8.5% on a 385 gr Goldtip Velocity XT 340/303fps/78lb ke/.51 mo ... with Viper Tricks, they stack at 50 yds ... will be very deadly on big deer ...... was at 10.1% until I added lighted Glory Nocks ... 7-15% is recommended FOC ...
Just calculated.. 75% 570grn arrow.. its a hum dinger let me tell ya.. 105KE with 90lb limbs! Next season I'm going to use my 57 points for Jurassic Park GMU 145B.C. ! I hear them Velociraptor backstraps are mighty tasty!
Matt, I just calculated mine last week for the first time in 6 or 7 years. Been a lot of fuss about it lately so was curious where they fell. I'll have to go back to my pile of retired killer arrows (where I saved them) from the past 45 years to see what my range of FOC and arrow weight has been. Bet it is quite wide....as I know the weights are.
I want to know everything I can about what I hunt with either Bows or firearms ... hell, I can remember guys coming onto the shop who had no idea what their arrow length was, or what arrow they shot, didnt know their draw length or poundage, hell, wasnt even sure of their BH/FP weight ...
I find the haters responses to be the most interesting. Imagine that someone who knows nothing and cares nothing about nothing. Imagine such a person, wanting to comment without a wit of knowledge. Reminds me of my kids, when they were obstinate little brats. Thank God they got over that crap, before they got old enough to influence some other skull full of mush.
Since that was pointed at me Lever Action, I’ll respond.
You’re right, I probably shouldn’t have responded at all. If it had been a poster other than Bou’bound, who I believe posts many things for purposes other than what the question is . . . I responded. Personally, I get a kick out of Bou, and mean him no malice at all. I like to respond tongue in cheek, as I’m sure many of his posts are intended.
As for FOC, I know what it is. I know it’s supposed benefit. And I know there are many who love the tech and numbers side of archery. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
Frankly I don’t get real big into that stuff. I can’t remember what my arrow weighs. I’ve never shot my current bow through a chronograph, even though I believe this will be it’s fifth season.
I don’t know my FOC. I DO know that my arrows fly straight and true. I DO know that they pass through most everything I shoot. Of the last 20 or so animals I’ve killed with it, including animals as big as elk and kudu, I’ve only had a non pass through twice (to my recollection). A kudu where I smacked the opposite shoulder dead center (dead kudu), and a lengthwise shot through a wounded lechwe at 40 yards (the arrow was hanging out the bulls hind end after recovery).
I’ve passed through everything else I can think of (ok I forgot a spinal column hit on a zebra, long story).
So I think my setup is efficient, fairly well maximized, and I shoot it well. So I don’t care.
But you’re right, I shouldn’t have responded at all.
Great post, Bake. You beat me to it, so I'll just tag team.
As Bake points out, Bou is a master of the tongue in cheek. I seriously doubt if some of the responses got his panties in a wad. Apparently, the same can't be said for Lever.
FWIW, I know the weight of my arrows. I know the speed of my arrows, which also means I know the KE and momentum of my arrows. And yes, I know the FOC of my arrows. The title of this thread is "What the F.O.C. You Shooting?"...a double meaning if I ever saw one! If I gave just FOC of my arrows, without listing all the components of my arrow, as well as arrow length, how the hell does that educate anyone? Easton recommends 10-15% FOC. If I give either of those percentages, or any number in between, which is quite a range BTW, then there will be those extreme FOC guys that will chime in saying my arrow isn't efficient until it gets in the 30% range. Of course, there are plenty of guys that kill tons of animal that shoot less than 10% FOC. Just as there are plenty of guys like Bake that don't know, and could care less, what their FOC is. Yep, they kill a ton of animals too.
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a person with the handle of Lever Action is trying to school people on concepts related to bowhunting? The handle exudes deeply committed to the bow...
But I digress.
Threads like this make me wonder how many have really read and understood Ashby's work and the theory behind the FOC benefit? More often than not, what I see are people who are doing whatever they can to enhance (but not actually achieve) the criterion for his #3 rule, all the while diminishing conformance with his #1 rule. For most, it is total mental m@sturbation.
Yea, Ive read Ashby, and realized he aint all that, esp. when it come to whitetail .. Ashby does not walk on water .... just how far in the dirt beyond the critter does the arrow have to go ?? ... for many to most out there in North America... stay between 7-15% and you'll do just fine with a well tuned setup ..... I was killing deer with archery gear, long before the Ashby stuff was regurgitated... now, I'm talking deer and or most North American animals...
African animals and certain water buffalo are much stouter than what most here will ever chase ... so I can see the need and want for a heavy arrow and good COC heads... but for Elk and deer and the critters most chase here, the 7-15% is just fine ...
I was not pointing fingers at any one person. The O.P. asked about others FOC builds and did not ask for a discussion on the pro/con of FOC. Some people just cant resist the temptation of an unlit firecracker that is laying near them I guess.
"The O.P. asked about others FOC builds and did not ask for a discussion on the pro/con of FOC."
Wouldn't you think the OP should be the one to say something if he was so horribly offended by some of the posts? At least the world can rest easier, now that we've been thoroughly tongue-lashed and set straight by the self-anointed king of the tread police. I guess some people can't resist bitchin’ for the sake of bitchin’.
For my recurve it is 18% (620 grains) because I wanted a durable arrow that I can stump shoot with and a heavy arrow that shoots quietly. The stiffer spine makes a more durable arrow. Then it takes 200 grains on the front to tune just right so that it shoots clean off of the shelf. I've taken many animals with this combination and it has proven to be effective.
For the compound I was trying to get about 10-14% and ended up choosing between Victory RIP (.204" id) and Easton Axis (.204" id). They are 50 grains different at my arrow length, and I like the Victory because of the greater speed and straightness. After tuning the Victory arrows to my bow and then testing several vane types and configurations the combination that shot fixed blades best at distance was 16% foc (470 grains). Note that I am far from an expert with a compound.
ElkMtngear ... "So, what the Hell does all that actually mean?" .... it shows you have enough for any animal in NA and are with in the range of optimum FOC to get good arrow flight ..... but it isnt the KE really to be looked at, it is the Momentum .....
I use this to figure those out .. KE and Mo..... its all part of what I want to know ..... see link .... you do have to know your FPS however.... I want to know what both my setups are shooting... FOC/KE and Momentum .....for me, its all part of knowing my equipment ....
ok.. did a for real calculation.. my draw weight is 73lbs. I shoot GT Kinetic Kaos 300 spine. Total arrow weight is 482. 13% FOC. 85 KE and .603 Momentum. It is a thumper. my set up last year was slightly lighter and I was pass thru on everything. I imagine this arrow will pack a punch and I feel I am much more accurate with this set up and my bow really seems to like this arrow weight. I just added 10 grns to the front last week and my penetration at 30, 50 and 60 yrds on the same target was more, my arrows were sinking deeper
After ready a couple of posts I thought I was watching "Good Will Hunting"....what good is all this nonsense if you can`t sneak up on a glass of water. I guess that`s where the 70 yard shots come in. FOCguttabotit.lol
What I want to know is whether the amount of FOC matters as much with longer arrows, or whether it matters more for shorter arrows? The reason I posit that, is that the drag created by the fletch is further from the weight at the front and might have a different stabilization dynamic depending on the distance from the tip.
I listened to Ashby interview this morning on Kifaru podcast. Found it quite refreshing - he seems to be genuine and he has definitely walked the walk. He did not say that you had to use particular setup to kill an animal and said that if a system works for you, stick with it.