Mathews Inc.
% of NM landowner tags to residents?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Darrell 22-Aug-18
WapitiBob 22-Aug-18
LINK 22-Aug-18
Trial153 22-Aug-18
LINK 22-Aug-18
Darrell 22-Aug-18
LINK 22-Aug-18
Outdoorsdude 22-Aug-18
bow-hnt 22-Aug-18
Dyjack 22-Aug-18
Barrera 22-Aug-18
splitlimb13 22-Aug-18
Barrera 22-Aug-18
smarba 22-Aug-18
smarba 22-Aug-18
swampokie 22-Aug-18
trophyhill 22-Aug-18
Red Sparky 23-Aug-18
Darrell 23-Aug-18
Red Sparky 24-Aug-18
From: Darrell
22-Aug-18
NM Wildlife Federation has submitted a recommendation to require NM landowners to sell their 4th ES or MB elk tag to a NM resident. I find that almost humorous. They pitch it as "up to 25%" but really the only impact would be on small properties that get at least 4 tags. If a ranch gets 100 MB tags they only have to assign one to a resident and if you get 3 you can sell them all to NRs.

Here is their wording on their website:

"A property within COER area that gets three or fewer ES and/or MB authorization could issue them all to non-residents if desired. Beginning with receipt of the 4th authorization, it would be required to provide at least one to a New Mexico resident of the property owner’s choosing. This would apply to all authorizations allowing for taking of bull elk, both ES and MB, separately or in aggregate, provided to each such property owner.

This requirement would result in a slight, but still significant, increase of total private RO bull hunting licenses going to New Mexico residents compared to present, based on state-wide totals tallied from 2016-17 NMDGF data. NMWF estimates this would increase the resident percentage of total bull licenses on RO properties from about 14% of MB and 18% of ES licenses now to about 22% each."

Sounds like some wishful estimates to me. I also think it has a snowball's chance of happening though it does bring up some interesting thoughts for me. NM went gangbusters into cutting down the NR % for drawable a number of years ago, but this is the first I have heard of trying to get any of the landowner tags specifically reserved for residents. I find it interesting that they understand the need for private individuals to get the most for their commodity but that the state should take a higher % of $548 or $773 tags and move them to $91 tags for their residents.

I also find it interesting that considering NM residents already have a $458 advantage in buying landowner tags (since a NR still has to pay the $548 to the state for the actual tag while a resident only pays $91) they (NMWF and their followers) now want the state to intervene and force landowners to create an artificial market for "resident landowner tags." Unfortunately, we know where that would go. Landowners would then complain that their tags are not worth as much anymore and therefore they need more tags to compensate for the damage the elk are doing to their fences, alfalfa, etc. NMG&F gives in and gives more tags and takes them away from the tags available to the public draw.

I'm curious what others thoughts on this are, especially other NRs like myself who can't afford landowner tags. (BTW, I grew up in NM and hunted it as a resident from high school until I was 33 but now have to hit the lottery to draw my 3rd choice unit which is only better than a CO hunt for me because I know it well).

From: WapitiBob
22-Aug-18
I have no use for NMWF, and their attempt to force a LO to sell to what may be a non existent resident is probably not going to get very far.

From: LINK
22-Aug-18
I thought most Land owners sold them to residents to begin with. Outfitters are residents.

From: Trial153
22-Aug-18
I dont even want to touch this....

From: LINK
22-Aug-18
Also the tag the landowner sells to a resident would be a cow tag. I would imagine the residents that want to buy a landowner cow tag are all ready doing so.

From: Darrell
22-Aug-18
Link,

No, selling them to a resident outfitter doesn't qualify. The tag must be assigned to a resident. Resident outfitters sell the authorizations to whoever pays them the most regardless of R or NR status.

As for your second post, that is what they are wanting to do is to force a lower cost for residents for MB or ES tags. I.e. if you limit the pool of customers to NM residents then the demand in theory will be lower thus driving down prices for residents while at the same time the result will increase demand for the remaining tags which will then cause prices to rise even more for NRs.

It also plays into their pandering that NRs get too many of "their" tags which plays well to residents who vote for the representatives who make the laws like the one limiting NR unguided tags to 6%.

From: LINK
22-Aug-18
Thanks Darrell. I cant imagine landowners liking being told what to sell a resident tag for unless they are give extra tags to compensate. I’m still waiting for Oklahoma to compensate me for their deer the graze my property...... most ridiculous thing I’ve heard.

From: Outdoorsdude
22-Aug-18
NMWF..... enough said right there!

From: bow-hnt
22-Aug-18
It will never fly, these landowners make a lot more money selling these tags than what they make off alfalfa, or damage to their fences. I do not begrudge them for making money from tags. However , I might be wrong, and if I am I apologize, But landowner tags should be for their private land only, not unit wide.

From: Dyjack
22-Aug-18
Bow-hnt I agree. And if they graze livestock on their land the tag numbers should be lowered one for every ten head or something along those lines. It's self inflicted damage to their habitat and shouldn't be made up for by blaming elk.

From: Barrera
22-Aug-18
25% of elk government vouchers won't be required to go to residents. Gnf won't impose that on landowners. I agree 100% that the NR pool is set to low and think it should be 10% NR and 6% outfitters. Reason is Private ranches account for about estimated 48% of all tags to begin with that almost all mb and es tags go to outfitters. So us public land draw hunters get to apply for estimated 52% of all the tags then we get our 84% or 6% NR of those. At the gnf meeting they said average ranch tags that never get converted into lic is 30%. We all know it's the cow tags they're not converting. IMO the biggest issue is the UW unit wide ranch tags killing our public hunt quality. If a ranch is adequate to recieve elk tags for free then they should be required to hunt on thier ranch not the option to hunt the entire unit.

From: splitlimb13
22-Aug-18
I agree Adam! As I stated at the meeting there needs to be a set minimum acreage to even qualify for e-plus. The SCR is a load of shit imo ! There is one uw tag in 16b this year,the ranch who got the bull tag is forty ACRES!!! The tag was for sale for 15,000 dollars. This unit is almost all wilderness with some of the best habitat in the state and somehow that forty acres is providing enough habitat to justify a bull tag? Yeah right!

From: Barrera
22-Aug-18
Ya it's not entirely about habitat enhancements that ranches provide.

From: smarba
22-Aug-18
It's a vicious cycle. In many cases the LO plants their property with alfalfa and develops water. Then they graze their cattle on surrounding public, denude the landscape and trash the waterholes. Then they complain that elk are grazing on their private and need more elk tag$...

On the flip side there are properties on which cows & calves hit the alfalfa in the spring but by hunting season the elk are far away so a RO tag for that property is worthless, despite the landowner actually contributing and feeding elk during a vital part of the year.

There's no easy answer, but the abuse of the system is out of control IMO.

And I agree with Darrell, we/NM screwed the NR DIY guys and catered to the outfitters and that isn't right.

Our problem is all of us have complained about the E-Plus for years but nobody has come up with a logical solution, myself included.

From: smarba
22-Aug-18
Totally agree with you Rocky D

From: swampokie
22-Aug-18
Totally agree with smarba

From: trophyhill
22-Aug-18
And to think not long ago, 22% of the tags went to NR and outfitters.

From: Red Sparky
23-Aug-18
Not a landowner but I see so many loop holes in this. I have numerous friends and relatives that don't hunt. LO authorizations can be resold so " it would be required to provide at least one to a New Mexico resident of the property owner’s choosing." If I were a LO I could sell friends and relatives authorizations for $1 and they could resell them for me for full price to NR's. I sold them to residents and what happens after that is beyond my control. I could also set aside 25% of the tags for residents and charge them full price. That means I could sell 75 NR tags and 25 R tags go unsold. I complied with the every fourth tag to residents.

Here is my suggestion that I put in during the public comment. Put all elk tags in the public draw. Have a hunt code for private land only. Once you are drawn for private land you have to negotiate with landowners to pay an access fee to their ranch or already be contracted with an outfitter for access to private land. That way the antler less tags will get utilized, no more UW tags. Any tags not allocated for private land in the draw will go to public hunters. The downside is more hunting pressure on public land. It would be like the private land deer licenses.

From: Darrell
23-Aug-18
Sparky,

NMWF's proposal isn't for 25% of the tags, just that tag #4 must be assigned to a NM resident. That is part of what is humorous in this. They are claiming it will increase resident use of LO tags but in reality, even if it got implemented which would be a miracle, might only bump the % a point or two at the most.

From: Red Sparky
24-Aug-18
The way I read it was starting with tag number 4, so every fourth tag would be a 25% to residents. Sorry as a resident I don't buy LO tags and I don't think many others do either. I don't see any reason to only have 3 NR tags sold because the fourth has to go to a resident. Any resident that wants to buy one can pony up the money now and buy one. Thinking this is going to drop the price for resident LO tags, or increase resident sales, is a pipe dream.

If it were up to me all animals would be herded off private land with fencing to keep them off. That will never happen due to the cost and the LO would fight it tooth and nail. They have used too much of the State land, BLM, and USFS for their personal use for so long they think they own it. Especially when they can have it landlocked with their private land. Corner hopping needs to be made legal.

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