Sounds like a retirement opportunity... :)
In all seriousness, if you don't find the guy you're really looking for my offer stands!
LKH - Let me know if you still need another contact for this.
LKH who are you looking at using?
Jeff Caldwell comes highly recommend, I don't want to leave the kids any money, so his fees aren't an issue for me.
There are a lot of you guys who would help me make choices and I appreciate it, but I've given my word to Jeff and I'll honor that.
Mostly I just want to have a good trip. If I kill an old buck, size optional, I'll consider that a bonus.
Larry
Jeff Coldwell 43, of Firestone Colorado, of Antler Quest, has pleaded guilty to poaching charges as well as leaving the poached deer to rot.
Jeff Coldwell pleaded guilty to illegal possession of 3 or more in Weld county. In addition to the foritfiture of the illigally taken wildlife he forfeited his muzzleloader and the court fined him $7,500 with 36 months probation. Coldwell also pled guilty to abuse of public records in Adams County and received a 2 year deferred sentence for false statements made regarding a bear license. The courts donated a portion of his fine to Operation Game Thief.
The abuses also led the Colorado Wildlife Commission to suspend Coldwell’s privilege of applying for, purchasing, or exercising the benefits conferred by all DOW licenses for 20 years. His license privileges are also suspended in 22 Wildlife Violator Compact states.
It all began with a hunch. Wildlife Officer Windi Padia contacted Jeff Coldwell while on ATV patrol in Game Management Unit 20 during the 2005 muzzleloader season. Coldwell had a muzzleloader, but no hunting license in his possession. Noticing a clump of deer hair near his truck, Padia inquired further, but Coldwell denied taking a deer. Coldwell was visibly nervous throughout the contact and told Padia he had been hunting with a family member who had a deer license for GMU 18, about seven miles to the west and over the Continental Divide. After checking the records for Coldwell’s license, Officer Padia found that it was valid for GMU 20 only.
Additional Wildlife Officers, Aimee Ryel and John Koehler, were engaged to conduct interviews in Coldwell’s hometown, whereupon he admitted he had taken a large mule deer buck illegally in GMU 18 and had already transported the cape out of the unit by backpack. Another deer was shot by the licensed family member and both animals were left to rot. Officers hiked to the kill site and located the trophy-quality skinned buck, as well as a quartered buck. The meat was only salvageable on one of the animals.
Now, the full arm of the law reached in--a search warrant was obtained for Coldwell’s residence yielding evidence that Coldwell used another family member's license to tag a buck in 2000. Padia seized Coldwell’s computer and found further evidence of a wildlife violation--emails from Coldwell showed that he had gone bear hunting in 2005 and finding that people were camped near his hunting spot, promptly told a representative from the DOW that he was not able to go on his bear hunt due to medical issues. Six bear preference points were reinstated to Coldwell based on his statements. This fraudulent activity led Officer Padia to charge him with abuse of public records. After disposition of the case in Adams County, his bear preference points were revoked.
In connection with the case, two members of Jeff Coldwell’s family have received citations for wildlife violations and have chosen to pay their fines.
One poaching leads to proof of another
Evidence also seized from Coldwell’s computer revealed information from a 2003 Trophy Hunter magazine article depicting Coldwell in Fox Park, also in GMU 18, with a harvested buck. This evidence prompted Officer Padia to obtain another search warrant for his residence. The buck in question was seized and it was determined that Coldwell poached it in 2003 in GMU 18 during muzzleloader season. He did not have a license for GMU 18 that year.
“Transferring licenses, a form of ‘party hunting’, has severely negative impacts on our wildlife,” said Officer Windi Padia. “Hunting opportunities are regulated for a reason—any additional opportunity created by a poacher is one less opportunity for an ethical hunter. Everyone who values our wildlife should know that poaching doesn’t pay.”
You can help stop poaching. If you see a poaching incident, report it. Poaching is a crime against you, your neighbor, and everyone else in the state of Colorado. Call 1-877-COLO-OGT toll-free or Verizon cell phone users can just dial #OGT. If you'd like, you can e-mail us at [email protected] .
Was surprised to see at least 1 pope and young member , self proclaimed DIY public land, bowsite hero on Jeff’s “bragging board” a couple times.
Just in case you miss it, that's sarcasm.
So if you use him, be careful and check everything out. You could end up being charged with hiring an illegal outfitter.
As far as his past sins, I have to say, at 39 years old, if I could travel back in time 15-20 yrs, I would whoop my own ass for some of the crap I knowingly did that I deeply regret and would never repeat. But I don’t blame anyone for steering clear of him for what he did.
Check this one out: http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/26791.html#57
Post of people ragging on "Founder" the owner of Monstermulies website for doing the same thing antlerquest is doing. Check out his responses # 50 and #57. And FYI, the bill introduced in Wyoming to stop this kind of thing: HOUSE BILL NO. HB0229 passed the house, but that is as far as it got
Tex is right as it is dirty as all get up, unethical in most folks eyes, but not totally illegal depending on the angle you take to look at it. So the CPW needs to take a long look at it from all angles and in the end could get some much needed $ from regulating scouters the same way as outfitters.
More than a few folks I talk with feel it is time a well written citizens petition should be presented to the CPW on a much needed change. Time for DIY hunters who actually work for their animal to support limiting "scouting" packages.. Best way would be to get with a couple of well connected outfitters and get some language we all can support to put in place to curtail what is yea not quite legal but not quite illegal deal - just dirty... If the state feels a few in certain units are needed fine regulate them on par with outfitters. That way hunters know they are not financing the trips of a convicted poacher.
I also believe any change will not effect any hard working hunters as lets call a spade a spade once you have a big deer found 90% of the work is done and the deer is basically handed to the hunter. Even more the case with these high country rifle hunts cater to this "lazy" crowd as with a gun that shoots 1000yds and a dot on a map it is a sure thing to kill that buck. Anyone could get the buck with the odds tilted so much in favor of them but that is what some DIY hunters need to get it done I guess.
My belief is you should find your own deer or use a outfitter licensed by the state as these "scouting" services" are just a way for the lazy to buy a deer then take the credit then claim DIY - that is laughable. In my eyes guys who buy scouting packages is on par with a Jon who buys a escort service to look cool at dinner.. Flat out EGO PERIOD...... I mean why not just go buy a mount and tell the neighbor you killed it kinda the same thing dont ya think?
Tx - how many unchecked, unlicensed, uninsured, "scouters" is too many in any given unit? 2,10,100?? I mean with no oversight, insurance, and in unlimited scope/number what could go wrong lol!
Best part is that anyone would cite mm site thanks for the laugh Tex! I believe the convicted poacher was quite popular over there and pry still is...
Not everyone is all about EGO PERIOD. I've never used such a service, but I can imagine it being a useful one to take. It is WAY different than a guided service. You run with a guide and you have someone you don't know doing all the work for you AND a guy who walks along with you every step of the way throughout the hunt and tells you to do this and that.
For a person who likes to hunt their own way, but is burning a pile of points and wants to ensure a good hunt, this seems like a great option. You get fastracked into a good area, but get to hunt your own way, do your own camp, make your own mistakes your own way. Very different than an outfitted hunt and "the same as buying a mount?" Camman. It's a legitimate option for people to take, if it needs to be regulated differently than so be it, whatever, but if I wanted to hunt an animal outfitted I've always felt that it would essentially be so that I could have access to an animal I cannot hunt otherwise, and I would love it if I could forego the rest of the help.
No it isn't "DIY" in a pure sense of the word, but neither is it if you get a tip from your buddy that he seen something good over in the next drain. If you get your panties in a wad about something other people claim, you're in for a long ride. Who cares if some guy claims DIY when it isn't. Liars are everywhere can't let it bug you. This type of service sounds like a legitimate option.
Seems like if guys are now entering the "limited service" outfitting industry, the regulatory body could perhaps step in much like the real estate commission did for brokers. Perhaps all "limited service" outfitters (scouting services) should have licensing requirements, meet a regulatory threshold including education, testing on the law at hand, background checks, and have regulatory remedies for complaints from the public. You can't be a convicted felon, and hold a real estate license in Colorado, it is done so to protect the public at large.
Those are solely my own opinions, based on being licensed by the state as a real estate broker, complying with regulations like an FBI background check, passing a test on the law, and annually meeting continuing education requirements to better serve the public.
In some states, it's no small thing to become a guide. It costs money, there are bonds and whatnot... To be a guide in AK, you have to have hunted in the state for 5 yrs, have taken a course, been along with and assisted a certain number of hunts/stalks, besides paying money to the state.
"Outfitter" means a person soliciting to provide or providing, for compensation, outfitting services for the purpose of hunting or fishing on land that the person does not own.
(5.5) "Outfitting services" means providing transportation of individuals, equipment, supplies, or wildlife by means of vehicle, vessel, or pack animal, facilities including but not limited to tents, cabins, camp gear, food, or similar supplies, equipment, or accommodations, and guiding, leading, packing, protecting, supervising, instructing, or training persons or groups of persons in the take or attempted take of wildlife.
I would think both AntlerQuest and Monstermulies "Founder" should be licensed Colorado outfitters to provide "scouting services" since they are providing supplies, wildlife, and instructing. Just my personal opinion.
I hiked in, on my own, used my own gear, spotted my own deer, stalked the deer that I found, shot that deer, processed that deer on my own and hiked it out 6 miles to my truck.
Definitely not guided, not defending Jeff, but I think its a service that fills the "void" between guided and DIY when its not possible for some of us to scout like we should.
I guess I should now be licensed also because I have shared some of the information from that hunt with a few guys that may also be hunting that same area? Fishing hot spots are all over the internet, assuming this also happens in Colorado, do those guys need to be licensed?
If hunters are harvesting at too high of success rate then states to to further limit the tags available.
Mike
Who cares if someone that uses a scouting service claims it was a diy hunt? Does that hurt anyone else if they aren’t telling the truth about it?
Jahvada why is a scouting package dirtier then using an outfitter? One of them holds your hand completely. Basically is all you have to do is pull the trigger with a good outfitter. A scouting package only supply’s info on an area. You have to actually get yourself there. Spot your own animal etc.
Jahvada so a guy that uses a scouting package is lazy? Some people would call them smart. It probably costs less money to use a scouting package then to fly, rent a car, use 2 days vacation so you can scout for an entire weekend. Idk what the package costs but I’m sure it’s a wash money wise plus it saves you a couple vacation days that you can use for family time or more hunting time. Also most guys that are in the type of shape that OFFHNTN is in I would not call lazy.
Are you calling bohuntr part of this lazy crowd? I know he has used Jeff before?
You guys need to get off your high horses. Why aren’t you bashing outfitters that do way more for a hunter then any scouting package does?
I’m sure everyone that is against scouting packages is against using an outfitter with hounds to shoot a mountain lion right? Because after the outfitter drives you around, let’s the dogs out on the tracks, and trees the cat, is all you do is walk up and shoot it. Doesn’t seem like it would even take a hunter to make that kill? More like a shooter is all you need. How bout outfitted bear hunts with bait. Outfitter has multiple locations pre baited. You show up, get driven to your stand, and shoot yogi when he walks in to eat a donut. Again doesn’t take much of a hunter. More like a shooter.
Buying a scouting package and killing an animal isn’t easier then shooting a cat out of a tree or shooting a bear over bait. So are we going to start calling these hunters lazy also?
I just can’t wrap my head around the fact most people against scouting packages are fine with fully outfitted hunts where the guide does everything for you. Crazy world we live in.
What if you stay at a hotel or rent a cabin and ask the owner if he can point you in the right direction? Who would consider that unethical or illegal? Ridiculous
Great idea, bill, and step in the right direction. Colorado looks to follow suit soon and I am in full support of the Wyoming bill.
They sent it out via email about a week ago.. The web link went live yesterday and is below. Great to hear a similar movement is afoot in Colorado!
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2018/Introduced/HB0005.pdf
"Done your time" - "paid your debt to society" - now drift off and hunt on your own.
If you love the outdoors and photographing so much (as was stated), but PLEASE don't give anyone the BS that you are providing this service simply because of your love of the outdoors - if it was that darn important to you - do it for free then.
Simply put - He's doing this to for profit, because it's PROFITABLE!
Paid his debt to society - really - so then a convicted sexual predator that had raped 3 boy scouts gets out of prison after 15 years (paid his debt - as you put it) - now its okay for him to go back and be a troop leader simply because he loves to show the boys how to tie knots. REALLY!
"a) No person shall advertise or provide to a hunter for remuneration the location and identification information of any previously scouted big or trophy game animal for the purpose of aiding the hunter in the taking of that specific previously scouted big or trophy game animal."
Talk about a law with a loopholes. So you don't sell location of a specific trophy animal, but a location where "you have seen some nice bucks". Wink, wink. If they want to pass a law that these people have to have some sort of an outfitters license, so be it, but this law will do nothing
They have to hold a outfitters license with the state and have actually quite a bit of over site from the CPW. There is 0, zip, nada oversight as to area or scope of "scouters". Or for example with no oversight a convicted poacher can be making a ton of $$$ on the wildlife of the state... So basically over site, accountability, and integrity are 3 big differences between outfitters and some of these "scouters"
I guess I believe what Officer Windi Padia said or “Hunting opportunities are regulated for a reason—any additional opportunity created by a poacher is one less opportunity for an ethical hunter. " Yep that sums it up for me.
Your tirade about lions/outfitters/bears not sure what you are getting at yea outfitters use dogs and get the quota every year around here and that is a good thing in my eyes.. I dont know either of the people you speak of above.
But now some of you guys have me thinking... Or I am seriously thinking about starting a web site with pictures of animals (mainly large mule deer) listed unit by unit where a hunter can bid and the highest bidder (with a reserve) wins the location on a given date. Landowners could post their tags for sale right along pics of the animals and get the most $$ out of the LO tag they were allocated. Great idea kinda a giant clearing house of animals where anyone could post a pic (for a 25% fee) and get paid big $$$. Me and a group of friends would add animals we find. Hunters could then watch in real time as pics would be updated and pick the animal they wanted with out leaving the comfort of their lazy boy recliner - that is if they could bid enough. I mean how much for a 160" buck, 170", at 180" the real money comes out - if you find a 200" put it up and get paid some real money!! Maybe just maybe we could sell every buck in a lot of basins and again make some great $$... Hows that sound Branden??
When it comes down to it the pimping of wildlife and bringing money into hunting is something most hunters despise but is unavoidable. Outfitters fill a needed roll in the process for some and are tightly regulated. Getting a giant muley is not supposed to be a easy task and many hunters as you say would rather spend money than do their own work and there is where I see the problem...
Or IMO it is getting to the time where Colorado needs to follow Wyoming's and put some regulations in place to regulate what is currently a wild wild west type of thing going on out there..
Tx good to see you are still chugging that mm kool-aid lol...
Good to know you are above all the riff raff over at MM. It is a damn good website but you are also drinking the cool aid if you think anyone tells me what to think. I posted the MM thread to back up the FACT that what is being done is not illegal. Nothing more, nothing less. And If you think that Jeff is welcome at MM still, you need to get your facts straight. He was "run out of town" over there when he got into trouble. The only person over there that tries to defend poachers is Tristate, and I will let you draw your own conclusions about him.
Not sure how you defend the act of hunting when it gets to the point Jahvada is describing, I learned today we are already there. Not only can we sit on the couch, look at the pictures until we find the object of our desire, we can auction bid for the location of the trophy you want, and we can also participate on the back end of the equation by finding animals, getting photos, and uploading to the webmaster for our cut of the pie. Soon, instead of " I buy houses" signs posted on street corners, we will find "I buy big bucks and bulls" signs with www.prehunt.com on them so we can all turn in that buck or bull we found.
Try to defend that against HSUS ads making us all look like selfish slobs who forgot about fair chase, putting the animal ahead above our own self centered goals, and conservation. What do we say when the Sierra club, defender of wildlife, earth justice, rocky mountain wolf project and others run the next ballot initiative to ban hunting in Colorado? This thread is about Colorado, we have 5.5 million people here, and well over 5 million of them don't hunt, and don't care if you get to or not.
Those are solely my own opinions, and this does not bode well for the future.
OTOH, most are willing to pay someone who has the time and skills to do what they do not. Truck repairs and plumbing come to mind, as does hiring a hunting guide for a species one isn't familiar with or has the time/ability to hunt on their own.
In not sure where "scouting services" rank on the scale. Selling info on an area is different than selling the location of a specific buck a guy has been watching all summer, but even then its up to the hunter who buys the info to close the deal. Suppose its all about what you want out of the whole hunting experience.
However, there a few things I will comment on. I knew Jeff LONG before (2000) his troubles with CDOW, as did MANY on several of these boards. In fact, I exchanged information with him (prior to his charges) on certain units and states. I provided him with information in states I was very familiar with and he for me in CO. He never charged me anything for that information. Two of the deer he apparently uses were from areas we exchanged information on that I still hunt at times.....I'm guessing that's why he uses them? However, all of this was prior to 2007 when he was held to answer for his violations. I refuse to call them mistakes, as he knowingly made the decisions to do what he did and ultimately paid the price, which I agree with. It was disappointing for many (including me), but it is what it is and nothing anyone else (including family and friends) could do about it. You can't in-ring a bell. I will say that when he was caught he called many of his friends and outdoors acquaintances and laid out exactly what he did......and blamed only himself. I was shocked and very disappointed and let him know that. I also spoke to the female investigator who was on the case to verify what he relayed to me was accurate. It was. While I still didn't approve of what he did and will NEVER condone it, I did respect that he called folks and let them know directly. I'm not sure where his misdemeanor convictions and probation terms are at this point in his life and what he is/is not allowed to do. That is his business. Enough on that.
Another point I wanted to lay to rest was the legality of his scouting service. I called the CDOW director of law enforcement around 2003 to ask that very question, as my hunting partner wanted to use him (which he did)? After looking into it, I was told that his type of service did NOT require a permit or license so "buyer beware" should be used if someone wanted to utilize his service. I'm not sure if the state has changed that law since then, but if not, then I believe he would still be able to operate provided it did not violate the terms and conditions of his probation? So many of you here need to understand that.....and know that real estate law has absolutely nothing to do with this statute.
As for the 'one strike and you're out' mentality, my personal and professional opinion is that IF he has paid his dues for the crimes committed and truly is rehabilitated (no longer a violator) and becomes a steward of wildlife and a productive member of society, then the justice system worked. That IS our objective. I hope that will be the case with him. Time will tell once he has fully paid for his crimes. To try and compare those violations to ANY type of sexual assault is asinine., IMO. Enough on that.
As for true "do it yourself" type hunts.......from what I know of his service years ago, his information was specific drainages and/or basins, different trailheads to go into, and where water sources were above timberline......the rest was up to you. It surprises me that some on here call that a foul? I find it ironic, as some who have posted on THIS THREAD have asked and RECEIVED that same type of information from ME.......in fact, the information I provided was MUCH more detailed than many scouting services provide (where to camp, glass from, which hill-side to watch, etc.). Hhhhmmmm, I'll take the high road and leave it at that, but maybe they'll think twice when they form an opinion on something without looking in the mirror first. Additionally, how many on here have called a warden or biologist for information on areas to concentrate for their upcoming hunt or for the next years draw? I guess the warden should have a permit as well if you are successful, right? After all it's not DIY if you are successful? I don't think so. How about posting on this board asking for help and you receive a PM with good info......then kill a buck. Was it DIY? I believe so. Enough on that.
Scouting services have been around since the 80's folks.....it's not new. Robby Denning has been doing it a while in Idaho and there are several in CO and Arizona as well. It's not "dirty" unless it's abused in some manner. SOME are already outfitters that offer that service as well........however, there are a few that only offer scouting services. Should they be regulated? I'm not sure, yet. Regulations would not have prevented what Mr. Coldwell did, as it had nothing to do with his service and more about greed.....and seeing some greenies, aka CO folks otherwise known as the next CA, wanting more regulations doesn't surprise me at all. To even mention Wyoming is true hypocrisy since their G&F is in bed with the outfitters. Remember you can hike in the wilderness to fish and enjoy the scenery all you want......but if you hunt your are REQUIRED to hire a guide or have a credited resident accompany you. Yeah, they're a good example. (roll eyes)
Lastly, folks that only provide scouting services don't traditionally do it for the money, IMO, as they would starve. So for the poster who believes they are 'getting rich' on wildlife you should do more research and understand and deal with facts.
I've spent too much time on this already. For LKH, if you want to utilize his service, just know the background of the owner, check with CDOW and ensure the requirements have not changed and it's legal, and make YOUR decision based on all that you know. It's YOUR decision.
As for scouting services. I once thought of using one. I choose not to and happily won’t look back on that decision.
The research and scouting before the actual hunt is half the fun.
If I ever draw a coveted tag I will put everything I can personally to make the most of that tag On my own.
As for the OP and his future hunt and scouting efforts I say good luck and hope for the best.
As far as Jeff and his character, I don't know him personally. He's from my area so I know people who have had both good and bad experiences with him. I have not heard any rumblings within our local hunting community about him crossing the line again and my LEO friend has not either, so hopefully he did learn his lesson and has found a legit way to continue to make of his passion and knowledge. I believe in forgiveness for those who learn lessons. Just because someone had a DUI 15 years ago doesn't make them a perpetual drunk driver if they don't continue to do it.
Where his operation falls within the licensing law I don't know - I only relayed what my local game warden told me. I advised Larry (OP) to do his due diligence and if everything checks out and it suits his needs, then go for it.
Like you, I help people all the time with the kind of information you provided to me. That's what hunters do to help other hunters. I never ask for anything in return and would never send someone to a place where someone I knew was hunting or planned to hunt. I don't know how Jeff operates but from my limited knowledge most scouting services don't adhere to that same ethical level. Money tends to bend ethics sometimes. But not always.
I did not know some of the things that folks say Jeff continues to do are not very above board at all. Since he has NOT served his time it is a moot point to if he is rehabilitated as it seems guys above seem he should get a break BEFORE his time is up. He has not served his time so ENOUGH ON THAT.. I am sure he files every penny he makes with the tax man come tax day lol..
These same guys pry support things like selling the GPS coordinates pulled off unsuspecting trophy pics the net . Or another fool proof way is as Jaq put it following certain hunters and selling the bucks they found.. Pretty shitty dark stuff but hey what ever it takes for folks who dont want to put in the work to get a buck just want to pay for it..
I told a by acquaintance I respect and a fellow DIY and hard working hunter that I should cut and paste this so I did - "he trolls the internet and looks for trophy shots...even the most innocuous background he can find the exact location you are on by using google earth and then he sells the information...if that is not slime ball I don't know what it is...a guy get a great animal wants some terrain to make a good picture and he trolls in and find the location and sells it...most of his scouting is getting info from unsuspecting hunters who are just sharing their photos...beware..."
Another shining review of this "service"... That is not the only complaint I have learned of in the past week since this thread started - so yea buyer beware or maybe CPW beware as this is not what hunting is.
A couple of things - in another call a spade a spade moment - I am sure any kill pics on any web site would be removed if the hunter did not approve. Interesting but I wonder if you guys think he got caught for EVERYTHING he did wrong or just half of it? Seems some guys were buddy buddy WHEN this was happening but saw nothing. Interesting...
What someone else said rings true to me or putting a undeserving hunter on a buck/bull that a diy hunter patterned all summer is another just flat out wrong practice that only put $$$ in a convinced poachers pocket who has yet to serve his sentence .. It does not help either hunter creates a big conflict in the field and makes all hunters look like asses.
Another great point - maybe the best point - is how non hunters see the selling of a animal just for size as that is what is going on here. Crazy how mad they get about it gives all us hunters a black eye. They see it for what it is as they dont have to defend a "friend" or a buck they killed with out working for it... If we as hunters dont police ourselves it is our falt when at a time like this we all look like asses or like we only worried about the size of antlers we can buy..
Many many reasons above where these grey area's have turned to dark black as that is where these scouting service chooses to operate and that is where my service will be much different and a on much much larger scale.
Already am starting to get the photo's and the web site will be up soon. Folks seem to think elk will be a big $$ pusher so we will focus on elk mainly in OTC units as well. Since you can buy a licence right up until starting day and the market is giant with new folks looking for info almost daily. Our goal is set to sell 55 animals off on the first year with no outfitter permitting, insurance, or rules of any kind and I think we will hit it. One guy has even offered up several of the "packages" he bought over the years and we are going to take a look and these spots then re sell this info. Again this will be pics of exact animals, the date, and unit they are in complete with trailead/camping info. To get the gps as well as full package you will have to bid enough to be the winner of the auction. I believe the selling of the best OTC elk spots we know will be a big producer.
So dont be afraid to shoot me a pm if you want to move to the top of the list as I will direct message the first folks to participate - there will no doubt be 350+ bulls and 200" bucks we will sell to the highest bidder come fall.
Going to be exciting as hey if you can beat um join um right?
Tx I was not talking about everyone over on the monster lots of good guys over there my comments are directed at just one guy who's smack in the middle of this controversial "scouting" activity and I believe his handle rhymes with "owner".
This is important because if a hunter is trying to decide between two scouting services this information that you alerted us to would help to make the decision.
Here is an elk I killed in CO a few years ago. 1,200 miles away. I got a tip from an acquaintance, he gave me some directions on how to navigate through some confusing mountain roads and get to a trail head. Then basically told me to camp there and head west. I hunted solo, sunrise to sunset for 5 days till I got a shot. Was it DIY? I would say yes.......not sure how anyone can argue that. As others have said, EVERY ONE of us has had some sort of intel passed on to lead us to a spot. Saw it on the internet, talked to a buddy, read it on a forum, saw success stats posted, intercepted it from the CIA, martians told you..........SOMETHING led you to that area. According to some of you.........if you are guilty of any of the above.......your hunts have not been DIY. Ridiculous.
By the way, the acquaintance that gave me directions to the trailhead on this elk hunt, was Jeff. Don't like him, don't use him, but don't pass judgement on anyone unless your hands are clean and you are perfect. By the sounds of some of you........(Jahvada)......clearly you are.
Congrats on earning that goat as well as your other animals! Total gut check for you and you toughed it out and did it. This is what my heels looked like when I got home from the elk hunt I posted above. But like your hunt(s)..........I guess we took the easy way out didn't we? (enter sarcasm)
I've never had a heel blister, even after elk hunting hard for 30 days straight. Still don't understand how something like that can happen.
I still think the best way to find game will be with a infra red drone at night with a non hunter (like jeff) flying. As the scouting/drone rules are written if the pilot it taking pics of the night sky/scenery and tell me where the happen to run into game = grey area yes but illegal no.. If the pilot is not a hunter just like Jeff so no harm no foul. Believe me that the infra red setting on these new cameras is amazing as a good pilot can knock out a easy 6-8 basins in a single night. Just another tool in the box to find animals and put folks on em. Only rule I can find is a elevation rule while over wilderness areas.
For you guys who dont think it gives you a advantage there is another scouting service advertising it gives you a 4000% better chance. I am one of the anomalies on this thread as I found my last buck, bull, and even one 350" bull for my wife - so not sure or not if it does it help 4000%? Either way seemed to work for ya congrats on a bull glad your total of 5 days out was not too hard. I get it jeff is your buddy that is ok but myself as well as many others dont agree with the practice and dont agree with a poacher making a living off the wildlife of the state of Co. That is the bottom line. You see it different fair enough...
But dude in all seriousness not sure why we need to see your unprepared nasty ass feet tho? Only thing it proves is you cant find good boots or dont know to prepare enough for your hunt to break them in? Maybe pay your scouter to break them in for ya next time lol. Either way good work your blisters prove you dont know how a boot should fit. Just a idea but if you do your own scouting you find things like that out before the season starts....
Glad to see the discussion continuing with points on both sides and also interesting to hear that this link is going to see some use as relates to scouting services. http://cpw.state.co.us/aboutus/Pages/Citizen-Petition.aspx
So (off) this is not going away for a bit. A couple of outfitters have voiced support for regulation of scouters as a couple simple regulations would solve a lot of the very big problems that come up with the unregulated selling of trophy animals for profit.
Once again getting on your high horse. Finding a buck, bull, one of our wife and blah blah blah....... Good for you, but..........umm........YOU LIVE IN COLORADO! You are obviously missing the point, so I will have a more logical conversation with my coffee cup this morning than with someone who looks down their nose because they can find game a couple hours away............in their own state.
It is too bad that this discussion was centered on antler quest as it should not be about them/him other than one example but rather about the scouting services and large growth that we are seeing not only in the scouting services information/industry if you can call it that. I am sure from where you sit you dont see this other than your one hunt but some of us do from living around here..
I also do see a big difference is talking hunting with life long friends/family and selling x buck, in y basin, for z dollars.. Again just a difference between how folks see it I guess.
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Am I the only one that finds it ironic that some people get upset at others for paying for "sex" from a "woman" but have no problems asking for free "sex" from a woman.
Do you still find it "ironic" or does it sound different to you now?
What happens if you ask for Free Sex and when they say no you offer Money? Is this "ironic" or "different"?
I'm not sure why you have a personal attack on me, but I'll be your huckleberry if it makes you feel better. I thought I answered your question in my post, but apparently not to your satisfaction.
Funny you mention articles......hmmmmm. Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote in 2013 under researching areas: "After reviewing all this data, I usually start making phone calls to guides I may know in the business, scouting services, taxidermists, fellow P&Y members, and game managers of the area." I guess you missed it? Nothing hiding there.....it's in black and white print. But, according to you, if someone (mainly me) get any tips from any of these folks, it's no longer DIY??? Maybe that's your definition, but not mine (or many others based on the PM's I've received). But then again, you probably 'killed yourself a bear when you were only three'. :)
As for scouting, I don't even want to count the amount of bonsai scouting trips I've done out-of-state over the years. Arizona and Nevada are easy for me, but some states are simply not feasible for 'a long weekend' when you're 16 hours or more away. Look I get it, you don't approve of the person in your state still doing business after a serious wildlife conviction.....and to stop him, you want legislation. While I'm not convinced that's the answer yet, I do understand your frustration. Most would assume that while serving his penalty (probation), he should not be able to continue this service. Is that a legislative issue, or one that the CDOW and district attorney failed to stipulate with the terms and conditions of his probation?
I will only add this.....and then I'm really done with this thread. :) Juhvada has brought up a few points that I didn't think of that make me question a few things (deciphering photos). IF that's occurring, and someone is making money off of that, then perhaps there is reason for scrutiny and I understand his feeling of 'dirty'. I tend to agree, IF that's occurring.
Hope you have a great winter!
Ryan, think about what you're typing. Do you HONESTLY believe that anyone who have either used (paid) or exchanged information (me) with him PRIOR to his poaching incident has an ethical issue? If so, then ANYONE who bought Kirt Darner's book on "How to Find Giant Bucks" is equally unethical. Guess you can remove half of the B&C Board.
And for the guys who compare the death of a dumb deer to child rape, you are truly stupid.
As for making a "quick call to CPW and I'm sure they would have told you"......again, you are incorrect. Please review my first post on this thread. I DID call the them and spoke to the director of law enforcement to see if his business was was okay and if he needed a permit to offer the service. It would have been a great time for them to say something, right? They didn't. It may have been because they were building a case years before his incident OR it could have been they had no indication of wrong doing at that time (like many).
You sure operate on A LOT of ASSumptions without factual data to support it. But I get it.....you and your dad are the PILLARS of the hunting community, you can tell who's naughty or nice, and a statue should be erected in your honor. Seems silly to me.....but I now understand your true motive, as I'm sure many others do by now.
Post by Woody Williams on Mar 11, 2007 at 7:04pm
ANTLER FEVER’ DROVE COLORADO RESIDENT TO POACHING
Jeff Coldwell, 43, of Firestone, Colorado recently pled guilty to poaching charges
In May of 2006, Jeff Coldwell pleaded guilty to illegal possession of three or more deer in Weld County. In addition to the loss of the illegally taken wildlife, he forfeited his muzzleloader and the court fined him $7,500 with 36 months probation. Coldwell also pled guilty to abuse of public records in Adams County and received a 2 year deferred sentence for false statements made regarding a bear license. The courts donated a portion of his fine to Operation Game Thief.
The abuses also led the Colorado Wildlife Commission to suspend Coldwell’s privilege of applying for, purchasing, or exercising the benefits conferred by all DOW licenses for 20 years. His license privileges are also suspended in 22 Wildlife Violator Compact states.
It all began with a hunch. Wildlife Officer Windi Padia contacted Jeff Coldwell while on ATV patrol in Game Management Unit 20 during the 2005 muzzleloader season. Coldwell had a muzzleloader, but no hunting license in his possession. Noticing a clump of deer hair near his truck, Padia inquired further, but Coldwell denied taking a deer. Coldwell was visibly nervous throughout the contact and told Padia he had been hunting with a family member who had a deer license for GMU 18, about seven miles to the west and over the Continental Divide. After checking the records for Coldwell’s license, Officer Padia found that it was valid for GMU 20 only.
Additional Wildlife Officers, Aimee Ryel and John Koehler, were engaged to conduct interviews in Coldwell’s hometown, whereupon he admitted he had taken a large mule deer buck illegally in GMU 18 and had already transported the cape out of the unit by backpack. Another deer was shot by the licensed family member and both animals were left to rot. Officers hiked to the kill site and located the trophy-quality skinned buck, as well as a quartered buck. The meat was only salvageable on one of the animals.
Now, the full arm of the law reached in--a search warrant was obtained for Coldwell’s residence yielding evidence that Coldwell used another family member's license to tag a buck in 2000. Padia seized Coldwell’s computer and found further evidence of a wildlife violation--emails from Coldwell showed that he had gone bear hunting in 2005 and finding that people were camped near his hunting spot, promptly told a representative from the DOW that he was not able to go on his bear hunt due to medical issues. Six bear preference points were reinstated to Coldwell based on his statements. This fraudulent activity led Officer Padia to charge him with abuse of public records. After disposition of the case in Adams County, his bear preference points were revoked.
In connection with the case, two members of Jeff Coldwell’s family have received citations for wildlife violations and have chosen to pay their fines.
One poaching leads to proof of another
Evidence also seized from Coldwell’s computer revealed information from a 2003 Trophy Hunter magazine article depicting Coldwell in Fox Park, also in GMU 18, with a harvested buck. This evidence prompted Officer Padia to obtain another search warrant for his residence. The buck in question was seized and it was determined that Coldwell poached it in 2003 in GMU 18 during muzzleloader season. He did not have a license for GMU 18 that year.
“Transferring licenses, a form of ‘party hunting’, has severely negative impacts on our wildlife,” said Officer Windi Padia. “Hunting opportunities are regulated for a reason—any additional opportunity created by a poacher is one less opportunity for an ethical hunter. Everyone who values our wildlife should know that poaching doesn’t pay.”
You can help stop poaching. If you see a poaching incident, report it. Poaching is a crime against you, your neighbor, and everyone else in the state of Colorado. Call 1-877-COLO-OGT toll-free or Verizon cell phone users can just dial #OGT. If you'd like, you can e-mail us at [email protected].
The Colorado Division of Wildlife is the state agency responsible for managing wildlife and its habitat, as well as providing wildlife related recreation. The Division is funded through hunting and fishing license fees, federal grants and Colorado Lottery proceeds through Great Outdoors Colorado.
For more information about Division of Wildlife go to: wildlife.state.co.us.
Orion, where you crossed the line is by attacking Bohnter personally. Attack his ideas all you want but when you attack the person making them, you lower our opinion of your thoughts. I understand you are passionate about your beliefs on this issue, and you make some good arguments, but don't stoop to personal attack tactics.
I’ve barely paid attention to this thread but figured I’d have a peek since it keeps making it’s way back to the top.
I have no idea what the alleged criminal did.
But paying for GENERAL information should not be a crime. I’m not into the type of stuff that Mossback does and I can’t imagine being able to gives exact coordinates of where a bull is peeing as we speak. I also don’t know why anyone would want to take so much of the hunt out of their hunt. But I have a few words to live by and some of them are “To each his own” As long as it doesn’t affect me or break the laws that the rest of us live by.
My 2 cents for the week on this subject.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/social-media-modern-technology-and-the-commercialization-our-wildlife#gs.plgzBsw
It’s no complicated fact that without social media much of our hunting community or companionship wouldn’t be where it is at today. Heck, without social media 90% of you would likely have never even been exposed to this article. No matter what your own personal participation level is, it is undeniable that social media is here to stay. While the use of social media platforms can be a great way to share our adventures with loved ones and friends, it can also be a feeding ground for anti-hunting organizations. Self-policing on our own personal level is a given, but what about when a business or organization begins pushing ideas that paint hunters in a negative light?
If you’ve spent any time on social media in the past month you may have seen the latest “insta-scandal” of companies now using phone apps to sell the location of trophy animals on public land. If not, here’s a basic rundown: Within these phone apps anyone who locates an animal, sign of an animal, or otherwise any indicator that a trophy animal may be present in an area can actually sell the GPS coordinates of the location to other users! What's more, it’s impossible to police this information, which leaves the opportunity for purchasers to be strung into a wild goose chase as they search for their next “wall hanger.” I'm sure I’m not alone in saying that this is incredibly alarming, infuriating, and downright wrong on many levels.
YOUR WILDLIFE FOR SALE While the legality of these apps is even questionable to begin with it’s hard to stomach that anyone would be willing to give up any hard-won information and/or be so caught up in the killing of an animal that they would bypass the actual hunt in favor of swiping a card and punching a tag. It’s sickening, really.
The bottom line here is that anyone using this app is profiting off something that is a public resource and domain. That is to say, these profits are leveraged off of animals that are publicly owned by each and every citizen of the US! I know some of you will likely toss out the guides’ and outfitters’ arguments here, but it is important to remember that outfitters and guides pay their dues through licensing and permits to the states—not to mention the money they bring into local communities. At the other end of the spectrum, the creators of these apps are merely making a quick buck while not bringing anything to the table for the benefit of the wildlife and land. They are stealing from you, from your kids, and from your wallet.
The biggest gray area here is the exchange of money for information potentially leading to an animal being shot. This has gone on for years with finders fees made common in governor’s and auction tags. I have my opinions on the subject, but feel those should best be sorted through for yourself.
Wyoming taking a stand Wyoming prohibiting sale of wildlife locations
Wyoming has recently taken a stand against this with House Bill No. HB0005 Sale of wildlife information-prohibition that was pushed the 2018 Budge Session. According to The Sheridan Press, Wyoming Game and Fish Department chief game warden Brian Nesvik said the issue arose because individuals locate trophy class animals, taken photos of them, collected their GPS locations and sold the locations to scouting services, which also provide additional services to help hunters find the animals during hunting season. Back in 2016 Wyoming also banned the use of aerial scouting during the hunting season.
According to the bill:
"No person shall advertise or provide to a hunter for remuneration the location and identification information of any previously scouted big or trophy game animal for the purpose of aiding the hunter in the taking of that specific previously scouted big or trophy game animal. For purposes of this subsection, "location and identification information" means: (i) The geographical coordinates of the location of the animal or any maps, drawings, illustrations or other documents which show the location of the animal; and (ii) Photographs, drawings, descriptions or other information which identify the animal."
KILLING THE EXPERIENCE Watching my daughter, who is now just over a year old, grow up in this world has been nothing short of spectacular. While I have to keep reminding myself to slow down and enjoy what we have now, I’d be lying if I wasn’t secretly waiting for her to turn 10 so she can participate in Montana’s mentored hunting program. I want her to come to love, appreciate, and embrace the hard work and dedication that comes with chasing animals on public lands and consistently filling tags. Apps like these seek only to cheapen the experience that is the hunt and cater to this new world where instant satisfaction is the motto of the day. This is not the hunting that I want my daughter to know. In fact, this is not hunting at all.
Gear Shop - Shop Now
It kills me to think that anyone can stumble into a mature animal and sell its location while effectively robbing someone the opportunity to earn that animal through sweat equity and a pack out that is carried out well after the sun has gone down. While my style of hunting may not be favored by everyone, I do feel that animals of a given maturity level deserve a certain level of physical and/or mental commitment before a shot should be presented. The bottomline is this: It’s not my prerogative to decipher what hunting means to anyone, but I would wager to bet that the majority of you reading this would have no qualms with concluding that purchasing an animal’s locations is far from it.
FAIR CHASE OR NOT? Here is another one of the gray area arguments. When it comes to fair chase, where do we draw the line? In an environment where tools such as Google Earth, trail cameras, and even research tools, where do we draw the line when discussing fair chase? Obviously, this is a subject that is up to individual interpretation, but here is how I see it: I see nothing wrong with using available published data, aerial imagery, or following a hot lead when it comes to researching a hunt. Heck, there’s a reason why I shoot a compound bow over traditional gear. In this modern era, I can choose to hunt as primitive or as tech savvy as I want with the limit falling comfortably into the lap of my consciousness.
Screenshot from social media page comment against selling wildlife
Scouring harvest data or buck to doe ratios has never told me where animals inhabit a unit. Sure, combining that information with wildlife studies and aerial maps can narrow down good deer and elk habitat, but all of these areas still need to be ground verified. After finding a few good looking spots, I still have to hike into my favorite high country basins to glass or set trail cameras before learning a mature bull is in the area. I could save an awful lot of gas and time away from my family if I just purchased the location of a buck or bull the night before a hunt, but at what cost? I did absolutely nothing to earn that animal.
PUBLIC PERCEPTION Perhaps the greatest issue I see with the apps is the public image they are creating for hunters. Think back to any anti-hunting posts where a hunter is at the center of attention. Common words you’ll run across will range from “murderer” to “psychopath” as well as a whole slew of other obscenities. It’s as important now as it ever has been to promote a positive image of hunters and how this lifestyle is so much more than simply killing animals. To put it into perspective, put yourself in the shoes of anyone in the non-hunting public and imagine how you might feel when you see hunters putting a price on an animal's head and selling it to the highest bidder. It makes it pretty easy to see why some have the strong opinions that they do.
Screenshot from social media page against selling wildlife
For the most part, this is where hunting has arrived. Social media has driven the desire to kill a trophy to such an extent that people are willing to sell and buy animals in hopes that it leads to hashtag stardom. This is a pathetic fact and something that is quickly leading us down a road of irreversible damage. It’s time for a change. Fortunately, judging by a few of these companies Facebook pages, it’s fairly apparent that the hunting community has come together in force and let its voices be heard that the commercialization of our wildlife will not be tolerated.
COMING TOGETHER FOR THE GREATER GOOD If you haven’t figured it out yet I hold a lot of merit in the power of social media and truly believe that it will ultimately go down in history as one of the biggest proponents or opponents for our future. This fact was never more apparent than after Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz introduced a bill that called for the disposal of 3.3 million acres of federal land across 10 western states. H.R. 621, as it was called, was withdrawn after just over a week after hunters across the country united under the hashtag #KeepItPublic and definitely stood up against the loss of protection for our public lands. If we can accomplish something as profound as that in a week we are capable of much more.
While I’m not saying we need to stage a protest because I haven’t drawn my bighorn sheep tag yet (I won't argue if you want to), we need to realize that while hunters occupy less than 10% of the total population of the United States, social media can serve as a megaphone. What we post on social media everyday will be open to interpretation by people from all walks of life. We need to think of ourselves as stewards of the sport and act accordingly. At the end of the day, we all need to learn to come together and fight for the greater good. Spreading positivity among our community and through the non-hunting public should be held in the highest regards.
