Moultrie Products
NM non-resident sheep draw?
Wild Sheep
Contributors to this thread:
coonazz 07-Mar-18
sticksender 07-Mar-18
JRABQ 07-Mar-18
painless 07-Mar-18
coonazz 07-Mar-18
JackPine Acres 07-Mar-18
DL 07-Mar-18
lamb 07-Mar-18
RamDreamer 07-Mar-18
swampokie 07-Mar-18
TurboT 07-Mar-18
JRABQ 07-Mar-18
TEmbry 07-Mar-18
IdyllwildArcher 07-Mar-18
TEmbry 08-Mar-18
IdyllwildArcher 08-Mar-18
pav 08-Mar-18
Orion 08-Mar-18
DonVathome 08-Mar-18
TXHunter 08-Mar-18
Charlie Rehor 08-Mar-18
sticksender 08-Mar-18
IdyllwildArcher 08-Mar-18
ELKMAN 11-Mar-18
ELKMAN 11-Mar-18
Trial153 11-Mar-18
Treeline 11-Mar-18
ELKMAN 11-Mar-18
JRABQ 11-Mar-18
TEmbry 11-Mar-18
StickFlicker 11-Mar-18
JRABQ 11-Mar-18
Orion 11-Mar-18
TEmbry 12-Mar-18
TXHunter 12-Mar-18
ELKMAN 12-Mar-18
smarba 12-Mar-18
WapitiBob 12-Mar-18
TXHunter 12-Mar-18
HDE 12-Mar-18
ABQBW 08-Apr-18
From: coonazz
07-Mar-18
Is there any chance in a non-resident drawing a sheep tag in New Mexico - specifically a ram and not a ewe tag? With resident hunters eligible for 84% of the tags, outfitted hunters get 10%, and nonresidents applicants are eligible for up to 6%, it doesn't seem possible when no sheep unit has more than 5 ram tags.

From: sticksender
07-Mar-18
Yes one tag each for Desert and Rocky in the NR draw. Huntin' Fool has the odds in the non-resident draw at 7/100ths of 1% for Desert and 8/100ths of 1% for Rocky. That's 1 in 1428 for Desert and 1 in 1250 for Rocky. There is also the outfitted draw for which anyone, NR or Res, is eligible. Odds are fractionally better, but still very remote.

From: JRABQ
07-Mar-18
They got around the quota issue by going to only 2 hunt codes for rams (desert and rocky). Then for each of the hunt codes you can pick 3 "Hunt areas". So the quota is effectively used at the total # tags issued level, not at each individual "Hunt area". Non-residents will draw 1 desert and 1 rocky tag, but which "Hunt area" they draw is completely determined by who gets successfully drawn first.

From: painless
07-Mar-18
Don't waste your time:)

From: coonazz
07-Mar-18
So you're saying there's a chance...

:)

07-Mar-18
Hunt an Aoudad ram in West Texas. Great adventure and trophy. Not the ones coming to a feeder, the ones on big ranches with mountains.

From: DL
07-Mar-18
Definitely on my list jack.

From: lamb
07-Mar-18
why wouldn't you put in. somebody's going to win and if you don't draw you get your dough back

From: RamDreamer
07-Mar-18
The odds were 1 in 1,377 when I drew the NM desert tag (there was only one available at that point in time).

Someone has to draw...

From: swampokie
07-Mar-18
I cant put in because I cant/wont front 3200$ The price is nuts and the odds are nuttier!

From: TurboT
07-Mar-18
It was my understanding that the 1 nonresident tag would be filled by the outfitter pool and not the nonresident draw. So is there actually a tag for the nonresident non outfitted?

From: JRABQ
07-Mar-18
"So is there actually a tag for the nonresident non outfitted? " Yes, there is one non-resident tag, and two outfitted tags for each species. The year they changed the quota there might have been only one outfitter tag because of the hunt code structure.

From: TEmbry
07-Mar-18
Don’t waste your time I’ve got the inside scoop and already found out I drew this year :)

07-Mar-18
"why wouldn't you put in"

Because you have to front NM G&F $3200 for a few months for horrible odds. That's a reason. Hell, if it were just a fee, I'd throw my name in the hat, but my money makes me money when it's in my possession. I want my money sitting in the markets, not in the hands of various states. I play the game where the odds, present or future, make it worth it to me. For instance, I put in for elk in NM. But not for sheep. Those odds make it worth the $10 in Utah, but not borrowing 3 grand to NM.

From: TEmbry
08-Mar-18
Just put it on a cc, depending on when your bill cycle ends half the times you get refunded before you even start paying interest. I agree it’s annoying to front the insane costs up front, but they aren’t the only state to do so. I think CO odds will tank even further now that they did away with this practice.

08-Mar-18
If that were the case Trevor, I'd consider it, but it isn't. In NM, even if you wait till the end of the app period, you're going to pay a month's interest because they don't refund till about 2 weeks after the draw. So you pay the full month's interest and the 2nd month's (two weeks of the 2nd month until they refund you) interest is compiled on a daily basis and you pay for each day even though you get refunded.

It's still not that much money non-refundable to put on a card, but for 1 in 1400 odds... It's ridiculous that they charge that much for the tag in the first place and ridiculous that they ask for the fee upfront with such crappy odds. I guess I won't do it more out of protest than cost.

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you put in for every animal in every state that wants the tag price upfront (prior to CO changing this year), the cost was somewhere around $45,000 (by memory, could be wrong) last time I added it up. I'm not keeping those kind of cash reserves and I'm not putting that much money on credit cards.

EDIT: Just added it all up. I'm remembering $42,000 and that's about right if you also figure in WY bison and add in when MT used to require sheep, moose, and goat tag money up front. It's much less now that CO doesn't require anything up front and MT doesn't require it up front for sheep, moose, and goat.

From: pav
08-Mar-18
Once upon a time, New Mexico was one of (if not the most) non-resident draw friendly states in the country. That all came crashing down a few years ago when tag allocations, especially for the DIY guys, tanked. Like Ike, I still apply for elk, but refuse to apply for sheep under the current process.

From: Orion
08-Mar-18
Last year the results and refunds were back two weeks after the deadline way before my credit card was due. Even if the refund misses your billing cycle pay it off and there isn't any interest. Not sure what idyllwild is talking about.

From: DonVathome
08-Mar-18
I put in for over 50 tags all over each year. NM for elk, ibex, cant for oryx (drew) deer but not sheep, odds are far to bad to waste the time and money - and again that is RARE for me to say. It is not rocket science there are far better bangs for your "buck"

From: TXHunter
08-Mar-18
Well, I have one sheep left to complete my slam - the rocky. So I will keep putting in every year in every state that has an available tag. Which is what I’ve always done. Which is why I’ve drawn not one, but two, OIL tags. But I like all the naysayers who discourage others, helps the odds.

If you want to hunt an animal badly enough, you’ll put in for it. If you don’t, you won’t.

08-Mar-18
Maybe play the state lottery’s then if you win you can hunt all species when ever you like. Not kidding.

From: sticksender
08-Mar-18
I look at it this way.....you only live once and it's a short stint. With extreme luck or diligence, you may get to bow-hunt a bighorn ram once or twice in your lifetime. The few dollars in interest losses that I experience each year in NM will not haunt me on my death bed! For that reason, I'll probably continue to apply in NM, and even other long-shot, no-point-system states like Oregon and Idaho, in spite of the minor expense and inconvenience.

08-Mar-18
Perhaps NM has gotten quicker. The last time I took a close look was a few years ago when I looked at my elk refund for this very reason. I definitely did see it cycle on my bill.

From: ELKMAN
11-Mar-18
JRABQ: So your saying that there is only one Non Res. Tag available across the board for all the areas and all the people who apply for them? Either Desert or Rocky? So essentailly there will only be 2 non res. DIY each year that get sheep tags in NM? If that is the case I am out. I always though that they gave one tag per area to the non res guys.

From: ELKMAN
11-Mar-18
Idyl: It does cycle on your bill, and by the time you get the refund it cycles twice. I have been just paying the bill off the first cycle every year with cash and then putting it back in my savings when refunds come out, but if what JRABQ is saying is true it is truly a waist of time in my opinion, and completely ridiculous, and unconstitutional if even half the sheep are located on federally held land...

From: Trial153
11-Mar-18
Outfitter welfare really killed NM nonresident opportunities. Unfortunately this happening incrementally all over.

From: Treeline
11-Mar-18
Elkman, yes. Several years back when they changed up the drawing for sheep, there was a year or two where no non residents drew.

From: ELKMAN
11-Mar-18
Wow. Okay. So that is correct then?

From: JRABQ
11-Mar-18
At the risk of beating a dead horse, here is my recollection of the history and the status. I do not want to get into an argument of what is fair/unfair, unconstitutional, etc. It is what it is. And that horse is a bloody pulp.

Roughly 6 years ago (don't remember the exact year), the NM state legislature adjusted the quota splits from 78/12/10 to 84/10/6; Res/Outfitter/NonRes. Before this change, there was NO quota on Bighorn Sheep, Oryx, Ibex, and maybe Barbary. One or two years before the change non-Res drew 15 of the 16 available Desert ram tags.

With the new quota applied to sheep there generally were not enough tags (typically 1-5) for each hunt code to round up to a NR tag. This all happened in Jan-Feb time frame, there was nothing NMGF could do about it before the draw deadline. They did issue one or two outfitter tags. I think it was the following year (might have been 2) where they reconfigured the "Hunt code" structure so now there are usually 1 NR and 2 Outfitter tags issued for each species. Realize there are only ~24 tags for each species available each year.

Regarding credit card cycles, interest, etc. Last year NM got the draw done and refunds posted within 3 weeks of the deadline (Orion says 2 weeks, might have been). Hopefully that will happen again this year. If so, with a little planning you should have no more than one credit card cycle to deal with.

If you choose to apply, good luck!

From: TEmbry
11-Mar-18
The draw odds are easily found (last year 0.7% for Deserts and 0.8% for Rockies) signing a guide contract essentially doubles your odds up into that .15% range... It’s annoying to front the funds a few weeks but I’ve wasted $13 on far worse. I still prefer this system to something like Wyoming where you hemmhorage money annually and the odds are no better.

I put in, but I don’t apply for sheep across most western states with the thought process that I’ll ever actually draw and go (coming from the guy who drew Colorado last year)... Sheep draws are my form of gambling each year. I throw away a few hundred bucks at the off chance I get lucky one of these years.

From: StickFlicker
11-Mar-18
Does the refund come in a check or do they debit it back to your credit card?

From: JRABQ
11-Mar-18
Refund normally goes back on the card.

TEmbry you missed a zero on the NR odds; 0.07% and 0.08%. Numbers agree with Sticksender post #2.

From: Orion
11-Mar-18
I applied march 20th last year and had results and credit back on my card April 12th. Way before my bill even came for the card I put it on.

From: TEmbry
12-Mar-18
Good catch JR, I mistyped (evidenced by my statement that doubling the odds would be up to .15% ha) as I posted from a snow machine break 20 miles from the nearest Road, gotta love Alaska :).

That said, the logic still stands. Your odds are abysmal in all states. NM offers slightly worse odds than others, but with the benefit of only losing $13 in the end. It's a cheap gamble in the end (if you can get over the annoyance of loaning the state 3k for a few weeks).

From: TXHunter
12-Mar-18
I have never understood all the angst about putting up the tag fees for the draw - especially since you can now use a credit card everywhere.

From: ELKMAN
12-Mar-18
It's called "interest"...

From: smarba
12-Mar-18
I never understood the "angst" but I understand the "interest" LOL

From: WapitiBob
12-Mar-18
I wouldn't walk across the road for a Sheep, I don't understand either one of them.

From: TXHunter
12-Mar-18
Sorry for the big words.

60 days’ interest on 3 grand at 10% APR is about $45. Actual out of pocket interest for the NM sheep draw is about half that. All that’s assuming you can’t afford to pay your credit card bill.

And no one gives a rip whether you like sheep hunting or not. Begs the question as to why you are reading and posting on a sheep hunting thread. Just to troll apparently.

From: HDE
12-Mar-18
If anyone is concerned about [losing money on] the interest, you'll get it back in the form of your sticky-back carcass and antler tags for your deer or elk tag. An added expense this year for game and fish...

From: ABQBW
08-Apr-18
Anyone that is making enough money to buy more than a nice lunch on $3200 over a few weeks is a better investor then me. If you have to pay capital gains for pulling money out of the market that is a different story. Put in on a credit card and pay the interest for at the most two months and NM is still one of the cheaper states to apply for sheep for a nonresident. horrendous odds put we have amazing sheep.

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