Ripcord Arrow Rests
What the F.O.C. You Shooting?
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Bou'bound 20-Jul-18
Kurt 20-Jul-18
Jaquomo 20-Jul-18
Bake 20-Jul-18
Dyjack 20-Jul-18
COHOYTHUNTER 20-Jul-18
petemc 20-Jul-18
petemc 20-Jul-18
Dale06 20-Jul-18
drycreek 20-Jul-18
oldgoat 20-Jul-18
JTV 20-Jul-18
Shaft2Long 20-Jul-18
HDE 20-Jul-18
COHOYTHUNTER 20-Jul-18
JTV 20-Jul-18
LKH 20-Jul-18
Ermine 20-Jul-18
Dyjack 20-Jul-18
COHOYTHUNTER 20-Jul-18
butcherboy 20-Jul-18
Treeline 20-Jul-18
WV Mountaineer 20-Jul-18
Dino 20-Jul-18
Ucsdryder 20-Jul-18
Charlie Rehor 20-Jul-18
Matt 20-Jul-18
wyobullshooter 20-Jul-18
HDE 20-Jul-18
oldgoat 21-Jul-18
ELKMAN 21-Jul-18
Lever Action 21-Jul-18
Trial153 21-Jul-18
Pigsticker 21-Jul-18
ElkNut1 21-Jul-18
Kurt 21-Jul-18
Beendare 21-Jul-18
Matt 21-Jul-18
Willieboat 21-Jul-18
JTV 21-Jul-18
Predeter 21-Jul-18
HDE 21-Jul-18
Pyrannah 21-Jul-18
Woods Walker 21-Jul-18
Lever Action 22-Jul-18
Michael 22-Jul-18
Dafish 22-Jul-18
johnw 22-Jul-18
Bake 22-Jul-18
wyobullshooter 22-Jul-18
Woods Walker 22-Jul-18
Matt 23-Jul-18
JTV 23-Jul-18
Lever Action 23-Jul-18
bb 23-Jul-18
LINK 23-Jul-18
wyobullshooter 23-Jul-18
HDE 23-Jul-18
elkstabber 23-Jul-18
APauls 23-Jul-18
Buck Watcher 23-Jul-18
Fuzzy 23-Jul-18
elkmtngear 23-Jul-18
Jethro 23-Jul-18
JTV 23-Jul-18
BOWNUT 23-Jul-18
BOWNUT 23-Jul-18
HDE 23-Jul-18
COHOYTHUNTER 23-Jul-18
South Farm 23-Jul-18
elkmtngear 23-Jul-18
JTV 23-Jul-18
elkmtngear 23-Jul-18
Brotsky 23-Jul-18
Lever Action 23-Jul-18
Woods Walker 23-Jul-18
Beendare 23-Jul-18
BIGERN 23-Jul-18
BIGERN 23-Jul-18
caribou77 23-Jul-18
Woods Walker 23-Jul-18
Fuzzy 24-Jul-18
12yards 24-Jul-18
Franklin 24-Jul-18
carcus 24-Jul-18
Jim B 24-Jul-18
Woods Walker 24-Jul-18
primitve 26-Jul-18
Woods Walker 26-Jul-18
del_binari 26-Jul-18
bb 26-Jul-18
del_binari 26-Jul-18
HDE 26-Jul-18
Woods Walker 26-Jul-18
loprofile 27-Jul-18
WanaB 29-Jul-18
bb 31-Jul-18
Woods Walker 31-Jul-18
From: Bou'bound
20-Jul-18
What is the FOC on your current set up. I am at 15% on my heavy arrow set up (534 grains) . My lighter set up is 11% (429 grains)

From: Kurt
20-Jul-18
15.5% on a 475 gr finished arrow.

From: Jaquomo
20-Jul-18
I shoot whatever FOC it ends up being with a 125 grain head.

From: Bake
20-Jul-18
Don't know. Don't care.

From: Dyjack
20-Jul-18
Probably low enough to make the high foc guys mad. But high enough to go through an elk.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
20-Jul-18
Ditto with Dyjack

From: petemc
20-Jul-18
31.8% with a 568 gr. total weight.

From: petemc
20-Jul-18
I guess I should clarify since this is the "Modern Archery" forum that I'm using a "Modern" Long bow:)

From: Dale06
20-Jul-18
Ok, How do you calculate FOC? I never have paid any attention to it.

From: drycreek
20-Jul-18
Mine will go through a 150 lb. hog if I don't get the off shoulder blade or bone. That's as close as I can figure.

From: oldgoat
20-Jul-18
29% on the arrow I like the most, but I went back to some heavier arrows for this coming elk season and they are only about 20%

From: JTV
20-Jul-18
8.5% on a 385 gr Goldtip Velocity XT 340/303fps/78lb ke/.51 mo ... with Viper Tricks, they stack at 50 yds ... will be very deadly on big deer ...... was at 10.1% until I added lighted Glory Nocks ... 7-15% is recommended FOC ...

From: Shaft2Long
20-Jul-18
12.4%, 500 grain arrow.

From: HDE
20-Jul-18
Do know. Do care.

16%

From: COHOYTHUNTER
20-Jul-18
Just calculated.. 75% 570grn arrow.. its a hum dinger let me tell ya.. 105KE with 90lb limbs! Next season I'm going to use my 57 points for Jurassic Park GMU 145B.C. ! I hear them Velociraptor backstraps are mighty tasty!

From: JTV
20-Jul-18

JTV's Link
Dale... go to link ^^

https://www.goldtip.com/Resources/Calculators/FOC-Calculator.aspx

From: LKH
20-Jul-18
At first I thought it was about a new curse word.

From: Ermine
20-Jul-18
17%

From: Dyjack
20-Jul-18
Cohoy your broadhead must be a midget with a knife.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
20-Jul-18
It's actually a RAGE with the new remote deployment feature.

From: butcherboy
20-Jul-18
17% 450gr total weight

From: Treeline
20-Jul-18
Have quite a few different setups from 425 grains and 15% FOC on the low end to 730 grains and 35% FOC on the upper end.

Have shot thru elk with the light ones and 3-blade broadheads on multiple occasions...

20-Jul-18
On my compound? Who knows and I don't care. I screw a good 125 grain head on it and roll.

My trad bows. I usually use a 200 grain single bevel or a 125 grain chisel tip head. For the splitting maul effect their tip gives you. FOC? I have zero idea and do not care.

From: Dino
20-Jul-18
I am around 15%

From: Ucsdryder
20-Jul-18
I’m rolling a 550 grain arrow at 276fps. Not sure about my foc but I have 175 up front so it should be in the low teens.

20-Jul-18
Shooting 430 grains with my antelope arrow, 465 grains with my Mulie arrow and 515 grains with my elk arrow. Same 100 grain head on all. Similar FOC as Bou

Ain’t retirement great! So much time to prepare:)

Once I get done with those early season Western hunts I’ll get serious with my whities using the 430 grain arrow.

From: Matt
20-Jul-18
It's funny so many guys actually know the answer.

20-Jul-18
"What the F.O.C. You Shooting?"

It's none of your business what the F.O.C. I'm shooting!

From: HDE
20-Jul-18
No more funny than guys drinking Sitka flavored Koolaid...

From: oldgoat
21-Jul-18
It's funny that we know? Archery is what I geek out on, before I got back into it, I knew the ballistic coefficient of all my bullets, didn't make me better at anything, but it was fun to research!

From: ELKMAN
21-Jul-18
16%

From: Lever Action
21-Jul-18
27%

From: Trial153
21-Jul-18
300 Spartans 521 total weight, 205 up front....15% FOC 390 ACC’s 455 total weight! 175 up front 13.5 FOC

From: Pigsticker
21-Jul-18
16%

From: ElkNut1
21-Jul-18
430 grain total weight arrow, VAP V-1 Elite, 96 grain steel insert & 100 grain Exodus Qad standard head, 17% foc, this has blown through every bull at 65# 27.5" draw length.

ElkNut/Paul

From: Kurt
21-Jul-18
Matt, I just calculated mine last week for the first time in 6 or 7 years. Been a lot of fuss about it lately so was curious where they fell. I'll have to go back to my pile of retired killer arrows (where I saved them) from the past 45 years to see what my range of FOC and arrow weight has been. Bet it is quite wide....as I know the weights are.

From: Beendare
21-Jul-18
Not sure...guessing its probably about 12-16% in my compound....probably a little more in my Recurve

From: Matt
21-Jul-18
Kurt, you are a lucky man having managed to anything while not knowing how much front of center you had.

From: Willieboat
21-Jul-18
I really don't know....Easton supplies inserts with the shafts...i glue them in and go kill stuff with them ;)

From: JTV
21-Jul-18
I want to know everything I can about what I hunt with either Bows or firearms ... hell, I can remember guys coming onto the shop who had no idea what their arrow length was, or what arrow they shot, didnt know their draw length or poundage, hell, wasnt even sure of their BH/FP weight ...

From: Predeter
21-Jul-18
11%. 479gr arrow.

From: HDE
21-Jul-18
You know you have a problem with too high of an FOC when a nocked arrow at rest has a bow in it...

From: Pyrannah
21-Jul-18
Think I’m in the 15% range.. pretty low

From: Woods Walker
21-Jul-18
I shoot what the F.O.C I want.

From: Lever Action
22-Jul-18
I find the haters responses to be the most interesting. Imagine that someone who knows nothing and cares nothing about nothing. Imagine such a person, wanting to comment without a wit of knowledge. Reminds me of my kids, when they were obstinate little brats. Thank God they got over that crap, before they got old enough to influence some other skull full of mush.

From: Michael
22-Jul-18
16%

From: Dafish
22-Jul-18
12% 400 gr arrow

From: johnw
22-Jul-18
I'm guessing 7 or 8%...

Shooting 100 gr Iron Will broadhead Arrow length is 26 5/8ths inches 340 spine Easton FMJs 11.3GPI Nockturnal Nocks 20 gr Not sure on insert weight, 3 vanes. Roughly 440-450 grains.

From: Bake
22-Jul-18
Since that was pointed at me Lever Action, I’ll respond.

You’re right, I probably shouldn’t have responded at all. If it had been a poster other than Bou’bound, who I believe posts many things for purposes other than what the question is . . . I responded. Personally, I get a kick out of Bou, and mean him no malice at all. I like to respond tongue in cheek, as I’m sure many of his posts are intended.

As for FOC, I know what it is. I know it’s supposed benefit. And I know there are many who love the tech and numbers side of archery. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Frankly I don’t get real big into that stuff. I can’t remember what my arrow weighs. I’ve never shot my current bow through a chronograph, even though I believe this will be it’s fifth season.

I don’t know my FOC. I DO know that my arrows fly straight and true. I DO know that they pass through most everything I shoot. Of the last 20 or so animals I’ve killed with it, including animals as big as elk and kudu, I’ve only had a non pass through twice (to my recollection). A kudu where I smacked the opposite shoulder dead center (dead kudu), and a lengthwise shot through a wounded lechwe at 40 yards (the arrow was hanging out the bulls hind end after recovery).

I’ve passed through everything else I can think of (ok I forgot a spinal column hit on a zebra, long story).

So I think my setup is efficient, fairly well maximized, and I shoot it well. So I don’t care.

But you’re right, I shouldn’t have responded at all.

22-Jul-18
Great post, Bake. You beat me to it, so I'll just tag team.

As Bake points out, Bou is a master of the tongue in cheek. I seriously doubt if some of the responses got his panties in a wad. Apparently, the same can't be said for Lever.

FWIW, I know the weight of my arrows. I know the speed of my arrows, which also means I know the KE and momentum of my arrows. And yes, I know the FOC of my arrows. The title of this thread is "What the F.O.C. You Shooting?"...a double meaning if I ever saw one! If I gave just FOC of my arrows, without listing all the components of my arrow, as well as arrow length, how the hell does that educate anyone? Easton recommends 10-15% FOC. If I give either of those percentages, or any number in between, which is quite a range BTW, then there will be those extreme FOC guys that will chime in saying my arrow isn't efficient until it gets in the 30% range. Of course, there are plenty of guys that kill tons of animal that shoot less than 10% FOC. Just as there are plenty of guys like Bake that don't know, and could care less, what their FOC is. Yep, they kill a ton of animals too.

From: Woods Walker
22-Jul-18

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo

From: Matt
23-Jul-18
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a person with the handle of Lever Action is trying to school people on concepts related to bowhunting? The handle exudes deeply committed to the bow...

But I digress.

Threads like this make me wonder how many have really read and understood Ashby's work and the theory behind the FOC benefit? More often than not, what I see are people who are doing whatever they can to enhance (but not actually achieve) the criterion for his #3 rule, all the while diminishing conformance with his #1 rule. For most, it is total mental m@sturbation.

From: JTV
23-Jul-18
Yea, Ive read Ashby, and realized he aint all that, esp. when it come to whitetail .. Ashby does not walk on water .... just how far in the dirt beyond the critter does the arrow have to go ?? ... for many to most out there in North America... stay between 7-15% and you'll do just fine with a well tuned setup ..... I was killing deer with archery gear, long before the Ashby stuff was regurgitated... now, I'm talking deer and or most North American animals...

African animals and certain water buffalo are much stouter than what most here will ever chase ... so I can see the need and want for a heavy arrow and good COC heads... but for Elk and deer and the critters most chase here, the 7-15% is just fine ...

From: Lever Action
23-Jul-18
I was not pointing fingers at any one person. The O.P. asked about others FOC builds and did not ask for a discussion on the pro/con of FOC. Some people just cant resist the temptation of an unlit firecracker that is laying near them I guess.

From: bb
23-Jul-18
It only took me 45 years but I finally attained my target FOC of -3 3/8 percent.

From: LINK
23-Jul-18
11%. With a 125 head on a 535 grain total arrow weight.

23-Jul-18
No Matt, you're not.

"The O.P. asked about others FOC builds and did not ask for a discussion on the pro/con of FOC."

Wouldn't you think the OP should be the one to say something if he was so horribly offended by some of the posts? At least the world can rest easier, now that we've been thoroughly tongue-lashed and set straight by the self-anointed king of the tread police. I guess some people can't resist bitchin’ for the sake of bitchin’.

From: HDE
23-Jul-18
"The title of this thread is "What the F.O.C. You Shooting?"...a double meaning if I ever saw one!"

Well, with all the botched grammar on this site, some figured it was just another example.

Isn't the phrase used for tongue in cheek comments "trolling"...?

From: elkstabber
23-Jul-18
For my recurve it is 18% (620 grains) because I wanted a durable arrow that I can stump shoot with and a heavy arrow that shoots quietly. The stiffer spine makes a more durable arrow. Then it takes 200 grains on the front to tune just right so that it shoots clean off of the shelf. I've taken many animals with this combination and it has proven to be effective.

For the compound I was trying to get about 10-14% and ended up choosing between Victory RIP (.204" id) and Easton Axis (.204" id). They are 50 grains different at my arrow length, and I like the Victory because of the greater speed and straightness. After tuning the Victory arrows to my bow and then testing several vane types and configurations the combination that shot fixed blades best at distance was 16% foc (470 grains). Note that I am far from an expert with a compound.

From: APauls
23-Jul-18
I'm with Bake. Never ever bothered to check. I'm in the pass-through category.

From: Buck Watcher
23-Jul-18
FOC matters for me the last 30+ years. 14 - 18% on my current setups.

From: Fuzzy
23-Jul-18
who the F.O.C. is askin?

From: elkmtngear
23-Jul-18
Did the calculation from JTV's link:

KE = 51

Total Arrow Weight= 527 grains

FOC = 8.3%

So, what the Hell does all that actually mean?

From: Jethro
23-Jul-18
LeverAction, I think Bou'bond enjoys the entertainment of your proverbial firecracker going off in the threads he starts. I'd bet he's glad you posted.

From: JTV
23-Jul-18

JTV's Link
ElkMtngear ... "So, what the Hell does all that actually mean?" .... it shows you have enough for any animal in NA and are with in the range of optimum FOC to get good arrow flight ..... but it isnt the KE really to be looked at, it is the Momentum .....

I use this to figure those out .. KE and Mo..... its all part of what I want to know ..... see link .... you do have to know your FPS however.... I want to know what both my setups are shooting... FOC/KE and Momentum .....for me, its all part of knowing my equipment ....

From: BOWNUT
23-Jul-18
17% 460 grain arrow

From: BOWNUT
23-Jul-18

From: HDE
23-Jul-18
"So, what the Hell does all that actually mean?"

Nothing and everything.

KE still means absolutely nothing.

FOC tells you the center of mass of the arrow and how it might perform at impact (shaft deflection).

Weight, well, it is what it is and all other things "penetration wise" is a direct result of weight.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
23-Jul-18
ok.. did a for real calculation.. my draw weight is 73lbs. I shoot GT Kinetic Kaos 300 spine. Total arrow weight is 482. 13% FOC. 85 KE and .603 Momentum. It is a thumper. my set up last year was slightly lighter and I was pass thru on everything. I imagine this arrow will pack a punch and I feel I am much more accurate with this set up and my bow really seems to like this arrow weight. I just added 10 grns to the front last week and my penetration at 30, 50 and 60 yrds on the same target was more, my arrows were sinking deeper

From: South Farm
23-Jul-18
Ooh, how clever. You guys see what he did there or don't any of you F.O.C'ng care?

From: elkmtngear
23-Jul-18

elkmtngear's Link
"but it isnt the KE really to be looked at, it is the Momentum" .....

Ah JTV, I screwed up. Guessed at my arrow speed, and was probably a little off. Using this calculator (see link)...I'm guessing I'm shooting around 240 FPS (2013 Elite Pure, 65 lbs, heavy arrow).

By your calculator, brings the KE up to 67, and Momentum to 0.56.

From: JTV
23-Jul-18
Elkmtngear... way more than enough with a well tuned bow and fixed heads and 'prolly most Mech's for any critter we have here ...

From: elkmtngear
23-Jul-18
Good to know, now all I have to do is put my arrow in the right spot! :^P

From: Brotsky
23-Jul-18
11.03481567% based upon my calculator. If you FOC'ing guys aren't going out to at least the 8th decimal point then you don't REALLY know FOC do you? :-)

From: Lever Action
23-Jul-18
NOW... I like where this is going! :D

From: Woods Walker
23-Jul-18
If you FOC is off and causes the arrow to rise, could it then be considered to be F.O.C.ed up?

From: Beendare
23-Jul-18
The other thing Matt....the only guys that really care are the guys shooting very high FOC....in fact they wear it on their sleeve.

I haven't seen any 30% neck tats yet....but then I haven't been to a trad shoot in a year and a half. /grin

From: BIGERN
23-Jul-18
478/10.7

From: BIGERN
23-Jul-18
478/10.7

From: caribou77
23-Jul-18
15.5%. Broadheads fly like darts

From: Woods Walker
23-Jul-18
You really want them to fly like darts??

From: Fuzzy
24-Jul-18
I'm so F.O.C.ing fed up with this thread.

From: 12yards
24-Jul-18
Gold Tip XT Hunter, 27.75" shaft, 125 grain head, 11.3%.

Beman Camo ICS Hunter 340, 28" shaft, 125 grain head, 10.9%. With 150 grain head - 12.8%.

Beman ICS Hunter 400, 28" shaft, 100 grain head, 10%.

From: Franklin
24-Jul-18
After ready a couple of posts I thought I was watching "Good Will Hunting"....what good is all this nonsense if you can`t sneak up on a glass of water. I guess that`s where the 70 yard shots come in. FOCguttabotit.lol

From: carcus
24-Jul-18
IDK

From: Jim B
24-Jul-18
35% FOCer

From: Woods Walker
24-Jul-18
You FOCer's are really know your arrows!

From: primitve
26-Jul-18
26-27% FOC...540 grain arrows off my 51# longbow. FOC yeah'!

From: Woods Walker
26-Jul-18
;-)

From: del_binari
26-Jul-18
What I want to know is whether the amount of FOC matters as much with longer arrows, or whether it matters more for shorter arrows? The reason I posit that, is that the drag created by the fletch is further from the weight at the front and might have a different stabilization dynamic depending on the distance from the tip.

From: bb
26-Jul-18
What about the drag created by the tip?

From: del_binari
26-Jul-18
;^) That was a tongue in cheek, question. Elk season cant come soon enough....

From: HDE
26-Jul-18
The answer to your question is that it only matters on days that end in "y".

From: Woods Walker
26-Jul-18
Everyone needs a good FOC percentage.

From: loprofile
27-Jul-18
I listened to Ashby interview this morning on Kifaru podcast. Found it quite refreshing - he seems to be genuine and he has definitely walked the walk. He did not say that you had to use particular setup to kill an animal and said that if a system works for you, stick with it.

From: WanaB
29-Jul-18
13% with a 540 grain arrow.

From: bb
31-Jul-18
Del binari...that was a tongue in cheek answer:)

From: Woods Walker
31-Jul-18
Del: You forgot to factor in the Coriolis Force factor.

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