My Issue with Loose Lips
Elk
Many of us live in or near elk country in the west which affords us the option of boots on the ground scouting and hunting. I hate seeing locations spelled out on the forums.
When I drew my first elk tag in '08, I was able to scout the unit and knew some guys I could ask about areas I'd done my homework on.
After that hunt, there was nothing gonna stop me from hunting elk whether I drew NM or not. Since then I've hunted probably a dozen units in CO.
In each one of those units, I spent hours upon hours looking at maps, and talking to biologists familiar with those areas because it was too far to go scout.
Once I've done my homework, I may ask about areas I've done my homework on. Trying to stick to PM's and phone calls.
I've been able to pick areas I want to hunt based on the homework I've done reasonably well like this. And it's very gratifying knowing you did the legwork. It's part of the enjoyment of preparing for your hunt.
What drives me nutz is seeing specific locations pointed out on the forums for those who want instant gratification.
Some folks have done years of homework and legwork to learn an area only to have a location spelled out for everyone and their brother to see without doing their homework.
The moral? Do your homework and keep the specifics limited to private conversations. Not only will you get more satisfaction, others are more apt to give you specific information on an area you are thinking of hunting based on you doing your homework!
Ok rant over :)
Can you give me a recent example of great locations given out on the Bowsite forums? I’m on quite a bit but can’t recall any.
Lots of guys are willing to help via pm’s and friendships. 1,000’s of Bowsite guys hooking up each year to do hunts sharing experiences. I rarely see guys posting coordinates to honey holes. C
Trophy, wheres ur best spot. I will do the research and see if anybody on Bowsite has given any info on it. PM is fine...;^)
Exploring is most of the fun for me. We carve our own paths out there. Why take someone else's?
People just want others to think that they know everything.
Yep I agree. Bowsite isn’t so bad. It’s all these people on Facebook, Instagram , etc that want to be famous that tell others to hunt in other people’s spots that irritate me.
When it came to where we caugh fish, or took game...my dad taught me, back in the '60's to shut the #€!! Up!!!
The best way to ruin a good hunting spot is to tell someone about it.
Some specific units that are OTC with caps get blabbed about often. The next thing you know they sell out in 14 days instead of 6 months. That really sucks.
Not much experience out west but what I tell people around here when it comes to the inevitable "where did you shoot him"-- "over by the red barn... you know, the one with the barking dog"
Can I get an A-MEN! Excellent rant.
I enjoy the scouting. I map scout units I haven't draw yet and may never draw. I map scout before I even decide what unit to apply for then some jagoff draws "my" tag and comes on here wanting to know where to hunt. But always with the disclaimer "I dont want anyones honey hole". Friggin jagoffs.
I live west out and have no good areas to blab about. I thought maybe this was about Stormy Daniels.
If you can't fine the elk in New Mexico you're blind, deaf, and dumb. Colorado, a bit harder ( for me anyhow). Maybe this year I'll actually see more elk than hunters, but its doubtful. Montana, there's an elk behind every tree. Utah, never hunted there but thinking about it this year ( pm me with honey holes please) Wyoming: too far to drive. Idaho: too steep for my old a@#. West coast bulls, they're probably all hiding in a safe space. Arizona: I can't bugle in Spanish yet, plus I'll never draw a tag anyhow. Nevada: I would probably rather be partying in Vegas. Kentucky: once again, I can't bugle with a southern accent and I heard you have to hunt barefoot. Pennsylvania: You can have it. That about covers it, anyone want to know a good place to hunt, I would say ask Chuck Adams, but I've never seen him post on here.
The honey holes in UT I hunt are Cantellum Ridge above Nunyabisnes Canyon.
HDE, a quick search yielded nothing for me with that info. Will shoot you a quick PM...
There was a thread on the CO forum not long ago where someone asked advice about a unit, and a poster (not a regular) spelled out specific drainages, where to park, how to access, where to find animals, etc.. A bit TMI.
It all works out. If the guy isn't in your honey hole he's hunting somewhere else in someone else's.
I find it quite hilarious people complaining someone's in "my spot" or "honey hole", when talking of PUBLIC land. Sure, giving specifics is a bit too much, but how much do you guys REALLY see it on open forums? Do you say something to the person giving out details?
I think many times it's a person that has hunted there long ago, and it's now a spot they don't hunt any longer. So they feel that it's okay to give out the spot. But, unfortunately it's someone else's "spot" 5, 10 or 15 years later. It happens.
Trophyhill<
myself and our camp of 5 bro's appreciate your drainage suggestion. :)
Just mentioning a unit number can screw you! Especially a draw unit!
I completely agree Trophy! Well said. It seems like even hunters are subscribing to the "entitlement" way of thinking. The millennial "instant gratification" and success at everything in life. Hunting was never meant be that way. And you can see where that attitude has gotten us with guys shooting 70-80-90 even 100 yard rifle shots with archery equipment so they can not "fail". What they don't realize is that they've "failed" already... (my rant)
If you listen to Kifarucast, Aron and Frank did a podcast on pretty much the same subject with Harold Fahrenbrook, not sure I spelled that right. Work a listen!
FWIW.... there are pay-for-use websites that spell out most of which is being discussed on this thread. I think Easton's has one. If I was going to get serious, it maybe be worth the bucks to get a membership to one of these "insider" sites and get the details on units, draw odds, hunt areas and other particulars.
I have learned to not even mention the state I plan to hunt anymore. The hard core guys will borrow in and narrow it down. Turning a honeyhole into a walmart parking lot
You have to understand the code.
"Not looking for anyone's honey hole" means if you get me within a quarter mile, I can handle it from there. If it's good, next year my buddies from back east will come along.
"I'm just looking for any bull" means there had better be a bunch of 300 plus bulls in the area with shot opportunities at least every day.
"Since this is my first time out west, I put on a sixty yard pin" means that any elk ranged out to a hundred twenty yards is going to get shot at. With these fast, light arrows and expandable broadheads, any hit that isn't perfect will only result in a superficial wound and the elk will be fine.
And like MS stated above, I quit talking about big game I shoot and quit posting pictures on the internet.
If someone puts an exact location on the internet who is dumb enough to actually go there? All that means is you’d end up with a bunch of other people in the same spot who are also lazy hunters. Last place on earth I’d want to be!
The PITA folks have devised a devious new game. They list misinformation about the "best" places, and see who can get the most "takers". If you don't believe it, visit any XYZ trail head openly listed on any forum... :)
Just one example and it only took 5 posts.
I suspect most of us ask questions but at least look at a map first.
Not everyone gets on the internet. I know a ton of bowhunters who never go to forums.......
Seriously, what happened to "hanging backcountry bloggers?" There are so many threads on Bowsite with plenty of vivid geographic posts with scenic mountain vistas. But instagram took it to a whole new level. You don't have to post any GMU in Colorado and within an hour of intense cyber stalking, you can figure it out. Hunt hard, be humble, and share your stories like we used too -- over whiskey with your friends and family around the fire.
I think people are more tight lipped than many of you believe. I very recently posted a request if Road 579 in CO's unit 74 could be traveled with a 4x4 pickup and got zero responses.
In 1993 a buddy and I drew DG340 in AK. 25 permits and when I asked the biologist about it he said it was full of old goats. Only 2 killed in the regular season since 1985 and he didn't believe they were actually in the unit. Said you couldn't get in to the goat's areas.
Hired plane, flew a couple hours and tried an unorthodox approach, avoiding the river. I got 10.25" and buddy got 9 7/8". 8.5 and 11.5 years old. Took 2 days to get in and when almost in the unit we could look down and see the drop point.
I shared the route and after a while goats, a few, were being taken, including one by my brother.
I won't share with everybody, but don't mind doing so. It's public and I don't resent others hunting the same ground.
Google earth Pro and Top Rut have made long distance scouting a lot easier.
Sorry, thought this was going to be about Botox. Never mind.
I find online maps misleading. The dead falls and oak thickets aren't marked clearly enough, and are rarely if ever updated. We often end up spending days, putting boots on the ground, clambering over seemingly endless blow downs, and busting oak brush thickets, finding some way to get somewhere that should clearly be "easy to get to" ;)
OK, I'll share. Here's my hunting partner explaining turn by turn where we hunt.
Hah! I love that kid, Marvin! Lol
Dang it man, I didn't know kids were born with a southern accent... ;^)
Not elk, but here's one that only took 4 posts to get specific info...
Loose lips aint anything new.
Many years ago, Jim Zumbo hunted a unit in North Park Colorado, and then he wrote about it in Outdoor Life. Even mentioned a specific drainage.
The next fall, that place was loaded with hunters. The year following is wasnt quite as bad, and by the 3rd year, it was about back to normal.
Its not an easy place to kill elk, but it can be done. Its been a few years since I hunted it, but I have killed a few elk there. Maybe Ill go check it out this fall and see if the internet has changed it.
The habit of sharing is nothing new, but how fast and far it goes is completely new.
Mike, I believe he referenced a particular ridge that he shot his first elk at.
Sometimes information is given in a negative form. I had a Bowsiter tell me on my way to NM that an area sucked as he was departing early from the first hunt period. He said that It was not open enough, did not have good numbers, and lots of road hunters. He then added that he did see three big bulls.
Guess where I went? I did kill a bull and had a great hunt. Incidentally a lady probably killed one of those big bulls that came in around 388.
Lmao StickFlicker. Awesome video lol
The biologist for the area I hunt is Helen Waite. If you want to know where I hunt go to Helen Waite.
And then there are those that match trophy kill shots background on google earth and sell the locations...so be careful about putting pretty vistas in your background as it can be tracked to inches...
And then there is the other extreme! I hunted Montana with a Bowsiter in 2011. He did all the map and google earth scouting and talking to biologists since it was my first elk hunt. When we got to the trailhead we met a group of (3) "locals" who were also backpack hunting. We got to talking and they were very curious how we found "their" spot. They were very nice and we saw them quite a bit that week since we were camped near one of the trails that led down to the parking area. They kept asking us how we got our info and seemed convinced that someone had told us about the spot- they actually said something like: How did 2 guys from PA find this exact trailhead? Apparently they lived about 4 hrs away but hunted this spot every year for 2 weeks. Then they pleaded with us not to post info on any website or tell others about it when we got home. They were so secretive, that they would not even give us a general direction of where they were hunting! We asked them several times so we would not accidently move in on them. It was actually funny how they would not give us any idea which direction they were going. Finally, my partner told them where WE were going so we wouldn't run into each other. We became very friendly after several days, and they even invited us over to their camp one evening (after they had filled 2 of their 3 tags) and we sat around the campfire talking, but they still would not give any clues as to where they were hunting. We never did run into them while actually hunting, but would see them frequently on the trail that led to the parking area. Finally, after I gave them a Mtn House breakfast to try(they commented they had never had one before) they offered us to use a blind that they had set up on one of the peaks. We thanked them, but declined the offer wanting to stay DIY. Interestingly,we noticed one of the guys carrying a hang-on treestand when returning from their truck one day, so they obviously had a hotspot crossing where they were gonna set up. Before leaving, we met them at the trailhead and again they pleaded with us not to mention this spot to anyone- even though by that weekend the trailhead was nearly full of parked vehicles. We kept the info to ourselves and my partner actually went out the following year to hunt mule deer with them, but I chuckle to myself every time I think about how secretive those guys were! : )
This has already been mentioned but background trophy and scenery shots are dead give aways. If you know the state and have any kind of defining ridgeline or feature, it might take a while, but they’re very easy to find on google earth!
Phone photos with the GPS turned on have metadata containing location info. I don't know how to extract it from a posted photo but plenty of "pros" do
Should post this in the NM forum.
Lmao Splitlimb. You inspired this thread ;) jk
Haha I'm honored! I agree 100% buddy!
I used to give information out. Now, I am very general with my information. I have seen my "hot spots" go cold too many times. Places where I used to find myself alone, I am now seeing hunters regularly. I believe the days of being able to "bivy" away from others are gone in many places, unless you want to go an extra 5 miles back into a wilderness. But that is impractical for getting meat out solo or even with a partner. I find some "hot spots" now in plain sight as elk move out of the back country pressure. It's changing.
Dan has a good point. I've noticed good hunting right by trails when weather isn't ideal and most hunters aren't around. Last year I killed a bull in everybody's hot spot by a main trail and 500 yards from a big wall tent! No bulls were in my normal area further back! Ended up hiking past my tent and up to the road to find them.
^^^ No brainer Brad... no brainer! Nice bull.
My only note from the opening post is you don’t seem to mind a little looseness of the lips on the part of some - namely, the guys you are calling to seek information from. :)
CNelk- I would shoot that bull every day of every season if I had an opportunity. That is unless it was a very, very special limited area permit.
No doubt in my mind Brad! It’s reached the point that how “easy” the beast will be to get out has become more important than antler size. In your son’s case, he hit a home run on both points! ;-)
TXHunter, I feel a need to respond to that. Asking questions about areas I've done my homework on does not get blurted out for all to see. And typically the guys I've talked to, I know or have met and or became friends with.
On top of that, I've given guys specifics privately, and a few have had some pretty neat experiences and killed some elk. Now that's a good feeling when you can help someone out like that who has done their homework.
On the flip side of the coin, as I've said, I do my homework and will find elk regardless. I'd wager I could hunt your favorite unit in any state, and find elk ;) And yes, I understand that finding them and killing them are two different things. That's why I love it ;)
On the rare occasion I did mention a particular early on? Let's just say I've learned the err of my ways ;
"The best way to ruin a good hunting spot is to tell someone about it." I made the mistake of telling FRIENDS about my best fishing, shed hunting , and hunting spots, all in one season at about the same time. On all three occasions, these spots were frequented by them and/or others each and every time I went back there after that, basically ruining all of them for me. Had I just done it once, and not all three times, I would have learned and kept two of them to myself. But it was simultaneously unfortunately. Never Again! Not friends anymore obviously.
I've seen a very disturbing loose lips trend, revealing all of the "just off the road" and "in between" hot spots. :)
I realize it is public land, and everyone has the right to it. And there are no secret spots. Just do a little homework, and your hunt will be so much better when "the moment of truth" arrives ;)
Public land doesn’t equal public knowledge.
Sorry, but what is the big deal? I have always made it a rule to help anyone who reaches out to me. If it is not my honey holes, I will tell them everything I can to help out. The thought process is simple, more guy having success the more hunters we retain.
' If it is not my honey holes,' The whole point of this thread. It is the honey holes we're talking about. Our bad = talking.
I don’t tell anyone but people I am very close too (as in, guys I hunt with) where my honey holes are. It’s been that way since I was a child hunting squirrels and ducks.
I always thought that was just common sense.
I found that the more I share the more I'm taken advantage of. People asking for info but they'll never provide the same in return. I've shrunk my circle of those I trust with Intel quite a bit and the only ones missing out are the ungrateful ones that didn't matter anyhow.
It's a slippery slope because I really do like seeing others have success but I've been burned one to many times and it's time for a change.
I elk hunt solo so don't worry about partners blabbing either. Often get asked about hunting info, particularly first timers. The first piece of advise I give them is about good footwear. After their disappointed look, I soften, and eventually get to places to hunt. I often narrow it down to a National Forest or two and even tell them where they can order the Forest maps. Just a nice guy, I guess.
"People asking for info but they'll never provide the same in return."
Man, the stories I can tell about that one. I know a guy who will pump you for info, but on the flip side it's a stone cold response when in casual conversation will not even mention a general location of where he hunts or hunted.
And what's even more funny is everyone else thinks he's some kind of all knowing great hunter after he's used the info you provided him. And then to add a paper cut with lemon juice, people tell you to get with him when you draw a hunt for the same unit because he knows where to go, because you clued him in in the first place.
Define irony.
On the flip side, I know people that 'say' they will will help you out... but never really commit...
Anyone asks a spot I just give them the "You can't be serious" or just laugh or something. I've given up trying to be nice about it. Now I try and use the snarkiest retort I can find in hopes of making it humorous so we can both just laugh and walk away. Some guys laugh, and then look at you maybe expecting some follow-up but then it becomes obvious soon enough that no follow up is coming lol.
The hardest ones are the non-hunters that are interested in hunting ask where you were or where you got it. You can't tell them because they will for sure mention it to anyone in passing because they don't understand the spot thing. But they also don't understand why you can't tell them where you were.
I thought this thread was going to be about Stormie Daniels
New Bowsite slogan #Yourholemygoal... Nah that really sounds bad.
This always works.
From Steamboat, go north on FR Tommy Two Track for 20 miles. Then take a right at Clarence Clearing. Park there. Head uphill thru Magic Meadow until you come to Secret Stream. Follow Secret Stream up to Gonna Pass. Camp there.
I'm just disappointed I don't have any honey holes to keep secret.
Take heart, there are "honey holes" all over the place. Many might also be referred to as "hell holes". If you want to find honey holes, ask anyone, chances are their response will be " go to ..."
After opening day, just find the thickest, darkest, deepest farthest-away spot, and you will find elk. IMW, 'Elk Hell'.
If anyone draws 6B in NM, go to "Lucky Park".
You share only with those that deserve it. I don't know how to tell you to figure out who deserves it. But, the circle in which you would give info to needs to be small if you intend to keep things preserved for your future enjoyment.
I went out west with a group of guys. Seems most of them have moved on to different things then elk hunting. So the hushed silence we promised each other about the area is and has been told many times by several of them. We had a promise. And, because we killed a lot of elk, we abided by it for a while. Now, since those guys don't want to go, they want to seem like elk killing machines and blab off where we went, how to kill them, etc.... I've had three people I met over the last year, that turned out to know one of these guys, tell me about "our" elk spot. Told to them by one of the previous group.
I sure hope that things haven't changed too much. I'll know come September.
I've been fortunate enough to run into some awesome bowsiter's over the years, and they are now in my "inner circle" you could say. The fire's threw me for a giant loop last year as most of my hunt plans all summer were destroyed, without the help of a few I likely would've had a tougher hunt. I didn't just ask everyone "where do you hunt", I had a couple of great phone conversations with some guys I consider friends now on areas that I was thinking about regardless.
At some point in the future I will have no problem returning the favor, and am in fact looking forward to when they cash in on it so we can spend some more time together and I can pick their elk killing brains when they decide to pull the trigger and head east to hunt my family farm!
I always laugh at the I don't want anyone's honey holes post, just a direction, especially when they have a handle that nobody recognizes because they made it that day. A lot of my close flat-lander buddies have asked me where I hunt, and I generally stick to "the mountains". And we both have a good laugh and they get the point.
Why would anyone trust anyone else’s “secret” info on the internet? I wouldn’t be surprised if people would intentionally mislead others to protect “their” spot.
A little help/advice is nice but you still gotta do your own homework
I've always considered info given as info entrusted. You'd have to be completely clueless or just ignorant to pass that info around.
I likely would not have killed my first javelina in AZ this past January if it hadn't been for a fellow Bowsiter that invited me to his camp. Plus I had an offer of info from one and was given a location to hunt from another, Bowsiter. Out of respect and appreciation, I wouldn't consider that info mine to dispense to someone else.
Pretty much the same for WY antelope.
Now I'm not sure if I should be happy that others feel sorry for me :(
I believe trophy's initial post was directed to those who announce Intel on a general forum rather than through private message. Threads specifically stating draw odds in certain UNITS in N.M. I have helped several people through out the years, am currently helping hunters who have asked for information. I'm all for helping each other, I think as a family of hunters it's the right thing to do. The private reply icon works fine and was created for a reason.
Bingo Splitlimb! I'll help anyone who reaches out if I can. Provided they ask the right questions. Those questions should eminate from homework. ;) And I haven't been hunting as long as alot of you and still been able to help guys get into elk. Some who have hunted elk more than myself, and some who have hunted less ;)
Ah yes. Private message me your elk spots, boys. Any unit.
Four years ago a guy I admire on Bowsite told me in confidence of a few good places where I might find a Mule Deer in an area he knew. A few weeks ago he told me he drew an elk tag in a Unit he was all excited about. Turns out he drew the same Unit I drew in 2009. Today I mailed him my maps from that hunt. It’s all very easy if it really matters. He knew I would hunt hard and I know he will hunt hard. Patience and straight shooting! Easie peasie.
Same type of story here. Went on an Elk hunt for the honeymoon. Place we had hired was honest gave me my money back and said there just wasn't any Elk this year. Turned north to a an area I know and headed there. Well just happened to meet a super cool Archery Shop owner at Walmart. He invited us out to his spot. Shot a bull the next morning. This year he got a free tag and 4,000 acres to hunt here with me in Kansas. What goes around comes around.
Good for you folks! At least the ethics police didn't catch you for trading hunts of value......
I look at it as I really like hunting with this guy. If I can get him to Kansas that is just more time spent hunting together. He has invited me back to Elk hunt regardless of the draw results here. I will share spots to those that I enjoy time outdoors with.
I've hunted the Valle Vidal and ES BARKER areas in NM. I'll never be able to hunt those again since one is OIL hunt and the other is shut out to non-residents now. I don't mind sharing what I know and helping someone out in those areas.
In the end anyone who would ask you for information isn’t someone you would be willing to give information to in the first place the people you may care enough about to share something relevant aren’t the people who would impose by asking
I don't know about that Bou. I think it depends on how the question is asked. You're not imposing on someone if you aren't expressing entitlement to an answer.
When I was in the Valle an outfitter guiding another hunter gave me some info that helped me get my bull. I was very thankful to him. Can't help but pay it forward.
I've given good spots to guys I like...and had the same done for me in return....I don't see that as anything to get wadded up about.
The stories that just aren't right is when a guy takes another guy into "His Spot" with strict instructions NOT to go there without him or his permission......and the very next year the guy is back in there. Serious lack of character there.
Some of you guys and your "secret spots"... Firstly, if it's on public land, it's nobody's spot, in fact it's everyone's spot.. Secondly, if you choose to tell someone one exactly where you hunt, you better expect that guy or more guys will be in there in coming years. Thirdly, if you found it, I bet somebody else will find it someday too, don't expect it to stay "secret" forever.. the only thing that changes when more people get into a spot, is the elk move.. ok big deal, realize shit happens, put on your big boy pants and get out your map... i guess the question I have is, what if one morning you hike into your honey hole drainage only to find someone set up next to your favorite tree, you know the one, the same one you set up next to for the last 5 years and always kill critters there? Unless you plan on duking it out with some stranger I'm betting you figure out 'plan B'.. Part of hunting is the adventure and knowing nothing is guaranteed.. the fact is in elk country, the elk are everywhere, ya just have to know where to look..
What if you hike onto your honeyhole only to find a very good friend with two of his business customers he is "guiding" - the same very good friend with whom you shared the spot so he could take his elderly ailing father (also a friend) for a "final archery elk hunt", who promised and swore her would never, ever tell anyone or go there again without you?
No, he is no longer a friend, and it's largely why I hunt public land alone now, lie like a politician, and ask the Good Lord for forgiveness.
And when someone is generous enough to share a spot with me I NEVER tell anyone and don't go back without consulting him first. There is a HUGE difference between public land, public knowledge, and trust.
Jaquomo, agreed, there is a trust element involved.. but trusting someone enough to share that valuble intel, one must expect it could be compromised someday, and if it is.. what do ya do? I guess you realize who your real friends are... But that's the risk you run, so trust no one..
Or, you tell a friend about your area, and several years later find his "film crew" filming a hunt, featured for a couple years in the full draw film tour filming in the same spot. Yes, you move on, but not without some disappointment and deep loss. Yes, I trusted him, but now, like Jaquomo, I usually hunt solo and don't trust anyone. If you haven't experienced that, then you either do the same, or haven't hunted with others long enough. Eventually somebody breaks your trust. It usually starts out as "I won't tell anyone". A couple years later, they feel they have the same rights, as if hunting it a few times gave them "squatters rights".
OTOH, two years ago I met a guy who was prepping to hike into a little basin I was hunting. Had never seen him before, OK plates. We talked for a bit and he said he had never hunted there before but it "looked good".
I figured it would be better if he hunted it right so I took him in, showed him what the elk do, called in a big bull for him. We hunted together twice after that. He had to leave a couple days later but we've since become good friends, talk on the phone regularly, and he has invited me to hunt deer and turkeys on his farm.
A couple weeks ago he called and said he was planning to come out this year and wanted to hunt together. I told him I'm hunting a different unit but maybe next year. He asked my "permission" to hunt that spot and across the road, even though it's public and I'll be elsewhere. He is hunting alone again.
That's the kind of guy I think I can trust.
I think the whole point of the thread is being swayed. I say again tons of us help each other out . I believe that's kind of the point of the forum? Trophy is stating that people are titling public threads with the soul purpose of announcing things that should be kept quiet to the entire web. Anyone who were to browse by would see . I'm all for helping someone who needs it in a new area that i Might know, at the same time I'm completely against a post titled " DRAW ODDS FOR UNIT ### ARE SUPER GOOD AND EASY TO DRAW"!!
Yeah, I get your point, we are all competing for a limited resource and it is certainly disheartening when your best spot is no longer a secret. but what'd ya do?? A guy's got to know that someday somebody was going to see the same spot on a map and say "damn that sure looks 'elky', let's check it out" and it turns into his new honey hole and he tells his buddy about his new spot and then it ends up all over the world wide web. Or you tell one guy in confidence you trust and he tells someone else.. is what it is, what'd ya do...
This thread would have been better if it was about Stormy....
My friend used to say, "I'd rather hear a fat baby fart than a grown man cry!" Oh well, carry on ladies. FM
/\ Says the guy whom asked me last week where he can go elk hunting.... ;) /\
Jaq - yes I would say that guy seems to have common hunting ethics. If you only show people that have put a ton of sweat equity into finding their own spots, it's an unwritten rule. If you've done the work, you know what it's worth, and you'd never do that to someone else.
Dan if you're gonna lose sleep over it then don't try to help a friend who's only hunted elk 1 time. I'll still be your friend I just won't consider asking you what unit to hunt or trailhead to start at. A friend of mine told me 7 years ago what NWR in Kansas to hunt and even what road to park at, He specifically said I could never tell anyone. I have not told anyone. But he has told several other guys, oh well. I know hunting elk is all some guys have, thats ok, I get more enjoyment out of helping others than I do being helped. But I'm kinda odd. I still say the thread would be better if it was about Stormy! FM
Talking about sharing, and open forum disclosure, is interesting.
It was the irony of your statement Mike. Lighten up. I'll still help you.
Florida Mike, You make a very good point. If a guy is willing to share a spot with one person he has or will more than likely share it with others.
Dan I'm light as a feather! I can tell you honestly I don't want to put you or anyone else out of their comfort zone, life is too short for that. I'll bet you lunch that the guys who complain the loudest about their "secret" lol, PUBLIC LAND spot are the same ones that have been helped by others.... and that my friend is the epitomy of "irony". But like I said, How bout Stormys Lips???
"Many of us live in or near elk country in the west which affords us the option of boots on the ground scouting and hunting. I hate seeing locations spelled out on the forums. "
"In each one of those units, I spent hours upon hours looking at maps, and talking to biologists familiar with those areas because it was too far to go scout."
"I've been able to pick areas I want to hunt based on the homework I've done reasonably well like this. And it's very gratifying knowing you did the legwork. It's part of the enjoyment of preparing for your hunt."
"What drives me nutz is seeing specific locations pointed out on the forums for those who want instant gratification. "
Florida Mike. There's no doubt I've been helped by others. I've also helped others. You could say it's my way of giving back. What's your point? I think I've made my point pretty clear regarding the "instant gratification" vs putting in your own work. There's been alot taken out of context on this thread. But I knew there would be when I started the thread. Cuz that's how it rolls round here ;)
Trophyhill. I agree with what you said for the most part. I'm not looking to argue I just wanted to add a little perspective. Its hard to write without ambiguity causing confusion and yes even misconception. I think most hunters like introducing others to the sport and helping them to be successful. I also think most of us don't want "our" spots to be overrun with other hunters. That is a delicate balance that seldom lasts long. Anyway, ya'll are welcome to overlook my comments, my wife does and we've been married 35 years.... FM
Lol Mike and I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I actually love your posts. Most of the time ;)
Stormy Kromer never told nobody nothin' about no hunting spots...
It is funny, ironic I guess, I caught a far amount of chaff for posting my stories about scouting and hunting last year. Mostly in PM from guys saying I shared too much and they knew exactly where I was hunting (they were off).
For me it is the experience and sharing it with like minded folks...plus my promise to Will to share my journey in exchange for his help in finding spots to get started. In the end, I sure didn't give up any intel he shared....would never......ended up finding my own spots (I honestly didn't have the horsepower to get into his suggested locations).....and I don't mind sharing pics and the experience.
I hope no one thought I was "outing" their secret honey hole(s) in the process as that was never my intention. I am lucky to be able to share my knowledge with my best hunting buddies from MO this year and can't wait to show them the things I discovered last season.
This thread reminds me of the competitive chippy possessiveness in MO public land duck hunting.....folks are crazy. LOL If anyone wants info on unit 77/78 outside Pagosa, or 34/25 outside Glenwood Springs, or 39 below Mt. Evans.......pm me and I am happy to share some general knowledge to get ya started on your homework. :) I can send ya places only those who truly hate themselves dare to go. LOL
I don't think you read all the posts Jordan. See how you just said "P.M.ME" . The original post is referring to people NOT using p.m. and specifically and intentionally posting specific information and specific areas on the general forum. We all do our share of helping each other out,but when guys are ignorant enough to hand out draw odds for certain units to the world wide web it's very frustrating. More so when the people talking about it draw the tag aren't even close to equipped for the hunt. It is public land and there are no secret spots, but that kind of stuff should be shared privately.
Oh just to clarify the lottery style draw in NM where odds are everything.
You Hunting Montana this year ?
Ahhhhhmannnn...... I just deleted about four Stormy's lips jokes, couple involving making elk calls..... and a couple "honey hole" ones too..... this just ain't fair...... or is it fare? I forget... depends on who's paying for it I guess....
It used to be "which units" ....it has evolved to "tag draw strategies". Seems guys want to be the dude on the show Welcome Back Kotter with his arm up all the time yelling "I know...I know...I know". Shutup!!
I understand the jilted feelings over personal betrayals but this thread started as a major league whine. Most of the info here can be read online , in magazines, local game wardens, or can be obtained by calling state elk biologist. We think that we can immediately discern if the guy has done any research by his initial question. Many times they tell you upfront that they just got lucky in the draw and are starting their research. Do you really believe that you do that much more research than everyone else? Do I use Bull elk 1 or Idyl as the standard of due diligence. I too absolutely abhor the broadcasting of specific events on an open forum but I see one guy get berated for asking and another who aired a similar question get a lovefest. similarly, I wonder how one thread gains a life and another is dead after ten or so post.
Pigsticker usually has to do with the natural amount of give and take. You see regular people on here who have immersed themselves in the bowsite community and are readily helping others when it comes to tuning health,etc etc. Then one of those regulars has a question or needs some help, others feel like they know them and do so. The ones that generally get laughed out of town are people that have never posted anything, register, and then ask a question looking for pointers on where to go hunt elk. You usually need to give to get.
+1 APauls- I visit several forums. I see it all of the time. There is a sense of community. If you are a regular contributor (General and positive) folks are accepting and will help you (via PM). If you are new kid on the block and ask for info, you are likely going to get generic and dare I say smart @ss answers. The poster comes off as a user.
Best lesson I can give is be contributor on the website. If you are a lurker and only post when you are trying to bleed folks for detailed unit info, you may be spurned. Earn respect and confidence of community. Folks will help you accordingly.
Apauls I do not know if it was that way 10 or so years to the degree it is now. Again, I never would want information posted in the open forum but typically I don’t want a lot of information. Montana was probably my most bewildering state to get information on but a couple of Bowsiters helped me out.
The biologist for the area I hunt is Helen Waite. If you want to know where I hunt go to Helen Waite.
I met a some guys on here shared a little information with them turns out they are great hunters! They located better spots and info and shared with me we have formed lifelong friendships and hunt together out west each year and also do some whitetail hunting together at my place in the winter here. This is the only forum that I think fosters this kind of respect. There is always exceptions but the rule here IMO is quality guys! I have had more issues with magazine hype causing the problem that YZF was talking about! It effected me this year and others as well. Good Hunting to all!!
I've sent a lot of guys to Bald Mountain, and lost lake. They are always thankful upfront, but I never seem to hear back about how their hunt went.
