Carbon Express Arrows
California Bow Ram
Wild Sheep
Contributors to this thread:
NvaGvUp 13-Dec-17
Bigpizzaman 13-Dec-17
loopmtz 13-Dec-17
t-roy 13-Dec-17
Charlie Rehor 13-Dec-17
HULLHEAVER 13-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 13-Dec-17
TD 13-Dec-17
Greg S 13-Dec-17
Paul@thefort 13-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 13-Dec-17
GotBowAz 13-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 13-Dec-17
Heat 13-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 13-Dec-17
kota-man 13-Dec-17
'Ike' (Phone) 13-Dec-17
Gus 13-Dec-17
The last savage 13-Dec-17
DL 13-Dec-17
buzz mc 13-Dec-17
Bowboy 13-Dec-17
BOWUNTR 13-Dec-17
IdyllwildArcher 13-Dec-17
BULELK1 14-Dec-17
bsbowhunter 14-Dec-17
sticksender 14-Dec-17
Capra 14-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 14-Dec-17
Greg S 14-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 14-Dec-17
trkyslr 14-Dec-17
DL 15-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 15-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 15-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 16-Dec-17
Treeline 18-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 18-Dec-17
Charlie Rehor 18-Dec-17
BOWUNTR 18-Dec-17
DL 18-Dec-17
DL 18-Dec-17
DL 18-Dec-17
Mad Trapper 19-Dec-17
trkyslr 19-Dec-17
BOWUNTR 19-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 19-Dec-17
IdyllwildArcher 19-Dec-17
DL 19-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 19-Dec-17
BOWUNTR 19-Dec-17
DL 19-Dec-17
DL 19-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 19-Dec-17
DL 19-Dec-17
NvaGvUp 19-Dec-17
From: NvaGvUp
13-Dec-17

NvaGvUp's embedded Photo
NvaGvUp's embedded Photo
Warrior!

From: Bigpizzaman
13-Dec-17
Nice

From: loopmtz
13-Dec-17
Amazing!

From: t-roy
13-Dec-17
Looks like an old rascal. I’ll bet they’re hard to spot in that country too.

13-Dec-17
Congrats Kyle.

From: HULLHEAVER
13-Dec-17
Great Ram. Congratulations to the hunter

From: NvaGvUp
13-Dec-17
It's not my ram, Charlie. :^(

From: TD
13-Dec-17
Congrats to the hunter..... love to see bow killed sheep, pretty special. Gotta wonder if those desert sheep bleed or if they just ooze..... tough ol bugger, lots'a "character".

From: Greg S
13-Dec-17
Every year I try to stop putting in for sheep in CA and then I see a pic like this and I get suckered in. 1 non resident tag is tough! 1 point off max is even worse!

From: Paul@thefort
13-Dec-17
That is one hell of a ram. Nice in deed.

From: NvaGvUp
13-Dec-17
Greg,

It's no longer limited to one non-resident tag. Three or four years ago I got a bill passed in the legislature which, among other things, changed the language to "up to 10%." That's what most states do, so the 'not more than one' limit is gone.

From: GotBowAz
13-Dec-17
NvaGvUp, is there a story, anymore pictures? Hell of a ram right there.

From: NvaGvUp
13-Dec-17
He's 168'ish and came out of the Marble/Clipper unit.

The reason I say '168'ish' is because he has a lot of chips and dings on his horns, so scoring him accurately is a challenge.

That's about all I know right now. If I learn more, I'll post it.

13-Dec-17
Congrats.

From: Heat
13-Dec-17
That is a great ram! Congrats to the hunter. Notice the arrow with a nice stain. Well done!

From: NvaGvUp
13-Dec-17
The shot was 37 yards and he ran 100 yards before going down.

From: kota-man
13-Dec-17
Beautiful ram...Impressive. Congrats to the hunter.

13-Dec-17
Nice...

From: Gus
13-Dec-17
Awesome ram! Congrats!

13-Dec-17
What a Great ram!l!!! Congrats!

From: DL
13-Dec-17
My hats off to him. After hunting in that crappy lava rock I could not figure out how I could have got in bow range. My knees do not work well enough even to walk well in that stuff let alone try to put on any kind of bow range stalk. Incredible accomplishment.

From: buzz mc
13-Dec-17
Awesome. Congrats to the hunter.

From: Bowboy
13-Dec-17
Very nice who ever the hunter is.

From: BOWUNTR
13-Dec-17
Nice one. Congrats to the hunter. Getting it done with a bow is a mindset... Ed F

13-Dec-17
That's fantastic. A sheep tag anywhere in CA is a special thing.

From: BULELK1
14-Dec-17
Crazy big!!

Congrats to the bow hunter

Thanks for sharing Kyle

Good luck, Robb

From: bsbowhunter
14-Dec-17
What an awesome Ram! Congratulations to the hunter!

From: sticksender
14-Dec-17
Outstanding ram, congrats to the bowhunter. He sure looks bigger than 168.

From: Capra
14-Dec-17
What a great ram, Congrats to the hunter!

I'll admit I'm a little biased but it seems like the Desert Shep in California have great genetics and the most character. On occasion, you will see one from NM but it just seems like the greatest rams are in California.

From: NvaGvUp
14-Dec-17
Capra,

You're correct. CA has some really big rams in all but a couple of hunt units. In the past few years, rams over 180" have been taken in at least five different hunt units that I know of.

From: Greg S
14-Dec-17
With the lost tags the last couple years though the numbers haven’t been enough to allow two non res tags. Think it was only one year where there were enough tags to allow two. It is what it is though.

From: NvaGvUp
14-Dec-17
Greg,

Yeah. The disease outbreak in 2013 hammered CA's sheep, esp. in the Old Dads unit. That reduced tag numbers.

Earlier this year, CA WSF met with DFW and they agreed with us they were waaaay too conservative in the number of tags they were giving out. They promised us that would change beginning with next season.

But it will not, at least for next season, given an unconscienceable failure of a person at DFW to request new bids for heliicopter surveys in time to actually do surveys!

*Beats head against wall*

From: trkyslr
14-Dec-17
Awesome ram and a dream tag for sure!!! And agree with Ed! He’s getting it done.

From: DL
15-Dec-17
Kyle, hard to believe a person forgets when that’s your job.

From: NvaGvUp
15-Dec-17
Dave,

Ya' think?

It's not only your job, it should also be your top priority. #1 on the list without question.

Yet there are lots of people out there who want the government to run our healthcare system.

From: NvaGvUp
15-Dec-17
Dave,

Last Friday at our semi-annual Sheep Summit, I asked the person who's responsibility it is to send out the requests for bids why it had not been done on time.

The response was mind boggling:

"I just didn't get around to it."

UFB!

From: NvaGvUp
16-Dec-17
Ike,

Glad you like the Random Draw tag idea. That was 100% CA WSF's idea.

I presented the idea to the Commission in early 2009 at a meeting in Stockton. They loved the idea for the same reason you mentioned.

I've since run the numbers on that. I used the average of what the similar CA deer, elk, antelope and sheep fundraising tags were selling at auction for each year, then compared those totals with the money the random draw tags were raising.

In the first three years alone, the DFW brought in over $420,000 in ADDITIONAL funds vs. what they'd have gotten by selling those tags at auction. That means that since they started the random draw tags, they've now brought in over $1,00,000 in additional revenue!

From: Treeline
18-Dec-17
Awesome ram!

Congratulations to the hunter.

Kyle, thank you for all your hard work and successes for wild sheep! There’s a good reason I signed up as a life member with WSF!

From: NvaGvUp
18-Dec-17
Thank you, Tavis.

I've had an interest in conservation since I was a young boy. I esp. have an interest in policy and in bringing new (and frequently market-based) ideas to the various people and bureaucracies who make the ultimate calls on wildlife management.

The 'random draw' idea was not of my creation. I'd just seen essentially the same thing being done successfully in other states and simply asked the DFG Commission to follow suit.

After I founded CA WSF and started working with the DFW, it quickly became clear that there was there little creativity and few if any new ideas because the system actually discourages such things and even penalizes employees for bringing them forward.

I saw a lot of really good people who'd learned through experience that sticking their necks out was a good way to get their heads cut off.

I think perhaps the Number One thing NGOs can do for their state agencies is to have their backs and fight battles they either don't want to try to fight or for which they are prohibited from fighting.

18-Dec-17
Just amazing!

From: BOWUNTR
18-Dec-17
When is California going to have archery sheep tags? Ed F

From: DL
18-Dec-17
Hey Kyle, this will make you burn. At one of the guzzlers it got filled with sand. f&w had cameras there and should have known that the sheep were eating wet mud out of it. Someone called and ripped them in language that wasn’t appropriate for their ears. They got a call telling them not to respond to them that way. The question was asked why when they had cameras there didn’t they tell someone or dig it out. Well for one reason they haven’t been trained in shovel use!!! No joke that was the response.

From: DL
18-Dec-17
Hey Kyle, this will make you burn. At one of the guzzlers it got filled with sand. f&w had cameras there and should have known that the sheep were eating wet mud out of it. Someone called and ripped them in language that wasn’t appropriate for their ears. They got a call telling them not to respond to them that way. The question was asked why when they had cameras there didn’t they tell someone or dig it out. Well for one reason they haven’t been trained in shovel use!!! No joke that was the response.

From: DL
18-Dec-17
Ed they do. You get drawn you can any weapon you want. In some zones you will be the only hunter in 7,000 sq miles. No competition.

From: Mad Trapper
19-Dec-17
Can a nonresident draw this tag?

From: trkyslr
19-Dec-17
DL your missing the point to Ed’s question I believe.. by having an “archery only” sheep draw that increases the odds of drawing for some true bowhunters out there as the gun hunters won’t or shouldn’t apply.. so for example instead of 3,000 (gun and bow hunters) putting in for two tags on one specific hunt it may only be 300 making the odds better. Ed correct me if I’m wrong ;-)

I’d also like to hear Kyle’s response on this. For the other other special limited species (elk and deer) draws they have archery hunts so why not for sheep?......

From: BOWUNTR
19-Dec-17
Spot on Chris... they talked about this happening but nothing ever came of it. Ed F

From: NvaGvUp
19-Dec-17
Non-residents can apply for any unit which has a tag.

They can also buy as many tickets in the Random Draw as they want, as fundraising tags are excluded from the 'up to 10%' limit. In fact, in the very first year the Random Draw for sheep became available, a woman from Wisconsin won the tag.

19-Dec-17
While it'd be nice, I doubt an archery sheep tag is a possibility in CA. Of all the states that have sheep, only CO, as far as I know, has dedicated archery sheep tags. Even AZ, with its ~100 sheep tags doesn't have dedicated archery sheep tags, so there's not really precedent for it. Plus, most units only have 1 or 2 tags so they'd probably put the archery tag in the White Mountains, which, personally, is not where I want to hunt sheep in CA. Additionally, if it's just one tag, it's going to be in the random pool per CA's rules so if you have max points, it'd probably make your odds worse to apply for it. Lastly, CA is not friendly to archery hunters. Just look at the elk tags. They took away more than 1/2 of them and never replaced them. As a share of elk tags, CA's archery allotment is the lowest of all the states that have more than 100 elk tags.

From: DL
19-Dec-17
I knew what he was asking but I doubt it will ever happen. There’s so few tags to start with. Look at how many elk and antelope archery tags are given out.

From: NvaGvUp
19-Dec-17
I think the San Gabriel Mtns might be the best option for an archery sheep hunt.

From: BOWUNTR
19-Dec-17
San Gabriels doesn't even have a tag. I was referring to an archery only tag? Ed F

From: DL
19-Dec-17
Only a matter of time.

From: DL
19-Dec-17

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
Here’s where sheep are located here.

From: NvaGvUp
19-Dec-17
Ed,

I know that. Yet the herd there is ~ 400 animals, so it's a good target for getting it opened as a hunt unit.

Kyle

From: DL
19-Dec-17
There’s no reason not to have double the tags that they issue now.

From: NvaGvUp
19-Dec-17
Dave,

The truly frustrating thing is they've agreed to that, PROMISED us they'd increase tag numbers, then have done nothing to actually get that done.

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