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World Record Typical Whitetail
I just read an old article where the writer states that he believes the next world typical whitetail is already dead. The article was written in 2013. It made me wonder if he is right? I was in Kansas a few years ago and invited into a guys house to see some of his deer heads. He said he does not even reach for his bow unless the deer is 160" plus. I believe him, he had 2 giant typicals on the wall. I should say he had several but 2 stood out. One I believe was over 200"s easily and when I asked what it scored he said he was not sure but knew it was a 6.5 year old as he had hunted him a few years before killing him. So what do you folks think? Is there a new world record out there and no one has bothered to enter it or just don't know what they have? By the way, I doubt the money this could mean to this individual would matter as he and his family does just fine. Shawn
I'm pretty certain that the world record is surpassed (likely dozrns of times over) by what is already in people's houses mounted or sitting in a garage/shed as a skull. I've noticed that the p.y. / b.c. club is pretty irrelevant to 90% of hunters out there. I've got 2 maybe 3 on the wall. Record books mean absolutely less than nothing to me... I know a lot of folks that think likewise.
Hard to tell where the next world record WT will come from, currently dead or alive.
Here are the Colorado state bow hunting records. a non typical-- 230, and the typical at 190, killed in the early 1980.
This was discussed a little on one of the previous Rompola threads. I know there are folks who have some large ones and as mentioned above P&Y and B&C are irrelevant to them. These folks probably choose not to bother with official scores and publicity and IMO enjoy traditional hunting for what it is....or use to be.
I think there were/are several bucks between Oklahoma and Manitoba that would beat the Hansen buck. The Kansas King and Kansas Prince were two of them. It has been an obsession of mine since Rompola made the headlines when I was in highschool.
of course its already dead....Rompola Buck!!!
I have to agree with Cath8r,,,,, just got back from my friends farm in Iowa, shed hunting, etc,,,,, this is a county, that you do not see on TV, the locals keep a low profile, and my friend, shoots 170 or up..... He does not proclaim to be a great hunter, just has great area, to hunt, the bucks just grow, for many reasons, I have see what is on his wall, and others......
He mounts his own stuff,,,, some over 200 for friends, but all non typicals, I just looked at one that was scored 219 non typ.... point is, none of them care, they just enjoy the hunt and friends..... P and Y is a good org, but most of the hunters I know just do not care ,,,,,,,,,,,,
I think fewer hunters care, than what most on this site believe.....
"I've noticed that the p.y. / b.c. club is pretty irrelevant to 90% of hunters out there. I've got 2 maybe 3 on the wall. Record books mean absolutely less than nothing to me... I know a lot of folks that think likewise."
I've noticed a lot of guys feign disinterest until they've got a potential WR, and then all the sudden their interest level changes. I also notice that a lot of guys poopoo the Clubs and either claim to have seen/killed a WR/top 10 animal or their brother/cousin/dad/boss did and have them on the wall and when/if they actually get measured, it turns out to just be a really big deer, the likes of which several are killed every year.
That said, there are certainly a lot of big deer that get killed every year and don't get measured.
That was the point of this guys article, not that folks poo-poo the P&Y clubs or B&C clubs just that they don't want everyone and their brother wrecking their hunting spots or just hunt because that is what they love to do. As I said I would say that 1 of the bucks I saw was right around 200"s but the other looked quite a bit bigger. The gentlemen did say he had 4 points over 14"s and the brow tines were at least 9"s long. It was obvious to me the G-2's were a couple inches longer then the 3's and those were the 4 longest points and the buck had really good mass. Shawn
Mel Johnson’s typical Whitetail archery record has stood since 1965. Any idea how many whitetails have been killed since 1965? Typicals don’t stay typical after 5.5/6.5 years old so this record may NEVER be broken. They sprout abnormal points and are pushed either down as a typical or measured as a non-typical. Here is a picture of Mell and his world record TYPICAL Whitetail. .
If anyone truly has beaten this buck as a TYPICAL it would have been entered if killed under Fair Chase. There are lots of big bucks killed that are never entered but I do not believe there is a world record killed and hiding in someone’s trophy room. In all of time there has only been a couple that OFFICIALLY netted over 200 inches typical.
A non-typical rack is a separate category and there are many hundreds over 200 inches.
I disagree with your statement groundhunter. If nobody cared about size, why are outfitters constantly booked even as their prices continue to go up, the price of land in trophy areas is sky high, and every emphasis on hunting products is on increasing size? If you know a handful of guys that don't seem to care, its because they have an awesome spot and are confident they will continue to see those kind of bucks. They are probably smart as well and don't publicize it too much because as tight as a spot is, poachers can still ruin it even if they don't kill anything.
Ditto, Idyl. Funny how they don't care but still know the score. LOL!
Respectively disagree with the LEGEND Himself Charlie Rehor but if Big Bucks are like Big Striped Bass good friend has seen some Monster Stripers Mounted but not entered in Onset Mass easily surpassing old world record stripers! Some guys just do not care about that stuff.
What is truly irrelevant is calling something a world record without being officially measured...... until it's official it's just a big animal. That's fine as well, whatever floats ones boat...... but no world record can be claimed.
Couldn't be simpler really. No official entry...... no world record..... and if they "don't care about that stuff" then it shouldn't bother em that it is not. I could claim the REAL WR likely died of old age and is out there under a bush somewhere. But in reality it is not a WR. It has not been officially scored and proven.
I see folks talk about 420+ elk..... that when are officially measured come to 396 net or some such. I can claim lots of things. It's what I can prove beyond reasonable doubt that matters.
I think it's very doubtful that there is a typical world record sitting around somebodies house unknown. Agree with Charlie 100% on this one.
That is why I asked the question, to see what people actually think. Again I understand how deer age and how they rarely stay clean after 5.5 years old but as we all know things happen. I am heading to Kansas again this year and will see if this guy will let me measure these two bucks. Again, I believe he could care less as he said he really only hunts for himself and I was one of the few to ever see his mounted heads. I would think that the taxidermist who mounted them would of said something as well but ya never know. Shawn
No, very unlikely IMO. There are plenty of big bow-killed typicals out there that haven't been recorded, but they're 160-180's net score type bucks. The true 200+ net typical monsters are super rare, once-in-a-lifetime freaks, that would be extremely difficult to hide, no matter who you are.
I did not read every post on this thread but get real. You think a hunter is going to shoot a W/R worth $250,000 every year plus being famous and they are not going after It? OK maybe Jay Massey might have gone that route, but he was an anomaly.
I can just imagine what the average really hard core bowhunter, who lived and worked his ass off in Kansas thinks now,,,,,,, I mean, talk about a place being over run,,,,,,, I don't think the tv crews can get their fast enough, fly in the plane quick enough, or get their stickers on everything fast enough, in that state
Are there world records laying around in sheds?....probably not...but there are definitely deer out there that warm it up with their gross score.
Imagine the uproar that would befall the hunter that presents a buck that could push the Johnson buck off his perch. That poor SOB will be suffer the worst abuse known to man. They will call him a cheat...a thief...a poacher...a wife beater...a drunk....you name it. And that`s on the FIRST DAY before they even know the story.
I can see how it would not be for everyone.
Grandpa shot a 293" typical whitetail in 1972 on the back 40 of his farm. Being from the old country, he did a Euro mount. Grandma would not let him hang it in the house. It is still hanging the back corner of his workshop. My cousin now runs the farm, he does not hunt and does not realize what is hanging in the corner of Grandpa's old workshop, which is now a storage shed and the rack is pretty much buried in there. One of Grandpa's hunting buddies was an official scorer. He scored the buck. He had a secret blood red book hidden in his basement where the group of hunting buddies would gather, work on hunting tackle, drink wine and in winter play cards. Grandpa has top buck in that book, and it was unofficially officially scored, but not entered. That book is still probably hidden in the floor joists of the wine cellar of that old farmhouse, somewhere in northeast Ohio. There were 6 hunter's in Grandpa's group. Four of them were adjoining farm owners. They were smart enough back then to keep this information to themselves.
Although this story is fiction, based on some facts, it is very possible and believable. There are world record racks out there, and live deer also that would crush the record if killed.
293 Typical. That's more than fiction. Lol
Most scores are quite inflated until officially scored.
99.9999999% of bowhubters have never even seen a true net B&C buck (170” typical) much less all these WORLD RECORDS that are walking around all over.
They are unique and ultra rare and that’s what makes them special...
Topgun, I forwarded information by a highly reputable person regarding photos of another so called world record buck Mitch was after that showed TERRIBLE taxidermy clearly apparent in the pics (bulging eyes, crooked nose, cupped ears; even stitching up the neck was apparent). MR was clearly desparate for attention in this and other behaviours I relayed to you that are not widely known. But you discounted this 100% even by your own admission the person relaying this information is well known to you and well regarded by all including yourself! Yes, there is some logic and some evidence in support of MR's claim, I don't deny that but to still believe MR's world record claim you must discount this new information 100%.
Now who do do think has more to gain and how do you think is telling the truth, a known criminal or an well regarded person with no monetary interest? Just trying to understand your logic here...at the very least, at the absolute minimum you should be honest enough to say in effect, "yes this does undermine my belief in the purported WR status of MR's buck SOMEWHAT..." But, no, you still cling to it apparently 100%. I really don't care one way or another (other than I like solving problems/mysteries), but find this behavior fascinating...
It is quite possible a WR typical claim may be a real buck, but a genetically bred buck released into the wild/farmland/ranch and killed. This will be a difficult case to sort out because the antlers can be xrayed, etc. Even DNA testing might be inconclusive. An even more difficult case would be the wild born offspring of a high scoring genetically bred buck/doe that beats the existing WR. F1, F2...Fn generations later...
Hunters hang with hunters. If someone has a WR “maybe” he doesn’t care, but someone he hangs with would and it would get out.
In the above story, one of the guys would see the dollar signs and then grandma would be OK with it. If it’s truly a WR, no one says no to that kind of money.
Stephen Tucker Tennessee buck 2016 ,scored 312
Money and fame isn't important to 'some'! And 'some' get 'short changed' and 'used' during the process. If one is hunting for these reasons, I'd say they are BOW hunting for the wrong reason! (jmho) ...... my hat is off to Mitch Rompola for keeping a low profile and the "many" others in the closet that just BOW hunt to Bow hunt! There are many that do not care about 'official' score and The Record Book and the "drama" it creates!
I am sorry Tuckers buck was nontyical.
Thornton, he didn't say "nobody". Lot's of guys don't care a bit about the book and, as stated, many avoid such reporting because it would likely work against them.
I've personally held a 6 point shed that had a inch G1, an 18 inch G2, over a 14 inch G3, with descending but, equally impressive length on the 4th and 5th points. It was incredible. I don't know the score of that one side as the guy wouldn't let me measure it. I'm guessing the main beam in the 26 range, great mass, etc..... If the other side which he never found matched this one with just normal deductions to be expected, it'd be a contender for sure. I also can take and show you a net score, unofficially, of a 178 inch typical that is missing a matching G2 off his left beam. The right one is over 16 inches long. He just never grew it. I have a 5 point shed that scores 86".
Point is, there are lots of big deer. Has been and will be. There are lots of people that could care less about the record books. In my opinion, there is a world record laying in some garage some where. And, there is more then one currently walking around in the steep, deep, tangled, boggy woods areas that you can't get into without tipping them off. Whitetail deer thrive in many places. But, they have no equal in cover for staying hidden. And, that is what they do.
The ones walking around are in fences and the next one of the future will be an escapee or bred doe from a farm with perfect genetics.
What Charlie said.....the mystique and lure of whitetails transcends media or fame.The premise of this thread even dictates that. That big buck is out there and we turn slowly at every rustling leaf a season holds.Now we are wondering if some WR WT is in a garage attic somewhere?Aint happened.
Wisconsin had another world record, but it was scored as a non typical, finally after a lot of controversy, which led to some scorers leaving,,,,,,, They do not want another buck, coming from Wis,,, that is how ridiculous the whole scoring game has become...
Where does this bias towards Wisconsin deer come from, ground hunter?!
I’d surmise it probably goes all the way back to the movie, Treasure of the Sierra Madre. “Badgers! Badgers! We don’t need no stinking badgers!”........speaking of ridiculous 8^\
I’m with Charlie and APauls on this one. People talk. Lots of rumors abound, but when the tape is put to it, they always seem to fall short, usually by quite a bit.
depends on who is on the tape,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, enough said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I doubt that a world record is in someone's garage or mounted in their home just waiting to be discovered. Too many people are aware of the money such an animal represents. The people who I know that truly don't care about the size of a buck just throw the racks in the garbage - they don't spend all the money mounting them in order to proudly display them in their living room, then act like they are above it all.
How much money are we actually talking about?
It's not difficult for me to understand that there are many out there who, if they've either gotten or may get a very high scoring animal, don't want it publicized. Look what the scrutiny of social media and "internet police" has come to!
I imagine the WR deer has already been killed. A few hundred years ago or so the Indian who did so just made some kind of tool out of the antlers! And I'm sure he made no big deal about it!
David A---Why should I believe your "highly reputable" any more than you won't believe more than one highly reputable guy that saw the buck before it was even processed and several more that scored it?!!! What I really believe after reading all your BS is that unless "YOU" are the one to kill the world record everyone else will be suspect and I'm done with this thread because I didn't need to be called out again by you for agreeing with our other member and I certainly am not going to get in another pissing match which you seem to love!
So if someone is a multi-millionaire many times over and they do not want the spot light or for that matter the head aches, they would enter it anyway?? I know if I was that wealthy I would not enter it. In my position now, I would have too as the benefits of doing so would help my family tremendously. I never said it is out there but I did say it is possible without a doubt. Shawn
And then there are collectors with gobs of money who collect art and........ and really prefer the unknown in their collections.Collections worth millions.
Millions of dollars. Literally millions, to be made, by shooting the next WR whitetail.
There's a lot of guys trying to make a living from the "bowhunting industry," be it through TV or gear, and a very few actually are. There's just not enough of us to make the pool of money big enough. I'm not saying that a person couldn't profit handsomely from shooting it, but I think the potential benefits are inflated by some.
I fail to understand how some people get so fired up and go 0-60 with the accusations/insults over this topic. There's something about big horns that brings out the worst in human nature. Can't blame people for just keeping their outdoor accomplishments to themselves....
No question about it. A whitetail that exceeds the current record is dead and may or may not be mounted. In all probability, several.
It sound slim You either believe that the biggest deer ever to walk the woods was killed and registered or it wasn’t
Idly, right now a world record typical ecsp by bow would no doubt be worth millions to the person who kills it. The story rights alone may sell for as much as 1 million. I heard 350 grand for one of the giant NT's recently killed. That may or may not be a fact but no doubt it would bring lots and lots of money. Shawn
Bowriter, you are right! I see one when I go to my dad's house!
From my understanding, neither Milo Hanson nor Mel Johnson became multi-millionaires off their success. The mounts, if they still own them, would no doubt have some value for sale to a collector or a business entity. Probably not as much as most would think though.
Topgun, when there are two lines of contradictory evidence of signifcant weight at the very minimum a logical person would be undecided or have some doubt. I'm not agitated or mad at all to have read some people thought the buck was legit after seeing it. As a matter of fact, I would love to talk to them and would right now today if I had their contact details. You can do the same yourself with said person above, but I guess your reply would be, "why should I, my mind is made up"...
I was at an old farmers place q couple months ago - had a tremendous set of antlers nailed to a plaque with cobwebs and dust blanketing it - buck was easy 180 - maybe bigger. Old fella could give a rip. Who knows.....
A guy could buy several 180-class typicals off ebay over the course of this coming year for a few thousand bucks each. Plenty of those exist. And they look ridiculously monstrous to the average person, who has never handled a buck of that caliber. On the other hand, a 200 net typical is a completely different story. Extremely rare, and only a handful have ever been documented.
"I fail to understand how some people get so fired up and go 0-60 with the accusations/insults over this topic. "
People get all worked up online on many different topics. It seems to have something to do with the brain's operating system which generally seeks to want to have clear direction rather than any ambiguity. Once a conclusion is made, it's often "don't confuse me with the facts".
Faced with, choice A or B, in survival cases it's better to choose one or another rather than to vacillate. Natural selection would favor brains which make definitive choices and stick to them (until overwhelming prove wrong) even though some of the time the choices may be suboptimal. Well, that's my theory (but I'm willing to disgard it if there is a better theory...lol).
The answer to this question is uncertain and there may or may not be a new world record. But look at all the passion in the many many different response to this question brought up. That is what brings us all out to the Woods is the inner fire we all have as outdoor men and women, and to each their own while out in the field. I hope everyone just sets their own personal goals and achieves them and will pass the sport on to others as it has been passed onto them. And until each of us have what we call proof of the next world record, rather it be on paper or in the ol woodshed hung up on a cedar beam, may we all enjoy our time outdoors.
Shawn I doubt Millions. There's an article on the new WR NT whitetail and the kid said nobody had offered him anything for it yet.
I do not doubt it, as has been said 200" typicals are as rare as hens teeth. I myself have never handled a 200" typical but I have seen and handled several 170 and one 180" typical and the deer I saw in Kansas were noticeably bigger. I have no doubt the one was a 200" deer for sure. Shawn
I would think it highly unlikely that someone would have a WR deer rack and not get it measured. I could understand that 100 years ago people may have killed huge deer and elk and not cared as all they wanted was the meat. Today though, if you went to the bother of keeping the antlers, and it was huge, then it would be getting measured.
I doubt millions too, although (somewhat disturbingly) the testicles could be worth a million if handled properly (more disturbingly lol)...to deer breeders.
One of the nation's top buyer's of antlers put a figure of $100,000 on the WR antlers for a purchase. Probably they could earn a nice annual income through show promotions and replicas, but that would involve some work.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was one out there. Lots of big racks laying around in barns, sheds and basements.
It's certainly not impossible.
"I would think it highly unlikely that someone would have a WR deer rack and not get it measured. I could understand that 100 years ago people may have killed huge deer and elk and not cared as all they wanted was the meat. Today though, if you went to the bother of keeping the antlers, and it was huge, then it would be getting measured."
***You would be very surprised how many "book" animals are killed every year and never entered into the records. I've helped my resident Wyoming buddy take 6 antelope bucks the last 6 years from the same "off the record" unit. Three of them went 80", 82", and 84 4/8". The last one was officially scored by a B&C scorer up in Cody while it was at the Taxidermist and it was never entered anywhere even though it qualifies for the all time B&C record book. Two of my friends have also taken several antelope in that unit in the last 10 years that make the all time B&C book and none of them have been entered anywhere either. Why ruin a good thing when you have a honey hole and don't want to put it out to the world and have the area overrun?!!!
From: WyoBowHunter 01-Apr-18 Bowriter, you are right! I see one when I go to my dad's house!
^^^This and for David A.---If you come back with anything negative about his post you are calling a respected member of this site a liar! You are a pot stirrer and like I said before, unless you kill the world record yourself you will never be satisfied that one is out there in his Dad's house! Your "reputable" guy that says the buck is a fake just by looking at pictures is no more reputable to overrule those reputable people up here who actually handled and/or scored the buck in question, so please take it somewhere else.
Making the B&C all time minimum, while being a great examples of that species, is NOTHING compared to the world record of that species. Compare a 168” Stone Sheep to the Chadwick Ram. Since we are talking about Mel Johnsons’s buck here, compare that to a 125” P&Y whitetail. Compare it to a 170” B&C whitey. Compare the Hanson buck to a 170” buck; NO comparison no matter the species.
The world record pronghorn is 95”. 80,82,84” pronghorn are 1000:1 to 90”+ antelope and a 95” WORLD RECORD antelope, just like every other world record is the rarest of rare. No comparison to a barely “book” animal. Different world.
Guys comparing world records to book minimum animals need to open their eyes.
Start taking pictures of these 200" deer Shawn. I'd like to see what one looks like. I use my smart phone and binocs to zoom in on the deer I photograph.
In the last 53 years there has been ZERO typical archery whitetails OFFICIALLY entered larger than Mel Johnson’s buck in 1965.
In the same 53 years there have been over 135 OFFICIAL entries in the Typical Elk category greater than the Typical Elk Record in 1966.
Whether there are racks laying around in someone’s home or barn doesn’t matter since there could be a similar amount of elk racks laying around. What is extraordinary is NO archery, Typical, Whitetails have been entered in 53 years larger than that Beanfield buck. Truly an amazing deer.
There are many 100,000’s more whitetails killed each and every year than Elk or any other specie in North America.
I think the key to understanding the unlikelihood of the world record being in someone's house, without being scored or a picture surfacing that was taken by one of his friends is extremely slim. You would have to have the multi-millionaire who is above it all, who happened to kill the deer, and no friends who would reveal the secret - truly slim chances of all those things aligning.
Here is a Peterson's Hunting article showcasing the top 20 typical WT racks. Number's 1 thru 17 are 200"+ What is of interest is some of these racks where hanging in basements or shops and someone later on got the idea to have them scored. Mel Johnson is number 4 on this list....there 3 above him.
I know of lots of really big whitetails (hanging in houses) that have never had their pics published or officially scored. I'm not saying they are world record contenders, but I've been around enough dead 200in bucks to know that not all of them go public. I think it's very possible that an unknown record has been harvested.
From: Shrewski 01-Apr-18 Making the B&C all time minimum, while being a great examples of that species, is NOTHING compared to the world record of that species. Compare a 168” Stone Sheep to the Chadwick Ram. Since we are talking about Mel Johnsons’s buck here, compare that to a 125” P&Y whitetail. Compare it to a 170” B&C whitey. Compare the Hanson buck to a 170” buck; NO comparison no matter the species. The world record pronghorn is 95”. 80,82,84” pronghorn are 1000:1 to 90”+ antelope and a 95” WORLD RECORD antelope, just like every other world record is the rarest of rare. No comparison to a barely “book” animal. Different world. Guys comparing world records to book minimum animals need to open their eyes.
***My eyes are wide open and in no way was I comparing those bucks with the top one or two in the books, so please don't put words in my mouth! All I was saying is that guys that have hunting places with great potential are probably more reluctant nowadays to come forward. Why put themselves up to all the BS and speculation that goes along with killing a big animal nowadays and some on this site fit right in with why they don't come forward because they are immediately accused of poaching, the animal was taken from a game farm or high fence, and numerous other BS comments!
"This and for David A.---If you come back with anything negative about his post you are calling a respected member of this site a liar!
Two of my friends here believe the buck is legit and they are intelligent experienced hunters...we all formulate a theory on the basis of the facts as we know them. The question is are we willing to amend our conclusions when presented with new information or we do respond by "killing the messenger" as it is popularly known.
"You are a pot stirrer and like I said before, unless you kill the world record yourself you will never be satisfied..."
To the contrary, I tend to believe most records when officially scored, but the facts in the Rompola case are so bizarre and even hilarious it just makes for an interesting mystery.
Regarding the people who handled and scored the buck, I have heard from two sources the scoring was done with the mounted head. The report of one or more people seeing the buck shortly after it was killed are sketchy at best, but I do take some of this into account and unlike you I am open to new information and am happy to amend my conclusions at any time. I'm interested in the truth vs. defending a position.
The Nebraska General was a heck of a buck. To bad only sheds were found.
There could be a world record floating around in a shed, basement or something but it’s doubtful.
The one thing that’s conclusive from the top 20 in the Petersen article is they all fell short of the record.
Charlie brings up a great point. That most bucks gain to much nontypical trash by the time they are 5.5.
Back in the early 2000’s Hunter Specialty’s had footage of a potential contender in Iowa. That story just drifted away. Never heard anything since that footage came out.
You do look at the facts David. I tend to want to believe, and would almost rather believe the mystery of it. One comforting thing I have heard from various ranchers is that the giants are rarely seen near a corn feeder in daylight.
I think this record will be beaten, it's amazing it hasn't been. Would be fantastic if another recurve hunter does it, what are the odds of that happening...but keep in mind Gene Wensel did kill a higher scoring buck with recurve...nontypical. It could by done by a newbie even, but IMO, knowledge is power...odds favor an experienced tenacious bowhunter in the right place at the right time. Imagine it's YOU and the pressure to make that shot....!
Jason you are going about it the right way and even came close to doing it up there where we hunted. Too bad last year everthing changed. You are going about this the right way and I believe you will be rewarded with a very high scoring buck sooner or later.
Hi Jason, if you would like to read the new information on this, I'll email it. Not trying to push anything you're not interested in. It was an eye opener for me, however.
Chasing Whitetails for 56 years now with a bow in new hampshire! I know of a really handsome buck that looks like he will be close to 200 or maybe just over , Typical rack. I first saw him three years ago and that year I saw him in four different places, he roams about a 6 to seven square mile area. He is still there the problem is where? I haven't had any luck finding him again and he may have died of old age? I plan on 20018 being the year that I wii be in the woods everday and looking for him rather than hunting any new areas! I have a deal worked out with local farmers , if they give me a call about a very large racked deer they have seen and it actually is extremely large I will donate 100 hours of labor provided by me on their farm doing whatever the wish hopefully this will get me a chance at a really big rack one more time before I have to give up bow hunting due to old age! Wish me luck!
Jason, I can't say more in an open forum. Thx.
I should not and will not give any names. But two, well-known men in this industry, men I believe and respect, men who have seen and measured 200" deer, both told me a story of one they held and examined that they are sure would be in the 220"-range. The hunter was determined not to even have the rack measured. This was about 15-years ago. Then, I heard about seven-years ago, he killed one bigger. In 2004, in KS, I saw a picture of one in the back of a pickup that was a perfect 6X6. I am not an official scorer but I have measured several and that is just an estimate. If I ever saw a whitetail that would go 220", the one in that picture would be it. I have seen the two current world records and this would beat both. The picture was on the wall of a gas station and nobody knew or would tell who killed it. So, yes, I am convinced there are deer out there that would be new WR's. As to what it is worth, that would depend completely on how skilled the owner is at marketing and promotion and to some extent, the circumstances of and when it was killed.
In regard to JL’s link above I was stating facts as to Archery kills OFFICIALLY entered into P&Y Clubs Record book. The majority of those killed in that article are gun kills and NONE are archery kills OFFICIALLY entered higher than the Beanfield buck of 1965.
In addition to the incredible animal it is also noteworthy that Mel shot this buck with traditional archery equipment and none of the additional equipment/advances we enjoy today. Mel sold his buck to Bass Pro many years ago and has a replica for himself and an additional one at the P&Y Club museum. He is in his 80’s now, still hunts and still lives in illinois.
Charlie, I read Mel's story and how they celebrated 50 years of it being the number 1 bow kill. My point is, killing a new WR typical with a bow would make the feat that much more special! Shawn
"Bowriter" knows a lot and is very informed. John has been 'around the horn' and I'd say his 'news' is NOT fake news. But with 'all the fake news' out there today people read something and 'think' it's true ...... not so! .... So trust what Bowriter said as 'true'! .... John earned his knowledge! Plus he knows things that most will never know!
Never say never...just ask Carl Lewis, the world's fastest man...at least until Usain Bolt came along! At the time it was believed his records would never fall. For all you know that fawn eating your wife's hostas last fall could be the next world record...ya just never know.
A friend found a perfect 6 pt shed in Idaho that scored 99”. We looked for 3 days for the other. I think I saw that buck 2 yrs before. Look out for IDAHO!!
I'm sure there's a WR from Alabama somewhere, in someone's shed, barn or home. But it only scores 195ish. Still a WR on certain folks measuring scale. :)
I didn't read the thread but no I don't believe there's a WR nailed to some old farmers garage wall.
I have a 105 inch typical 7 point shed but I still don’t believe that there is a world record typical out there that the hunter doesn’t care about. I also don’t believe that it would be worth millions. Take a look at the current hunting shows and you see a big turnover of talent. Most of these guys try to make the millions but reality sets in and they have to get a real job. There is money to be made but for only a few. When you think of the odds of killing a typical 200 incher then factor the odds of it being killed by a guy who doesn’t care or have friends that don’t care, astronomical.
Everyone knows people with large racks that aren't entered into the books. Sure, big deal. There's a big difference between a 180 and a WR. i do enjoy these fantasies though.
Bowriter - so dude posts a pic of his buck at a local gas station and no local knows who he is? Cammaaaaaaan. That stinks in too many ways. Kind of like the Rompla deal, so you go and take pics of your deer, develop them using film, either make sure to print doubles or triples, or quadruples or whatever, OR go back and print again using the negatives, just to hand them out at a random place like a gas station, then go underground cause you don't want the "fame." Oh, and nobody knows or will say who the guy is. Not buying.
As to the indians killing WR's back in the day, they would most likely have been a WR because at that time there was exactly 0 records ;) So had there been a record system they would have been #1. I killed the biggest caribou in MB with archery a few years back, got the plaque and everything. It was also the only one ;) Point being it's only a record if there are records. And the longer we keep records, the more exceptional it is to find one.
Question: How many other world records have been "found" in someone's garage/shed in recent history?
Comparing pronghorn that barely make the B & C record book to a world record whitetail is pretty crazy! But then so is continuing to claim the Rompola buck is a legit world record!
From: Drnaln 02-Apr-18 Comparing pronghorn that barely make the B & C record book to a world record whitetail is pretty crazy! But then so is continuing to claim the Rompola buck is a legit world record!
***I see you're another that lacks reading comprehension since no comparison was made in the initial post and then you obviously didn't read and/or comprehend the followup explanation either. You haters/doubters should form a club with David A. as President since you have no idea what the real story is up here, but the rack/mount is hanging right in his living room for all to see if he'd let you in if you were nice about it! I guess neither David A. or the rest of you haters/doubters have also never seen the picture of the GW and various other people surrounding the truck right after the buck was brought from the field. I guess you are also calling his son that is on this website and sees the buck whenever he visits home a liar. You all should be ashamed of yourself!
Not trying to be a smart-arse, but I found it strange that "WyoBowHunter" stubbornly refused to answer the simple question, asked multiple times on the other thread, as to where his dad's buck is now. Yet, he quickly found this thread and takes the time to make a post, unsolicited, that it's currently in his dad's house. So much for the narrative of a quiet recluse wanting no publicity or recognition.
"Bowriter" knows a lot and is very informed. John has been 'around the horn' and I'd say his 'news' is NOT fake news. But with 'all the fake news' out there today people read something and 'think' it's true ...... not so! .... So trust what Bowriter said as 'true'! .... John earned his knowledge! Plus he knows things that most will never know ! "
Herm, your the one who thinks Nancy Pelosi is HOT (just sayin ...lol..) .... I question your judgement on both ;0) .. (sorry John)
"" In regard to JL’s link above I was stating facts as to Archery kills OFFICIALLY entered into P&Y Clubs Record book. The majority of those killed in that article are gun kills and NONE are archery kills OFFICIALLY entered higher than the Beanfield buck of 1965. ""
Charlie.....the thread title was about world record typical WT's. I took that to mean by any legal method and to illustrate the point some (around 4) in the top 20 list in that article where stolen or hanging in a shop/garage before ever being measured later on. That is about 20% or 1:5.
With those numbers in mind.....is it possible for every five record book bucks, four are publicly known about and/or officially scored (BC or PY). That would mean statistically one of those five record book bucks IS NOT publicly known about and/or officially scored?
If we look at the numbers further, what is the likelihood within that 20% pool of record book bucks that aren't publicly known, one or more could exceed the Hansen buck if it were officially scored? IMO the odds would suggest it is a strong possibility.
A world record NET typical buck "in the wild" is an 8ft tall human being.........hard to hide, hard not to notice, hard for the word not to get out. I don't buy it but always reserve the right to be proven wrong.
As far as value, deer farms have crashed the value of antlers. There are four or five net typical WT deer raised on game farms that break the world record that I've seen photos of. If the Drury brothers or Lee Lakosky, for example, killed the world record over a food plot on an exclusive farm, I have a hard time believing a collector would value those antlers anywhere north of 100,000.00
It's not a game farm animal per se, but not exactly like a mountain buck in Idaho either. Another factor lowering the value of antlers is known introduction of game farm blood lines into wild deer populations such as Ohio Amish country.
I remember at the first Illinois/Iowa deer classic someone bringing in a Buck that was supposed to score 211" typical taken with a Bow. He wanted to sell it as he needed a new vehicle. He was supposedly ushered out the door by a some antler collectors and never heard from again.
Also a very reliable member of the Wisconsin Buck and Bear Club found out about a huge Buck killed with a Bow (I'm guessing about 35-40 yrs ago). He tracked it down and measured it. Would have beat the world record at the time but he didn't want to enter it as his wife tagged it so he could keep hunting.
I know of one other Buck rumored to be bigger than the world record with a bow in west central Wisconsin but the owner didn't want any recognition.
Someone mentioned a typical scored earlier that would exceed the World Record B&C typical. But was scored as a non-typical. Take a look at the Colorado typical above. Common base G2 &3 or?
After that Buck was accepted as typical another Buck from Wisconsin was submitted with the thought it would be scored the same. It would have scored 220" as a typical but was rejected as such and scored non-typical.
The Zaft buck had the same issues with a common base point. The main issue with that Buck was recovery. Which I agree with.
They're out there. It's just a matter of time.
As an example of crashing values, I just refurbished this cut-off game farm antler that scored 185 inches on one side and weighs over 7 pounds. Two circumferences were over 8 inches and I picked it up off ebay for a couple hundred bucks. It is so ridiculously big, you'd have to hold it to appreciate the enormity. I predict the game farms will grow a 250 inch Net typical in the next five years as the pedigree lines continue to get dialed in.
No crash here,that one wont come close to the "Beanfield buck" Next contestant!
From: sticksender 02-Apr-18 Not trying to be a smart-arse, but I found it strange that "WyoBowHunter" stubbornly refused to answer the simple question, asked multiple times on the other thread, as to where his dad's buck is now. Yet, he quickly found this thread and takes the time to make a post, unsolicited, that it's currently in his dad's house. So much for the narrative of a quiet recluse wanting no publicity or recognition.
***Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. First off, if I were the son like he is, I wouldn't have even come on the thread the way there are so many haters/doubters on this site! That he did IMHO speaks highly of his character. Why should he take the abuse you would have given him then like you are right now for no reason at all?! He did come on that thread as to who he was and I honestly can't remember anyone asking him what you stated. We had several nice PMs back and forth, including where the mount is and one of these days maybe I'll get the privilege of getting a look at it. I can certainly say that if I do I sure won't come on this site to tell anybody though.
I can certainly say that if I do I sure won't come on this site to tell anybody though. I doubt that! LOL
Again, I do not think the actual rack would be worth all that much, but a WR Typical bow kill would be worth a real lot. Ecsp if the person knew how to brand it and sell it. I am talking the story, the replica's, touring the shows etc. etc. I believe it would easily get that person a million plus dollars over a few years time. Shawn
Topgun, Now your agenda is clear, if you promote Mitch's deer enough, you may get a golden ticket to see it. Good luck!!!
Those values are grossly exaggerated. Thebthink could end up being the second biggest and worthless the next year. Where has any outdoors trophy ever garnered such revenue. Fur or fish. Never
From: Yttails 02-Apr-18 Topgun, Now your agenda is clear, if you promote Mitch's deer enough, you may get a golden ticket to see it. Good luck!!!
***BS! I'm not promoting anything, but I am trying to give the rack it's due after following the whole debacle as it unfolded up here and then seeing it and MR trashed by so many that have no idea what really happened. Now it looks like trashing the son is next on here! What a bunch of losers some of you are!
I didn't bash anyone, I sincerely hope you get to see it. Mitch had the chance to give the deer it's "due" and chose not to.
Top Gun........where do I send my dues for the Mitch Rompola Fan Club?.........Do they accept food stamps?!
If you do get to meet him, would you have him sign this for me?
I've got a feeling that in some random farm houses across the Midwest/Canada etc... that there's some deer hanging on walls that will never make a magazine cover. Some people Just don't care about that kind of stuff. (I've been to one of these houses in Illinois, my lord!!!!)
Bou, even Hanson has said over the past 20 years he has earned more then that. I realize it has took 20 years but look at the cost of inflation. The sad thing is we may never know cause it took forever for Jordans buck to be beaten and it may not happen for another 50 years and I will be long dead by then. Shawn
There's Mitch being "low profile" again. LOL
There are big deer out there, both dead and alive. A 92 1.4" fresh shed from Illinois sold on eBay back in February for $3,876. Link here: https://tinyurl.com/whitetailshed
It looks to me that the buck could still get larger next year. Good time to plan a hunt near Evanston! I imagine the seller got contacted by dozens (maybe hundreds) of people offering him large amounts of money to share where he found the shed. There is definitely big money in big whitetails.
Allan Ellsworth was having lunch in a small town restaurant in northern Arizona about 20 yrs. ago and while he was sipping his coffee looking out the window, here comes an old pick up truck with a bunch of stuff in the back including a large set of elk antlers. He caught up with the driver and bought the antlers on the spot for a few thousand. It was the new world record typical elk beating out the existing 100 yr. plus record from 1899 by 1/4"!!
I had the privilege of meeting Allan and he showed me the rack in person. It's bigger than in the pic and made a 400"elk look small. It had been killed in 1968 by a rancher and apparently no one knew it was that important...
How can it be bigger than in the pic? Wouldn't it be the same size?
< Mitch being "low profile" again.>
Nick, you make a valid point...!
40 years ago when antlers and scoring them was really taking off garage and shed finds of really large antlers happened often. But when was the last time you read an article of a rack killed 60 years ago that was just discovered? Rarely happens anymore. Too much publicity and too many people looking for large antlers.
I was a P&Y measurer for 18 years beginning in 1982. I live in Kansas. Yep, I have scored and seen many big racks. Including scoring what was at the time the second largest non-typical ever taken with a bow (Ken Fowler buck, 257" taken in 1988). Cliff Pickell held the second position prior to that at 249 6/8", and I have held that rack and even re-scored it for fun. Known Cliff for years. Scored several other 200" plus non-typicals.
But when it comes to typical racks, things change. Biggest I ever scored was 186". Deductions got to many of them. A 180" typical is a lot of antler. I have seen Mel Johnson's buck and stood next to Milo Hansen and talked to him while we looked over his buck. Bucks like that are in a class all their own.
I personally don't think the WR has been killed and is hiding in someone's garage. No way. The chances of keeping it hidden are miniscule. I have been shown some really big racks, but nothing that would beat the WR. I have seen a couple of sheds that if the other side matched would have been WR's, but those were years ago. And both sheds came to light and were published. I used to guess the score of every buck I measured before measuring it, and got pretty good at guessing the score. I have never seen a typical that would even come close to the WR hanging in someone's shed, and I have seen some big ones. And photos can be deceiving. And frankly, when someone gets squeamish about getting a rack scored, even if it was never entered, it usually has to do with something was done illegally.
I agree Ironbow. The guys talking about racks being "found" are hearkening back to a day when such things happened. It's been too long since antlers had value and were prized. I still believe a legit WR typical hunted fair chase has more value than a farm deer, especially if it were to come from an area where you know there was no farm influence like a lot of places in Canada. That being said, I'm not the type of guy that subscribes to the notion that a WR rack is worth millions. I could see if you quit your job earning an income off the rack in the range of $60-$80 grand at least for the first few years, but you'd have to work at it at least 6 months of the year. Which I realize is a pretty awesome deal, but it's no lottery win is all I'm saying.
T-Roy- better not use food stamps because Mitch got fired from the post office for theft of food stamps.
Ironbow for the win... excellent post my friend.
Thousands of new World record bucks are harvested every year in Wisconsin.
Problem is they are routinely harvested a few years too early.
That is all.
Good one Knob. I really doubt that such a deer, legally harvested with a bow actually exists.
There are a lot of big deer out there. I do not believe there is a world record hanging in a garage or barn or anywhere else. Typical that is. However, with food plots, locked up tight private land and such, I do believe that there is more than a few, on the hoof that would qualify, if they were to get killed. To be honest, I’m surprised the Mel Johnson record hasn’t been broke. Maybe some divine intervention at work there, on Mel’s behalf.
Think about this though..... the “Hole in the Horn “ buck was found hanging in a bar, in Ohio. Seen by thousands of people. And it had been hanging there for years. Then it got discovered!!
Ironbow- Cliff killed that buck next to my Dad's ranch back in 1968, 2 miles up the road from my farm. Huge buck for sure and my dad got to talk to him about it.
Then there is the "Nebraska General" - arguably the largest typical sheds ever. Discovery of this buck is quite the story: http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/trophy-bucks/trophybucks_naw_aa902thegeneral/
I'll stick with some "undiscovered" WR laying around some old barn or shop or somebody's man room never to be publicly advertised.
Good thing this thread wasn't about a WR non-typical in some barn or man room. ;-)
“I doubt the money this could mean to this individual would matter ”
Maybe what we think of him doesn’t matter either?
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/trophy-bucks/trophybucks_naw_aa902thegeneral/ ................ link ^^
218+" net and a possible 'nother 6-8" because of age and weathering and drying out since '58 it lost at least that much ......
I've been following this thread just for the entertainment value, as I'm sure many others have. Here's the thing. Those who say there isn't one out there in a barn or somewhere can never be proven right. Those who say there is one out there may eventually be proven right if one surfaces. I'd guess I'd like to believe there is one gathering dust in an old farm house or barn.
Well, it happened with the WR typical elk.
Notice though that all these discoveries were made in the 1980's through the 90's. Rarely does that happen anymore.
Has there been a "walking world record" typical out there? Sure, the Kansas King was potentially one such buck. But walking and legally killed and scored are far, far different.
Mitch was into scoring and entering deer. He was a member and board member of Michigan's record organization and I think P&Y and held the Michigan state record for years. So obviously he was into scoring bucks and entering them. He only went away after the controversy over the WR he claimed he killed.
"There are alot of people who are not into the “ Look at me “ highlight. Ole country boys just close the barn doors , like Mitch, and shake their head at all them city folk looking for stardom."
Yeah, he definitely wasn't into the "look at me" highlight thing.
Rompola has the record....Fake News!
"The default is Mitch has the WR"
No, since it was not officially declared a WR by P&Y, Mitch does NOT have the WR.... Who's just giving personal opinions now?
the writer f the article I mentioned to start this thread, honestly believes just as Dick Idol stated that now into the 2000's it has become rare but he believes one exists in someones attic, garage or hanging on the wall in an old farm house. He also thinks it is in Kansas. Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, or Nebraska as well as a couple other states. Like I said I believe I may have seen it but again 195"s or 220"s I would have a hard time judging. 150 or 10"s not so much but when a deer gets that big it is a whole different animal. I myself just hope if a new one is killed it is by a bow hunter actually shooting a compound or traditional bow, preferably someone right here from Bow-site!! Shawn
If it wan't for the hoopla around what arguably is an artificial category, I believe many would prefer to take a higher scoring nontypical...and that has been done with recurve, btw.
“I heard $350,000..”. Next you’ll be believing in Santa and the Easter bunny. :-) I’ve interviewed many of the top buyers and nobody has flirted with six figures, and $20,000 is very rare. Most mags couldn’t pay $100k for a story , let alone a cool million. Milo Hansen never quit his day job. I still think it’s possible if not probable. I’ve seen one I think might too Milo’s. The hunter doesn’t want to have it officially entered or photos taken and shared.
"The default is Mitch has the WR" lol trolling much?
What if the WR WT was shot by a bowhunter using the STAR method? Would the story be told? Would humanity be saved? Would we finally find out what the STAR method is?
I've watched David shoot using his method and it is dead accurate.
Directly from the new world record NT holder:
Directly from the new world record holder:
elkstabber, if I killed the WR buck I think I would be tempted to tell everyone to just concentrate on mature deer if that is your passion and enjoy your hunt. I don't think a WR buck is any smarter than another similar aged buck, just rarer because of a genetic attribute.
Kind of like a 23 year old guy, that is 8 ft tall, size 19 feet and can stand like a tripod, eh David?
Writer was the buck from Kansas?? Shawn
Well, I suspect the genes for antler size and uniformity are not linked to the genes for brain IQ...age and experience - yes, a consideration.