Africa-Cheaper than an elk hunt.
International
One of my closest friends is addicted to hunting Africa, goes at least every other year. He is fond of saying, "I can hunt Africa and kill five or more animals for less than an elk hunt costs." Said it so much, I got sick of hearing it. So one day, I says, let's just examine it. You spent a bout $2K on airfare, add another couple three for the hunt. Big tip, right? Then you had import fees on the trophies and a taxidermy bill, right? Now, let's add in that $120,000 addition you had to build on your house to hold all the mounts. The truth is, you just can't get in good enough shape to hunt elk. Made him mad. So, last year, he books an elk hunt with a friend of mine in NM. Just to prove me wrong. Crapped out the second day, spent the rest of the hunt hunting from treestands. Missed one at 35-yards. This guy is a retired criminal court judge-big money retirement. Great guy. Just got back from LV SCI show. Started telling me about what all he was going to kill in Africa, this year. I told him I was going on a DIY hunt for elk in NM, figured total cost would be about what his plane ticket cost. Shut him up...again.
Now that is worthy of a good story...
Sure wish I had such a supportive friend. Must be a barrel of laughs
You must be feeling lucky if you're already laying claims to a NM NR tag, unless you're getting one handed to you. I did Africa cheaper than I could buy a Chama NM landowner bull tag, thats including air fair. Who needs to bring home a bunch of weird looking African animals that only a few can truly appreciate? Not me, I'll shoot'm they can keep'm. My opinion of mounts and trophies has changed quite a bit over the years, I doubt I'll ever mount another critter to hang on the wall and collect dust plus is a pita when moving. Give me the hunt and a few pictures to share w/ my friends.. keep the hide, I'll sell the horns. I got a good laugh at the guy whining about bringing home elephant parts. Fuggettaboutit
Pound for pound the Judge is right. Africa is very inexpensive now...they are discounting the crap out of their hunts. A PH was posting on the state forums a 2 for 1 for 4 or 5 animals. The thing about Africa is you WILL get your animals. Very rarely do you not...then it`s Ala Carte after that. These outfitted Elk prices are getting ridiculous. All things being equal...if I`m blowing $9000 I`m heading to Africa.
I did my African hunt for $5200 with air fare from NW Montana killed 5 animals shipping back to Montana was about $500 but as far as elk I have never paid a dime except for food and gas
Plus the service in Africa is awesome!! Its just a great experience! For the amount you are spending you get so much more. Do euro mounts in Africa and save big $$$$$$. The shipping for our finished trophies from South Africa back to the US was cheap in my opinion.
You must be feeling lucky if you're already laying claims to a NM NR tag, unless you're getting one handed to you. I did Africa cheaper than I could buy a Chama NM landowner bull tag, thats including air fair. Who needs to bring home a bunch of weird looking African animals that only a few can truly appreciate? Not me, I'll shoot'm they can keep'm. My opinion of mounts and trophies has changed quite a bit over the years, I doubt I'll ever mount another critter to hang on the wall and collect dust plus is a pita when moving. Give me the hunt and a few pictures to share w/ my friends.. keep the hide, I'll sell the horns. I got a good laugh at the guy whining about bringing home elephant parts. Fuggettaboutit
Well, you are kinda right. I have a standing offer for a l.o. tag in the Tierra Amarilla area. It is a private land hunt on an area on which I use to guide. My cost would be a license and travel both ways and I would ride out with the outfitter. I do my own butchering and probably would not mount anything I killed due to no place to put it. As for Africa being cheaper, all I know is what he has spent on his Africa trips and it is a heck of a lot more than he spent on the elk hunt. As for multiple animals, I have always wondered about that aspect. I never based the enjoyment or success of my hunts on getting "my limit". As a side note, I have turned down a few "free" hunts in Africa-had a friend that was a P.H out of Harre or however you spell it. And, I have been to Africa. Spent 18-hours in Joburg. That was just about 15, too many and was before many of you were born. Besides, for all you trophy hunters, why hunt somewhere all you can kill are spikes? (Joke some may not understand.)
Two totally different experiences. Other than the price debate, it is apples and oranges. In my fifties now! Getting harder to hunt elk. Africa tests your meddle as to the flight but once you land it is a very easy hunt. With elk you never know! Africa is pretty certain! Let's keep doing both until we can't! That's the great thing is you don't have to choose! Good hunting g all!
"Sure wish I had such a supportive friend. Must be a barrel of laughs "
LOL! Agreed.
Couldn't have said it any better, Guardian.
Regardless of price involved, African game has just never really interested me as much as North American game...aside from maybe a lion hunt.
Having said that, if you're friend is such a "great guy" why would you disparage him in a condescending manner on a public forum? You should build your friends up, not diminish them in a petty manner!
Or do what I did and go to Africa and don’t hunt. Real Africa. Tanzania and Kenya bush with camera only. It was the best trip of my life hands down and it was easy to manage and share the digital photos :) with no shipping or import fees.
There is a gent that lives down the road from my taxidermist friend and he shot about every species, he had to build a 6K sq ft. building to put them all in. Figure he has several million dollars put into from all the cost that he put in over his lifetime of hunting, he is just following what he really enjoys from his rewards of working hard in his business, he is a primary gun hunter.
While I agree with your line of thinking, you need to make a proper comparison. If you're going to add mounts into the african equation, you need to add mounts into the elk equation. I'm guessing once you really do all the math they aren't that far apart, but as others say, two completely different experiences. Sounds like Africa is more up his alley.
I agree it's cheaper to hunt Africa. Hunts in the states are getting to expensive. IMO it's turning into a rich mans sport. I have to wonder what the future holds for the hunting industry. Are these outfitters pricing themselves out of business? Just a thought
Bake nailed it!
Bowriter- you should REALLY make him mad and challenge him to a 5K road race! ;-)
Steve B -Now that, I might be interested in. I don't think y'all understand our friendship. It isn't a contest at all. I just want to shut him up about Africa, sometimes so we cna get on with the fishing. Everybody who knows him, kids him about building the $120,000 addition just for his African trophies and now it is too small. Besides, he is 12-younger than I and an ex-athlete of some sort. I take him to a private lake in AL and guide him to the biggest bass he has ever caught and all he can talk abut is some plains game package where he can kill five spikes. (Anyone who does not recognize this entire thread is humor is not fully awake.)
Trollwriter, you sneaky rascal you. But for the record, it was hard to tell the difference between this thread and anything else you post.....
Award for the most pointless post this year!!
I've done both - a number of times - if you limit your life experiences, by way of a closed mind, then that's exactly what you get: a shallow life filled with unfulfilled experiences.
I'm with the rest of the guys, two totally different experiences - both can be incredible!!
Wild1, u are still groggy. He wasnt seeious, he went all JK LOL on us... But i would imagine he accepts your award nonetheless!!
You can kill a mountain lion for 5-6k and a leopard with a good outfit is 30-40k, lion 40-50k. An elk is not an impala or a sabel. Comparing different animals on different continents is not apples to apples. I don’t have an opinion on which continent is cheaper, they are just different. I know guys that have spent 8k on a guided New Mexico rifle hunt and didn’t see an elk but would go back because it was a nice place.
John, congratulations on a wonderful career as a successful guide/outfitter and award-winning outdoor writer. Know of your negative views on hunting trophies, but that hardly justifies the public contempt trolled on your “friend” and others who enjoy African Plainsgame Hunting. Have you ever hunted Africa or anywhere outside North America?
If anyone is looking for a thoroughly challenging but fun bowhunt in Africa try spot-and-stalk for wild, free-ranging Bushbok, Vaal Rhebok, or Reedbuck.
Don't mean to go on a tangent, I'm not an expert on African animals, but what is the white animal below Bigdans impala (second photo down)?
It's a White Blesbok... And, a very nice one...!
No interest in Africa. Maybe someday when I'm old and broken I'll head over to sit and shoot.
It's the same animal as the one below it, blesbok as FHF stated. The brown one is the common naturally occurring color phase.
I'm not sure it's fair to include the price of mounting and displaying multiple animals vs one animal, when making such comparisons. I think it's fair to include the cost of hunting multiple animals on a trip to Africa if comparing to the price of an elk hunt, but the mounts seem like a separate issue to me.
I'm jealous of that tag, bowwriter! Have family with a ranch there and I can't even get a diy tag for a reasonable price.
Nick - There's a LOT of other ways to hunt Africa, then to sit and shoot. You're probably aware (or maybe you forgot) but there are some very challenging hunts in Africa, and a lot of them would be unsuccessful with a "old broken" hunter. Or, could you be thinking about North American bait- bear hunters, or sit n shoot whitetail hunters. Not trying to sell anything, I love hunting in North America, especially the rocky mountains and Alaska - but Africa is also amazing and can be challenging in it's own right. In any case, maybe we're all fortunate to be living at a time when we have options and choices.
An open mind leaves the possibility for something worthwhile to fall into it.
I am toying with the idea of doing an African hunt as a gift to myself when I retire. Bow hunt. My target species would be Greater Kudu and Wildebeast. What can a guy expect to spend for the whole package... air fare, mounts, taxes, fees etc?
7mm-08 answer: less than an elk hunt ;)
Go on the African site. Sponsors show all the packages they do
We have these packages on offer now at our luxury lodge location in the North West Province just to give you an idea.
That photo is rough. Try this one.
Or like I said, get that 20k leopard with your camera. Or the Wildbeeste migration.....or the cheetah pride..... or.....
Ken, those are some great prices and you can shoot 8 animals for that!!!!
Rob, I’m in Edison, NJ now. Come to the show if you’re near here.
Go. Hunt. Why would it matter how I value my time and spend my money? This reminds me of the "real" bowhunter where it finally turns out there is only one real bowhunter and he personally harvests the wood for his arrows, chips the stone broadheads, collects the feathers for vanes, the material for the longbow and the string, etc. Hunt ethically and I care less if you sit in a stand, hire an outfitter, pay for access onto private lands, buy a landowner tag, buy an auction tag, shoot wheels or handmade bows and arrows. No one is as smart or wise as they think. Opening our mouths to preach about the one true path sometimes tells people more about who we are than anything else we do.
an't resist. "Ken, those are some great prices and you can shoot 8 animals for that!!!!"
You can kill 15-doves and a mess of squirrels in TN for less than $40. No limit on starlings and, in the fall, in over 25-counties, you can kill over 333 does and two bucks for just a tad more.
Some things aren’t about money. Some things are about experience!
what you need to remember is that Bowriter is the only one doing things right. What those things are changes over time but the way he’s doing it is always the right way.
Can you hunt elk in Chama with a crossbow?
Only if you are "awarded" a special tag....
If you could put a zebra in the mountains and teach it to bugle I'd be all over it. :)
I've always wanted to go to Africa just to experience it. Black Death with a bow is at the top of my wish list. For any of you that like to read get Death in the Silent Places or Death in the Long Grass (or both) and see if you don't get the urge to go! I flat read the covers off those books when I was a kid! They are still a great read after the umpteenth time.
Lee
As a High School teacher the only way I'm hunting Elk is if I hit the Elk Tag lottery here in PA or after I retire and am in my 60s. So Africa, during the summer when I'm on vacation is very appealing to me. Some day for sure.
I want to do it all...not pick one or the other.... hunted Africa once and killed my dream animal..a Buff....how do you insert a video????
great looking buffalo but think how impressive that photo would be if you had a brace of dove instead!
I really don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It think the same came be said for price vs. value. It depends on what the shopper is looking for and what he/she can afford and find enjoyment in doing.
I think flowriter is gettin a kickback from bowsite to create movement n generate clicks..... Its working...;^)
I think you're on to something, stick! We haven't seen this many "look how great I am threads" since a certain turkey archery expert from Alabama was booted. Lol. :-D
Bowriter I was going to fuss at you for telling them it was basically a joke between you and your friend just to shut him up. I was honestly getting some chuckles over how wound up folks were getting. But never mind, they are still frothing at the mouth. ;)
I will probably never hunt Africa, I can not personally justify spending the money on meat I can't bring home. To those who can, more power to you, hunt hard and enjoy. I do enjoy hearing of other's experiences. I have been on one elk hunt. Cost me $30, a couple of days of vacation, maybe a half tank of gas, and a whole bunch of years listening to a co worker bragging about his cow and saying "I told you you should have hunted with me. That bull stepped out right after I shot the cow." He did finally shut up. This elk hunt was in Arkansas back in the 90's and the herd I was watching moved a couple of miles overnight. Oh well I did see one before it was all over, just didn't shoot, thought my cousin's paying customers might get a shot, but the city folks evidently were blind. That's how it goes. ;)
Actually, Bowriter’s initial post contains an outright lie — said his buddy “the Judge” just returned from the LV SCI show bragging about an African hunt he was taking this year. Well now, that’s interesting, as the LV SCI show doesn’t even happen until 31 January this year. Since he lied about that, why should anyone give any credibility to the rest of the story - publicly trashing his buddy (who does that?), the judge’s Hunting skills and fitness, and so on. Fiction writer just spinning another tale to further his own selfish motives, or simply to troll.
Did some quick checking - this guy claims to have done a great many things in life (link attached), but those who know him claim that lately he’s best known for writing fiction and “telling tales” (some of which might have actually happened).
Perhaps John's friend went to Dallas to DSC Convention. Even the protestors were confused- they were holding up "SCI" signs and were really in Dallas at DSC convention. Would this make them "fake protestors"? Another example of the lack depth and understanding of anti-hunters.
Good article good guy and fun To have around adding to the entertainment value of the site.
This is a lot more fun than dove hunting
The hunt experiences are not really comparable in most cases. South Africa is game farm hunting, period. There are other places in Africa that you can get more of a "hunting" experience, but they get really pricey.
The plane ride is dreadful to Africa, but if that's what you want to do, go for it. Just don't compare it to an elk hunt.
TMBB
On my trip Baboons were free and loved shooting them
Well I'm going back didn't regret the first time and I sure as hell won't regret this time. of course I'm not some type of elitist :>
“great looking buffalo but think how impressive that photo would be if you had a brace of dove instead!”
Solid Burn!
I cringe when I read where someone is trying to convince hapless hunters that hunting Africa is cheaper than hunting North America. I bowhunted in Namibia about 6 years ago. Hunt rates will run about $350 per day. Trophy fees for the more highly desired species are not cheap. Kudu will set you back about $2000-2500. Eland the same. Even impala are going close to $1000 these days. Airfare will cost you $2000-3000 depending on your final destination and when you buy tickets. Trophy care and shipment of trophies back home is quite expensive. I paid close to $1000 to get my gemsbok skull bleached, crated, and shipped to me. IMO you are looking at a minimum of about $8K to kill one animal in Africa. Add to that total anything else you choose to shoot. Not the bargain that some try to make it out to be.
It is a tremendous bargain. Some elk hunts will cost you more than 8k and you pay in full whether you tag an elk or not. Plus out of state licenses, tag ,etc., plus you also have travel expenses to go on any hunt in NA plus taxidermy expenses as well. From a $ perspective hunting in Africa is the absolute best bang for your buck.
It's more affordable than it's ever been. If my kids weren't quite so smart I'd be booking with Ken Moody now. Alas, College is an expensive hobby. My only hope at this point is that they decide to send me some day.
I'm with Nick. I have no desire to go to Africa. The only boks I'll ever kill will be a case of Scotch.
Idyll, I and anyone else who has been to REAL Africa, not just a canned waterhole hunt (which could still be very fun) can assure you it’s an amazing and very worthwhile trip. It’s actually life changing. You should try it, even if just with a camera. The favorite trip of my life and I’ve traveled a lot of the world. Tanzania and Kenya was breathtaking on every level!
I’m not sure it matters one way or another which is cheaper. And why compare the two? Does a guy that puts up forty grand for a Stone sheep hunt have to somehow convince others that it’s s good deal compared to a guided whitetail or elk hunt?
I went to RSA once and killed ten animals. If I divide the total cost by ten, each one comes out cheaper than any NA guided hunt I’ve seen and the food is way better. And what other big game hunt do you get to shoot so many arrows in so short a time!?!
I’d go back again just for a Bushbuck and then spend any leftover time shooting baboons. But there’s other adventures that call right now.
Good thing most of us only have to convince our wive’s and not half an Internet forum : )
Some great points, Ambush. Plus, where else can you take your wife on an exotic vacation and still get to shoot a bunch of stuff.
That's right Troy. Almost as luxurious as a cruise! Those safari providers know that to keep their hunters happy and returning they have to keep their wive's even happier.
We went to Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe and then up to Chobe National Park to stay in a beautiful lodge and do game drives and river boat rides.. Absolutely fantastic trip! Adding a week or two of sightseeing makes for a well rounded and enjoyable trip for everyone.
I've been on 7 elk hunts now. Enjoyed every one of them. Even the ones that weren't successful.
I spent a measly 6 days hunting in South Africa in 2016, on a huge conservancy. Spent a grand total of about 6 hours in a blind (two short evenings on day one and two). Shot a kudu out of a blind, then stalked and killed a young warthog, a good red lechwe, and a zebra with a bow. Killed 7 other animals with a rifle. Although it was only 6 days, it was the hunt of my lifetime. I'm booked to go back, and I spend a lot of my waking time wishing I could go back again and again. I'd really like to hunt in Zambia, Moz, CAR, etc. Probably will never happen, especially since I also dream of Mongolia, Tajikistan and Pakistan, Azerbaijan, etc.
I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking I'm an "expert" after only one trip to Africa (or even the trap of thinking I'm an "expert" after 7 elk hunts), but there's really absolutely no comparison between my elk hunts and the one African trip. If I could choose, I'd pick Africa every single time.
Then, as someone above mentioned, you have the added bonus of a stellar destination for loved ones. My wife had never gone hunting with me until Africa. She had a grand time and was there for most of the hunts. Then we spent 4 days in Cape Town and she loved it. She wants to go back too.
I want to hunt basically anything and everything, but some of it will be hard with the pull of Africa . . . .
Ditto to what Bake, Ambush and T-Roy said. Spot on.
My wife has never been on one hunt with me in North America and we have 9 big species just outside our door to hunt. After the 2nd day in Africa and hearing about all of our adventures she decided to take her camera to a waterhole blind for the next 4 days and had an incredible experience. She also rode elephants, tagged along on a rhino dart hunt with a vet (to vaccinate), went to Lion preserve, etc. You can't get that here in the states.
Don't discount Africa because it may be somewhat of a "canned" hunt if you make it that way. It's an experience of a lifetime! Guys that say I'll never do Africa are looking at the jar 1/2 empty.
I hunted SA last fall on a trip I won. Killed a blue wildebeest and an impala buck. Passed up on blesbok ewes, didn't see a ram. But you can make a real hunt out of it, your not just sitting around waiting if you want to stalk game. Both of mine I got while stalking. Since I won it, I got the whole thing, incl. airfare and taxi fees plus tips, for $3K. didn't pay for the actual hunts of the animals or food, so I got a great deal. Not free by any means, but what IS free these days? Not even a 'Win". I would do it again, and 'buy' a kudu, which would be most like an elk hunt. It is not for the old broken down hunter if you don't want it to be. The most challenging one would be the leopard hunt with dogs. No lame out of shape dude is gonna do that I promise.
I cannot get past how happy you are that he failed on his elk hunt, and how satisfied you are that you shut him up. Who wants a friend like that?
Africa is a great place to hunt and everyone should make that trip if possible. I am going back to Namibia this summer for my second trip to Africa. All I am trying to say is that there are a lot of expenses involved other than daily hunt fees and trophy fees.
You guys have glossed over the best tidbit of info in this thread...NO. LIMIT. on starlings! Who's up for a road trip to Tennessee? Who doesn't like a good starling...roast...er...pie...or...something, amiright?
Surfbow, starlings are excellent eating. Dress and cook them just like dove.
If someone had a recipe I knew it'd be you my friend; )
What is an acceptable weapon for starling? TBW (the bow writer) Can you give us some more information before this starling hunt starts?
Daisy Red Ryder (old school way) lol
Is it acceptable to keep a trophy? Or is this strictly a meat hunt?
I don't know does the Audubon Society keep records on such things?
I once took an unethical 88 ft kill shot on a starling with a 177 cal. Bb pistol
I think it’s ok as long as it’s diy. Guided starling should only be allowed in the book if marked with an *
And there's no limit on starlings, and you can hunt them year-round! :) No weapon restrictions either. Eat one? Filthy birds, no way. Bug eaters, and I hate bugs. I will never eat bugs, and I won't eat something that eats mostly bugs. :^P
Kdog- I was thinking the same thing!
I officially pronounce this thread derailed. All we need is Fuzzy's starling breast recipe :)
'...for all you trophy hunters, why hunt somewhere all you can kill are spikes? (Joke some may not understand.) ' LOL, I doubt anyone on here is that thick.
ok"breast out" the starlings just like you would a dove. (skin the breast and cut it free from the wing/collarbone joints, discard the rest of the bird) fillet the muscle from the breastbone into two pieces. wash the meat and soak it in lightly salted water overnight (refrigerated) to draw out blood. Marinate overnight in Dale's or any game marinade (I use a cup of red wine and a quarter cup of soy sauce with a pinch of red pepper, sage, and cumin) skewer with veggies (I suggest mushrooms, bell pepper, and Vidalia onion) drizzle with olive oil, wrap in foil and grill ten minutes to a side over medium coals, remove the foil and grill until lightly browned. Don't overcook. Yum. Come on people, it's a bird. It's the size of a dove. It eats what a dove eats, nothing more, nothing less. It's not like you're eating a buzzard or something. Same with crows, they're tough but tasty. Fillet the breasts, pound them well with a meat hammer, bread em and fry em up in a skillet. They're (starling) an invasive species and there's no season or limit. Go getya some!
Thanks my brother! I'm going to bait up the bird feeder and get me some
Since the thread is derailed: Few things I'll shoot and not eat... coyote, coon, and starling. I was taught to only shoot it if I'm gonna eat it. Some things you learn on your own... like not eating a filthy starling :) I shot a bobcat - ate some, fair tasting. Shot a merganser - ate one bite, bland as a hatchery trout. PS, go to afirca if you want to eat something GOOD. Everything I ate there was excellent, esp. Cape buff., and really especially ELAND!!!
Eland steaks on the barbie damn makes ya wanna slap your grandma
Traperkayak, bobcat and cougar are surprisingly good. I've cooked ansd eaten raccoon and the only way I have actually liked it was as pulled barbecue. Groundhog is as good meat as there is, and I eat squirrel 2-3 times a week when I've got it. I understand food prejudices well, I've tried my best to eat possum, gotten as far as cleaning one on three occasions, just can't do it. It's all good.
PS, I still shoot possums, 'yotes and starlings, and yep, Mergansers are naaaasssssty!
I'll have to find my Korean recipe for dog it should work on yotes
I've eaten a lot of possums (not my favorite), several coons , (not bad at all). Ate a coyote backstrap onetime (only time I've skinned one that didn't stink), it wasn't bad. The grey fox was pretty tough though. Ate plenty of robins, meadowlarks and snowbirds growing up, all real good. Crows are too sweet (actually tasted like the meat had been sugared). Tried to eat a roadrunner once. Once. But, I have never ever been hungry enough to eat a nasty starling. ;)
Salagi, that's funny :) I wonder why the crow was so sweet?
The ones I killed and eaten actually had a slightly tart tang..odd, maybe a regional diet thing.
Fuzzy I don't know. One old man (a vet of the Spanish-American war) that my father grew up around during the depression told Dad he wouldn't eat crow because "it was too sweet". It may be a regional thing, I've heard of other folks eating and liking crow.
Dad also said Louie claimed the strongest meat he ever ate was a red fox and the toughest was a turkey buzzard. ;)
I’d bet there are a bunch of guys on here, that have eaten crow at one time or another.
Granny Clampitt says possum innards are just as good warmed up! I think I’d eat a starling before I’d try a nasty, greasy, grinner!
I've eaten plenty of figurative crow!
So have I but it sure wasn't sweet tasting like that real one. Didn't like it either. ;)
I wouldn’t eat a starling unless I was REALLY hungry. Those rank scavengers are the filthiest things that fly. I’ve cleaned up too many unwelcome starling nests and that rank mess is disgusting. Not a chance.
just a thought, but any poop is pretty nasty. Y'all ever cleaned out a 100-bird henhouse?
Yep. Chickens have pretty nasty habits but they still can't rival starlings. With a name like Sturnus vulgaris though what else would you expect? I have heard it claimed that a man brought them over to the US and released them because he want to introduce every species of bird mentioned in Shakespeare's plays. I have also heard that an Englishman imported them because he missed their song. I think it was simple revenge on the part of England because we had whipped them in the Revolutionary War. ;)
As nasty as they are, they are very good at mimicking other bird’s songs.
boy this thread got off track.....hahhaah
