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Carcass tag placement and evid of sex
Colorado hunters, where did you place your carcass tag? What did you do for the evidence of sex?
While deboning a rear quarter I cut off the sack and a small (2 pound) section of inner thigh meat and ran the carcass tag through the sack with a zip tie. (My buddy swore they always put the carcass tag on the antlers)
While we were pulled over by a DWO I specifically asked the question as to where the tag and evidence of sex should be and he said I did the right thing.
Reading through the regs today it appears I maybe should have had the evidence of sex on a larger muscle group if not the entire rear quarter.
What brought this up is a image I just saw on another forum of a huge buck deer taken in eastern CO with a carcass tag on the antlers. I'm pretty sure that's against the regs but wanted to see what everyone else did.
I believe attaching the the Antlers is fine if the animal is in one piece (not quartered or de-boned). If quartered or de-boned then the tag needs to be on the meat and the evidence of sex needs to be on a quarter or large portion of the meat and definatly naturally attached.
Colorado is a bit of a PITA.
For a bull or buck, it is pretty easy. I skin out the testicles and leave one with each thigh - bone in or bone out. Much more sanitary than leaving the hair on them.
For a cow or doe, it is a bit tougher. I will usually cut around the udder and vagina and leave a portion attached to each hind. Not as sanitary as with a buck or bull because you can't completely skin out either of those.
Make sure to cut out the sex, date and sign on the bottom line. Signing can be almost impossible with wet, bloody hands in the field! I typically will use some string and cut the little punch out a bit bigger to run it through and tie it to a hind leg through the hock or through the muscles on a thigh if boned.
"I cut off the sack and a small (2 pound) section of inner thigh meat"
Interesting that the warden said that was ok. Evidence of sex is supposed to be naturally attached to the "quarter or another major part of the carcass" per the regs, so your re-reading of the regs is correct. It's only ok to have it on the antlers if they are still attached to the carcass as well.
Thanks for the details Treeline. That makes sense.
Genitals separate from a quarter should not be evidence of sex. I always just leave testicles or utter attached to one side of the quarter and tag the meat.
I removed testicles and left scrotum attached on one hind quarter. Left a sandwich zip lock bag in my kill kit to protect meat from scrotum. Throw some paracord around bag and I was good to go.
Since we bone out our elk - CO and WY, I sent the question to the WY Game and fish. I can't speak to CO, however this year we boned out the cow I shot (CO) and put the proof of sex attached to a small piece of meat and hide into a large zip lock baggie and kept it in the freezer with the rest of the elk. (Right or wrong, that's how we did it)
I printed out the WYGF response (yes, I know it was WY, not CO) and keep it with me.
My question to them: "We completely bone out our elk, process it in camp (cut & vacuum seal all portions) and place it in a freezer that we bring with us, how do I retain the proof of sex attached to a portion of the animal, can we place the proof of sex in a zip lock baggie and just keep it with the meat? Thank you, Bob
Here is their response: Bob, Statute states that evidence of sex must be retained while said animal is in transportation from site of kill to the residence of the person taking the animal or delivered to a processor for processing. Since camp is not considered your residence and you are not an actual processor, you would need to go ahead and keep the evidence of sex with you until you get to your residence (you can still process the meat, just make sure you retain evidence of sex as well). Hope this helped to clarify your question. Sincerely, WGFD Wildlife Division Administration
I do what treeline does. I also put my carcass tag attached to an quarter. Never on the antlers
According to the Barney Fife wardens in Colorado, who wrote me a soviner of sorts, attaching the tag to the horns of a Bull was not correct. It needed to go in the bag with the evidence of sex. Made no sense to me but, I was 1400 miles from home. And as they said, this wasn’t a big deal but, it was their job to nip it in the bud. So to speak of course.
I’m so dang confused as to what is expected to do here. Blows my mind really why getting a tag bloody serves any purpose. But, I’m dumb like that too
Legally you have to have the carcass tag with meat / proof of sex. With that said you can put the tag on the antlers if the animal is whole.
One reason I justified the tag on such a small piece of meat was that we were separating the muscle groups in the field before placing into the game bags. At that point it made sense to have as small a piece of meat with the scrotum, in its separate bag. Again, after reading through the regulations again I'm surprised we didn't catch some hell over that.
All in all, it was a good experience to have been pulled over and checked. A little nerve-wracking but a good experience.
"According to the Barney Fife wardens in Colorado, who wrote me a soviner of sorts, attaching the tag to the horns of a Bull was not correct. It needed to go in the bag with the evidence of sex. Made no sense to me but, I was 1400 miles from home"
Unless your elks antlers was naturally attached to some meat, not sure what your gripe with the warden. The rule is spelled out pretty clearly:
CARCASS TAGS You must attach a carcass tag to animals you kill per instructions on tag. Tags must be immediately signed, dated, detached from the license and attached to the carcass of the animal — NOT to DETACHED hides, horns, antlers or carried separately. Tags must stay on until meat is processed and remain with meat until consumed. It is illegal to sign or tear the tag before a kill.
Also right out of the regs
"If a carcass is cut in pieces or deboned, evidence of sex needs to be attached to a quarter or another major part of carcass."
I always debone the rear quarter before I haul out on my back, but see no reason to cut it down smaller than that in the field. I don't carry enough ziplocks in my daypack to cut/divide further than that and I think dividing it further makes it harder to keep the meat clean. There is certainly more loss/trim later. I think you did satisfy the "Major part of the carcass clause" or close enough that he didn't see the need to do anything. But to be safe, I have always kept at least 1 quarter deboned, but intact. I separate the rear quarter at the knee, and debone from the knee up through the thigh muscles up to the hip. That is the portion I leave evidence of sex on and attach the carcass tag. Shouldn't weigh over around 50 lbs. If you don't want to carry that much weight, cut that section in half right along where you removed the bone to reduce weight. No one can argue that this would not be "a major part of the carcass"
"According to the Barney Fife wardens in Colorado, who wrote me a soviner of sorts, attaching the tag to the horns of a Bull was not correct. It needed to go in the bag with the evidence of sex. Made no sense to me but, I was 1400 miles from home."
If you had read the regs there would have been no problem, no need to take a dig at the wardens...
Well, we had pretty much the same thing as WVM except we didn't get a souvenier. My son killed a bull, we packed it out with part of penis attached. The next day we processed the meat to a size that the largest piece would fit in a gallon zip lock. Had our license check that afternoon while fishing. The game warden saw that my son's license had be filled out as required to tag a bull. His first question was did you kill a bull, did you leave evidence of sex attached. Yes but only to a small piece of meat that would fit in a gallon zip lock. He about had a come apart. He said it had to remain attached to a major piece of meat until processed for consumption. We process our own, in fact we had consumed some of it the night before. The reason we took it down that small was to help in the cooling, more contact with ice, etc. He finally settled down and went on his way.
I once was quartering out a mule deer doe in CO during archery season...about half way through my buddy said "damn, u forgot to leave proof of sex"...as it was still attached to the hide, I cut left a strip of hide all the way to the shoulder....yes..i left the udder attached to the shoulder ??
Not to throw a curve here, but "sex" in CO is determined by what is between the ears, not the legs. That being said, if I have an "antlerless" tag and shoot a bull calf, I reduce it to quarters to pack out leaving the head and hide behind, those "jewels" that I leave attached to the hind quarter per regs only show "sex" of the animal, not "antlerless". Now what?
Fawn, in that case you have to pack out the head as well to prove it was antlerless.
For a bull elk to be legal in any unit with a 4 point restriction, you have to pack out the head as well.
the funniest part of it all is that none of all that is actually in the Statute voted on by legislature. Now I do what most do and try my best to appease the CPW officer but they are enforcing something that is not on the State Statute. they can change the reg book yearly without problem so technically the reg book isn't the end all. just sayin
"they can change the reg book yearly without problem so technically the reg book isn't the end all."
It is the 'end all' for the year it's printed. That's why you read the regs EVERY year, it takes about 20 minutes...
What if you forget to stand on one leg and turn your hat backwards while cutting your tag?
They will make the Regs just vague enough to leave room for 'interpretation' and not always in favor of the hunter.
But in all the elk Ive quartered up, I just cut around the teats/nuts, flop em over on the quarter, and keep quartering. No plastic bags, NADA.
Only when back at truck or at camp do I attached the tag. Slice the hock on hind quarter and attach the carcass tag w/ zip tie or cut thru boneless part and do the same.
In the end, It aint rocket science
I don't pack out a cow head any more, but you have to pack out the head of a bull. In 4 point areas for sure, but even if there are no 4 point restrictions, they have to be sure it would not be considered "antlerless". I can't think of any situation where you would not have to pack out a bull's head.
"Only when back at truck or at camp do I attached the tag. Slice the hock on hind quarter and attach the carcass tag w/ zip tie or cut thru boneless part and do the same"
In the past, it was acceptable to carry the carcass tag in your pocket when you are packing the animal out until you get it all to the truck/camp. This is no longer acceptable. You have to attach it to the carcass before transporting any of it. I have an email from P&W confirming this
Only in a motorized vehicle does the tag need to be attached. Not transporting by person or horse
cnelk You better read the regs.
If you get any static from the CPW just tell them our elk would be offended that its sex would be determined simply by what plumbing it has. Its 2017, determining sex using genitalia is offensive.
@deadhead4 - By god you're right!
But it wasnt always that way. [Good thing I kill my all elk close to my truck]
Yep, I had an email about 5 years ago confirming that you could keep the tag in your pocket until you got all meat to the truck. But the way it is worded now says you have to attach before transporting, and I asked this year and they confirmed.
Some things make no sense. If you get a hair tag what difference does it make regarding sex?
Does anyone get nervous about leaving a quarter with proof of sex and a tag hanging over night? Either in camp or at the kill. We have a lot of black bears where we hunt.
Killing a bear to get my tag back might not look good! I once found my bulls head a few hundred yards from the meat. Only kinda joking as it has kept me awake a few times.
So data purposes cost you aggravation, harassment, a ticket and fine? When you've made the effort to tag the animal? How about viewing the hunter as an honest person without the presumption of being a poacher? So much seems guilty until you prove yourself innocent.....
Sorry, smells like a ticket for doing 26 in a 25........ yeah you "broke" the law.... but speaks much more about the Richard Head that wrote the ticket than anything. (my apologies to Richards...)