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Non pass thrus on elk
If you get a non pass thru on an elk, do you think the Broadhead does more damage as the elk runs or does it stay in place and not cause more hemorrhaging?
Brutal... but it all depends on where what it hits. Razor blades moving around with shaft defiantly does damage..
It stands to reason that the arrow/broadhead has to be doing additional damage as it moves. No way it couldn't.
From personal experience, it depends on where it stops. First Bull I ever shot was with an 1-1/2" 4 blade Rocky Mt head. He went about 50 yards and piled up. There wasn't a piece of lung bigger than a golf ball inside that guy. On others, it's stopped against the offside scapula and most if not all of the damage has been done. Worst blood I ever had (zero) was from a passthru of both lungs. Personally, I don't worry about a passthru, killing a whole lot more without it.
Yes or no. Had friend hit one in the hip and it sliced all sorts of stuff up between the shot and where she expired. I hit a bear in the vertebrae (lodged), killed him 3 days later and he looked totally normal. Didn't even think about it being the same bear until we rolled him over and found the healing wound.
Given the choice, I'll take an exit hole.
I dunno guys. I’ve taken an arrow w a bh and stuck it in a gut pile and tried to move it around. Not much happened.
Have had some really spectacular blood trails and dead elk with big 'ol Snuffers that only made it in to the off-side shoulder, then slipped back and sliced and diced as the bull ran off. Several not-so-good hits that didn't pass thru and resulted in a dead elk. Have had those same arrow setups blow thru and result in elk that were just as dead. Hard to say what's best...
All depends on what you hit. A shot through the boiler that stops the in the offside shoulder kills them every time with or without a blood trail. That's the shot I always hope to make.
But we"ve found some after bad shots by following blood wipes made by a broken shaft hanging out. Likely wouldn't have found them otherwise.
If it lodges in the offside "shoulder" much damage will occur and chances are, you made a great shot. A broadhead that penetrates the scapula and doesn't pass thru, is a crapshoot and you may not find him.
The first bull I killed had a broadhead stuck in his neck and healed over. He showed no ileffect whatsoever. Until my arrow deflated his lungs.
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Even at low poundage my goal is to have an exit hole.
The question might be stated another way, “does a BH inside a running elk cause more damage than the 2,4,6,8,10” more of penetration would have caused on a pass through. I’ve only killed four with archery gear and all were pass through. None made it 100 yards after the shot. I’ll take the pass through every time.
Cnelk , I have more or less came to the same conclusion. Penetration is key! I hate seeing an animal shot with an entire arrow sticking out the side it entered and someone saying " I smoked him" hahaha
No really, Iron Will.
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So you're saying the IW will cause hemorrhaging just by it moving around in chest cavity and other broadheads wont?
When I first started bowhunting, I went to a seminar where one of the fellows talking was Marv Clyncke, a man who has killed a ton of game animals. Marv's comment on this topic: "anything a broadhead does after it hits the lungs is good.
Incomplete penetration especially behind a moving scapula may cause internal damage but I've wondered if it becomes like a riding crop and the moving shaft with fletching cause the animal to run more than on a pass thru. I've seen deer and elk almost stand motionless, maybe take a step or two, after a pass thru then drop dead but never with incomplete penetration.
My vote is for a pass thru with two holes resulting in more opportunity for leaking red stuff.
don't forget that lung tissue is different than any other internal tissue. Lung tissue is like a foam material and and you could literally stick an arrow shaft in them and pull it right through sideways. you can't do this with liver or gut material very easily. so, yes, it is possible that an arrow shaft staying inside the chest cavity will cause much greater damage than a passthrough will. The question though is does it matter? I don't think it would except maybe on marginal single lung hits. liver and gut shots it wouldn't make much difference unless that animal is really smashing into trees and such that would really whip that arrow around.
My thoughts are that once you collapse the lungs that animal is dead whether damage continues or not. I would rather have two holes dropping blood to track that dead animal than one.
Ive seen a couple of deer and pigs that the insides were just obliterated from the arrow flopping as they ran. They were just as dead as the ones with a pass thru though.
In a perfect world. Id prefer a pass thru on every animal.
A "floppy arrow" on a non pass through is a good thing...a rigid arrow halfway in, is no bueno!
No black or white answer. With that said it doesn't bother me when the head stays in the animal, it generally is slicing & dicing!
I prefer a pass thru. Best case - a shot with a bottom of the lungs low entrance (uphill shot) or exit (downhill shot).
A "collapsed" lung is a long ways from a dead elk ... they can die from that, but they sure don't have to. Hemorrhage is the answer. Cutting with blades requires two things: Vertical Pressure and Horizontal Pressure, i.e. a slicing motion. With only one of those, the efficacy of cutting goes way down. Try it next time you're cutting something in the kitchen. Adding a little horizontal motion to the vertical "cut" will greatly increase the cutting efficiency.
I had a whitetail buck jump about 15 yards after the shot then reach back with his mouth and pull 1/2 the arrow out of his chest. Then bound off down the hill. He was a bad ass.
A "collapsed" lung is a long ways from a dead elk ... they can die from that, but they sure don't have to. Hemorrhage is the answer.
Agreed, I should have chosen a better phrasing.
Like others have said depends on where the broadhead ends up. Stuck in the offside shoulder or in somewhere firm no extra damage. If the broadhead is resting in the vitals and the arrows being jarred around it has to be doing some extra damage.
"I've taken a arrow w a bh and stuck it in a gutpile and tried to move it around." I'm not certain that's the most scientific test in the world.
^^^ I’ve yet to find an elk to stand there and let me do some beta testing
If that head is in the animal and they run its inflicting more damage period. I would not want to rely on that to be the determining factor but more is better in terms of hemorrhage and death as a result IMO. I would say two is better than one as is in a pass through in terms of holes and blood trails but that is not what Cnelk asked. I made a bad shot on a doe with a trad bow once during a late season hunt. It was pathetic really. She was the last in a string of does and an old long nose @%^$% we had been trying to get rid of for a couple of years. She caught me on the draw and some how I hit her right in the rear ham dead center and she was broad side. I was shooting a long cut narrow head. It was evening and almost dark so I backed out and came back at first light. The first 100 yards the trail was pretty iffy. Then she crossed through some really tight brush. coming out the other side it was like a crime scene and she didn't make it another 25 yards. When I inspected things it was clear the broadhead kept working while she ran and cut the opp side femoral artery.
Just about all the clean pass thru’s I’ve had the bulls stand there or take one jump and look around without knowing wtf just happened. Then they fall over....just about all the non pass thru’s when I hit opposite shoulder or rib they run like they’re on fire. Still die pretty quick but tracking involved. I like the zip thru and watch em drop
I think in general any animal that has an arrow flopping around in it's side will cover more distance and leave less blood on the ground. That being said I shoot a Rage 2 blade so my arrows generally exit but rarely pass through, but I get amazing blood trails due to my choice of broad head...
A barbed head will keep working its way forward - which is why they’re illegal in many states.
Sharpened trailing edges certainly seem like they ought to do a second round of damage as the arrow is pulled back out, whether by the animal or on account of dragging against the brush or what-have-you. But I’ve never been convinced that if you hit the wrong stuff, cutting twice as much of it is somehow better.
In any event, I’d rather have 2 holes than one.
And as to whether the arrow does any more damage on the run.... it probably really matters only if the head did not penetrate to the far wall of the chest cavity in the first place, which basically should just never be an issue anyway, especially with a compound.
So, yeah... a clean pass-through would be my first choice.