Sorry, but I disagree, particularly in the case of African hunts. More publicity has the potential to put the real truth in front of reasonable people who would otherwise have no idea. Hunting should be open, seen and mainstream.
Its not at all like teenagers masturbating, where everybody knows its happening and you can't stop it, but as long as its' not seen it's tolerated. Difference is, hunting can be stopped and it will be if we don't have a presence and acceptance by virtue of familiarity.
Most younger people post everything they do , its the new thing ! I don't understand it , but that's the difference , I didn't grow up with Facebook , so I don't care about bragging or putting my day to day life on for the world to see . I will never have a Facebook account and I am ok with that .
While I agree that remaining low profile might save some hunters embarrassing moments on social media, (I'm pretty low profile myself), I don't think it's gonna be the end of hunting. The end is gonna come because the last couple of generations are more interested in sports, gaming, etc. The urban lifestyle pretty much guaranteed the end of hunting, but like most everything else, it's a slow process. We are slowly becoming a third world country, with illegals streaming in like locusts. How many of them hunt ? Damn few I suspect. How many of their kids are gonna hunt ? Even less. The odds are against us. There will come a time when WE will be the poachers if we still hunt. Thankfully, I will no longer be here when that day arrives.
Happy 4th ! Our forefathers are spinning in their graves...
And just what the hell do some on here do when they pose for a Deer trophy shot or a pic with an Elk or bear or any other critter killed... ... thank GOD we have hunters like Tess... I wish I had the money to go there and do what many like her did ... if you twits dont like it, go join PETA ... they need the likes of you dopes ... If she wanted to post it, more power to her .... and I dont go anywhere near Facebook or any other dump like that ... what about the hunting mags, the TV shows about African hunting.... I'm all for it .. as long as its legal RIGHT !! ... not endangered RIGHT ... Go get 'em Tess !!.. way to go girl !! ....
Twitter seems to well-populated with the mentally ill. Every time I see something go viral on twitter, the crazies inevitably come out. This is no exception.
I agree with those who oppose hiding their hunting success. I hunt, and I eat what I shoot. And I'm proud of it, with pictures in my office. My house has many game heads on the wall, and needs more. I'm proud of my hunting heritage. Those that are against it, well, too bad. If your ancestors had not hunted, you wouldn't be here.
JTV..... Twits ? Dopes ? You are entitled to your opinion, but if you post that on Facebook then you are the dope ! I'm not a damn drop ashamed of the fact that I hunt, but I associate with like minded people. I have no liberal "friends", no anti hunting "friends", but I don't haul my deer down the highway on the hood either. I also don't do ANY social media outside of hunting forums. Why would I ? I'm not interested in what they're doing and don't care if they're interested in what I'm doing. If I want to keep up with friends or family I pick up the phone or visit. Anybody that posts kill pics on facebook, instagram and the like is begging for what she got. It IS a form of look-at-me whether you like it or not. I do agree it shouldn't be this way, but it is. That's a fact you cannot change.
Do not often agree with Boubounds tongue in cheek rhetoric but he is right, at least here in Massachusetts.
Sent picture of Velvet Buck to close friends and relatives. My brother of all people said poor thing and Howcould I kill that Buck and that I was mean. Hello- this is the same guy that gave me his Fred Bear Whitetail2 20 years ago. I was also booed heartily at my Rotary club for giving a Happy Dollar for that same Velvet Buck.
Boubound is right, close to the vest, backyard hanging and Bowsite only!
Its not just animals. It’s the larger outrage culture that’s drugged up on pills and trying pat themselves on the back for being social justice warriors. Social media just gives those idiots a collective voice.
Give the haters some venison and they’ll usually shut up. I’m not trying to shove anything in people’s face, but certainly won’t hide my lifestyle. We need to educate. The woman killed an old animal that provided a lot of meat for the native people. Great job.
Take a look at the Hollyweird attitude expressed in their media, such as Jurassic park. Save the dinos, as its not OK to kill but OK to release them upon unsuspecting public when they have been demonstrated to kill people.
Yepper , Yah sure.
Not one to be ashamed of the fact I hunt and fish. We put the animal on a game hauler covered with tarp but sometimes parts stick out, also the general non-hunting public can be curious.
I remember the last one I shot my son was proud as could be to be with me when we picked up lunch at Subway. A few folks wandered past wondering what was under the tarp. He told the story, most were appreciative, thumbs up as he was planning on eating every bit of it, just like the Subway you just came out of folks.. A Chinese couple was there with their kid and appreciated the fact some folks (US citizens) could still hunt for their own food. We don't hear much about public hunting in China, do we??
The hypocritical, hopelessly-naive antis will especially despise a female hunter, and tend to lash out the most at that particular demographic. This is because the concept of women hunting flies in the face of their ridiculous false narrative that hunting is primarily a testosterone-driven blood-sport killing orgy embarked upon by murder-crazed white males, in order to get their jollies. That we only hunt for the thrill of raining death onto these hapless hug-able creatures. But, in the same way that we know it's "bad press" to strap a fresh deer-kill to the hood and parade it down main street, thus jamming it under the nose of mall chicks, soccer moms, and the entire snowflake generation....it is similarly unwise to blast your kill pics into the mixed crowd poring over social media every day.
Ummm, WRONG !! .....she said they got OVER 2000 lbs of meat out of it... Giraffe is very edible and the local tribes will eat every bit of it they can .... Giraffe can be very hard to hunt... quit watching the Disney channel .... hell, deer in some areas are not that hard to hunt/kill either, but yet we do it to manage the specie .... quite a bit of ignorance on this thread ... what about deer killed and given to Hunters for the Hungry or a doe killed and given to the Farmer... the hunter wasnt going to eat it was he/she ... sheesh !!
I am very circumspect when it comes to sharing pictures.
But... I gotta wonder. Unapologetically posting pictures that others may find disturbing, expressing themselves in public in a fashion that may upset others, behaving in ways that many find inappropriate...
Seems to have worked just fine for the minuscule fraction of the population that's LBGTQAIP2SPIRIT
The link explains that the giraffe was an old bull that no longer bred. It had killed two other breeding bulls. That species of giraffe has a growing population. They got two thousand pounds of meat.
Instead of piling on the hunter, I think that shaming and mocking the uninformed idiots could be more effective. I'm growing weary of attempted appeasement.
Don't like my culture? Want to comment negatively about it? Pound sand! I've got plenty to say about theirs!
EF Hutton. I find your above and other similar posts quite ironic given that you use the name of a famous person as your bowsite "handle". Do you have a need to be recognized and listened to? Don't get that sought after respect from killing a doe or two in the back forty? Why push yourself forward here if you just want obscurity?
Taking out an older mature animal does just that ... it is conservation and wildlife management at work ... I have 21 animals on my walls as I type this... many were taken before the age of the internet... I am proud of every one of 'em ... I have fought animal rights activists tooth and nail, hand to hand so to speak and never did I once back down .... one will never appease these whack jobs of the left ... dont even try ... by posting and explaining what she did, she is showing why conservation and wildlife management works.... there are those non-hunters who will understand... then there are the whack jobs that never will.... Women hunters are a huge growing segment of the hunting population... more power to 'em and if they want to show off fine, but be prepare for the dolts on the left to attack ... I just wouldnt expect it from our ranks ....
From: sticksender- “The hypocritical, hopelessly-naive antis will especially despise a female hunter, and tend to lash out the most at that particular demographic. This is because the concept of women hunting flies in the face of their ridiculous false narrative that hunting is primarily a testosterone-driven blood-sport killing orgy embarked upon by murder-crazed white males, in order to get their jollies. That we only hunt for the thrill of raining death onto these hapless hug-able creatures.”
I agree 100%. Female hunters are attacked the hardest. They are feared by the antis way more than us.
A firestorm that happened over a year ago and we're just hearing about it now, doesn't sound like a very big storm. Good for her, she wanted to hunt it, paid big money to benefit the community and supplied the local with 2000 lbs of meat, what have the anti psychos who posted about her done for conservation? its a lead activity in which benefits many of the locals, F*+k the antis. Tired of having to tip toe because some wacko liberal isn't going to like it.
Since the public posting of dead animal pictures is an "extra step after the conclusion of a hunt", what and who does it benefit? Is it a hunter recruitment tool? Ego booster? What are the real benefits to the public and general voting society of this added step?
EF Hutton forgets that it was common in the old days (70s-80s) to have a picture of a hunter and buck in the newspaper. For every negative social media hunting post, there are thousands that are positive. It also makes it easier for game wardens to catch poachers. They just find them on the computer.
I back them up and do believe women hunters are unfairly judged. I am however perplexed by public postings in the first place, not sure why it is done. Simply sharing with like minded individuals seems more appropriate.
This wasn't a guy posting a bear being speared and moaning as it dies. This was a women who killed a legal animal, a mature animal, had the science to prove it was the right animal for her to kill, provided many a meal for people with it, and did no wrong. Good for her
Times have changed. We can't do anything about that. Posting fish caught , Bunches of morals found , shed horns picked up or a kids first buck is just normal for the times. Social media is the 21st century way of communication. I don't do any posting of trophy pictures but I don't see anything wrong with it either. Actually it may , in the whole scheme of things , shed a more positive light on hunting than do it harm. According to the 2010 census in the U.S. over 80% of our population lives in urban areas. A large portion of that urban population has no exposure to our hunting culture and have little to no understanding of it. When a post like the one this thread is about is made many non-hunters will see it. Should we hide from the public eye because we kill our own meat? Maybe we should do our best to educate the nonhunting public using the mainstream methods available. The PETA and HSUS people are watching everything we do anyway. They use television , radio and social media to advance their twisted and unrealistic agenda! More of the nonhunting public will be for us if they are made aware of the facts of wildlife management and how the vast majority of hunters utilize the game meat they harvest. We as hunters will never change the minds of the so called " animal activists" but we do have the chance with reasonable minded people who have never been exposed to hunting. Maybe the social media platform should be put to use to show our side. Where else will people who don't hunt be exposed to the truth about hunting and hunters? I asked my 28 yr old vegetarian daughter " if someone in any of your social media groups posted a picture of an animal they killed when hunting would you be offended?" Her reply was an immediate " no" . She went on to say that in her environmental biology class at yavapai college never once was hunting mentioned as a cause or detriment to wildlife populations or their ecosystems. She did say that poaching was! As I finish this post i find myself thinking that I should be posting some pics of the critters I catch and shoot. Along with some pictures of my plate of backstraps n onions with an explanation of how non GMO that plate of food is ! No growth hormones either!! Bring on the rebuttals I'm ready...
Hero worship of "celebrity hunters" is the root of the problem. If she didn't have 10k followers would the antis have even seen it? If she didn't have 10k followers would she even have posted it? This is how we are our own worst enemy as was mentioned in another thread.
From what I gathered someone else started blasting the young lady`s photo with the Giraffe around...not her. If you run and hide and don`t stand up for what you believe in then you are right....we will be run over. How about that photo of Melissa....she`s my fav.
If we hide what we do it makes it look worse in my opinion. We shouldn't fear the backlash from antis. We should embrace it. When I kill a deer, it doesn't ride in the back of my suv. It rides on the top! I'm proud to be a bowhunter and I don't give a shit about what some anti thinks. I post my pictures of dead deer on social media for the same reason I post pictures of my kids or my projects. I'm proud of them and it's part of who I am. If someone else doesn't like it that's just too bad for them.
We had a woman here who shot a monster 12pt and our local newspaper wrote an article about it. That story made it to social media and she got some backlash. Her response was pretty simple. The hunt was exiting, she's proud of her kill and she doesn't care if others don't like it. I say good for her.
We are hunters and shouldn't be shamed into keeping our hobby behind closed doors.
EF do you use a step ladder or have you built a ramp to get up on that high horse?
You mean the 80’s like all the pics i see where guys strapped deer to the hoods of vehicles?
Times change, they always change, when you were young there was old timers griping that things weren’t the way it used to be. No matter how much you want it to be the days of your youth it just isn’t. Doesn’t mean you’re better.
I’m assuming you lump yourself into the rural group seeking solitude and quietness yet you come on here and try to stir the pot and make all kinds of generalizations about urban people rural people young people old people. Ok, whatever.
From the generation who pioneered social media (I turn 30 this year) I think you guys against social media posting have a point! I’m limiting what I post as well. Still haven’t posted my bear from last month and not sure I will
E F, the link you posted was one persons theory in 1943. It is by no means an all encompassing reality of society today.
When we the hunting subculture become afraid to stand in the open, our voices can't be heard. The anti hunting subculture is however as loud as they've ever been. Please explain how "shutting the barn door" helps us.
What we are doing is legal. What we are doing is beneficial for our environment. I think we should leave the barn door open and give somebody the opportunity to change their opinion.
Btw, kids playing basketball in the street is a good thing. It means they're not in the basement playing video games or in the backyard drinking and drugging.
Someone hunts legal game, it is consumed, and post a picture of it and is ridiculed by other hunters. This is what will end hunting! I don't care if it is an elephant, giraffe, deer, or a rabbit, it is still an animal. Those dollars spent for that type of hunt go a long ways in fighting poaching as well as helping locals with much needed protein. I think hunters really need to educate themselves before spewing hate and discontent towards another hunter.
I had a buddy put it to me like this after the Cecil incident. Let's take two people and decide who has a more positive impact on hunting: #1 A woman who legally harvest a giraffe and post a clean success photo. #2 This guy blast her for doing such a horrible thing and has never hunted Africa and never will. Without #1 hunting would not exist in the future in Africa. Without #2 I would not have wasted the last 15 minutes of my life reading this!
I vacillate between "pick your battles" and "never leave the field to your enemy." The truth is, the young lady did nothing wrong on ANY level. That stated, in this world, if you publicize, you better be equipped to win the audience. Not necessarily the critics but the ones reading the justification.
+1 Beav...we are our own worst enemy. If hunters would just be happy for each other and celebrate the success of others we would be well on our way. Instead everything becomes a &!@# measuring contest where greed, envy, and malice brings out the worst in human nature for all too large a segment of our sport.
I do not have any other source of social media other than BS and MM . I do feel hypocritical alot of the time because I believe social media of ALL sorts has impacted Hunting in a way I personally do not like . Sucks to see a fellow hunter taking heat like this ..
Better learn how to adapt EF the critters we hunt do..I have never met a whitetail who just laid down and gave up. Make the internet a tool for our use instead of letting the antis monopolize it. Have you ever heard of Chad Mendes?? Check his Instagram out. Cam Hanes uses the web as a pro hunting platform very effectively . Have you ever looked into that? No disrespect meant but it is what it is . Haters are gonna hate . How many positive comments were posted about that lady hunters giraffe pic ?
Let me give you guys a little background on EF aka Lamplighter. I've mentioned it before but his real name nor city/state is the ones listed in his profile. He has frequented another forum I moderate for years and dispenses the same garbage on there. He's always trashed the "look at me" hunters for years, but as soon as he finally killed a good buck he was posting about it on that forum before he even stopped shaking in the tree. He immediately posted a picture of it as well. He's a huge hypocrite and is extremely condescending. He fancies himself an expert on human behavior and takes a lot of pleasure in baiting folks on forums. If no one initially responds to his bait, he'll delete it. If not, he'll periodically post to keep it going. He was a LA game warden for 10 years but apparently could not navigate the political climate of a government position and "retired??"
I posted his deer kill on another thread the other day. If sitting on the deers back holding the deer's rack doesn't say look at me....
Nice try. If you're going to mention my wife's name spell it right, and when you're done with that, I advise you to leave her out of it from here on out. Perfect testament to your lack of integrity and character.
Mr EF, So now you are on this thread causing a stir. You did the same thing to me in the thread “bear protection” . You attacked me for being in competent. You asked me three questions. I answered all three. I then asked you one question to understand your understanding of bear behavior. You didn’t answer. I asked you again. You didn’t answer. So now I ask the same question on this thread because I know you are reading this.
“ How many Canadian Provinces have you Bear hunted in?
"Why should hunters sulk in the shadows of society while other controversial groups are paraded around as mainstream America"
Exactly! I live in very liberal Madison WI. I wear camo as much as I can. I want every single liberal to know I hunt and bring it up into conversation very often. I'll show them my dead animal pics, and most often they are happy for me. They understand I'm very passionate about hunting and more so just the animals. I'm not gonna "put my tailgate up" or not wear camo, or be afraid to show that I am a hunter and dam proud of it! Any liberal or anti hunter that has a problem with it can go pound sand up their ass. We can have a discussion about why I do it if they would like, and I'll gladly try and change their views with conversation and reasons why I and all my hunting brothers and sisters love it too. Some of you act scared and don't wana show your a hunter. I suggest you stand up and be proud that you are!
For the record--this is my only social media. I do agree that posting pics on social media pages just brings ALOT of negative feedback. But if you talked to them face to face and showed them the pictures I would bet the reactions would be different. But Africa is a whole different ballgame....
EF.....I seriously question your contention that you are as rural as you claim to be.
I grew up on a farm so far back in the sticks, that the sun set between our place and town. Scooped more than my share of pig$hit out the barn windows. Most of my friends and relatives lived in the country as well. Never once in my life have I ever heard anyone around there use the term “peeps”. The only peeps I was ever exposed to, came from under a hen brooding a clutch of eggs, or I possibly got some peeps in my Easter basket when I was 4.
The term “peeps” is used in mostly an urban environment like the hood, so I contend that you are a fraud.......Ya feelin me, dawg?
Boubound,,,, I no what you are saying, but of course it also depends on where you live, pretty normal in the UP, to see deer hanging in the front yard, and dead bear in the trucks with the dogs, at the grocery store, will not get much of a second look, unless its a real big bear,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I never posted a picture here. but I do enjoy them, I have to learn how first. I really like the photos you guys posts of your trips, like the ones from Mike Mitten, and Elkman and so many others,
I do not have any other social media means or care too
I'm all for splashing it everywhere. EXCEPT: there are certain "iconic" species that need to be hunted, but beware to the poster of their picture on social media. . . .
Any type of monkey
Great bears (polar bears especially)
Zebras ("how could you kill a horse?")
I'm all for posting deer and elk and such. But these "iconic" species really trigger people.
For example. . . I have a friend and colleague that is an Ivy League educated attorney. He's one of the smartest people I know. He's one of the most conservative people I know. He owns guns. He has no problem with any hunting. Except for elephant and rhino. He understand why they should be hunted. He understands the conservation and money issue, and making them valuable, etc. But he doesn't care. He will say that.
We just can't make people understand why we would kill some of these "iconic" animals. People that would try your deer or elk steaks. Farmers that raise animals for slaughter. Etc. They just don't get why we would want to kill some of these animals.
You can spout conservation and money and value all day long. They don't care.
So unless you want the controversy (and some undoubtedly do), then I wouldn't post those pics anywhere. (I know a Bowsiter and instagram user that recently shot a vervet. He didn't post it anywhere. Smart man)
E F, your perception of reality is so far off it's comical. You're schooling was too long ago to be relevant in a conversation today. You've officially lost touch with the changing times. The things they taught in your sociology classes back then are far different from what is being taught in my sons sociology classes. Societal norms have and continue to evolve.
Again I stand by my opinion that if we hide what we do our voices can't possibly be heard. Huntings demise will come from us being afraid to be mainstream while the antis agenda is being pushed more and more. We need to be public about our hobby and stand up for each other against the antis or it will slowly fade into oblivion.
I'm surprised at some responses here. I have zero problem posting a tasteful picture on FB of a deer, elk, pig, turkey, black bear, or anything else you would eat. I take a few minutes and clean the animal up, no blood, no tongue etc.
I also post more pictures of the meat and processing of the meat than of the critter. Pic of my kids helping process the meat. I look for the opportunity to educate people about conservation, meat processing, recipes, the unique experiences I encounter in nature that 99% of the rest of society will not experience. I've had nothing but positive comments, or people asking genuine questions about the above.
That said I understand where Bou is coming from regarding some hunters that do the drive around with exposed deer, freaking people out walking in to a gas station covered in blood and taking tasteless pics of the bloody animal, or putting a beer can in its mouth to hold it open etc etc. A little common sense and couth would go a long ways.
The unequivocal success of the social media Phenomenon is fueled by narcissism. Pictures like this on that platform does nothing but feed incessant narristic needs of both the poster and the commentors be they suppotter or critics . Good sense, prudence and class are no longer even considered.
I play Fantasy Football and it was a 32 team league and I was replying to a question on how my vacation way ( a notice to everyone I was gone for a week for trading etc)
I posted a picture of my black bear and one guy replies how offended he was and how he cried about it blah blah blah. Ya'll know how it goes, a crap storm ensued.
Funny though .... same guys post things that I might find offensive and I have to respect their views and decisions and posts but then when its me and hunting? i have to also bow to their feelings.
Sorry, I just don't play that game anymore. I don't have to. I'll post what I want when I want when it comes to hunting. I'll not apologize for it either since hunting and sportsman have paid 100 years for the rebuilding of America's wildlife and game animals.
I belong to a KETO group on fb and people are always sharing recipes and food protocols, etc. I am very plain about my hunting, killing and eating wild game. About 95% of the group are women and I have heard not 1 negative comment. Lots of curiosity. Tell someone you kill and eat a bear and people will wrinkle their noses. Tell people you kill and eat a bear to lose weight and they send you virtual high fives for being legit. Apologetics has always been about accessing the psychology of the audience as best you can.
I don't do Social Media and don't plan to. "To Me" it sounds like a bunch of High School kids who never grew up. Trying to intimidate the ones who didn't fit into their judgmental minds of what is proper, Those who didn't fit into "THE" clique/group, were ridiculed and belittled. It drove me insane then and still does to this day. Do you run and hide from bullies? Those of you who say we shouldn't be proud of what we do/have done and not show it off, that is what you are doing. That is all these people are. Yes shot animals should be done in a tasteful presentation when placed in the public eye. To do other wise you feed the sharks more than normal. To show photos though it is not banging our chests to say "Look at what I did!", in an in your face kind of way. The photo's shows the accomplishment of the effort put into the hunt, a memory of that hunt, that is wanted to be shared with others. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT? I am a firm believer you can please some of the people some of the time, but you CAN'T please all of the people all of the time. I grew up never fitting in for the most part. I grew to be independent because of that, and learned to live my life not relying on others opinions of what I should or shouldn't do. I REALLY DON'T, give a rat's backside what others may say, if I don't know you personally. Don't try and intimidated me, it ain't happening.
Some have stated that it seems women get attacked more on Social Media if they show pictures of animals they have shot. They answer is easy, for the most part (not always) women's lives are run on feelings. If they are belittled enough they feel intimidated they back down.
I feel sorry for those, to some extent (maybe), that are doing these assaults on people on Social Media. They have been bullies or are people who have been bullied. The ones who have been bullied feel redemption through the keyboards in being able to bully others. Some are sheeple, someone else does it or says it, they follow right along wanting to be in the clique/group, some would call it the MOB MENTALITY.
Why on earth anyone pays attention to these people is beyond me. My wife gets caught up with Social Media thing, like these people really mean anything to her in her life. I look at her sometimes and say WHY do you care? DANNY
I used to tell my kids, "ask yourself, what's the upside?"
This thing is now on my msn feed. What's the upside? there is none. The message about an old bull affecting breeding is buried and gone. "Neutral to hunting" people will just wonder "why kill a Giraffe?" and that question doesn't get answered.
Posting a dead Giraffe picture to a media platform where you instantly lose all control of the narrative was not a good move in my opinion. There was no way this would end up being anything but bad.
Oh you mean having animals tied to tops of cars and trunks, to transport them home after shot, if you didn't have a truck. They had done that for years. My first deer was strapped front to rear across the top of a VW Beetle (sure glad it wasn't any bigger), hour and a half drive, hey it is what I had to get it home. I still like seeing deer on cars and in the back of trucks when driving home after hunting. Nice to see what others got when I didn't. Give them a Thumbs Up when passing them if they look. Been around since 1955 at least that is what my mom has told me. Manifesto, really? DANNY
Must suck to have to hide who and what you are....People that hide stuff are usually ashamed of it. Are you ashamed, Elmer Fudd? And things that are hidden....buried....are usually forgotten about, legislated against. Thank you for your efforts to slowly kill the sport we love so much. You must be proud.....
Just curious, why is it recommended to wipe blood off and present the dead in a posed position, with no tongue hanging out? If hunters are not ashamed, why not show the real deal? What are you guys hiding and who are you trying to deceive?
In reality, I agree with Pat L., posting dead animals publicly does no good, only potential harm.
"Just curious, why is it recommended to wipe blood off and present the dead in a posed position, with no tongue hanging out?"
Ill speak for myself - because it looks better thats why. I will also make sure the sun is behind me (if its out) and may even move it a few yards to get a different background or to get something out of the background.
You and I may see nothing wrong with what this lady did, but it's because we understand the greater scheme of things.
We are able to hunt at the discretion of the neutral majority. Screw the antis. All we have to do is keep the neutral majority neutral.
Pointing to Jesus with a dead giraffe does not help keep the neutral majority, neutral. It flips a few of them to antis and gives antis fuel to pour on the fire.
When you have members among the hunting community that bristle at this, that should tell you something. We are the fringe. And the middle are to the left of us on this, so think how they must feel about it.
It being a "right" is no argument. I have the "right" to walk around in women's clothing. That doesn't mean that I do it.
Tactfulness is a worthwhile thing for tact's sake, alone. We also don't burp and fart loudly in restaurants even though everyone burps and farts.
"and to say if people feel the need to do something out of public display that is because the are ashamed. of. that is ridiculous. have you ever taken a crap?"
To compare taking a crap to hiding a dead deer is disingenuous at best. And I do agree to a point that certain animals should not be displayed because of the negative attention we will receive. But to suggest we completely hide in the shadows..... Sorry , that's the way to become irrelevant. And things that are irrelevant typically go away.
Everyone that knows me, knows I hunt. I've hung deer on my kids swing set to skin them. I swear the one time half the kids in the neighborhood were there, along with one of the moms. None of them hunt, nor their parents. But they had a ton of questions, "Can I touch it? Is that were you shot it? "Did it take a long time for it to die?" The mom mentioned "I could never shoot that poor thing?" I asked her "How about eating it?" She just laughed and was OK with that. The point is, I didn't hide what I did. It gave me (and still does) the opportunity to show what the vast majority of hunters are like. A teachable (I hate that phrase) moment. They see my son and I shooting, coming back from hunting, the family heading to church Sunday morning, clearing the neighbors sidewalk after a snow. Just an average, ordinary guy, that happens to bowhunt. Next year I am planning my first DIY elk hunt. If by some dumb luck I am successful, I will be sharing that success with my friends via Facebook or Instagram.
Equating a successful hunt with burping, crapping or farting..... SMH Neither my truck nor Jeep have any stickers on them. I have no "hunting themed" tee shirts other than my camo. I do not flaunt what I am or a kill, nor do I hide it. If I stop at a Sheetz for a coffee, I park in the very back. Same with a McDonalds pit stop. I make sure I'm cleaned up. When people see me as a hunter, I want them to have a good impression. THAT is how you sway the neutral 90% that don't hunt. Not by hiding it.
Yesterday morning on Good Morning America this was a major topic. One articulate guy on the panel pointed out how hunting African game contributes a ton of money to conservation and the villagers eat the meat. How giraffes in this part of Africa are actually increasing.
The other high-profile panelists would have none of that, while pointing out that they are not against hunting, but against "trophy hunting" of animals perceived to be "threatened". Theirs was purely an emotional response.
This is the battle we are losing with mainstream nonhunting voters who aren't anti-hunters, just anti certain kinds of hunting
I agree with EF's last post. Young people do not respect their elders and feel they are equal and entitled to everything we have worked decades to achieve. You don't get out of high school and into the same place in life your parents are at, you have to earn it. Mouthy punks, a lot of them.
"When you start a new job, you keep your mouth shut at work until you have been there and earned the right to bash veteran long time employees. "
Actually I was hired for that very reason. Because I DON'T keep my mouth shut. After twenty years in the automation design/build field and over thirty in machine design/build I have gained enough experience that I will call some one out on day one of a new job. My previous company closed last year. I lost my job as manager of Automation & Design. Started a new job with guys that had 20-25 years with the company. On the second day I was asked to review a very complex machining drawing. I mentioned and redlined the GD&T that was wrong. One of the senior engineers took offense. I asked why it was done that way. His answer. "That's the way we've always done it." I said that's an excuse not a reason. Our boss was present, looked at me and just smiled. Later, he mentioned that was exactly why he hired me. That I wasn't afraid to challenge the established hierarchy from the get go.
Not sure how millenials and the entitlement generation play into this..... Must be one of those "need to have hunted in 1984" things.
At least the giraffe didn't have a name.... We are our own worst enemy. Cecil the lion has probably helped raise countless thousands of dollars for those who oppose hunting. I am sure giraffe girl has done the same
"You mouth off day 1 to a serious working veteran you likely would not do it again."
LMAO.... You conflate mouthing off with confronting "that's the way we've always done it". Whatever.....
After six months of "challenging" said methods I was offered a mgrs position within the department. They wanted my skillset, experience, and ability to handle a large group of millenials in a professional manner.
Lil news flash for ya.....I'm 56 and I've been promoted numerous times because not only do I challenge my peers, but management as well. The "good ol boys" keep yer mouth shut office mentality is dying. And I drive a nail in that coffin every chance I get. I've had millenials, X'ers, and Boomers ask to transfer to my group. Why? Because we were successful, had fun and most importantly, I had my groups back. They got the credit for all the success, and when things weren't so successful, let's just say It stopped at my office.
You are right about one thing....you don't know jack about me.
"I just want someone to explain what the heck starting a new job, keeping your mouth shut, clock watching, and earning the right to bash veteran long term employees has to do with anything."
It has zero to do with it. Elmer Fudd seems to think he has a handle on the whole human psyche and how the entitlement generation is in your face blah blah blah , and hasn't earned the right to do anything unless it meets Fudds approval. He's quick to criticize and condemn anyone that challenges his 1984 belief system and says their quick to argue and fight when they posit a difference of opinion. He's like a crotchety old man that demands everyone see things his way.
And Fudd..... I hunted in 1984. I hunted in 1974 as well.
Bowbender brings up a point. If we hide it how do we teach about it. Butchering deer and cleaning fish in my yard or garage, I have had more people that thought it was grose and disgusting, UNTIL I talked about anatomy. I am a nurse by profession and I use that to teach those who have never experiaced the insides of animals. Explain how it is in some respect similar to ours then they get interested. If we hide it so it can't be seen, those who don't know can't be educated. Those that don't know continue with the Urban Lengends (which has no truth to it) that were started by Animal Rights people about us as hunters in general and hunting. Take the term Trophy Hunters. What does that really mean? Ask an Animal Rights person, that type of hunter is the worst of the worst. Ask a hunter you'll get a much different answer. Terms used for years have been twisted in their meanings by Animal Rights groups, so now we have to hide from them? How many of you have mounts of animals you have killed or caught of any kind? Why do you have those mounts? Do you hide them in your house so no one coming over can see them? If you have any mounts, YOU my fellow Blue Collar hunters, are Trophy Hunters! Are YOU really what Animal Rights Groups discribe as a Trophy Hunter? Hunting is a bloody sport, hey it involves blood, we can't hide from that, nor should we. How we present it to the public is what defines us as hunters. There are those who INTENTIONALLY try to be rude and crude (obnoxious) with it. THEY don't help us at all, they also need educated. Don't we want hunting to grow in numbers? I know I do, because it sure isn't now, large or small game. Don't we want to gain that interest in what we do, to recuit new hunters? I feel we have to show the public (again not hide it). If we don't show them, tell me how do we gain the interest of those who have NEVER been exposed to hunting. Are we just supposed to show the Choir? Those that choose not to hunt, that is okay, to educated them to have a better understanding of us from our side, not just the Animal Rights side, is better for us. There are those out there who see that Giraffe, who have never have hunted or been exposed to hunting, and say "I" want to do that. Of coarse we never hear about that. Animal Rights Groups have turned so many of us into to Closet Hunters, hiding what we do, because God forbid what some people will say and think about us. The Gay Community like them or not came out of the closet, because they did, have become more accepted in American Society than ever. American Hunters put themselves into a closet. Personally I think it is time for the door to that closet to be kicked back open! But what do I know, I am just a person on the Internet who takes pride in being a hunter. DANNY
"Might wanna lay off the 'shine, son. Starting to ramble....." Starting?
Bake makes a valid point concerning "iconic animals", however I agree with Bowbender. Although I'm not going to flaunt the fact I'm a hunter, I'm certainly not going to hide it either. If someone asks "why" or "how can you kill a poor defenseless animal" in a civil manner, I'll do my best to educate them on the benefits of hunting/conservation. If they choose to be confrontational rather that rational, I'll simply turn and walk away. They're a lost cause and aren't worth a second's thought.
As to shooting an "iconic" animal and keeping it all to yourself, I have a simple question to ask. Whenever the grizzly hunt finally gets out of the courts and becomes a reality, my guess is there are a whole bunch of Bowsiter's that will apply for a tag. I'm certain those who are lucky enough to draw will simply go kill a griz, put the head and hide in your closed up truck, drive home, hide it from the world, and keep your mouth shut. After all, can't get more "iconic" than a griz in the lower 48. I'd consider wolves pretty "iconic" as well. Funny thing is, whenever someone posts a story/pics of a wolf kill, everyone tells them "Great Job", as well they should. Yet a young lady LEGALLY kills a giraffe, explains how this bull can no longer breed, kills younger breeding bulls, and provides money and meat to local villagers, and these same people now want to throw her under the bus for contributing to the demise of hunting? Reminds me of the saying "With friends like these, who needs friends".
When you are on public social media and see one of our own getting bashed by frothing at the mouth anti's: Do You;
A: offer a clear, concise, accurate, factual rebuttal?
B: go off on them, responding in kind?
C: get mad, go to your safe haven hunting site and bitch about the unfairness of it all?
D: keep your head down and pretend that they're not coming for you too?
Real hunters are missing many opportunities to counter the false narratives being offered. If all anybody ever offers you is sh!t to eat, that's what you accept and develop a taste for. You should be offering an alternative, not just guys like Steve Rinella and similar. If everybody does their small part, the sum adds up fast. A lot of small contributions can add up to just as much or more than a few big ones.
No one is suggesting “hiding” the fact that we are hunters.
Again, one can not be ashamed of what we do and still not be “in people’s face” and/or combative about it.
If you don’t realize dead giraffe pics, bloody “hero” shots, laughing and high-fiving on TV as an animal expires, and generally being combative a smarta** in all discussions about hunting (a la Nugent) hurt the future of hunting - then you are a part of the problem instead of a part of the solution.
Like it or not, it’s not 1880 or even 1950 anymore.
TXHunter, if you want to present a point, great, but don't make this into something it's not. That's what the other side does. I have yet to see a video or photo where this young lady is laughing and high-fiving as the animal expired. Nor have I seen any evidence that she was a combative smarta**.
People are always preaching hunter recruitment. Not only is she young, but she's female. Two positives. Sounds like she was recruited just fine. Now you want to eat our young. Yep, great recruiting tool.
I agree the screaming and hollering, and basically acting like an a** clown does us no favors. Again, I've seen zero evidence in this case. If you use negative connotations to support you argument, when none exist, then I'd argue you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
"Equating a successful hunt with burping, crapping or farting..... SMH"
No one did that. We simply pointed out that there are some things that you don't put out in public. I don't hide the fact that I hunt and put my deer and elk on social media. But you won't see me killing an animal that people go to see in a zoo and then pointing to Jesus like I just scored a touch down, which is how millions of people (the same people who can on a whim vote to take away our hunting rights) view this sort of thing. Maybe you don't, but millions do.
Just because you and I don't see anything wrong with it, means nothing. We are a tiny minority. You don't see the news medias blowing up about Joe Blow shooting a white tailed deer... because the millions in the middle don't give a crap. That changes when you have someone shoot a "zoo animal," put it on Facebook pointing to God, and fuel a stereotype that hurts us all.
We can defend her all we want with the facts about conservation, but the voting majority don't care. They see this kind of thing as off-putting and it doesn't help our cause at all - in fact, it hurts it: Look no further than the uproar that these high-profile African hunts have created.
wyomingbullshooter I did say “dead giraffe pics” so I am on point with the microtopic.
The other is the macrotopic in response to others doing exactly what you accuse me of doing - turning a discussion about what images we portray as hunters into accusations about “hiding” or “being ashamed” of the fact that we hunt.
"..and generally being combative a smarta** in all discussions about hunting (a la Nugent) hurt the future of hunting - then you are a part of the problem instead of a part of the solution."
I despise most of the hunting shows on TV. And it's for the reasons you listed. As far as being combative.....what was the spring bear harvest in Colorado this year? Oh that's right, they don't have a spring season. Grizzly hunting in B.C.? Gone. You better believe I am combative and defensive. The reason we lose is because we constantly let the other side define the narrative and then have to defend against it. It's better to take the offense and set the tone. And we don't do that by hiding in the shadows. The 90% need to know that the blood sport of hunting is what pays for wildlife management here and abroad.
"Hunting license holders no more than 6%. When you are such a tiny minority you need to factor that into your strategy"
Yeah, you're right. Negotiating from a position of weakness has worked out so well in the past.
If you guys think I'm all about in your face tactics, wearing "Happiness is a warm gutpile" or "Bowhunters have longer shafts" tee shirts, you're way off base. I just don't think hiding in the shadows is the best way to protect our lifestyle. Take a lesson from the democratic playbook. Circle the wagons around the one accused of misdeeds and DEFEND them. Defend her. Defend her. What she did was legal, provided food for the village, dollars for the local economy. It was a win-win all the way around. But no, not only does she get shit from the antis, the hunting community piles on as well.
No, the news media doesn't blow up about Joe Blow shooting a whitetail. Yet. Give it time.
EF Hutton, Your right don't rock the boat, even if it's legal. It "was" a wild animal not a zoo animal. By your definition of what we can't show if killed, if it is in a zoo, we should not show moose, bison, cougars, bears (of any kind) they are all in zoo's, have been for years. Oh yeah let's not forget the deer, we shouldn't show those pictures, because of a Child'd Story book (and movie), and it lives in a make believe enviroment. Going back to, it is in a zoo theroy, what should we allowed to show if we killed it? Would that be nothing? Sorry had to step out of my closet, now I will go back and shut the door. DANNY
Yours isn't arguing just to argue because it is a ZOO animal. I am using common sense. We can show other African animals that are in the zoo but not others because of a connotative perspective. Who decides what to show and what not to show? This IS the problem. WE as hunters SHOULD ALL be supporting that picture! It was an accomplishment. That picture was done tastefully and respectful of the animal. We as hunters should not acting as Photo Police because as an indivdual you don't believe this picture should be shown because of how people will react. Speculation on my part, but I am guessing you feel this animal should not have been hunted and shot? Doesn't really matter. I for one am a hunter supporting another, for their leagal hunt, and am proud of her and her sharing that picture. You are arguing against it because of how you think some people will perseve it and react, because of its content? I am arguing there is NOTHING to be ashamed of in that content! We as individual have the right to agree to disagree. As a hunter I DON"T understand how this perspective even exists given the circumstaces. No wonder we are losing this battle. DANNY
I have been to Africa, killed many species. Also hunted Alaska around ten times, as well as several states, and over 15 hunting trips to Canada. I have never posted a picture,.................. am I losing the battle for you?
I would like to know how the issue being discussed has been determined a generational problem. Seems to me that pretty much the whole baby boomer generation , in Pecos words , were mouthy punks ! Now they just want things to stay the way they feel things should be. Hmmm.....Media is media . Before the internet it was print . Magazines , books ,newspapers. Does anybody out in bowsite land think that the haters never saw this stuff before Facebook? And for the sake of the conversation, the nonhunting millennials that I have association with are way more open to meaningful discussion about hunting than nonhunting baby boomers. As far as posting pictures on the internet of stuff we kill being the demise of hunting , sorry , the demise of hunting will be lack of access , habitat destruction and competition for public land use by an ever growing human population. There are ,for sure ,more factors involved than just those. But I guarantee that posting pictures on Facebook is not gonna be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Speaking of camels ,Anybody got any pics of camel's they shot?
We lost spring bear and all baiting in CO not because of trophy pictures on social media (there wasn't any In the early '90s). It was because 70% of voters didn't like the idea of baiting bears in the spring after their faces were rubbed in it.
Perception IS reality, no matter how many "facts" we as hunters present to the general public. We don't need to hide, but now when we post up our blood and guts photos the other side will jump to rub them in the noses of non-hunters.
Are we giving them ammo? Hell yes, we're loading up the 30 round clips for them. But when we lose opportunities, we won't acknowledge that our vanity, pride and stubbornness helped create the perception that helped their cause along.
Since this thread is just chasing its tail anyway.
EF, with you deep understanding of the human psyche, can you explain why you chose the “screen name” EF Hutton? It seems to run counter to all your advice for others. Oh, and the name in your profile doesn’t correlate either. People like you are fun to watch. Not interesting, just fun for a bit.
People post kill pics here all the time. Hell, half the ppl here bitching about this r the same ppl that LOL at a video of a wounded animal escaping the grasp of someone as he sits it down in front of the video camera to do a post kill interview. But in that case, it was just "the truth".
U dont like that she posted what she posted. She didnt post anything that was distespectful. Screw the anti's, they r gonna take whatever they want and twist it how they need to to get the result they want. Whether its posted on social media or here on bowsite. We need a season to come in so these keyboard, holier than thou whiners can be distracted at least a little from bitching about anything.
It didn't. I know lots of boomers who exhibit those traits also. Who started the whole TV hunter thing? Boomers! Y'all lit a fire now you want the later generations to put it out. The mainstreaming of " look at me" in colour video started with whom?? And no it was not munger and bear. They weren't selling hunting they were documenting it. The selling part started in the 70s . By the early 80s it was getting bad . In the 90s hunting started to be called an industry. Might ,in a strange way , be the only thing that's keeping it alive. Economics . Lots of money being generated . As to the " worked hard" and " apprenticed" thing , I would be willing to bet I know more about that than you ever will. The trades are starving for people now because the earlier generation DIDNT teach or pass knowledge on . All they said was " Better get a degree or you will never make anything of yourself." And I'm an employeR , for over 25 yrs. I have trained lots of apprentices ,both as an employee and employer. That dig you made earlier to bowbender was snakebelly low budget. Opinions are like ,you know, everybody has one. Difference is some choose to let it determine their direction of travel and put it up front.
There have been TV hunters ever since Curt Gowdy and the American Sportsman, long before some on here were even thought of, or were daddys little mistake .... There are a lot of companies that have a presence on Facebook and the like .. I have never been a part of that.... a good buddy of mine get a lot of his taxidermy work thru Facebook and the Safari Club ... he's been to Africa multiple times and has killed just about every thing you can think of over there... he has matching Giraffe shoulder mounts on each side of his stair case
The entire conversation is pointless anyways. We are 1% of the population and we have a liberalizing country/culture that is becoming more urban. They don't think of moose and deer as zoo animals.They think of lions and giraffes as zoo animals and they're going to continue to bristle at this sort of thing until, in the future, under a hyper-liberal administration which will probably be here in 2-6 years, there is a viral photo like this and on a whim, all African (or, *shudder* all foreign-killed big game) animals products will be banned by executive order.
And then, bam. Just like that, it's gone. You'll be able to hunt in Africa, but you will not be able to bring anything home. And that will result in less people going over there which will result in less African conservation which will be a self-driving force.
This is coming. A ton of people (and it's more every day, especially after photos like these, and includes hunters) do not approve of non-meat hunts, where the hunter is doing the hunting without intention of making use of the meat even if he/she makes sure that all of it is made use of. THIS is how they define "trophy hunting." And they don't like it.
And the more high-profile examples like this they see, the closer we get to executive orders to shut it down and possibly the banning of hunting all together.
Americans, in general, are ok with you and I going into the woods and hunting for our common "non-threatened" large animals and eating them. Americans, in general, are not ok with people going to Africa and killing animals that local Africans eat, even if it preserves the species. They don't care, because they don't understand. And all our impassioned "defense" makes no difference. They see it as killing for thrills and bravado and they're not ok with it and every year that goes by, they despise it more and more and that will lead to an eventual ban.
Ike, Lou, and a handful of others, well stated. I think the vast majority agree with you. Even if we didn’t argue against her doing that. Well said positions that lead others to think are what makes us all better.
Common sense says you do not go pose with a giraff. The non hunt city family, who votes and writes letters, does not want their city kids to see a hunter posing with a gun and a dead zoo animal, in their minds. We know better, but common sense dictates that we gain more by playing along, with a freakin giraff
Well, I would like to know where I can find a list of animals that are appropriate to pose with and animals that are NOT! ;-)
wyobullshooter, Ain't the 60's and 70's the truth, about rebellion. Love, peace, Equal Rights (which was one of the best things to come out of that era), communes/push for socialistic ideas, KKK, race riots, drugs, the BIG push to be a Vegetarian and to not kill animals, draft card burning, and let's not forget "Don't trust anyone over 30". Yeah I know there was Vietnam and because of the above, look at how the returning soldiers were treated for a long time (most of them didn't have a choice about going). I actually blame my generation for the way many of the things are today, especially on the view of Hunting. "My" generation started the organized Animal Rights Movement that we deal with today. Which has perpetuated the reason for this discussion with its growth. No generation is perfect, but before opening up ones mouth you better get your history straight about what happened. DANNY
So true Linecutter. I certainly remember “Don’t trust anyone over 30”. After hearing/saying it for years, it really bummed me out when I turned 30 myself. Of course, it didn’t help that my wife had a dozen black roses sent to my work that day! ;-)
EF, I really think that article is your way of saying YOU wish/need to belong. You inner desire coming out, looking for approval. You know that is the second time you said this thread is closed (and counting). Kinda hard stopping a car you started, with no brakes, a stuck throttle, and it goes in a direction you didn't want it to. DANNY
Bake, WapitiBob, and others have nailed it. It just doesn't work out well when you post pictures of certain dead animals. It doesn't have to make sense. Sometimes, self awareness and compromise are in order and we don't really give that much up by not posting such images. Also, derailing this into an EF hate fest is not productive.
No, you WANT people to listen and for them to think you know what you are talking about, so you can be accepted. The above picture shows how you are perceived. Until you realize that, people will continue to see you for what you are projecting, a "Wanabe". You yourself, are the only person who thinks that they want to listen to you and have an inherent perspective that puts you in that position. DANNY
I have been watching this thread. I like to show my friends and family pictures of my hunting trips, squirrels, a deer etc. I seldom show any on outright public internet places. I wouldn't have put the exotic picture up, just me. But all that psychlogical stuff that was posted- man that's too deep for me. But some of the things that were pointed out, like the man who gets ahead being pulled back by the ones who doesn't, well, you do kinda see that here. Being a private type internet forum with sponsers, the operators would want good flow of conversation to increase hits and views of sponser ads. So , just like workplaces, schools, etc. anybody who excels and does better than the group, takes away and upsets the others, and they use the private power rather than debate on intellect. I'm not taking sides, but thats what my family saw on this thread. In a way, the EF fellow won. No one could intelligently challenge his reasoning.
Social media will be the death of everything we hold dear. Be careful who your friends are in posting pictures on any social media. Africa hunting is a hot button ever since Cecil. The truth never gets published. I remember a huge croc being killed and how outraged people were. Of course now one new why it was killed. It had just eaten a 13 year old African girl. Too bad the pictures weren’t shown of what they pulled out of its stomach. The little girls shirt and part of her spine and skull. People have no clue how people in Africa have to survive. A frickin giraffe could literally kick your head off your body. I get so digested with people thinking animals are human. People get pissed off for seeing someone rubbing a dog with there foot. My labs don’t care what your petting them with as long as they get attention. So many people have turned into whiny little babies. Don’t you dare kill anything but killing unborn children any way you want is ok..
I just wrapped up a 16 year political career, and it’s fascinating to look back and see how public discourse changed during such a short period of time. Initially, if someone wanted to weigh in on an issue, they picked up the phone and called. Although you would have the occasional irate caller, the personal connection typically kept the conversation at least civil and productive. Then the rise of email…. and things started to change. The civility began to disappear. Folks felt emboldened to weigh in on topics from the safety of the keyboard. So the volume of communications increased, along with the level of anger. But for the most part, it was still one on one communication between decision maker and constituent. And then 2007ish arrives, and social media takes off. Instant communication that can be shared and seen by many others. And basically, the level of discourse falls into the realm of “you disagree with me, therefore I hope you die.” This is not a problem unique to hunting. Other emotionally driven issues have the same problem. Social media has basically given a forum for people to express their opinion, no matter how vile, vulgar, uneducated, or otherwise, where countless others can instantly see it. The opinions operate just like blood in the water around sharks. People begin to act collectively with a “herd” mentality. When I was a kid, my small hometown newspaper would send out a laminated picture to people whose picture made it to the paper. Underneath, it read “You Made the Paper!” It was a recognition that people like to be noticed. Rightly or wrongly, people still like to be noticed. And social media has provided that forum to virtually anyone on the planet. (Whether it’s a picture from the beach, or a hunting photo, or a live filmed murder.) The interesting part going forward will be how we as a society (and specifically us as hunters) adapt to it.
Nah, ole mysterious EF Hutton had what was in my view a pretty accurate initial assessment that the oversharing wannabe hunters are our own worst enemy in response to the giraffe drama du jour. I missed most of the melodrama that ensued, but it appears he was erased from Bowsite history. Things likely got too personal is my best guess.
"Any bets boomstick and EF share an IP address :) "
Bingo! We have a wiener!
I couldn't tell if he was just down on younger folks, down on technology or social media, down on hunting Africa, down on the world..... who knows. Pretty high on himself though so it couldn't possibly been about self aggrandizement or ego.....certainly not self awareness....
Whatever happened in '84 must have been life altering......
Classic troll...... enjoys thinking he's some kind of puppet master. Not the first forum he's been booted from.... likely not the last. At least TBM had some semblance of a sense of humor....