Contributors to this thread:
Hot water bath for Steak!!!!
I will throw packages of frozen meat in running hot water... a couple of times I forgot about it and came back and not only was it thawed...the meat was as hot as the water....I like my meat medium rare and throw it on the grill less cooking time a very consistent cooking throughout and it is super delicious. I saw there is a whole thing about boiling meat in packages...kind of the same think I think but no doubt it works great!!!!
Did you see the entire thread on Sous Vide? Once you try it you will cook all your steaks that way.
Ace thanks... I put my meat directly in the hot water I'm not regulating the temp or anything damp it off with a paper towel...saturate in olive oil..spice and salt and pepper....put it between foil leaves in my george foreman type grill ( the only way to cook wild meat in my book keep all the moisture in) and cook......can't imagine it could be better... I like eating lots more than cooking and try and make it as simple as possible......
Steak, any steak is suppose to be at "room" temp before grilling ...
^The room temp thing is a myth. A nicely seared steak should be as dry as possible on the outside before cooking, inside temp pretty much doesn't matter as long as it's not frozen. I'm not sure thawing in hot water is a great idea from a bacterial standpoint depending on how long it's in there, hopefully not long, but I suppose it would work. My mother-in-law thinks it's ok to leave frozen meat in the package, in the sink, overnight, like over 8 hours, to thaw out. Several mornings I've tossed room-temp meat in the trash at their house and gone to the store to buy her fresh stuff, it's like Russian roulette with food poisoning over there, totally gross.
"boiling" is gonna be too hot. But I think most tap water is 120-140 degrees? I like the sous vide on game to about 130, so it is possible to cook it that way I guess. Cooking it in the bag keeps all the moisture in pretty well. And with the water the meat will never get hotter than the water itself. Will cook to the same temp through and through, edge to edge. A quick sear when it's done for looks and a bit of extra flavor and it's perfect. Even for a kitchen klutz like me.....
Meat should be at or near room temps before cooking. Nearly all meat recipes recommend this. It will cook to the center faster without making charcoal on the outside.
Eddie I hate to break the bad news to you , but your mother in law is right . Meat is not going to spoil in 8 hours left out when it is frozen.
When I was stationed in California, a local butcher sold roasts that were seasoned and wrapped in butchers paper and tied up with string around the outside of the wrap. You baked it in the paper and it was probably the best roast I've ever eaten and my mom made about as good of roast as any others I've ever had and this beat it by a fair amount!
I do that all the time Surfbow. Have never gotten sick or even really thought about it. It's not like its laying there for days.
cook until at least 170 degrees in the center
Steak unlike ground meat typically has limited possibility of bacterial contamination (surface only) UNLESS it has been left out til the point decomposition starts. Even then it would take a while until the bacteria grow and can penetrate the cut of meat, UNLESS you abrade or cut it (spreading the surface bacteria).
In contrast, small scrap, misc. cuts of meat from underbelly, body cavity, etc. not properly washed can have bacteria, spores mixed in. (especially if the animal was gut shot or poorly field dressed.) Place in grinder to make sure all of it is contaminated, then eat raw or cook at low temp (if you want to get sick).
Cooking, smoking, and strong acidic marinades (vinegar, tomato sauces), salts, and alcoholic marinade all can kill most harmful bacteria if done right. Also keep you knives clean and the cutting boards too. Hot water and soap, vinegar, or 10% bleach will do the job.
You don't want e Coli, salmonella or clostridium infection. Had 2 of the three (one from traveling one from a cereal recall), you will wish you were dead while sick and even through some of the treatment..
P.S. Typically normal food preparation described above not only destroys any bacteria present but will eliminate any pesticide reside. FDA, Dept. Ag did studies on that fact.
170 degrees in the center? Of a steak? Sorry, I'll take my chances...
I’m with nick. Wild game cooked to 170 will get fed to the dog. 140 for me.
That's actually one of the great benefits of sous vide, killing bacteria is a function of temperature AND time. Yes, you can kill it by cooking it to 165 in the center of a burger, or you can hold it at a lower temp for a longer period of time. Nothing like a really thick burger cooked to maybe 135 degrees (held there long enough to kill the offending microbes) and then seared on a very hot grill or pan. Medium rare edge to edge. Steaks I like at 129. Sous Vide also results in a much moister product, it's amazing how much weight a piece of meat loses when cooked by traditional means.
I’m sorry fellas but, I don’t need a cooking technique to make meat tender, juicy, and delicious. I’m sure the new rage makes a decent steak. But, there is no way it’s going to be as good, much less better then a properly grilled steak.
I like steaks to be firm. I like them to have a sear crust. I want some bloody juice. I don’t want a flimsy, water cooked piece of meat unless I’m eating a deer neck roast. I can’t imagine anyone who can cook would feel any different. You can keep the bag goodies. I’ll keep on grilling out my goodies.
170 is no bueno!
140 or less is muy bueno!
I thaw my vacuum packed steaks in cold water, pat dry, season, and Jaccard them. They are beautifully amazing grilled medium rare.
OH MAN SURFBOW?!?!?! That sucks dude! That is literally how I've thawed every piece of meat for over 10 years and grew up that way my whole life. No one EVER gets food poisoning at our place, my parents place, or either of my 3 brothers' places. That is a totally normal acceptable way to thaw meat. I much prefer it to throwing meat in warm water. I don't know what it is but I much prefer a long slow thaw to flash thawing in hot water as it seems to partially cook it.
You really notice a difference with fish. If you thaw in hot water they smell a little even, if you let them thaw overnight or all day, they are beautiful.
Add me in to the group who throws a hunk of meat in the sink for 10-12 hours before cooking it. I've never even considered it making me sick. My daughter has been eating meat thawed that way since she was 6 months old and I don't worry about it. My wife does it with our burger meat, too. It seems a bit iffier to me, but hasn't made us sick yet and we've been doing it for years.
I have a sous vide machine. From everything I read I figured it would end up being the solution to all of my cooking problems. As it turns out, I don't like it. My wife doesn't either. It changes the taste and texture. I'd much prefer to babysit a piece of meat on the grill, or even seared in a cast iron skillet. The final product is much preferable for us.
Ok, tell you what guys, you can come on over and check out her chicken in the sink, and YOU can have it! Maybe if it's a big hunk of really frozen game meat it's fine, but that's not what she buys, it's always small cuts in clingwrap-and-stryofoam grocery store containers. Meat should be thawed in the fridge or in a sealed bag in cold water if you need it done faster (which is what I do often and works well), it should NEVER be left at room temp for more than 2 hours...it's science...
WV you do normally sear it after it's "cooked", sear it on a grill or a hot skillet to whatever degree, turn it into charcoal if you like. If you like bloody rare you can cook it to bloody rare. Point is you can pick whatever you want it done to within a degree. It never touches the water, only it's own juices inside the bag with whatever else you would want. With lobster I put in some butter and a bit of lemon and garlic. Used it as the dipping sauce after. The water bath is simply heat source with full contact and perfect control. A small pump circulates the water.
I eat raw fish here all the time. And have had raw venison "sashimi" many times too. I've never had any ill effects from any of it and honestly don't know anyone who has. Maybe the beer kills it.....
Meats to 170..... that's called leather..... no thanks. I'll live dangerously..... if you're not on the edge you're takin' up too much space...... =D
I'm another one in the camp that thaws meat in the sink overnight and have never had problems. I also eat raw venison on a semi-frequent basis. I do believe though, that chicken and fish should be thawed in the fridge over a couple days. If I need to thaw something quickly, I put it in plastic and submerge it in room-temp water - thaws it quickly and doesn't make it funky.
Lemme ask you this Surfbow... how long are leftovers good in the fridge?
I get a kick out of what people "think" is a good steak. One a good steak should never be frozen ever. I understand venison and elk as well as other game meat being frozen but again no even those steaks should not be frozen. Cut it into other cuts not steaks. Grilling is ok but a pan fried steak in blackened butter after the steak is left to warm to room temperature and then patted dry with a paper towel is the best way to cook a steak. People after eating a steak I have cooked comment on they have never eaten a better steak. As far as thawing meat thrown in the sink over night is just fine with me. Never gotten sick from it and this is from a guy who likes his pork a bit rare!! Shawn
I have traveled in some dicey places...SE asia..the middle east...Africa and eat from street vendors..yikes!! But at least I can see them cooking (unlike a more "civilized" restaurant) and the bottom line that I have found is if it is coming right off a hot grill all the little thingies gonna make you sick just got incinerated...
Ike, 4-5 days
And if you want to try something awesome for leftover steak, try this:
Ahhhhh......venison sashimi! Probably my favorite way to eat it and a good reason to kill a fawn every 2 weeks all season long, bag limits permitting. ;o)
A proper sous vide cooker is next on my culinary shopping list. I've done it in a slow cooker followed by the grill or super hot cast iron - yum!
And I thought the whole reason for having 2 sinks side by side was so you could thaw meat overnight.
I know how it works TD. Cooking meat in liquid changes the texture of the meat. That's a no-no to me
Surfbow, Do you get your elk meat out of the woods and in the fridge in less than 2 hours?
Most food bacteria and especially viruses are not killed by cooking. Just a myth unless you pressure cook it at high temps. Think about it. Medical instruments are autoclaved and even that doesn't always work.
"Surfbow, Do you get your elk meat out of the woods and in the fridge in less than 2 hours?"
Apples and oranges...
No its not a myth. Most viruses are deactivated at temperatures between 165 and 212 degrees Fahrenheit(boiling water), food scientists advise to heat up meat to at least 165 degrees before serving. These temperatures kill bacteria, as well. Some viruses can withstand freezing temperatures,(depending upon what it is). C. botulinum spores can be killed by heating to extreme temperature (120 degrees Celsius , 248 degrees F) under pressure using an autoclave or a pressure cooker at for at least 30 minutes. The toxin itself can be killed by boiling for 10 minutes.
However, if its not hot enough and left out at too low of a temp the bacterial spore can grow due to that lowering of temp. In order to do so the bacteria has to be there in the first place, not much around in the core of a steak, that's why we brown the outside hot temps (my grill or broiler is about 425-500), kills everything on the surface. Interior you have to worry less about unless its been improperly handled (or a bacteria laden broadhead and arrow goes through-I hate gut , stomach shots).
The Food and Drug Administration sets regulations for commercial food production. These specify that cooked foods should sit out at temperatures from 41 degrees to 135 degrees,( the range in which bacteria can grow and multiply), for no more than 4 hours. Think about that at you r next archery club potluck.
Did a number of experiments in food science lab over 30 years ago, studies on donated food product for church food shelves and such more recently...
What I learned from this thread is what my momma told me when I was a little boy.
"Done or raw, it's fills your craw"