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The Great De-Bait...again
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Bowriter 05-Mar-18
JTV 05-Mar-18
ohiohunter 05-Mar-18
Timbrhuntr 05-Mar-18
JTV 05-Mar-18
keepemsharp 05-Mar-18
pointingdogs 05-Mar-18
walking buffalo 05-Mar-18
7 Points 05-Mar-18
Killbuck 05-Mar-18
Elkhorn 05-Mar-18
ohiohunter 05-Mar-18
Killbuck 05-Mar-18
SBH 05-Mar-18
Elkhorn 05-Mar-18
drycreek 05-Mar-18
12yards 05-Mar-18
Jaeger63 06-Mar-18
Kodiak 06-Mar-18
ACB 06-Mar-18
Bowriter 06-Mar-18
ACB 06-Mar-18
ACB 06-Mar-18
Rob Nye 06-Mar-18
JL 06-Mar-18
Genesis 06-Mar-18
1boonr 06-Mar-18
Ollie 06-Mar-18
Jaquomo 06-Mar-18
buc i 313 06-Mar-18
Bowriter 06-Mar-18
Ambush 06-Mar-18
tradmt 06-Mar-18
Ambush 06-Mar-18
APauls 06-Mar-18
Timbrhuntr 06-Mar-18
Rob Nye 06-Mar-18
buc i 313 06-Mar-18
Ambush 06-Mar-18
drycreek 06-Mar-18
Bowriter 06-Mar-18
Ambush 06-Mar-18
Jaquomo 06-Mar-18
ohiohunter 06-Mar-18
Ambush 06-Mar-18
Timbrhuntr 06-Mar-18
Bowfreak 06-Mar-18
Bowriter 06-Mar-18
buc i 313 06-Mar-18
Timbrhuntr 06-Mar-18
Swampbuck 06-Mar-18
Jaquomo 06-Mar-18
Ambush 06-Mar-18
jjs 06-Mar-18
From: Bowriter
05-Mar-18
Once again, the baiting issue is coming to the fore in TN. And once again, I am amazed at some of the comments. IF a state, any state, is opposed to CWD, then it must oppose baiting. How can it get any simpler than that? Simple analogy. How is a child most likely to catch a cold or the flu? A- From playing on a baseball field or the backyard or, B-From sitting in a doctor's office with other sick children? That is exactly the difference between using feeders and baiting and crop fields or food plots or natural foods. Forget the debate about ethics or sportsmanship or hunting ability. That is a personal problem. But if you are concerned about the spread of diseases, either through aflatoxins or bodily fluids and still vote for legalized baiting....Here's your sign.

From: JTV
05-Mar-18
agree ...

From: ohiohunter
05-Mar-18
I don't think you'll find very many opposing views here, but the sad part is there are hunters out there who have to have to have to hunt over bait. In their mind its as critical as their weapon or boots.

Life is hard. Its even harder if you're stupid. -John Wayne

From: Timbrhuntr
05-Mar-18
I hope you don't advocate small food plots ! Lol here's your sign too funny

From: JTV
05-Mar-18
there are those that would never kill a deer, if it wasnt for human placement of bait .. their woodsmanship skill's suck, they cant read sign, no idea how to scout or read a deer woods or what to look for and how to use it to their advantage ... its the "If I dump it, they will come" mentality is all they know ... CWD, there are some that still deny the effects of it, and could care less about the herd or humans ..

From: keepemsharp
05-Mar-18
It's just like fighting crossguns, the money is against us.

From: pointingdogs
05-Mar-18
Iowa has "no bait" and I hope that it stays that way.

05-Mar-18
Want to keep CWD out of the State?

Ban Cervid Farms.... NO Import/export of Live Deer and Elk.

From: 7 Points
05-Mar-18
So tell me, why doesn't Texas have an issue if baiting with feeders causes the spread of CWD? How about other states? Why isn't it a concern in states where deer share the same water source, ie; waterholes, and catchments? Just curious? Where is the scientific fact or, is this belief being shoved down our throats?

From: Killbuck
05-Mar-18
In my opinion baiting and CWD have nothing to do with one another. Anybody that has watched deer for many years or run trail cameras have seen untold numbers of deer lick each others muzzles and lick licking branches. Much less, the act of bucks fighting/sparring has to cause some spit swapping. I don't bait but stopping it wont affect the spread of CWD.

From: Elkhorn
05-Mar-18
I agree with killbuck And lots of states and provinces that don’t allow baiting have cwd

From: ohiohunter
05-Mar-18
bc texas boys like to kill their deer in a cage.

Centralized feeding areas aren't the ONLY mode of transmission. Why does everyone on the interweb think every statement is absolute and finite? Surely bowriter could write us a 25pge long explanation, but no one would read it.

Baiting is a element WE CAN CONTROL, we can't control the drought and deer watering in one hole, we can't control a doe that licks another, but we can control baiting.

From: Killbuck
05-Mar-18
Nobody has listened to Bowriter since the Preparation H thread.

From: SBH
05-Mar-18
Which states have the most problem with CWD? MT does not allow baiting and we now have multiple cases. Let me be clear, I'm not wanting baiting to be allowed in my state but I don't think baiting is the issue.

From: Elkhorn
05-Mar-18
Wisconsin Colorado Wyoming Alberta no baiting sure there are many others. Prob more that don’t allow baiting that have cwd then those that do

From: drycreek
05-Mar-18
I think John is baiting..........

From: 12yards
05-Mar-18
I spent 6 years in the UP of MI. Was the first place I heard of baiting deer. I shot my first deer with an arrow over there over a bait pile. I literally could have shot a deer every day that I hunted. It wasn't for me so I started hunting trails into young clear cuts and had just as much success shooting deer that weren't on high alert. It is deep in the culture up there. I think a lot of guys can hunt/interpret the woods up there, they just like to see deer all the time so they default to baiting. I'm glad it's not legal in MN. I think baiting fosters competition for deer. That said, I've seen food plots draw deer off of public ground and onto private ground as well.

From: Jaeger63
06-Mar-18
Feeding thru a deer feeder or a small micro food plot? Is it baiting or supplemental feeding thru the most stressful times of the year to benefit the deer herd? I guess its called baiting if you kill a deer over a feeder but its ok to kill one over a food plot during hunting season. Is this correct or am I missing something? I honestly can't see the difference. I can see where deer would be more spread out over a large food plot with less chance of spreading disease but what about the micro food plots that seem to be getting more and more popular?

From: Kodiak
06-Mar-18
What about salt/mineral licks? Serious question.

From: ACB
06-Mar-18
Thought sure with CWD on our door steps this issue would have died and the actual enforcement of illegal bating would have become mission number one.

From: Bowriter
06-Mar-18

Bowriter's embedded Photo
Bowriter's embedded Photo
So there be no confusion about my stance, this is a sidebar I provided free of charge to my syndicated newspapers two weeks ago.

Sidebar for Immediate use:

CWD Found In Mississippi Deer.

On January 25, 2018, a 4.5-yr. old male deer died of natural causes in Issaquena County, MS. The deer was later found to have died of Chronic Wasting Disease-CWD. This is the first case ever reported in MS. Supplemental feeding was immediately banned in six counties. It is now illegal to bring an intact deer carcass into TN from MS. CWD is the current disease du jour in the deer family. It is a prion borne disease that according to the experts, affects only cervids-members of the cervidae family. In other words animals such as deer, elk, moose, and caribou. There is no indication it can be transmitted to humans. It has been found to be present in 22-states. It is this writer’s opinion, it is and has been for some time, present in any state that has a cervid population. It is also this writer’s opinion. The two biggest threats in the spread of the disease are penned animals and supplemental feeding.

CWD can often be identified by the certain signs in deer. Once in the host’s body, prions transform normal cellular protein into an abnormal shape that accumulates until the cell ceases to function. Infected animals begin to lose weight, lose their appetite, and develop an insatiable thirst. They tend to stay away from herds, walk in patterns, carry their head low, salivate, and grind their teeth.

So far, it has not been found in TN. However, it is this writer’s opinion, it is here and has been for many years. I would not suggest eating the meat of any animal, including deer that appears to be sick and for sure, report any deer found dead of natural causes. ###

Cutline:

#1- I have long been an opponent of supplemental feeding of wildlife. Although it is great to view them in your backyard, you may well be contributing to the spread of disease.

It is important to understand, (most intelligent readers do), the blend of factual information and author opinion. Some facts are indisputable but a writer can also interject his/her opinion.

From: ACB
06-Mar-18
Bowriter did you attend the Southeast study conference in Nashville this year?

From: ACB
06-Mar-18

ACB's embedded Photo
ACB's embedded Photo
In this study a monkey got CWD after eating meat from a deer with CWD. Be cautious.

From: Rob Nye
06-Mar-18
Every cattle farm and lots of grain farms in Saskatchewan has a s___load of deer feeding there all winter. One close to home here likely has 200 deer a day feeding in the bin yard. So will the government shut down farming if they shut down deer baiting?

From: JL
06-Mar-18
From the things I have read.....anything unnatural that can congregate deer or facilitate a diseased deer's movement should be a concern. Baiting, bait plots, licks, water tanks/holes, bedding areas, APR's/dispersal, etc. Unless Tennessee is doing massive testing, they do not know if CWD is present and/or the prevalence rates.

From: Genesis
06-Mar-18
I think a lot still needs to be learned of spongiform encephalopathy whether CWD,Mad Cow and the human form CJD.I prefer a proactive stance to reduce contact even if such stance is shrouded in a little ignorance as we learn.

I have deer all over my back yard but refused to supplement them in any way,never have,never will.

From: 1boonr
06-Mar-18
Now if we can just get them to stop licking each other, eating at the same oak tree and herding up in the winter.

From: Ollie
06-Mar-18
"So tell me, why doesn't Texas have an issue if baiting with feeders causes the spread of CWD?" Nobody said that feeders causes the spread of CWD. Feeders cause deer to congregate in a small area where close interactions with each other increases the odds of transmission through saliva and/or other body fluids. Why would Texas change their rules regarding use of feeders if they have not detected any problems with CWD in the state?

For those of you who try to equate your feeders with food plots...it would be a complete waste of time to try to convince you otherwise.

From: Jaquomo
06-Mar-18
CO studies along the Front Range found much higher percentages of CWD in areas where deer densities were higher, especially around where people put out salt/minerals to attract them to watch and photograph. This may be how CWD made the jump to moose, since moose don't interact with deer or elk otherwise.

They know one of the primary vectors is mature bucks interacting with does and spreading it to them. Any sort of unnatural attractant will concentrate does, will concentrate saliva, urine and feces, and will attract more traveling infected bucks, especially during the rut.

If you get caught with a salt/mineral block you get a fine. Ranchers in CWD zones are required to move their cattle blocks in a rotational schedule, even on private land.

From: buc i 313
06-Mar-18
JMHO,

The current data is not complete on much of the true cause of this disease.

There may be many causes of CWD, and other related disease associated with baiting, commercial deer farms etc. However the current data just isn't enough proof to convince all who bait.

Personally, I for one do not believe in baiting. I do not believe I can call myself a hunter if I bait.

However I do believe I could call myself a harvester.

:^}

From: Bowriter
06-Mar-18
Ollie posted-""So tell me, why doesn't Texas have an issue if baiting with feeders causes the spread of CWD?" Nobody said that feeders causes the spread of CWD. Feeders cause deer to congregate in a small area where close interactions with each other increases the odds of transmission through saliva and/or other body fluids. Why would Texas change their rules regarding use of feeders if they have not detected any problems with CWD in the state? For those of you who try to equate your feeders with food plots...it would be a complete waste of time to try to convince you otherwise."

This is an excellent post. Proponents have long used Texas as an example of feeding/feeders not contributing to CWD or any disease. My question has always been, How do they know?

From: Ambush
06-Mar-18
Quote "I do not believe I can call myself a hunter if I bait."

Thousands of bear "harvesters" just got a kick in the nuts.

From: tradmt
06-Mar-18
Plus, baiting is gay.

From: Ambush
06-Mar-18
Now a kick in their gay nuts.

From: APauls
06-Mar-18
I'm interested to see what happens with places like Saskatchewan that already have CWD and also allow baiting as CWD becomes a more hot button topic.

From: Timbrhuntr
06-Mar-18
I think its just smoke and mirrors for the anti-baiters to finally get their way and stop baiting but keep all their bait plots !!

From: Rob Nye
06-Mar-18
Vast majority of the deer infected here in SK are mule deer which very seldom frequent baits. My previous post begs the question if baiting is outlawed because it concentrates deer will farming also be banned? How about winter logging operations, scrape lines, natural mineral licks, food plots and travel corridors?

From: buc i 313
06-Mar-18
Ambush,

This thread is about CWD, i.e. is baiting a cause of infecting deer ? Does feeding deer and commercial deer pens have a correlations to the spread of CWD ?

Now I'm not gay and I do not wish to be kicked in the nuts.

This said, I do understand the difference in hunting over bait for Bear vs deer.

Plus I'm not aware of ANY case of CWD, infecting Bear.

IF there is such a case please advise.

:^}

From: Ambush
06-Mar-18
buc i, I simply paraphrased other posters whom also made no mention of "deer only" concerning baiting. And so far I have learned that if you bait, you are stupid, you are not a hunter and you are gay. Not my statements.

And by bait I have to guess that includes any and all man placed, man made or man cultivated substances.

And how can baiting one wild animal be ethical and another wild animal not?

From: drycreek
06-Mar-18
FTR, Texas HAS discovered CWD in parts of the state. The first place was far WTexas on the NM border. The second place was......a deer farm. Surprise, surprise ! It's just a matter of time until it's "discovered" everywhere. I personally believe it's been here and everywhere for years, it's just a matter of testing enough deer to find it.

As for baiting, I think that practice started here in the Brush Country of STexas. If you've never been there, you're in for an eye opening experience. It's a sea of brush and cactus, and you will have very little luck finding trails and pinch points that a human being can actually traverse. The trails are tunnels in the brush, and the "trees" are about 5' to 7' high. Leave your treestands at home, corn the senderos, and shoot your deer. Like it or hate it, it will never change here. Too many folks with too little time and lots of parents trying to get their kid on a deer.

From: Bowriter
06-Mar-18
"And how can baiting one wild animal be ethical and another wild animal not?"

Who said it was?

From: Ambush
06-Mar-18
Being Bowriter, I assume you are also a reader. I don’t believe you mean that as an actual question.

From: Jaquomo
06-Mar-18
70% of voters here in CO decided baiting for bears wasn't ethical. Thankfully they've never been asked to vote on deer baiting since it's already illegal.

From: ohiohunter
06-Mar-18
Buc, bear and deer are not in the same order, not all diseases are capable of CST... cross species transmission.

From: Ambush
06-Mar-18
I wonder what percent of that seventy percent were bear hunters?

From: Timbrhuntr
06-Mar-18
Exactly

From: Bowfreak
06-Mar-18
I don't care if one hunts over bait or not. It makes no difference to me with regard to ethics or even cwd. I feel the CWD threat is way overblown but I realize I might be in the minority. I have used bait plenty of times but would love it if it we're illegal in KY. I feel it just destroys a deer's natural travel patterns and habits. It also makes them way more skittish and difficult to hunt even if you don't bait.

From: Bowriter
06-Mar-18
"Being Bowriter, I assume you are also a reader. I don’t believe you mean that as an actual question."

The question is, at least for me, why is it a matter of ethics? If it is legal and that is how a person wants to hunt, who am I, or for that matter anyone, to question the ethics. Ethics is a personal matter. It is up to each hunter to decide what is and isn't ethical. Some consider shooting a young deer or deer fawn unethical. Some consider using a crossbow unethical. But those are personal decisions. In many areas, the only way to hunt bear with any degree of success is over bait. Many who do so would consider running them with dogs, unethical. But not mountain lions.

So, is hunting over bait unethical, in my opinion? No. However I do not consider it hunting as much as it is just shooting. You aren't hunting the animal, you are just sitting there, waiting to shoot it. It is a lazy man's method.

But what is it really? It is another way to market products that make killing easier. It has no biological upside. In fact, it is the opposite.

From: buc i 313
06-Mar-18
Ambush,

I did not realize you were simply paraphrasing other's, and not your statements.

Thank you for the clarification.

The hunting of a cultivated field i.e. farmer's field or an apple orchards or a bean field or a food plot is different than a pile of bait or a canister spreading bait. To a deer it's just another opportunity to browse (unless one has magic dust in it) IMHO, a food plot is way over over rated.

To label these area's as a bait station is kind of, "a splitting of fine hair".

Personally, and I do believe I said,

"Personally I do not believe in baiting", I cannot call "myself a hunter" however I do believe I could call myself a harvester. I cannot find where I mentioned anything about ethic's ?

This is my personal belief. I for one just do not believe I need to bait / program a deer in order to be successful.

If a person needs / wishes to bait in order to be successful that is his or her prerogative. I do not believe this makes them stupid, lazy, gay, immoral, or Satan, or anything special.

Just not my cup of tea.

* OhioHunter,

I believe my question was, I am not aware of any bear being infected with CWD, if so please advise ?

Sure happy to know a disease cannot cross species. Is this confirmed by the CDC ? Center for Disease Control, or by a reputable scientific agency ?

:^}

From: Timbrhuntr
06-Mar-18
So a small area with turnips or corn left standing is just natural when all other fields have been harvested.

From: Swampbuck
06-Mar-18
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there things that we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.

IMO Hunt how you want, hunt legally, you have to look at yourself in the mirror, J

From: Jaquomo
06-Mar-18
Buc i, the CO CPW has tried very hard to get CWD to jump to predators with no result. The most recent collared lion study found that they tend to prey more heavily on infected animals than the infection percentage in an area. They've been studying CWD extensively here for 50 years.

To the question about how many of the 70% of voters who voted to end bear baiting and hounds were bear hunters, probably not many. But quite a few hunters were outspoken about voting to end it.

I don't recall who said this, may have been Shane Mahoney, but the only reason hunting is still legal today is because the general public still approves. What we, the 5%, believe has little relevance in the big argument.

From: Ambush
06-Mar-18
Shane Mahoney is quite right and in BC we just lost our grizzly hunt on that very fact.

So Bowriter, you do not consider shooting bears over bait to be hunting?

From: jjs
06-Mar-18
Mn is still no bait and no x-gun for the masses, keeping the good fight.

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