Black Gold Sights
Spine question
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Lee 09-Aug-18
x-man 09-Aug-18
Buglmin 09-Aug-18
Brotsky 09-Aug-18
Lee 09-Aug-18
wyobullshooter 09-Aug-18
PapaSmurf 09-Aug-18
JTV 09-Aug-18
JTreeman 09-Aug-18
Lee 09-Aug-18
x-man 10-Aug-18
Lee 10-Aug-18
Jpayne 12-Aug-18
Ucsdryder 12-Aug-18
Shawn 13-Aug-18
carcus 13-Aug-18
x-man 13-Aug-18
Shawn 13-Aug-18
TD 14-Aug-18
Shawn 14-Aug-18
JTV 14-Aug-18
x-man 14-Aug-18
Shawn 14-Aug-18
Lee 14-Aug-18
Buglmin 15-Aug-18
Will 15-Aug-18
RJ Hunt 15-Aug-18
TD 16-Aug-18
Lee 16-Aug-18
From: Lee
09-Aug-18
All - been messing with the OT2 archery software looking for a really good arrow for my bow and every time I find a really good looking shaft I can’t find it in production anywhere. It keeps telling me I need between a 340 and 400 shaft and the odd spines are proving tough to find - for example the Easton 4 mm FMJ in 390-16 is one that is recommended but can’t find them for sale anywhere. Any idea in where to get these off the wall sizes? I have the box checked to not show anything that is out of production but that may be the problem.

Thanks,

Lee

From: x-man
09-Aug-18
Always go stiff. Use the 340's and stop overthinking it.

From: Buglmin
09-Aug-18
Spend some time bare shaft tuning. Tune the arrow to the bow, not the bow to the arrow. Tuned right, all broadheads that match the tip weight of the bare shaft will be perfect. Telling someone to use the stiff spine and not worry about it is not how you tune.

From: Brotsky
09-Aug-18
+1 for x-man, he knows what he's talking about. A modern compound with a mechanical release makes it almost impossible to be overspined.

From: Lee
09-Aug-18
Should have mentioned setup - Elite E35 at 27.5” draw, 26.25” arrows, 150 grain VPA 3 blade. Shows 400s on the light side of good (and it is) and it shows 340s almost off the chart stiff. Just hate to buy something that isn’t correct as they are expensive if they don’t get used!

Thanks for the responses guys

09-Aug-18
Lee, you don’t mention your draw weight, which would be helpful. I shoot a BowTech BTX-28 and an Elite Impulse 31, both at 64#, and both 26” DL. My arrows are Axis 340’s cut to 26 1/4” as well. I can use either a normal insert with 125gr tips, or 50g brass inserts with 100gr tips. Both shoot equally well. I’m confident the 340’s will work just fine for you

From: PapaSmurf
09-Aug-18
Here’s what I do Lee. If you have an idea what is close, call Lancaster and get a couple of arrows that are 340 and a couple of 400. Get the 2 340’s 1” difference in length. So maybe 27” and 28”. Do the same with the 400’s.

Shoot them bareshaft, and you’ll know where to go from there

From: JTV
09-Aug-18
go with the 340's and be done with it... guys over think this and it gets them headaches ... 340's and be done with it... thank me later ..

From: JTreeman
09-Aug-18
I’m certainly no x-man, but buy the 340’s and be done, why do people make it so hard? So if you buy some obscure shafts that “might” almost perfect, what are you going to do when you need more? Don’t see the point. Go stiff especially with the heavy head up front and you will be good.

—jim

From: Lee
09-Aug-18
Thanks guys - it is 60 lbs btw. I will go with the 340s

From: x-man
10-Aug-18
If it eases your mind any... my 14 year old daughter shoots 340's at 27" with 4-blade Stingers up front. She shoots 40# at 25" DL and both field points & Stingers hit same point of impact at all yardages.

Everyone in my family shoots the same 340's at 27". All five of us can shoot same POI with fixed blade heads and FP's. Learn proper form, learn to tune your bow and your archery life will be much more fun.

From: Lee
10-Aug-18
Sounds good!

From: Jpayne
12-Aug-18
I just went through the same thing. I went stiffer and am so happy I did. Jeff

From: Ucsdryder
12-Aug-18
Lee, you could lengthen your arrows a touch or add a brass insert and you’ll be right in the green with spine.

From: Shawn
13-Aug-18
Lol, these threads kill me! If spine was not an issue manufacturers would only make a coupke spines. I shoot 27.5" draw at 67#s and shoot a 26.5 to 27.5" .400 spine with 175 grain heads!! Anyone that tell me that is weak has no clue what they are talking about. Original poster, shoot the .400s unless you are shooting over 70 pounds! Shawn

From: carcus
13-Aug-18
I found 340 fmjs too stiff for my 60 pound bow unfortunately, so I had to buy 400s, my draw is 28" and I shoot 100gr

From: x-man
13-Aug-18
Shawn,

As long as they make trad bows, and fingers shooters, there will be a need for multiple spine ratings.

Just because you have enough hand-torque to counter your weak spine, doesn't mean everyone is going to get that lucky.

From: Shawn
13-Aug-18
Nope, not just me. I shoo with a guy and happen to be friends with him as well who won the worlds and funny thing is he agrees with me. This guy can tune a bow and arrow combo better than most out there so i think I will stick with what he says. The spine on my .400's cut that short is not even remotely weak. Actually maybe ever so slightly stiff. Keep believing what ya want, I know!! Shawn

From: TD
14-Aug-18
The ONLY time I hear ANYONE advocate a 400 spine for a 175 head out of a near 70lb compound is here. That it "works" for someone if a far cry from it being the BEST solution. If you only shoot to 20 or 30 yards if may be good enough, who knows. 50-60-80...... good luck. Why anyone would even TRY to make it work is beyond me.

It's a trad shooter mentality that can't quite get wrapped around the fact a compound bow is tuned with allen wrenches, presses and other tools. Folks get their bow back from the shop and do not want to touch anything, assuming it came back "tuned". So when having issues and someone tells them they can fix it with arrow spine or some extreme FOC like they would with a trad bow they are all ears. They don't have to take a wrench to the bow.

Spine with a compound means you have to have enough for it not to be the cause of the problem, which weak spine VERY often is. You are trying to eliminate as much flex as possible, not induce it. You are tuning to launch the arrow as straight as possible, that's the whole idea with fall away rests, releases, centershot, yokes, etc. The less flex the better. If you are having to induce flex to get it to shoot better then something is off somewhere, somehow. Like x-man said, it is not a trad bow, you are not (normally) shooting it with fingers.

x-man has been a bow technician for a long time. He knows his stuff inside and out. I know several others who are good techs as well who would give the same advice. Personally, I'd go with the people who work with compound bows on a daily basis and take trad advice on tuning a compound with a grain of salt......

From: Shawn
14-Aug-18
Nope bareshafts way out there and groups out to 100 yards just fine. Does anyone realize how stiff a .400 spine cut to 26.5"s becomes? Manufacturers rate a spine supported at 28"s with the weight applied at 14" center. A 340 even left 32"s long will shoot fine out of 70#s, ya know why? Cause they do not want to be sued by some yahoo, so the arrow shafts are plenty stiff. A .400 spine cut to 26.5 inches supported at each end and spine using 13.25" center is pushing 100#s is spine. keep thinking what ya want again I know! Shawn

From: JTV
14-Aug-18
well, there ya go... they are overly stiff cause the mfg dosnt want to be sued, so shoot the 400's,.. now we all know .... smh ... I'd rather be a tad stiff with my hunting arrows, esp. if I was border line ... 30" draw/28" 385 gr GT Velocity XT 340's/62 lbs out of an 335 IBO rated bow and they fly wonderfully and have same POI with Slicks and FP's ..btw, I get 303 fps right now 297fps with the Hunter 340 XT's (405 grs) ...

From: x-man
14-Aug-18

x-man's embedded Photo
x-man's embedded Photo

From: Shawn
14-Aug-18
Yup, tough to be a genius just like Gump and for those who don't know, he was just that, a genius, like Rain Man and many others!! LMAO!! Shawn,

From: Lee
14-Aug-18
Didn't realize this post had generated more interest! Reason I started looking is I can only get a half dozen or less shafts out of a dozen .400 spine shafts to fly well. That spine is just too borderline for my bow and broadhead combo. I'm about to order 4 or 5 different shafts to see which ones I like best before pulling the trigger on a dozen. I did not realize you could buy arrows by the single - thanks Papasmurf!

Lee

From: Buglmin
15-Aug-18
340 spine from a 60# bow... Wow, talk about over spined. Soon they'll be suggesting to move your arrow rest and sight to match impact and to use mechanical heads. Stick bow guys know how to bare shaft tune. More then one way to tune a stick bow. Unlike guys shooting modern bows, stick bow shooters take time to tune arrows, not detune a bow. Starting to sound like the advice given on Facebook.

From: Will
15-Aug-18
Lee, Do the 340's as everyone said. Worst case, see if you can buy 1 and try it to ease your mind.

From: RJ Hunt
15-Aug-18
TD and X-man nailed it. I shoot a bit myself. Go stiff and be done with it.

From: TD
16-Aug-18
"move your arrow rest and sight to match impact"

how do you do that???

Broadhead tuning in general you move your rest to bring the FBBH and FP groups together. (not even going to touch on yoke tuning here... that would be witchcraft....) If issues with that there is something wrong. It can be the set up, timing, tuning..... it can be fletch contact, form.... or too weak of spine. When all is done and the groups hit together THEN you move your sight and sight in. Then pretty much anything in the same weight range you screw on the end will hit very close to the same spot. All of it. At that point you go hunting.....

It's pretty simple engineering stuff until you start chanting mantras over your arrows.......

From: Lee
16-Aug-18

Lee's embedded Photo
Lee's embedded Photo
Just ordered one of each of the ones I highlighted in yellow and will be messing with them soon. 150 gr. VPA on the front.

Lee

  • Sitka Gear