Your Sight Options and Why...
Equipment
So i was pondering through my thoughts the other day and I was watching an episode of "Land of The Free". I happened to catch Trevor (I think) shoot a bull at 85 yards and put it down. I was curious on the adjustable sight he used and began searching these sights. I shoot a Trophy Ridge React 5-pin right now but, I was considering perhaps moving to one of these Spot Hoggs or MBG sights. I understand that shots that far should only be taken if necessary, and I also understand that they are a touch on the heavier side. So I guess I was wondering what you guys would suggest for a guy looking to make sure he's well equipped for his adventures out west. I should mention I have a Mathews Halon 32.... Which people seem to think is on the heavier side. I shoot with a stab on it and when I remove the stab I'm lucky I don't unintentionally whip the bow into the air. I'm definitely interested in upgrading but, I don't want to do it if I do not need to.... Thoughts?
I shoot all Axcel sights because they are incredibly durable and hands down the most accurate adjusting systems in the industry, but they are a HORRIBLE company to deal with for customer service. Everything from ordering, purchasing, and definitely in warranty and repair scenarios. But there is just nothing close to their product for hunting and accuracy/tolerances. The new Reo-Tech is amazing.
I use spot Hogg. I’ve found them to be very durable. Great tough sight and work well
7 pin Spot Hogg for me for about the last 10 years. Set from 20 to 80. Haven't tried anything farther than about 65 at live game to date, but it's fun on the range. Been tempted to use an adjustable, but don't like the thought of having to move anything as an animal approaches.
I exchanged my 5 pin Spot Hog for a one pin adjustable MBG with a green pin. As one gets older and ones sight starts to fail, multi pins are blurred and harder to distinguish. The one pin helped that a lot as now I only concentrate on one pin and have learned to adjust high and low out to 30 yards or just dial in the correct range. I just had Cataract operation on my right aiming eye and all is good and better.
Others have gone to a 3 pin adjustable if one has concerns, adjusting the one pin sight as an animal approaches. Maybe the 3 pin adjustable is the best of both worlds for some. MG has a great customer service I hear. my best, Paul
Spot Hog - Hog it - 7 pin with 6" dovetail. Very durable, tough, and accurate. Great customer service and warranty as well.
Love the 7 pin set up which I prefer to sliders due to time purposes. There are animals I have killed that I'm certain I would not have if I was using a slider.
Lots of good sight companies out there, but in my opinion Spot Hog, Montana black Gold, and trophy taker are at the top. (In that order)
Perhaps I will look into it. I have been shooting the Trophy Ridge React for awhile now and idk... I just feel like I may be better off with a Spot Hog or MBG. I don't want to make my bow too much of a clunker, but I like the sights. I'll have to give em a look.
Been using a MBG single pin for quite some time. I Just set it at 30yds and aim high or low a little and I'm good to go. Hasn't cost me an animal yet.
Have an Axcel Armortech. Getting rid of it and going to a MBG. Don't like the sight ring, the level with one line in the center and the pins aren't very bright. Plus I don't know why they are putting .019" dia pins for the twenty yarder. Getting one custom built at MBG. Widowmaker, 4 pins, top one .029".
Spot Hogg, fast Eddie double dots on a single pin. Super simple, great sight window, super tough and easy to use.
Cbe tek hunter hybrid pro. 5 pin slider 30-70 yards, 4” dovetail, 2nd and 3rd axis adjust. Depending on arrow weight can shoot out to 90-120 yards.
Why? Just because I like them and they’ve been very durable.
As far as the bow weight, that’s just weeny talk. I’m currently shooting the Halon X and it weighs something like 4.94 pounds bare bow. I personally like how beefy these risers are. The mass weight makes the bow more stable. I just wish the X wasn’t so top heavy.
Love my 7 pin axcel vision for elk and moose hunting!
Following this thread closely ... never been too happy with my 5-pin ... but skeptical of 1-pin options. ------ For those who aren't ready for the jump, what does Bowsite think of Paul's rec for 3-pin adjustable?
Once you go to the clear sight window of the single pin, it's difficult to go back to the clutter of multiple pins, in your sight picture.
John, I’ve been using a Black Gold Ascent 3-pin slider for 3 yrs now. IMO, as Paul said, it’s the best of both worlds. My pins are set at 20, 30, and 40, with my 40 being the slider. I haven’t taken a shot further than 35yds in the last 25yrs, so I’m good to go. The great thing is, however, I can practice out to 100yds by simply turning the dial to the exact yardage. I honestly dont see myself ever shooting anything else.
I'm leaning away from slider sights. Farthest pin out has been 50 or 60 yds, anything after that for me too much can go wrong so no need to slide adjust.
30 years ago we used a single pin set at 30 yds. Most shots back then were capped at 40 anyway.
Current setup for this year is two pins, one at 30 and the other 45. Makes hold over a little easier at 53 yds using a 45 yd pin than one at 30. This one is a CBE SL4.
Past Shot Distant surveys on Bowsite for elk report an average shot is less that 40 yards and closer to 25 yards. My longest kill shot was 32 yards and I have not taken any shots over 40 yards. Never had the need. I hunt dark timber.
HDE, I understand what you’re saying and I agree with you 100% in hunting situations. However, nothing is a better indicator of proper form, or a magnifier of improper form, than long range shooting. The other great advantage of long range practice is it makes those 40yd shots seem MUCH easier!
I agree with wyobullshooter. I enjoy practicing 60 or 70 yard shots. I can unload anywhere from 10-50 like I'm throwing paper in a basket. I really like the ideas floating around. Makes me think that I may pursue a Spot Hogg or the like with a slider just to see if it's worth the hype. If not, I'll always have the React sight. Which is better than most in its price range.
I haven't shot past 60 with any slider I have (had) for the past 5 years so don't see the need anymore. The farthest I've shot anything is 53 yds and the closest was about 4.
Being very familiar with 50 yd shots and closer through repitition and knowing how to hold over at 60 will do me more good than practicing at 85 or 90.
I tried a single pin slider last year. My aiming eye got a virus that scared a bunch of my eye. I lost a lot of vision. It was extremely cloudy to go along with that scaring. It blurred my multiple pin setup bad. I forgot to adjust the slider on one deer and, flat out missed. Got caught in a situation that required a quick shot with no time to adjust the sight for the yardage, which was 25 yards farther then the 20 yards I had the pin set on. I Kentucky Wind-aged it and, flat missed. I was extremely irritated and almost went back to the trad bow because of it.
During the off season, I prayed and was blessed because my eye has cleared some. Making shooting multiple pins possible if I'm careful. So, I'm running 5 pins again. Since most my shots are 25 yards or so, I set the first pin at 20, second at 40, 50, 60, and 70. I can easily adjust for the ranges between 20-40 and still be extremly deadly with it. Longer ranges require a pin. God Bless
I switched from the React to the Option 8 last year. Like having the fixed sites with the slider mixed in. Or if I am on a stand and have my spot picked I can just flip the fixed sites out and leave my slider as the only site. I have the flexibility to do quicker fixed pin shots or a more methodical exact ranged shot with the slider.
5-pin BG Ascent Slider for me. Love practicing out to 100 yds. Made me a better shot for sure. Especially shooting steep down-hill shots.
3 pin MBG slider. Love it
Yep, I like the option of a slider to shoot longer distances mainly in practice. Like stated it shows you form flaws at those distances. I practice a lot at 90yds. It makes a 40yd shot seem like 20yds. It also boost your shooting confidence.
3 pin MBG slider for several years now for all the reasons mentioned above.
MBG one pin slider. Used to shoot Trophy Ridge and got accustomed to shooting vertical pins. The MBG one pin slider checks that box. I really like the open sight window provided by a single pin....yes, a big part of that is my aging eyes. I also like the fact my single pin is always centered in the aperture and peep. When I upgraded sights, third axis adjustment was a must due to hunting mountain terrain. I set my pin at 30 yards and really don't need to move it in hunting situations under 40 yards.
When I was in my younger years I had a hole row of sight pins from 30 to 100. Put little yardage labels on them and shot well. Somewhere in the late 40's everything started to blur. I missed a great buck in IL and a year later I went to a single pin HHA slider and have not gone back. Rarely move it in hunting situations.
So, why do you need to see form flaws at 90 or 100 yds - f you can't see the flaw at 40 and 50, what does it matter?
Just wondering...
"So, why do you need to see form flaws at 90 or 100 yds - f you can't see the flaw at 40 and 50, what does it matter? Just wondering..."
If you have a flyer every so often, it may only miss by 4-6" or so at 40yds. It's easy to just accept it, since it's really not off by too much and may only happen once in a while. Move back to 80, 90, 100yds, and that same shot may miss the target entirely. Now, you may not take that long of a shot at an animal, but it still identifies a problem that isn't as evident at a closer distance. It could be caused by bow torque, string torque, tuning issue, etc. Stick a broadhead on that arrow, and the result will normally be magnified even more. Some people are willing to accept this, some people aren't.
Long range practice also serves a couple other purposes. As Bowboy pointed out, nothing boosts confidence knowing both you and your equipment are performing at an extremely high level. If you have confidence at 80, needless to say, your confidence at 30-40 is through the roof.
Another benefit of long range practice is if things go wrong in a hunting situation. We all hope, pray, and practice so things go perfect when a shot is taken, but anyone with experience knows perfect doesn't always happen. If a wounded animal is standing broadside at 80yds, who do you think has the best chance of making a killing shot? My money's on the person that's practiced that shot for months on end.
If someone is perfectly confident in both their ability, as well as their equipment's, and choses to limit their practice to 40-50yds, then there's no need for them to change anything. However, there is zero downside to long range practice, and the advantages can be extremely beneficial.
True. But I also know that at long range, any slight deviation is magnified at the target. The 4 or 5 inches off at 40 (pie plate accurate) could be 2 or 3 feet at 100. Shooting long distance is more of a fun thing than anything else.
Best way to focus on form is when you don't necessarily have to focus so much on hitting a micro target at 100 yds. Confidence is built by consistency regardless of range. At 80 yds very, very few arrows will get the complete penetration needed, and at 80 yds there is a pretty good chance of the arrow hitting the shoulder blade instead of the ribcage behind the shoulder crease. At 80 yds, can your arrow push through the solid ridge bone on a shoulder blade and penetrate both lungs, or will it run off with 27" out of 28" sticking out?
These are the questions someone needs to ask themselves before they do it, which is why I'm not concerned about slider sights anymore. Of course, I'm talking about elk here...
So am I. To each their own.
I like to practice at long yardage utilizing the slider and prefer hunting at shorter yardage utilizing my fixed pins. Fortunate to have a place to practice long in the yard, including an 88 yd shot (line of sight down a steep hill) that really tests form and teaches one about consistent grip, sight levels, 3rd axis, etc. And no, I'm not consistent enough to hunt at those yardages.
Long range shooting practice teaches discipline. This will carry over to shots on game. Stand out there with a 3 foot by 3 foot target at 70,80,90, 100 yards with a 15 dollar arrow on the string an you will learn to have good tune and good form or you will spend some money in a hurry! Obviously you do not jump from 20 yards out to 100. Just like anything you have to build up to it.
"To each their own".
Yep, that's what it always boils down to and we do what gives us the most benefit.
I like the passion fellas. Keep hammering and to each their own. I'm on my way to get some practice in as we speak.
I watched all of the Land of the Free videos and loved them. The bull that Trevor (I think it was Trevor) shot at 85 yards was already wounded.
He shot it at 85 yards only because it was already wounded by another shooter.
I don't shoot at healthy animals beyond 40 yards because I don't need to. I can "hunt". But I will tell you this: Practicing at distance will make you a better shooter than ANY other form of shooting/practicing. It just forces perfection, it will not except lazy shots, or half hearted practice sessions. I haven't practiced outdoors inside of 60 yards in years, and on top of all the facts in regards to the effects and benefits of distance shooting... It is just plain more fun, and more interesting...
A sloppy shot is a sloppy shot. The only difference is is that the margin of error in close (inside 50) is an acceptable kill shot while at twice the distance is a complete miss. Otherwise, shooting LD for practice is fun but time consuming.
Shooting at a 3 foot square target with a 12" center at 100 yds is no different than shooting a 12" with a 2" center at 35 or 40, depends on what your standard for consistent form and shot placement is. You WILL NOT hit the 2"center repeatedly without good form and/or follow through, regardless.
If shooting long distance is the only way to get good at it, traditional archers have no business bowhunting...
At 100 yards a "Sloppy shot" on a 3 foot target you will be spending most of your time looking for arrows. And for the most part you are correct on your later statement from what I've seen and heard... ;-)
I love practicing out to 60 yards. A big reason I also considered a Hogg father or Fast Eddie XL is to also extend my practice ranges.... I don't shoot at animals outside of 40 yards. Unless it's in a field and there is no wind I suppose. Then I'd stretch to 50. I like those two sights. However, I need to get my broadheads working first. hahah (refer to my whisker biscuit post that I posted.)
3-pin BG Ascent Slider. Solid sight making LR shooting uncomplicated.
"spending most of your time looking for arrows"
Be doing the same on a 12" target at 35 yds as well. It's all relative - wouldn't even think about making a 100 yd practice shot without a good backstop...
I disagree. I would have to make one hell of a bad shot to miss a 12 inch target at 35 yards. Regardless of what you say, there is just more at "stake" so to speak at 100 yards. You should practice how ever makes you comfortable, but distance shooting (the right way) will change a shooter... Period
All anyone needs to be concerned with is "aim small, miss small". On a 12" target, pulling 6" in any direction is a clean miss. How much movement at the bow results in 6" at 35 yds? Not much. Do archery coaches insist beginning archers start shooting at 100 yds - after all, it magnifies form flaws, right?
Disagree all you want, consistent patterns through repitition is what will make you a better archer. Distance is irrelevant, period.
Add me to the list of those who disagree. During my 40+ years of bowhunting, I have ALWAYS practiced at distances well beyond what I consider to be my effective range for hunting. Makes shooting within my effective range feel like a slam dunk.
Shooting at distance can show a lot of problems, but for many, isn't the best way to get those problems fixed.
One big problem is the increased movement in the sight picture and associated anxiety when executing the shot (anticipation), which in turn increases the movement.
Option 8, with 5 pins. Want fixed, leave it closed, slider with no other pins obstructing your sight window, open it up. Plus, its bullet proof construction is A+. Want to buy a CBE, great sight, housing is heavy, mounting bracket is nice and heavy duty, toothpick that holds the 2 together not so much.
Very true, WB. Long range shooting can help identify problems, but it certainly shouldn’t be used to help correct those problems.
One of the best ways to improve at anything, not just shooting, is stepping out of your comfort zone. By doing so, you can slowly expand that comfort zone. That’s why getting to the point where you’re comfortable, and confident, shooting at 60, 70, or further, gives you so much more confidence for those 30-40yd shots.
Regarding CBE sight. My partner just got one of their $350 jobs after waiting 2 months. .030" clearance in the head assy and no way to take it out. You can move it by hand. All of the ones at Redding were the same way.
To the original question - None.
Why? Bow sights are a mechanical device that will fail at some point and cannot take serious abuse in the field.
Combined with dependence on a range finder (another mechanical/electronic device) and you have two modes of failure against you that can happen at any random point in time. Sooner if you take a hard fall in a shale slide...
If you're going to shoot over 60 yards, these sights make sense. That said, if you're far enough away to look down and turn a dial, you're probably not that close.
The kind of hunting I do, they're more of a hindrance than a help. They're heavy as hell and big and bulky. If you're in a tree stand all day and your bow sits on a screw in or you're taking really long shots on open-country animals you stalked, then I can see them being worthwhile. For my style of hunting, I don't want a heavy, bulky bow - I wont even use a bow quiver because of the wt/bulk.
The shot I'm looking for is under 25 yards because it's funner and more reliable. And I can't be adjusting a sight for the difference between 8 yards and 40 with my heavy arrows out of a low poundage bow. From elk to Coues, almost all of my animals the past several years have been in tight-confined heavily wooded areas with close shots because that's the way I hunt.
I used to shoot out to 110, but it's not what does it for me nowadays. I really think that shooting past the range you'd take a shot at an animal is important, but 50 yards is my outside shot nowadays and 60 is my absolute max and that's a feeding animal. So I don't practice that far anymore. For me, it's so much more fun to practice 25-30 yard shots on my recurve than 100 yard shots with my compound.
I think the "follow-up shot" argument is overblown by people who are comfortable taking 80 to 100+ yard shots on unwounded animals and I'm fine with that if you're good at it and that's your thing. I think more animals are wounded between 25-40 than between 80-150.
Nonetheless, my 5 pins lay low in my window and the bottom of my window is 80 and the bottom outer ring is 115 - specifically for that purpose of flinging arrows at wounded animals and I practice those shots off of them (although less and less), but I think the odds of ever taking them are pretty much nil.
I passed what would have been my biggest elk this year, twice at around 70 yards. Honestly, I'd rather pass the occasional 70-80 yard shot that I could make hands down with a Spot Hogg, than to carry the damn thing around for miles on end and mess up a 47 yard shot or an 8 yard shot because I needed time to stop, look down, and turn a dial.
Treeline, anybody that can't hunt without subjecting their gear to "serious abuse", or uses gear that can "fail at any time", they should probably just stay home.
Gotta agree with Bob on that
Not everyone shoots 260fps.
Or shoots them clear out to 40 yards.
Idyl- Agree with much of your above post. I do not shoot a slider/movable for hunting. I shoot the Armortech and or Reo-Tech.
I had the React sight you currently have and got rid of it. It had a problem with the pins being loose and vibrated way too much. I now have the Black Gold Pure Adrenalin 75 (3) pin sight. Best sight I've owned. I feel it is even better than the HHA sight I've owned. Three pin is not too cluttered and I can dial out to 100 yards for those long 3d shots or 70 and 100 yard at range. I have pins set at 20, 30 and 40.
"I think more animals are wounded between 25-40 than between 80-150."
I know some bowhunters that start at 100 yds, shoot with intent to kill but always wound and then do a follow up at 25 for the kill - exactly backwards.
One of the funnest 3D shoots I've been to was a golf shoot. Every on a team "teed" off each target at 600 yds, then started shooting at the closet arrow to the target the rest of the way, the team with the least amount of shots or "strokes" won. This was before the days of slider sights, so everyone had a flu-flu in their quivers.
Personally, I consider any sight with 5 or 6 pins obsolete. Especially, if your primarily hunting open country and stalking..
Pigsticker: I guess Hunt Man and I, and countless others are just "obsolete" when it comes to killing then...
I'm jumping in late, but back to your original question...I have two Halon 32's. They are heavier than most bows but I personally like a heavier bow. I have a Hogg Father on one and a Fast Eddie XL on the other. Both are awesome in my opinion. My HF is a single .10 pin and the XL is a single pin with two .10 fibers. I just ordered the 2 fiber upgrade for my HF. I practice 20-100+ and having only one pin in my sight window has helped me a lot.
I would never argue against a multi pin sight either. Too many terrific hunters on here using them and up until a couple years ago I used one as well.
As mentioned there are plenty of other issues to consider when focusing on accuracy but in answer to your question, the single pin sights have been great for me. Have fun with it and good luck!
I shoot all Black Gold sights on my Bows because they are Montana made with excellent quality and service.
They also support Bowsite as a sponsor the last 9 years.
Elkman, It is an opinion first and foremost plus just because you are lethal does not mean that what you are using is the most effective. I could equally say that there are killers on Bowsite that can hunt that shoot beyond 40 yards. "I don't shoot at healthy animals beyond 40 yards because I don't need to. I can "hunt".
Let's assume a 5 pin guy is setup with pins from 20 to 60 yards. If you are gap shooting at 55 yards there is no way that most people would be as accurate as a guy who dials in 55 yards. I haven't even discussed sight clutter and etc...
P. S. I could get more Bowsite naysayers of a rage broad heads but you kill with those too.
If an animal is 40 yards and beyond I typically have plenty of time to adjust the slider.
A single pin slider cost me an elk one year, pin set at 30 being in dark timber and elk was at 53. While adjusting sight it turned and walked up the hill.
Some will say I should've practiced more holding over at 50, but then that defeats the whole purpose to a slider, doesn't it...
Well then, what is the point to a slider - long range practice only?
HDE it is all a matter of preference. No right or wrong answer. I'm interested in a slider for long range practice, and perhaps putting the smackdown on some larger game at longer yardage. You are only most lethal with your own setup.
I am not advocating single pin only but if I could not have a multiple pin slider then single pin would be the route that I would go.
"but I am damn good with it set at 25yds to the 40 yd range"
How are you at 50 though, when the pin is set at 30? With a pin at 50, I am damn good as well but if I have to guess with holdover, maybe not so much. When shooting in the backyard at a target and holding over, there is usually a set reference of some sort like a "landmark", in the field there isn't, so likely, some other form of reference is used - the middle or bottom of the pin post, top of the level, bottom of the sight housing, etc. - in essence, a second and third pin. Mind you, this is for distances beyond the normal aim high of the pin at the top of the back.
Sliders give the exact point of aim when the distance is known and the sight dialed in. In a hunting situation you may or may not have time to adjust, in my case there wasn't. My top pin set at 30 means I will be 4" high at 20 and 4" low at 40 - still well within the 12" square and no miss unless something else happens such as dropping your bow or pulling the shot - chont happens. Hence, the consistency regardless of distance.
My second pin set at 45 yds means I will be a couple inches high at 40 and around 4" low at 50 - I would've been able to "pinwheel" that elk that year before it turned to go up the hill.
After years of trial and error, for me, the setup I'm doing now works best. It is indeed a personal preference and there is no right or wrong way. The only wrong answer is when what somebody is doing or using is the "best in the industry"...
Single pin sliders have cost more guys, more animals than "pin clutter" ever will... Nuff said
I can attest to the benefits of practicing at longer ranges - shooting at 40 - 60 yards has made the 30 yard shot an absolute piece of cake. My current sight is a 5 pin Spot Hogg sent from 20-60 yards. I doubt that I would go to a single pin sight but like the idea of a sight with fewer pins to cover the hunting ranges and the ability to dial in for longer range practice. Good luck
You are not limited to single pin sliders...
I shoot the 5 pin BG slider with the 60 yd being the slider pin. Out to 100 yds. When i notice torque or follow through errors. I go to 100 yds and for what ever reason i instantly follow through better. Even though I of course know I must follow through at 40. This thread is a good example of 20 ways to skin a cat. what ever works for you. It’s all about repeatability. We all don’t have to hold the bow the same either as long as we do it the same way each shot.
OK, picked up a MBG Widowmaker yesterday. Wanted to move the two lower sight pins down. 5/64 allen wrench is too big, 1/16, too small. WTH..... Also after shooting for a bit, I noticed a very loud buzz coming from what seems to be the flo green sight ring. Any one else have those issues?
Metric?
Nope. 2mm = .079", 5/64 = .781". 1.5mm = .059, 1/16 = .063. Those are standard size wrenches.
I just checked my three Montana Black Gold sights dating from 2007 to 2016 manufacture. All sight pins use a 5/64 Allen wrench to adjust. Maybe your 5/64 wrench is buggered up? Good luck!
Kurt,
Automation Engineer/machine builder here. All five sets of wrenches are in good shape, worn, but in good shape. The wrench part isn't near as irritating as the buzzing from the sight ring.
I'd call Black Gold on the buzzing and Allen head issue and let them take care of it.
Shooting both BG and CBE...BlackGold four (4) pin custom, just because they're BlackGold and have the best Customer Service around! CBE I actually have two that I go back and forth on...A Single Pin for Turkey and Treestand stuff and a Three (3) pin for Spot & Stalk and longer shooting when I need to...
I wish CBE had BlackGolds CS and pin brightness, but I did find that changing the fibers to after markets really helped out...
I suspect cheap shcs's and the buzzing might be the fiber tubes? I had to caulk around the tubes on my spot Hogg.
I shoot everything with the same 60lbs bow. Spots, field, 3d and hunt all with the same setup. I shoot a 4 pin MBG Accent slider. I put the bottom 50 yard pin right in the center of the housing. The top 20 yard pin is way up high in the housing.
For hunting situations like elk I love most, I use the 20, 30, 40 and 50 pins whenever in the heat of the moment with the slide zero'd to those yardages. For spots, field and 3D, I use the slider and have the bottom 50 yard pin slide from 18 to 93 yards before clearance is an issue with my 27.5" draw length.
Best of both worlds for the person who just loves the flight of an arrow regardless of it's intended target. If I feel like hucking I'm good to go to 100. If I need to drop x's on a vegas target I'm good to go. When elk hunting in the timber or some late season open bowl, I've got it all in hand at the turn of a dial.
Cheers, Pete
