve never had to use one, ever. I don’t worry about them much.
So I guess for every 1,000 Hoyts sold, 999 have no warranty because most people I know put aftermarket strings on them when they buy them. Hoyt needs to go ahead and change that part of their warranty rules (hint, hint Hoyt guys) because there are aftermarket string manufacturers that produce them that, quite frankly, exceed or equal the factory strings...
As far as Hoyt's shoot-ability and tune-ability, I keep going back to them after all the other bows on the market I've tried. Never have not had a Hoyt for the past few years, the other manufacturers I've owned are just trying them out because as a lefty, I don't get to shoot before I buy.
I think the company Hoyt is, its just a disclaimer to cover their bases. I'd be willing to bet that this requirement would never be implemented on a bow that truly fails at no fault of the user's. God Bless men
Hoyt is ROCK solid when it comes to backing their product on workmanship or defects. No need to worry there. Price wise it seems high, but when you figure your average Yokel is walking around wearing $2,000+ in gear on any given day hunting, and most guys generally keep bows for years and use them year round, it's really not that insane for the best bows on the planet...
IMO....I would not want to test that warranty clause....but that's me. If I was in the market for a new Hoyt, I'd clarify with customer service what the exact deal is with that clause so I do not get any surprises down the road.
For what BB is saying....3 rifles to one bow.....I'd go with the rifles as they should hold their value better.
I have an APA Black Mamba MX2. If I get another bow, I'll likely go with APA again as their bows have more practical features that I use in the field/stand than most bow's out there. The bow hanger built into the riser is a great idea. I use that every time I'm in the tree.
Man these bows are amazingly dead in the hand and smooth through the entire draw cycle. I am thinking I need to get the lower let off mods though. I have never liked low holding weights for accuracy. Or I could do an 80 pounder... Hmmm?
I shot the RX-1 last week. The draw cycle feels similar to other late model Hoyts, except the valley seems longer. Need to try the Turbo, but they're not available for a few more weeks. I'll be curious to hear from guys who've tuned one of the new models, as to whether anything different needs to be done as a departure from normal Hoyt tuning.
The only part of Hoyt's warranty to be concerned with is the "mail order" exclusion that was put in place back in the 80's to protect dealers. They catalog serial numbers and the associated dealer the bows are sold to.
Yes on the tune. They are super straight and level, and as always easy as pie with the yokes. On the speeds I can't on the RX-1, but I can tell you this: They are faster than the Nitrum line and Spyder line, which were significantly faster than the Defiant line. They gained a lot of efficiency with this limb, cam, and riser geometry combo. They don't say where, but so far my guess is the limb length/angle combination and some cam. I really prefer the draw cycle on these new cams to the DFX and even the Z5. And with the new lower let off option being achieved by putting on larger draw stops means I can get the let off I prefer (75%) and shorten the valley at the same time. Also very desirable for good holding and accuracy. All these companies are going over board with the let off, and the valley. We can thank the dopes over at Elite for that mess. LOL
Thanks ELKMAN, I really need to shoot one of these rigs. State law here only allows up to 80% let-off so the high let-off option will be out. I prefer 75% myself so that is a great option to have. Based upon straight specs I'm not impressed by these Hoyts but I'll still give them a fair chance by shooting them. We have Hoyt's in our house now and they are super easy to tune.
ELKMAN, the bowhunting public is getting old. We need more user friendly (read Elite-like) bows. LOL. Ironically, Elites are getting more Hoyt-like in their draw cycle I think (less valley, stiffer draw).
Bighorn- Sorry for delay, we were out east hunting. I do not. I would say that every single change they made were upgrades, and some of them are massive upgrades, at least on the carbon line. In my opinion their aluminum line is a little to heavy now for real hunting. At your specs. I would recommend either the RX-1 or the RX-1 Turbo if your a speed guy.
Like I said above, the cams and system are near exact copy of Bowtech cams they have had for years. Its a binary system with the ONLY difference being the split cables riding on both sides of the cam and cam shape is slightly different. That appears to be their only innovative significant design change. However Bowtechs adjust both drawn lengths and string wall stops/letoffs the same and without a bow press came out a few years ago. Good to see Hoyts catch up. LOL
No Mercy, did your bow come with Cameron Hanes Keep Hammering decals on the limbs. Saw a video with him at Hoyt labs actually installing the decals himself. pretty cool.
"Like I said above, the cams and system are near exact copy of Bowtech cams they have had for years. Its a binary system with the ONLY difference being the split cables riding on both sides of the cam and cam shape is slightly different. "
It isn't a binary system and hence not a near exact copy of Bowtech cams. Two wrongs don't make a right - although three rights make a left.
I shot the both the standard and Ultra RX-1 today and wasn’t able to leave the shop without ordering an Ultra. The Ultra seemed to draw smoother than the 32” model with less of a hump before breaking into the valley and the bow tech at the shop said he’d observed the same. I noticed very little hand shock and the bow seemed quieter than my 2014 Carbon Spyder but I’ll need to shoot side by side to better compare.
The bow is nearly 15 FPS faster than my Spyder and seems to shoot and balance better with a limited sample size. Set at 30” draw and limb bolts bottomed out on a 70# model the bow was pushing a 440 grain arrow 305 FPS. Some of the speed gain is surely driven by the lower brace height and the balance of the FPS gain could be because this bow has a heavier draw weight than my Spyder but I won’t know that until I get mine in and can put it on a scale and draw board. I didn’t notice the shorter brace height and even though I was in a dress shirt I didn’t have any interference or slap issues.
GotbowAZ: You are COMPLETELY WRONG. You could not be more wrong. It is not a Binary at all. In fact it is no different than any other Hoyt Hybrid cam, other than it being load leveled on the bottom cam with a split module.