Black Gold Sights
Remington bankrupt
Contributors to this thread:
Bowriter 12-Feb-18
sticksender 12-Feb-18
drycreek 12-Feb-18
spike78 12-Feb-18
RutnStrut 12-Feb-18
a'Lish 12-Feb-18
DoorKnob 12-Feb-18
JTV 12-Feb-18
WV Mountaineer 12-Feb-18
tinecounter 12-Feb-18
PECO 12-Feb-18
smarba 12-Feb-18
No Mercy 12-Feb-18
greenmountain 12-Feb-18
IdyllwildArcher 12-Feb-18
spike78 12-Feb-18
Shawn 12-Feb-18
a'Lish 12-Feb-18
wildan 12-Feb-18
krieger 12-Feb-18
LKH 12-Feb-18
kentuckbowhnter 12-Feb-18
cnelk 12-Feb-18
stick n string 12-Feb-18
Big Fin 12-Feb-18
Woods Walker 12-Feb-18
WapitiBob 12-Feb-18
MichaelArnette 13-Feb-18
Pigsticker 13-Feb-18
South Farm 13-Feb-18
dnovo 13-Feb-18
4406v 13-Feb-18
Pintail 13-Feb-18
Pigsticker 13-Feb-18
GLB 13-Feb-18
Grubby 13-Feb-18
CurveBow 13-Feb-18
LBshooter 14-Feb-18
From: Bowriter
Warning About Guns:

Landmark firearms manufacturer, Remington Arms has filed for bankruptcy. You think the entire hunting industry isn't in trouble? Most gun and ammunition companies report it was a terrible year. I'm waiting to see what the archery industry says.

This comes right on the heels of my syndicated column last week on the decline of hunting and fishing license sales.

From: sticksender
After 8 years of hoarding guns & ammo under the former progressive regime, consumers have probably been taking a rest for the past 16 months.

From: drycreek
Stick, that was my first thought. I have a friend who has a gun shop and he did a land office business under Obama, but just as soon as Trump was elected sales dropped into the cellar. I see the fallout from all the buying every day in the classifieds of and TexasHuntingForum. LOTS of used buns for sale. The good news is, they're not going away, they're just changing hands.

Another problem Remington has though, is that they are part of Cerebus now, and the bottom line is $$$. The quality of their firearms has slipped a couple notches and there is a complete lack of innovation or new products.

From: spike78
At 40 years old I have decided that I probably have every gun caliber I will ever need so I don't really feel the urge to buy another. If I did it would be out of want and not need. The problem with guns is that they pretty much last a lifetime and more. Good thing I do not own a Remington rifle. I agree that Obama may be the decline of sales today. The funny part is that the only gun related legislation he passed was to allow guns in National Parks so not the doomsday banning everyone feared.

From: RutnStrut
If the archery industry also takes a hit, they did to themselves. They have been pricing themselves out of business for awhile.

From: a'Lish
sticksender X2

I've definitely seen a drop in ammunition and related reloading component pricing as well.

From: DoorKnob
Might not be the end of them, maybe restructure "Remington is seeking debtor-in-possession financing that will allow it to fund is operations once it files for bankruptcy, the sources said. "

From: JTV
as the Archery/Bow companies sell more and more damned crossbows, there isnt as much of accessories need for 'em as what one can do for vertical equipment,excluding trad. equipment of course... .. and the pricing on new bows is stupid (heck, you can get a scoped rifle combo for waaay less), and if you do the work on your own bow/equipment as I do, you must have a new press or your not working on a newer bow .. ... as for myself, I'm gunned out... since I no longer gun hunt for deer, I dont need a new rifle, nor a Slug gun/ML either, what I have and all the calibers I have will last me the rest of my life... but I wouldnt mind a new O/U for upland game ;0)

" The funny part is that the only gun related legislation he passed was to allow guns in National Parks so not the doomsday banning everyone feared."

No offense but, did you wear blinders and ear puds during his time in office? If sure wasn't for lack of trying. Also, we all know he acted like a dictator but, the POTUS does not pass legislation.

Sales are down due to a conservative in office. Nothing more. And drycreek got it right.

From: tinecounter
Wonder if this has anything to do with the massive trigger assembly recall?

From: PECO
Prices on new bows are stupid. When the industry tells you last years model is a piece of shit and you must buy this years new model, and so many guys run out and buy one or more new bows every year at $1,000+ the prices will not come down anytime soon.

From: smarba
To echo Drycreek, I'm sure a lot has to do with folks stockpiling ammo & guns during the early Obama years. Remember when the ammo racks in every store were virtually empty? And sales were limited to 1 box per customer (or similar) whenever a delivery truck arrived?

I'm betting folks are sitting on plenty of hoarded boxes of ammo thinking "I'll never shoot all of this up, why should I buy more?" or "I got my AR (or 10) in case they ever got banned, why do I need to buy any more?" With the fear of banning removed there isn't any real need to make any gun/ammo purchases these days...

From: No Mercy
That recall cost them millions.

I buy firearms and bows when the old one is worn out. Needless to say I don't buy either very often. I do buy a lot of reloading components and maintenance items for my hunting tools.

I'm not surprised. Everyone was buying so many guns and so much ammo the past 8 years because of fears Obama was going to ban guns, that now the pendulum is going to swing the other way. Personally, I'm looking to find some old codger that's died sitting on 100,000+ rounds of ammo and buy them at pennies on the dollar.

From: spike78
smarba, lucky i got my AR, MA banned them last year with no warning.

From: Shawn
Do any of you know what type of bankruptcy they filed?? Just saying it may not be the end as some companies come out fine in the long run. I own several Remington guns and they have always been top quality. I would not buy some of the newer guns they have been touting though. All mine I have had from 10 to 48 years. I hope they get through these trying times! Shawn

From: a'Lish

a'Lish's Link
Trump Slump and financial maneuvering, filing for Chapter 11. Pretty interesting read.

From: wildan
Remington has been in dire straits for a while now;their quality went down hill and the trigger recall really hurt them.I have a couple old Remington rifles and shot-guns;their new ones can't compare. Same thing has happened to a lot of businesses doing cost cutting moves.

From: krieger
I've seen their pistols on sale for 2-300$ ..never have handled one, but they have some attractive prices on them. Maybe I will help them out a little..;)

From: LKH
I've got 5 Rem 700's and never a problem but my brother just got his "06 700 back. It had gone off numerous times just on releasing the safety. Mine are all at least 25 years old.

i bet they filed to get out of paying the class action for the trigger assemblies.

From: cnelk
Better delete this thread since its gun related - like the conceal carry thread got nuked

Cnelk, i had a thread inquiring about anybody with maple tapping experience pulled in the PA forum. Never done it before but messing around with it this year to get my two little girls outside with me more. Never a PM sayin why it disappeared or nothin, just gone....Not archery related, but no different than things like mushroom hunting that seems to stick around just fine. Its all bout who ya are and who ya know. If the right ppl post it, itll hang....

From: Big Fin
When you emerge from eight years of the highest gun sales since guns were invented and you carry $950 Million of debt while your competition is flush with cash, retired debt, and invested heavily in new product development, your management is the problem, not the market.

From: Woods Walker
On the other side of the coin, when people start keeping more of their pay instead of it going to the government then you might see another uptick in gun buying because now people actually have more disposable income. I'm an example of that because I've been waiting for things to improve a bit before I buy my CC weapon. We took and passed the test last winter and have been biding our time.

From: WapitiBob
My rem 700 was garbage. The daughters shotgun lasted 15 minutes before it wouldn't cycle.

They build crap, I won't miss 'em one bit.

Then there's this "When you emerge from eight years of the highest gun sales since guns were invented and you carry $950 Million of debt while your competition is flush with cash, retired debt, and invested heavily in new product development, your management is the problem, not the market."

Archery and archery like equipment has not seen any sort of decline but the opposite

From: Pigsticker
X2 Big Fin, management is the problem! People are into guns probably more so than the 90’s but Remington is not meeting the demands of the public.

The market is flush with a lot of cheaper guns with better than average accuracy. Lots of real rifle people seeking long range accuracy have moved to custom and or semi custom rifles. Also, the black rifle craze has captured a large portion of the shooting market. I absolutely abhor ARs for hunting but they are being marketed and people are taking the bite.

We cannot oversimplify what is probably a very complex problem. Even though I do think management was asleep at the wheel.

Massive marketing strategies by companies like Savage makes them look like the gun of choice if you watch the outdoor channel. These companies have also embraced some calibers like the 6.5 Creedmoor. Many people don’t even understand the ballistics behind the round but embrace the hype and the affordable options. All the while looking really cool at the range.

Many people seek technology thinking that it makes them immediately better. Most people cannot shoot sub half minute MOA but would love to have a gun that will.

Even today if I were going to build a really accurate rifle I would be on the hunt for an older model 700 action to begin the process. They were the standard for commercial accuracy for years. I for one would like to see them make the necessary changes and stick around.

From: South Farm
Not going out of business, simply restructuring.

Having said that, if the trend is away from sportsmen type guns and more into this paramilitary look so common these days then I could care less if they do go tits up, or any gun maker for that matter. Let's get away from the banana clips and get back to the walnut stocks I say..

From: dnovo
Glad I got my model 700 25 years ago

From: 4406v
My 25 year old Remington 700 is way more accurate than I am!!! Don't see a need to upgrade a rifle that has taken an elk,2 moose, a bear, and over 50 whitetails. I have enough ammo to last the rest of my life considering I shoot about 10 rounds a year out of the gun and have over 500 rds loaded!!! I don't expect to live to be 103!!!

From: Pintail
If you look at the past you will see many companies were getting fat, dumb and happy off the panic buying during the Obama years. Remington made the first big move at the passing of the "NY Safe Act" that bashed gun owners. With a new manufacturing plant in Maryland and yet another in Alabama the bills start to pile up. Moving headquarters to North Carolina had to cost a few bucks too. Once Trump got elected, gun sales have been flat at best. This is a too much, too soon at the wrong time thing.

From: Pigsticker
4406v, increased accuracy is all about engagement at longer distance. If I limit my shots to 300 yards then I do not need the level of accuracy that I would need at a 500 or a 1000!

From: GLB
I think that the hoarding during the Obama years are part of the low sales we have today. As far as Remington, their quality has really gone down to a hit and miss. I bought a few Remington's in the past 10 years or so only for the actions. The M700 action is a good platform for a custom rifle and have a few setup for long range shooting. As far as Compound Bows and pricing goes, (wow) I bowhunt with longbows and have for many years so I haven't kept up with what the compound world was doing so I looked up some top bow prices and I was floored at the cost.

From: Grubby
I’m a machinist by trade, I know a lot of guys that made a lot of money over the past 10 years making gun parts. Crazy expansion and hiring to keep up with demand on mainly ar rifle parts. Most of them have liquidated equipment and layed off employees since the election. The demand dried up. I’m sure some of Remington’s problems stem from the same thing.

From: CurveBow
I live miles away from the Remington Ilion facility and know several people that are retired from there and also some that currently work there. Yes, the change from Dupont ownership to Cerberus (DBA Remington Arms Acquisition Company) was not a great one. Too much on the bottom lone and looking to speed up processing.

Many years ago, the Ilion site employed 2,400. Today, its likely not even 1,000. Some robotics dropped the numbers too. Employees have had weeks of furloughs recently and there has been a lot of talk about the uncertain future. Remington was at one time the largest employer in Herkimer County.

The stupid unSafe Act passed by emperor Cuomo did nothing good for Remington. I think this precipitated the move to a new facility headquarters in NC. Cerberus also owns Bushmaster, DPMS, Marlin, H&R, Barnes bullets, etc. Since the 200 year old multi-floor facility in Ilion had lots of room, Bushmasters and Marlins were brought there. Moving the old machines for Marlin caused a delay in manufacturing as the machines did not respond well to the move. Bushmasters went from Ilion to NC where laws are not as absurd. They also own a suppressor manufacturing firm located in TN I think. They petitioned the state to allow them to bring the mfg to Ilion to no avail. NYS is a state that bans suppressor ownership & manufacture. Despite Rems efforts to sway the politics, nothing changed.

I agree with Randy (Big Fin) about the massive debt. For a successful company, likely America's OLDEST manufacturing plant on the same site with 200 years in 2016, almost a billion dollars of debt. Somebody has goofed up, big time!

The whole gun industry is in for a downslide. I read many magazines and the number of new firearms (both long guns and handguns), new calibers (lots of $$ to development!) and new companies springing up is incredible. I just don't see how the market can support this. The Obummer, the worlds greatest gun salesman of all of history, is gone. I've read that the number of guns in the US doubled or tripled during his presidency. I don't remember the exact figure. But, that growth was unsustainable. THe bubble has burst!

I, like many others have more guns that I need. I will continue to buy what I want, like many others. But, I will not part with my Remingtons. I own many of them, I use them and love them. Having grown up in Remington Country, literally, I hope that they stay solvent for another 200 years!

From: LBshooter
Guns sales and ammo sales always slow down with a republican administration. Put a lib in and watch out. As far as the bow companies, they will see a slow down for sometime due to the flood of new bows each year they put out the attitude that last years bow stinks. Bow-tech was wise to purcahse Excalibur, they saw the wave of xbows popularity coming which will keep them positioned well in the market.

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