MT Combo Preference Points
Elk
I just called FWP regarding PP and was a little surprised by the answer I got. My original question was if I purchase the preference point ($50) at the time of application, would I be refunded the $50 if I drew. The answer is no it will not be refunded (not surprised by that part), but the reason was that you are purchasing a preference point for that drawing…meaning if two people had no points going in, if you purchase the point you would have preference over someone who did not select the preference point. This part surprised me a bit as I still can’t find this documented anywhere. Can anyone on here confirm this info?? I know I already got an answer straight from FWP, but I remain a little skeptical.
I did confirm that if you do not select preference point in the drawing you are able to purchase it in the preference point purchase period during the summer.
The reason I called them to was to figure out if the $50 preference point was worth it. Given the relatively high draw rate I was trying to figure if it was a good use of money. Based on what I was told it seems that you would be silly not to as it is a preference point not a bonus point, and you would very likely not draw if you didn't select it.
I was under the impression that the NR combo tags were 100% draw, with leftovers. Is that no longer the case?
Not anymore . If you want to draw you better get a point. Hunt
Montana has the convoluted and confusing system of any state. Whomever came up with it needs to be fired.
^^^^^^ This
No need to be as complicated as they make it. Needs revamping.
Yeah what's up with the Aquatic Invasive fee for $15.00? I'm not fishing for elk.
So there was 17,000 tags and 17,500 applicants. I will take those odds any day (97%+). Whether you purchase a preference point at the time of the application should not affect whether you get drawn or not this year if this is fair at all. Doesn't mean life is fair though, but can't imagine that they would do that. Can't tell from your "answers" whether or not that is true.
Just decided to check and see if I put in for the point but I guess they have changed their log in so I can't access my records now. Wow ! No notice or anything. Last year never did get my tag sent to me and got the app info in the mail in July after the deadline of march plus over 4 days I received 7 different info packets all way after the draw. Guess nothing has changed for this year!
now you have to open a portal account if you want to look at what you applied for or check your bonus points its really a shit head deal took me an hour to get mine set up
Thanks dan but I gave up and sent them an email hoping I can get it sorted out. I figured I had them fooled by putting in my buddy in Montana address to have my tags sent to but I guess they are one step ahead at screwing me up. Lol.
Mike, that's my understanding. When you buy the PP with the application, it counts towards that year's drawing. As mentioned above, odds are pretty good without it these days, but would hate to have a bunch of bonus points saved up towards a LE area and not draw the combo...
Agree with everyone's frustration with the online system. Had to create an MyFWP account to see what I had applied for.
I applied last week for LE elk, I logged into my account this AM it shows I have the aquatic species, conservation ,Base hunting lic, Bow and arrow, and when I checked on the results it says I did not APPLY for any Elk permits in 2018. also on my receipt it shows I was only charged $4.00 for elk permit app I thought that was $9.00. I bought a archery lic as last year that was a prerequisite cant find anywhere that that is the case this year. I guess I will be on the phone again with them.
It does say in the permit application packet that you need the bow and arrow license to apply for archery only permits.
I finally got through to Mt fish and game, she said there was a glitch in there new system and It showed on her end I did apply for Elk permit. I also asked her do you need an archery lic to apply for an archery elk permit, she told me NO not this year. so good luck to everybody's guess.
They do not have a traditional PP system. I think it's a weighted system. As a NR....someone with zero points can still beat out someone with 2 points. I've been trying to draw and have been collecting antelope points for about 4 years or so. Last year I put in for rifle in the 700 areas and didn't draw even with my points. Drew a doe tag but with not drawing a buck tag, the large fires and many BMA's closed up....I ate the tag.
The other challenge (as a NR) is the antelope draws are after the big game draws. I figured if I was going to travel to Montana for hunting...I'm going hunting. I didn't put in for the big game combo as they have normally had left overs and I would get one of the leftovers and draw the 700 goat tag...not last year though. They sold out the combos on the first draw. I did get on the alternate list and would have got one of the returned combos but by that time rolled around it was going into October and I didn't draw the buck goat tag. Doing it like I did, I intentionally waited to see if I drew a buck goat tag before I purchased the leftover/alternate combo. If I got the goat, I'd buy the combo but that fell apart. I was willing to go out there just for the buck goat if I drew it and forgo the combo. It was a frustrating round of events. I spoke to the FWP about why they do the antelope draws after the big game draws and was told that was so they could do the aerial surveys before setting the quotas. I told her that creates a challenge for folks trying to plan hunts. Ideally it would be nice for planning purposes to have all the draws at the same time.
Weird that she said you don't need a bow and arrow license to apply for the archery only permits. It does say in the 2018 permit application packet, under Bow and Arrow License "a bow and arrow license is required to hunt during archery only season, in an archery only district or when applying for an archery only permit"
I didn't apply for an archery only unit but it automatically put the bow and arrow on like the aquatic species , conservation and hunting license !
The points you buy just put your name in the drawing one more time for each point, increasing your odds but not guaranteeing anything.
I am surely not going to pretend to understand everything regarding the system, hence my post. But, I am confident that when it comes to the NR combo drawing these are preference points and NOT bonus points as are all the other drawings in MT. I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with how Montana does their drawing, but all of the small yearly changes that have taken place in the last 5 years have turned this into something that is more complex than it should be, and their documentation and online licensing system has not caught up. While minor, as I have looked at this closely their are small omissions/errors from the reg booklet to the application booklet to the website...and not to mention the licensing system.
From the regulation booklet: Preference Points Note: A person can purchase one bonus or preference point per year; either at the time of application or between July 1st and September 30th in the current year. Preference Points are used for nonresident combination licenses and increase the likelihood of obtaining a combination license.
Preference points essentially move you ahead in line. For instance, a person with three preference points is in front of the person with two, and so on.
75 percent of all combination licenses awarded via the drawing will be issued to hunters with preference points.
All preference points accumulate over time until you obtain a combination licenses.
If you wish to take part in the Preference Point Program for your Combination License, make sure to check “YES” on the preference point question and include the additional $50 fee. If the box is not marked, you will receive your money back and go into the drawing as “no” preference points.
Preference points accumulated will be used during the current drawing whether you purchase an additional preference point or not. Any accumulated preference points are lost after two years of not applying for a Nonresident Combination License.
I have 3 bonus points and 1 preference point ! Whats the difference ? They tell you what a bonus point is but no info on a pp. If they are the same why show them different and I should have 4 bonus points. No its not confusing !
Also I could have been buying bonus points/ preference points for longer but was told that they were a waste of money because everybody gets a general tag LOL and the bp expire. Well according to their site they don't expire well which is it ! Starting to think I would be better off if my buddy never told me I could hunt mule deer on his ranch as now I'm fixated . And if you thinking why not call the DNR well I usually would call the DNR to get an answer from the people who should know. But I have called and emailed now several times and I'm even more confused now !! I was last told that the reason I couldn't log in or create an account was because I am Canadian and the designers did not take that into account so their IT is trying to fix it no time frame. I looked at their log in and their is nothing about requiring a US address to create an account so I tried again. Well after 7 attempt it finally went through so now I have an account again but of course it won't link to my former ALS# agggghhh !
I don't claim to know everything, but I've been hunting deer and elk in Montana since 2000. Back when the breaks were unlimited permits, just apply. Anyway, this is my understanding:
Preference points apply to the Combo Licenses. They're a true PP. He with the most points gets the license. Bonus points apply to species. You get an additional application towards elk, deer, whatever which statistically improves your chances of drawing (points are squared in Montana).
Preference points for elk and/or deer....think general tags. These are true preference points. Individual with preference points gets the tag in front of the individual without preference points.
Bonus points for elk and/or deer....think limited entry permits. Bonus points never guarantee a permit, they just provide better odds of drawing a permit.
And whats the deal with permits and general tags. There is no permit where I hunt but its a general tag. Oh but I have to put in for it in a draw and for a permit if I needed one ok guess I just don't get it ! So what if I get drawn for a permit but no general tag or is that even possible Agghhhh !!! Do the people that put in for a general tag and a permit have preference over the ones who just want the general tag ? Bang Head !! Maybe I'll just go back to Kansas this year :)
Oh and hey if you want to hunt a mule deer don't put in for a deer combo put in for a big game combo because even though you don't want it (elk tag ) its better odds makes sense just turn in your elk tag that screwed someone else from getting it !
Timbrhunter. It's okay, they put the returned elk tags back on the market. It actually increased the number of hunters who get to go.
