Mathews Inc.
Accuracy as You Extend Your Range
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Xbowdoctor95 24-Apr-18
Ermine 24-Apr-18
HDE 24-Apr-18
skipmaster1 24-Apr-18
ahunter55 24-Apr-18
Mike Ukrainetz 25-Apr-18
Xbowdoctor95 25-Apr-18
wildwilderness 25-Apr-18
ground hunter 25-Apr-18
Scoot 25-Apr-18
GhostBird 25-Apr-18
Missouribreaks 25-Apr-18
ELKMAN 25-Apr-18
12yards 25-Apr-18
M.Pauls 25-Apr-18
Bake 25-Apr-18
ELKMAN 26-Apr-18
Brotsky 26-Apr-18
APauls 26-Apr-18
SBH 26-Apr-18
Bob H in NH 26-Apr-18
WV Mountaineer 26-Apr-18
WV Mountaineer 26-Apr-18
grubby 26-Apr-18
BOWNBIRDHNTR 26-Apr-18
johnw 26-Apr-18
Shawn 26-Apr-18
Xbowdoctor95 26-Apr-18
Pigsticker 26-Apr-18
Xbowdoctor95 27-Apr-18
APauls 27-Apr-18
Shawn 27-Apr-18
Xbowdoctor95 27-Apr-18
Pigsticker 27-Apr-18
Shawn 27-Apr-18
Pigsticker 27-Apr-18
WapitiBob 27-Apr-18
Shawn 28-Apr-18
jjs 28-Apr-18
From: Xbowdoctor95
24-Apr-18
Ok, so I finally got some extended range shooting in, and I did well out to about 50... Then my bow seemed to be shooting to the right at 60. I still hit my block, but sometimes I barely hit it. I feel like my form is pretty good. It was about a 6 mph wind and I was moving a bit, but I felt that perhaps my bow sight needs to be adjusted, I shot fine at 20,30,40, etc. I mean I suppose it could have been a tad right at 40-50 but I don't want to go trying to fix something that isn't broken, thoughts?

From: Ermine
24-Apr-18
Is your bow leveled properly. Is it bow tuned?

From: HDE
24-Apr-18
10 yds can make a big difference past 50. Also, fatigue could've been setting in a little.

From: skipmaster1
24-Apr-18
I'm guessing it's a tune or torque issue.

From: ahunter55
24-Apr-18

ahunter55's embedded Photo
ahunter55's embedded Photo
I'm fortunate to shoot several Target (40-50-60 yds) & Field tournaments (10 thru 80 yds). through the summer months usually. The fellas I compete with for the most part are above average shooters. I mean, if it's 4 shots at 40, 50 , 60 yards, they will have 4 arrows in the scoring area. For me, & for most that I shoot with I see those groups start spreading out after 40 yds. & a little more after 50... Oh, there are times we might get them in a 3" spot at that range but "not" every time . Now, lets exclude the Pros, I'm talking above average but not perfection pro. Now 35 & under, we see lots of nock busting. This is 3 guys at 40 yds & hunting pin sights at the NFAA target Nationals. I'm sure we have others that can do better, I just never seem to see them on my target in a competition.

25-Apr-18
It could just be some nervousness as you get further away, simply tightening your grip slightly, changing your release method etc

From: Xbowdoctor95
25-Apr-18
I think you may be right Mike. I shoot great 30 and 40 yard groups. In fact I even broke a nock today. But once I get to 60 I was concerned with my "group" to say the least. I think the wind may have had a part to play as well. It was pushing my bow to the right causing me to apply pressure to keep it left. I'm new to being a serious bowhunter and shoot daily, I guess I will be focusing more on my long range! Haha. Better start buying some arrows.

25-Apr-18
If you shoot daily don’t over do it. Better to shoot quality than quantity. Some days I’ll only shoot 4 arrows, and still bust a nock at 50.

If you feel you aren’t shooting well then take a break, or wait til tomorrow

25-Apr-18
I agree with the advice you have given,,,,, now that I am older, a lot of my days, that are needed for longer shooting are over with, but long range shooting, makes me a better archer......

First of all you need a place to shoot, with a proper back stop, so your mind does not drift to thinking about, losing an arrow, or wondering about your back drop...... Then you have to shoot and analyze your set up, and the environmental conditions you are shooting in, etc.........

My max distance is 80 yards and I like shooting distance,,,,, I always shoot a lighted nock,,,,,, I have gone to Fusion vanes 4 fletch, and a drop away rest,,,,, I have sold my single pin system, and went to a 4 pins system, so tweak your equipment to what you like,,,,,,,,,, I do not like a stabilizer, since I do not hunt with one, I do not shoot with one.....

I shoot 3D, but not competitively, and I am not a target archer for scores, just shoot for fun, and hunting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

late season, 50 yard shots in crop fields is doable for me, under certain conditions, but not without a lot of practice, and equipment set up and tuning.......

You will here a lot of negative comments on shooting past 30 yards from some,,, however maybe they can not shoot or do not want to learn to shoot that far, so disregard that,,,,,,,,,, There are some people that can plain just shoot.......

As for the distance police you may hear from,,,,, I do most of my whitetail hunting with a long bow, and my discipline there is I shoot no deer past 15 yards, no need to shoot any farther for that set up and its capability , and I am dead nuts at that distance,,,, but I practice out to 40

From: Scoot
25-Apr-18
All good info above. However, the problem may be as simple as you sight needs to move ever so slightly. Your "miss to the right" at 60 may look like a perfect shot at 20. Even though at 20 your "hit" actually slightly misses to the right, but still looks like a hit. The tiny misses that still bust X's at 20 yards show up as misses at 60. But... the sight adjustments need to be very small- much smaller than you were making for misses at 20.

But... it could be any of the suggestions above. Once my bow is tuned I don't consider my left and right adjustments on my sight to really be dialed in until I shoot at long distances. I feel like this really helps me dial in. It also helps me feel more confident on those "40 yard chip shots". Good luck!

From: GhostBird
25-Apr-18
Shoot at distance FIRST and then move closer. Perhaps it is fatigue affecting your form if you are shooting close first and then extending the range later in your session. Just an idea.

25-Apr-18
Modern compounds and optics in the correct hands allow for very long range accuracy, similar to the scoped crossbow.

From: ELKMAN
25-Apr-18
Assuming bow is leveled, and tuned properly. (Big assumption) Slow down your shooting. Wait AT LEAST 30 seconds between shots. Use binoculars, and analyze your previous shot etc... Distance shooting is a lot between your ears.

From: 12yards
25-Apr-18
I finally extended my range last night since we've got some warmer weather finally. I was working on trying to be more relaxed at full draw to reduce my pin float at 30 yards. Well I relaxed a little too much and my bow let down on me and caused me to hit the trigger on my release. I had no idea where my arrow went. To my surprise it hit very near my target. Unfortunately it missed the target and was in the garage door to my shed. The good news is I had a perfect bullet hole. LOL!

From: M.Pauls
25-Apr-18
Slow down. Force yourself to take, say 6 shots a day for the next week. No more. Focus on every single one like it’s your only one. Build a series of checks you go through for every shot. Shoot for an imaginable hair in the center of where you’re shooting. Like ELKMAN says a lot of distance shooting is between your ears, so train your brain. This has worked for me when things start to slide. Shooting lots can build bad habits if it’s not done with great stamina in your mental and physical game

Also I’ve learned if my shooting is off, hang it up, come back tomorrow. Sometimes there’s nothing to fix, just a bad day and don’t let it get to you.

From: Bake
25-Apr-18
I played around at long range a lot last year. It amazed me how it made 40-50 yards seem like chip shots after shooting at 80-90.

The biggest thing I discovered was that form, follow through, and a clean release are HUGE. But it really made me a better shot close in. I enjoyed it too.

From: ELKMAN
26-Apr-18
I only shoot distance now days once it warms up enough to be outside. It's really the only shooting i enjoy anymore. When I'm hunting I only shoot 40 yards so its like a can't miss proposition when the shot matters. I would say 100 to 120 is my favorite distance to practice.

From: Brotsky
26-Apr-18
My money is on a tuning issue somewhere or sight misalignment. 6 mph wind? That is negligible. If I had to wait for a 6 mph wind I'd only be able to shoot about 4 days per year!

From: APauls
26-Apr-18
First thing I would do is nothing.

So it's your first time shooting at 60 and it didn't work perfect? Do we always expect perfection first time doing something? Relax, keep at er. Shoot for a week without changing anything then report back. Chances are your problem is gone, or after a few days of the exact same problem you'll resolve it yourself. Key with archery is to make sure the same problem happens numerous days in a row before applying any change.

From: SBH
26-Apr-18
Good point Apauls.

Could Fatigue have played a roll also? Never move your sight or base any shooting decisions on your last few groups of the night....especially when you are shooting the farthest away. Small errors at longer ranges make a big difference. Let us know what you find out.

From: Bob H in NH
26-Apr-18
Another issue is you might actually be aiming to the right. At distance the "dot" becomes smaller and the pin eventually will cover it totally, it's natural then to "slide right" so you can see the dot.

26-Apr-18
I like everyone's advice. Here's my version.

For me to test my bow sight, I have always used 40 yards groups to determine where in fact it was sighted. That takes the right day so, when I test it, I do so when I have the right conditions. When I see a less then perfect group location, I put the bow down for a while. Then come back to it to ensure it wasn't something I was doing in my grip, release, where I was holding my sight, etc.....

I've found that long distance shooting for me is often as simple as strict sight discipline. In other words, it is tempting to hold the pin to see what you are aiming at. But, at those ranges, If I am holding in an area that allows me to see my point of aim versus just covering it with my pin, then I am not holding where I want to hit.

For 60 plus yards, Ermine touched on this before in another thread and it works really well. I take a target that is much bigger then picking a tiny spot. Like a block target face. Instead of trying to cover up that 3 inch circle and guess if I'm right, I hold center mass top to bottom and left to right. Much easier that way then trying to cover a tiny spot and guess where the pin actually is upon release. IF you are good at 40, then the bow should be good to do it at 60. Work, on it before you change anything until you are sure it is tuning

I don't worry as much about tune being the culprit at those ranges. I will know whether it is tuned or not by the time I get there. And, being that yours is perfect at 40 and below, tells me yours is too. It's your form. Torque, level, etc.... Something besides tune. Good luck and God Bless

26-Apr-18
Looks like I should have read the whole thread before typing out that long explanation. Every point had already been covered. Could have saved myself some time. :^)

From: grubby
26-Apr-18
For sure don't rush anything...... you can chase your tail to no end. Id bet heavy that its a tuning issue and would walk back tune it.

one thing I like to do that helps with my head is to always end on a good note. if that means drilling a few back at 20 at the end of my session so be it.

From: BOWNBIRDHNTR
26-Apr-18
Some of the best answers I have ever seen pertaining to a distance question. I am far from an expert at shooting distance but I love doing it. Typically I see more answers on these threads telling people they shouldn't be shooting over "x" yards. Nice to see nothing but friendly advice!!

From: johnw
26-Apr-18
What Scoot said. Had the same issue when I started shooting beyond 50 yards

From: Shawn
26-Apr-18
I would bet a pay check that I could choose 10 guys randomly off this site and maybe and this is a big maybe 2 of them could keep a softball size group at 60 yards. with 3 arrows. The internet seems to make for some awfully good shots. Hell I shoot with a guy who won Vegas a couple of times and more tournaments than I can count and still averages 300 with 40 plus X's every week and he cannot do it every time!! Shawn

From: Xbowdoctor95
26-Apr-18
You guys have some solid advice. And I apologize for being a slight perfectionist. I will be doing some more shooting outside tomorrow. I will try at 40 again and if I'm on, I will be doing some broadhead tuning. Haha

From: Pigsticker
26-Apr-18
X2 Shoot at distance FIRST!

As Mike stated hand torque is monster at distance.

Look through the pin instead of trying to pin on target.

A surprise release is essential.

Follow through must be exaggerated.

Read your bow, if I shoot perfecty my to limb rote’s down and away. This when I am at my best.

I am not a great shot but I have grouped well out to 80 yards. 75 is my threshold as for now. I shots a lot and consistently shoot several animals over 50 yards every year. I hardly ever practice at under fifty except for playing steep angles close to a ladder stand. Most of my misses are up and down so that ease my conscious at shooting at longer distances. The close distance mantra is what I believe to be an East West thing and the trad mindset. I didn’t even think this years on 30 whitetail shot. Like others have said practice at 80 makes 40 automatic. On my open country bow I like peep and smaller pins.

From: Xbowdoctor95
27-Apr-18

Xbowdoctor95's embedded Photo
40 yards. Elevated.
Xbowdoctor95's embedded Photo
40 yards. Elevated.
Based on my 40 yard group here, I definitely think it's operator error. Will be testing again as soon as we get some more nice weather.

From: APauls
27-Apr-18
Group looks acceptable to me Xbow ;) So I am guessing you did nothing and it was fine today? I'm happy with that any day of the week at 40 yards.

From: Shawn
27-Apr-18
I can see those groups at 40 yards but as I said very few guys can even shoot a group twice that size at 60, very few!! Nice shooting Xbow you have to remember it is similar to shooting a rifle in that most folks shoot an 1.5" group at 100 yard and then wonder why with a solid rest they miss at 400. what you want is a one hole group at 100 yards and then you will ok at 400 with practice. Trut me if you can keep them all in n 8" circle at 60 yards you shoot better than most guys no matter what you here on the internet! Shawn

From: Xbowdoctor95
27-Apr-18
Thanks guys. I just needed to get comfortable. A big help was knowing that I wasn't going to lose all of my arrows if I wasn't on. I was able to relax and just focus on form and it helped.

From: Pigsticker
27-Apr-18
Shawn your math is all wrong. Technically a 1.5 inch group will 6 inches at 400.

Where we fail is not enough magnification to get the precise aiming point and without enough confidence from not shooting for 400 yards.

Likewise, these things come into effect at 70 with a bow. That being noted then Xbox’s group at 60 should meet your softball size group with all things being equal. This is simple math.

From: Shawn
27-Apr-18
Technically yes but I shoot a lot of 600 and 800 yard matches and even a rifle with a solid rest most guys cannot hold, breath and squeeze well enough to shoot 10" groups at 400 plus yards unless they shoot a real lot. Nope as I said its not as simple as math as very few can hold as steady the longer the range gets. Like I said I bet a pay check that I could choose 10 random guys on here and if more then 2 of them could do it I would give up my pay check. I watched over 65 guys shoot recently at a 3D shoot and in that entire bunch there was 2 guys that I am sure could do it and maybe another 2 or 3 others that had a chance. I am not a great shot, never claimed to be but I can shoot 3 or 4" groups at 40 and sometimes around that at 50 yards but get me 2 60 and beyond and no way consistently. P.S. with a rifle it is not about enough magnification as I shoot my MOA groups with 10 power. Shawn

From: Pigsticker
27-Apr-18
Shawn, why is it on the long range hunting shows they shoot up to 25 power.

If my aim point is a button vs a pocket how much better will my group be. Aim small miss small. A minute of angle gun bores me.

The only interesting gun is an accurate gun. COL Townsend Whelen

From: WapitiBob
27-Apr-18
8" at 60 is a wee bit loose

The biggest problem with groups opening up at distance is the change in sight picture and the resultant mental trauma imparted on the nut holding the bow.

From: Shawn
28-Apr-18
Because they are hunting shows and they are selling those products. when you get above 16 power every breath is magnified through that scope and down range. I agree 8"s is a bit loose but again 4"s is awful good and I stand by what I said very few guys even on this sight are capable of 4" groups at 60 yards with a hunting set-up. Maybe a target bow all decked out but not a hunting set-up! Shawn

From: jjs
28-Apr-18
I knew a gent that has pass, he would start beginners out to 80 yrds on a pie plate and when they could start hitting it they could hit anything within that yardage, but the bows were recurves. Stay in your own normal range and decrease a bad hit on the animal, targets who cares.

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