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Wyoming Discussion Elk License Allocatio
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Kirkus 21-May-18
elkstabber 21-May-18
Kirkus 21-May-18
elkstabber 21-May-18
WapitiBob 21-May-18
WapitiBob 21-May-18
elkstabber 21-May-18
WapitiBob 21-May-18
elkstabber 21-May-18
LONEBULL 21-May-18
JL 21-May-18
Bigdan 21-May-18
Orion 21-May-18
WapitiBob 21-May-18
WapitiBob 21-May-18
Orion 21-May-18
ohiohunter 21-May-18
Topgun 30-06 21-May-18
elkstabber 21-May-18
Lost Arra 21-May-18
WapitiBob 21-May-18
Big Fin 21-May-18
JL 21-May-18
Mule Power 22-May-18
BULELK1 22-May-18
elkstabber 22-May-18
WapitiBob 22-May-18
Grasshopper 22-May-18
Topgun 30-06 22-May-18
ohiohunter 22-May-18
Mule Power 23-May-18
Grasshopper 23-May-18
Topgun 30-06 23-May-18
Trial153 23-May-18
Firsty 23-May-18
Topgun 30-06 23-May-18
Firsty 23-May-18
Glunt@work 23-May-18
Z Barebow 24-May-18
From: Kirkus
21-May-18
FYI Wyoming Game & Fish Live Discussion Elk Licenses Allocation

Wyoming Game & Fish Need your Opinion - Join and be Heard

May 22 at 10:30 a.m. (Mountain Time) on Facebook Live. The public can view and participate through the Wyoming Game and Fish Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/WyoGFD

or the Wyoming Game and Fish website. https://wgfd.wyo.gov/

Message from the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association: The current system for giving out hunting licenses to elk hunters has not been changed in nearly 30 years. Over the past several months the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission has heard different opinions on whether the system and percentage split of licenses between residents and nonresidents should stay the same or be altered. Now the Wyoming Game and Fish Department is inviting people to come and learn more about the existing system and talk about license allocation without any proposed changes on the table. Game and Fish will also take any other comments on licensing for future consideration.

From: elkstabber
21-May-18
I got this too. Read it carefully. The outfitters' association wants to hear from you. That's like a real estate agent asking what you think about a house they've got for sale.

This is not the Wyoming Game & Fish Department that is asking for your opinion.

** Edit: Kirkus you're right, sorry.

From: Kirkus
21-May-18

Kirkus's Link
I read over this a few times. While the email was sent by the Outfitter Association, Game & Fish are having a meeting via Facebook Live on May 22

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Get-Involved/Public-Meetings

From: elkstabber
21-May-18
The WOGA (outfitters' association) posted a link directly to the WGFD's Facebook group. There wasn't a clear link to provide input regarding the allocation of non-resident tags. There is no doubt that the WOGA would like to get a share of guaranteed non-resident tags that it can sell to their clients.

So I posted a question asking if there was an initiative to allow non-residents to be able to hunt in wilderness areas. Of course, my comment wasn't posted because has to be reviewed by the group's administrator. But maybe, just maybe, they will choose to post it.

From: WapitiBob
21-May-18
"Message from the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association:

Not all of our "prospective clients" can draw every year so, we propose to increase the 7,250 full price quota to 9,000.

"This is not the Wyoming Game & Fish Department that is asking for your opinion. "

Actually, it is. WYOGA brought it up at a past meeting and the Commission asked the Dept to get public opinion.

From: WapitiBob
21-May-18
There is no proposal, nor will there be, to allow NR to hunt Wilderness.

From: elkstabber
21-May-18
Wapitibob it seems like you understand this situation. On the surface it appears to be a battle between resident and non-residents for elk tags. But, considering the influence that WYOGA has with the WG&F it is likely that something else is going on under the surface.

Is this an effort to guarantee the outfitters tags for their clients? Will those tags come from the residents? Or, will they come from the non-residents similar to how NM does it?

Or is there another likely outcome?

From: WapitiBob
21-May-18
These are not designated "outfitter licenses". It's WYOGA attempting to increase the NR allocation so their customers can "draw every year", as mentioned at the Commission meeting by a WYOGA member. A Commission member then asked, "over half the NR Bull licenses are going to outfitted NR, isn't that enough?"

Neither the Dept, the Commission, nor residents, want the allocation changed. This is a WYOGA inspired issue and the public meetings are a way to keep the dept and Commission hands clean.

In the unlikely even this gets traction and passes, the licenses would be converted from non issued NR full price licenses and added to the 2nd phase of the draw, issued as Special Gen licenses, 1st choice then 2nd choice. There were 423 licenses added in 2018 to make up the 7,250. Add another 1,750 and you will see the effect on nr special gen odds. These converted licenses do not show on the demand report.

From: elkstabber
21-May-18
"the licenses would be converted from non issued NR full price licenses and added to the 2nd phase of the draw, issued as Special Gen licenses, 1st choice then 2nd choice. There were 423 licenses added in 2018 to make up the 7,250. Add another 1,750 and you will see the effect on nr special gen odds. These converted licenses do not show on the demand report."

Could you explain again how this would work? What is a non issued NR full price license? What is a converted license? How would it affect the odds for NRs? Will it affect the odds for Rs?

From: LONEBULL
21-May-18
The WGFD has been having public meetings through the state on this topic and from everything I've seen and read the majority of people at the meeting want to keep it right where it is. I think the only way they (WYOGA) are going to get it changed is through the legislature and that will be a battle.

From: JL
21-May-18
Two questions.

1. In laymen's terms...how does the affect the regular joe who wants to do an unguided elk hunt? (or muley/lope hunt for that matter)

2. Is there anything else of interest being discussed at the meeting....ie...muley's and antelopes?

From: Bigdan
21-May-18
I'm only going to hunt Wyoming one more time in my life when my points our gone i'm done waiting 10 years for a tag is to long I'm 70 now and i'm thinking I mite draw next year. . At 80 I don't think I would be able to still bow hunt

From: Orion
21-May-18
Ah so Wyoming wants to be like New Mexico

From: WapitiBob
21-May-18
"Ah so Wyoming wants to be like New Mexico". not even close

From: WapitiBob
21-May-18
Elk, WY Game sets license "limited entry" quotas for Elk, split 84/16 res/nr.

the difference between the limited entry nr 16% and 7,250 is the number of Gen licenses. Because NR don't apply for all le hunts, the dept "converts" the licenses we don't draw to gen licenses and goes back thru the special gen hunt and continues to allocate licenses until they reach the 7,250.

Should this proposal go thru, nothing changes with the dept's LE quotas, only the 7,250 gets bumped up. So, the only change will be to the number of Gen licenses.

And once again, these are NOT outfitter sponsored licenses, or set aside for outfitters. Simply an increase in the max quota for NR, full price licenses.

From: Orion
21-May-18
They say that now but somehow I feel it will go the way of New Mexico and WYOGA will find a way to secure tags for their clients who in there words "are having problems drawing tags." The res/non res split will stay the same but the DIY NR guy will get the shaft.

From: ohiohunter
21-May-18
In a nut shell, the more tags given to NR the more likely a guide will be used. As pointed out 50% of NR's w/ bull tags are already using guides, seems the wilderness rule is keeping the guides busy enough as it is. As a NR I'd like the increased draw opportunity, but at what cost?

From: Topgun 30-06
21-May-18
For those who don't know anything about WYOGA, please don't think that they are doing anything to help anyone but themselves and this is just another one like the wilderness law they got passed through the Legislature years ago!

From: elkstabber
21-May-18
Thank you for your explanation WapitiBob.

From: Lost Arra
21-May-18
What's wrong with the current allocation and cap of 7250? Does the WYOGA want more paying clients by way of more non-res limited entry tags or a higher cap?

From: WapitiBob
21-May-18
This proposal does not increase limited entry licenses. With no other changes it will make special gen licenses 100% draw. WYOGA has also floated the idea of creating "regions" for gen Elk licenses, comprised of several hunt areas. Similar to deer regions.

From: Big Fin
21-May-18
I got the same email. As an NR in Wyoming, I'm not inclined to mess with the current system. WY currently gives NRs 16% of LE elk tags and a much higher percentage of deer and antelope tags. I have a suspicion that residents are not inclined to give NRs more than the generous amounts we currently get when compared to 10% NR allocations in MT/ID/UT/NV/AZ. What small gain NRs might see for a short while could easily be lost, and much more, when WY residents get fed up and bring forth their own changes to be more like other western states. Would prefer to keep it as is and not see the eventual push back from residents on all species.

From: JL
21-May-18
This discussion sounds like it is going down the path of a similar discussion last year regarding something about following the money and who brings in the most money to WY (actually all the western states).....res or non-res's.

From: Mule Power
22-May-18
“With no other changes it will make special general licenses 100% draw” That’s all I need to know. Oh please please pleeeeease!!!

From: BULELK1
22-May-18
So increase the Non-ressy Gen/Any elk tags to 9000 and then make the LQ Non-ressy elk tags down to a max of 10%...…..?????

I can see that type of 'Compromise ' possibility

Good luck, Robb

From: elkstabber
22-May-18
Randy (Big Fin) made a solid point. Let's leave well enough alone.

From: WapitiBob
22-May-18
I would agree with you Robb. If the NR quota heads to 9,000 I could see the residents/Legislature simply saying, "give the nr their gen licenses and give the residents the le licenses." Those addl licenses, should this get traction, will be Special price until they allocate all 1st and 2nd choice gen apps. That's a $1,300 gen license.

From: Grasshopper
22-May-18
Although I grew up in Casper, I am now a NR with 8 elk points. What I find amusing is the same argument NR's use in every state on the facebook comments section. 1. It's federal land. 2. We pay more so we deserve more.

What everyone should find alarming was the fellow who commented on facebook suggesting he had the ear of some bureaucrat, and was moving forward with a landowner voucher initiative like New Mexico. Privatize wildlife, thereby causing the general public to lose out on licenses in the normal draw, and let the high bidder bypass the pints system altogether. Im sure WYOGA would be in support of that one.

I am fine with the current allocation and I do side with residents, but F&G did state population has risen, but the allotment has not. It is valid too.

From: Topgun 30-06
22-May-18
IMHO NRs will set themselves up for changes that will not be good for them if they try to change the existing system in any way, shape, or form since the system is as good as it gets in any western state for NRs!!! We should definitely fiercely fight any form of tags that would be doled out to WYOGA or landowners that could be sold to anyone. In other words, we already have our cake and should not screw it up for even another slight bite of it or we'll be sorry with the end result!

From: ohiohunter
22-May-18
I agree, there is enough LO and OF welfare in western states as it is.

From: Mule Power
23-May-18
This has nothing to do with special outfitter licenses or landowner tags. Nothing. These threads only go on for so long before they veer off in another direction. Read wapitibob’s posts.

From: Grasshopper
23-May-18
Those were the comments on wyo g&f Facebook, where the live event was held.

From: Topgun 30-06
23-May-18
From: Mule Power 23-May-18 This has nothing to do with special outfitter licenses or landowner tags. Nothing. These threads only go on for so long before they veer off in another direction. Read wapitibob’s posts.

***My post was made so everyone will realize that both things I mentioned have also been brought up recently by outfitters trying to get more tags for their NR clients any way they can! It was just a general statement that we should leave things as they are or I can guarantee that it will come back to bite the NRs who seem to never be happy with what they get. Wyoming is more generous with their NR tags than any other state and to try to change things will be fought by residents and in the end the NR hunter will be the loser in anything that passes.

From: Trial153
23-May-18
I don’t think the quota increase is a good idea. I think WY already awards a generous total amount of tags. From a NR point of view a 16 % allocation is better then every other state that I am aware of. I think leaving well enough alone is prudent.

The Wilderness guide law, is a totally separate issue that is better left debated elsewhere

From: Firsty
23-May-18
Colorado gives out alot more than 16% to NR.

From: Topgun 30-06
23-May-18
From: Firsty 23-May-18 Colorado gives out a lot more than 16% to NR.

Yea, and the seasons are only 5 days long and it's like a zoo out there. I hunted CO back in 1980 and haven't been back since because no matter where you went it was one big pumpkin patch!

From: Firsty
23-May-18
I was just stating the fact that Co gives out more than 16%. That is a fact not my opinion. It is also a fact that not all Co seasons are 5 days long.

From: Glunt@work
23-May-18
If Colorado has a popular unit with 100 limited elk tags, 20 go to the land owner set-aside which is available to nonresidents and residents equally if they buy or are gifted the tags by the land owner.

That leaves 80 tags, of which up to 40% (32) are available to nonresidents. Thats 52 out of 100 limited tags that are available to nonresidents along with guaranteed over-the-counter tags in a big portion of the elk country. I can't remember the exact split but with otc tags, nonresidents represent 55% - 60% of the hunters.

I hope the possible change being discussed in WY doesn't happen. I have hunted there as a nonresident but believe they have a much better approach than we do here in CO.

From: Z Barebow
24-May-18
Leave WYO alone. If the license pendulum is pushed it will eventually swing back and swing much further than where things stand today.

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