Public FS Road Closed By Landowner?
Contributors to this thread:Elk
From: Elk Assassin
02-Sep-18
Fellas- Had a question and thought there isn't a more knowledgeable group of folks on the web, so here goes. There is a place in the Gunnison Basin I used to bowhunt elk. There is a FS road that goes much of the way up toward timberline. A few years ago a landowner that owns a tract of land about halfway up the gulch put a gate and a no trespassing sign up along the road (which has been open for decades). The landowner owns a swath about 130 yards long, which the road goes through and continues for about 300 yards after leaving the private property. At the end of the road, after exiting the private property, is a FS sign stating "end of route." I asked both the game warden and the FS law enforcement officer "how is it that the landowner has the right to close down this road?" Neither had any answer whatsoever for me. So my question is, do you know how a landowner has the right to close down a road clearly going completely through his property, which accesses NF ground beyond the private? I'm really confused as to when a landowner can close a road and when they can't. Thanks for any help you can give me.
From: Worthless
02-Sep-18
I'd call Backcountry Hunters and Anglers and ask for their help figuring out who to talk to. They would probably have resources for you, as access is one of their big issues.
From: WB
02-Sep-18
Sounds like landlocked public land now. Welcome to the new world of hunting.
From: COHOYTHUNTER
02-Sep-18
There is a similar road in a place I hunt. However, the road where I hunt is open to public but landowner has signs every 50 yards... I think it all depends on how the road is designated, ie. Is it an old logging road or is it owned by the county, etc..
From: Elk Assassin
02-Sep-18
From: Vids
02-Sep-18
Contact the local USFS office and ask more people about it. I've been told by USFS that roads through private can provide access if the USFS has a lease agreement with the landowner. Some roads do, some don't. Don't know if that's accurate or not though. It seems every time I talk to folks at a USFS office I hear something different.
You could also check with the county as to who owns that road, if there is right of way through that property he doesn't have the right to put up a gate.
From: Old School
02-Sep-18
Had this issue last year in Idaho - I called the game warden and he told me it was a “no go”. Bummer, but it is what it is.
-Mitch
From: WV Mountaineer
02-Sep-18
Elk Assassin, if you find out he doesn't have a right of way across the FS, let me know. I'll be the first to donate $50 on a gate fund if the FS agree's to put one up blocking his sorry butt from his gate.
From: Tracker
02-Sep-18
If it is a county road you can access it. My first move would be to verify with the county.
From: Teeton
02-Sep-18
Many years back a friend took me to a place he hunted many of years before, he is a resident of Colorado.. We came to a spot that now had a gate. The gate was open. It was two gates one on one side or the road and one on the other. It looked like if you pulled the two gates to the middle of the road they would just about meet. Coming up to the gate it was posted on both sides of the road. If was listed as a forest service road. On each post holding a gate was poster's facing as if you when through the gate you would be trespassing.. Each gate was chained opened so you could not shut them. You could see where others turned around. We turned around and went someplace else. It was where we planned the hunt from when we first planned the hunt. He hunted up that road a few times before, in previous years,, that gate was not there then.
A month after we hunted my friend I was hunting with called the tell me the the rancher that owned the land on both sides of the road put up the gates, to discourage others from hunting up the road. His brother call the FS to ask about the gate/road as he was planning on rifle hunting up it. As he did years passed. The forest service said the poles and the gates are on this property. He has them locked open with chains so no one would close them. He could not lock them and the forest service asked him about the gates and he said to the FS that the poles and the gates and the posters are on his property and they were... He also said he's not blocking anyone from going up the road and he wasn't.
After reading this I'm sure you all know what he did.
From: WapitiBob
02-Sep-18
The landowner has every right to gate the road if the forest service never had a public easement across said private. The forest service law enforcement should be your first contact and any Leo worth a darn should know if the landowner had an easement. We had a similar situation up here with blm. Turns out they built part of their road outside their easement corridor.
From: BOHNTR
02-Sep-18
Yup....no easement....no access.
From: JLeMieux
02-Sep-18
According to the MVUM 763.3A1 ends at the private parcel.
From: Outdoordan
03-Sep-18
It sounds like the road, if used previously for a number of years, could be identified as a "prescriptive easement". I would say it is worth the fight, and the forest service should be in that fight. However, with an overburdened forest service staff, I doubt they would spearhead the fight unless someone put their feet to the fire. It is a growing problem in the West, and it needs to be addressed via diplomacy, and lastly through litigation (preferably with the fs money and legal staff). A property owner can not just lock out a road or trail, if it can be shown (map) as utilized for a proven period of time.
From: Buskill
03-Sep-18
Assuming the guy has the right to close it off , I’d offer to pay for the right to cross his piece of land if the public land was good enough .
From: Trial153
03-Sep-18
We had this happen in NM. The forest service and GW came down and cut the chain and lock. Two days later the ranch manger welded it shut. This was county road btw. De facto ownership of public land. Some landowners even have the balls to list the land locked BLM land in their ranch listings.
From: Snag
03-Sep-18
http://www.trcp.org/unlocking-public-lands/ Check this out. Organizations like TRCP are taking steps to make sure our public lands are accessible!
From: skookumjt
03-Sep-18
Easement by prescription isn't quite that simple. For example, if there is an ownership change it no longer applies.
From: ground hunter
03-Sep-18
I had a similar situation many years ago, in Northern Wisconsin. I needed to access an area, that would save me 40 minutes of hiking, making it only 20 minutes, but there was a gate across the road, with a cabin, on the other side to the right.???? according to my map, it was public, but I parked, went to the cabin, no one was home, put a note on their door, and continued to use the road.....
Several weeks later, the cabin guys were there. They told me they put the gate up to keep ATV's out of the area, which were not legal anyways, but knew it was a public road. I continued to park outside the gate, but they ended up, being great guys, and I continued my access without any concern..........
Maybe you should hike up to the land owner, and talk to him
From: Missouribreaks
03-Sep-18
Nobody here will solve it. Private property rights are just that, private property rights. Hire a lawyer to see if they exist in this instance, they may or may not.
From: Corn bore
03-Sep-18
Easement by prescription laws very by state. In SD if the road is used for 20 years that's where it is regardless of wether there is an easement. In SD, The land surveyors guide to Supreme Court cases of SD is about 800 pages of solid gold on these subjects. I would look for similar information about Colorado laws. These can be very complicated issues that the FS and game wardens have little understanding of, this why the landowner can get away with the gate. Keep in mind that the landowner may be right, you would likely have to assemble an substantial history of the road and its use to get the true and correct story. In other words a ton of expensive work to open up a few hundred yards of road.
From: Grasshopper
03-Sep-18
The high lonesome ranch in Colorado has put a gate across a county road. I believe it is headed to the courts. There is the law, and the practical application. Guys will be locked out of access while the deep pockets of the landowner pay for attorneys to tie it up for years in the courts.
From: JuanPablo
03-Sep-18
"Nobody here will solve it. Private property rights are just that, private property rights. Hire a lawyer to see if they exist in this instance, they may or may not."
It sucks that now you have to hire an attorney just to go hunting.
From: midwest
03-Sep-18
If the MVUM says it ends at the private, there's your answer.
From: bigbulls6
03-Sep-18
If it has been used as public and it sounds like it does a prescriptive easement may exist he may be too late in trying to gate the property but trying to find someone to fight him is the problem. Also shows he is stealing land from the rest of us by denying access. I am pro farming and ranching but this is stealing of public land that lies beyond the gate. The new American way !! Greedy!!
From: Elk Assassin
03-Sep-18
I had no idea this was such a complicated issue. It seams to me that when a FS road completely goes through the private parcel, and accesses NF on the other side, the landowner shouldn't be able to close the road.
From: mn_archer
03-Sep-18
In a place I've hunted before there is a tiny cabin a couple miles past a f/s gate with tons of no motor vehicle signs. The cabin is on public property but is a long term lease. several people have keys to the gate as tg hey know the cabin owner, and they drive atv's all over the hell below the gate- which is illegal.
I've called it in a couple times but never once has a conservation officer went below the gate to see the trails and they were not interested in seeing any pictures
From: midwest
03-Sep-18
OnX says Woodruff SI H. That's all the info given.
From: Lost Arra
03-Sep-18
Definitely one of the shortcomings of e-scouting from afar.
From: Stew75
03-Sep-18
From: midwest
03-Sep-18
Ha....should have tapped on the location! Thanks, Stew!
From: Elk Assassin
03-Sep-18
Thanks Stew and Midwest...I appreciate the help very much! Doug
From: Wapitichaser
03-Sep-18
Wapitichaser's Link
Looks like Si Woodruff might be a Rio Blanco Sheriff's Deputy, could make things interesting...
From: Elk Assassin
03-Sep-18
WapitiChaser-I just noticed that myself. I'm guessing he knows the law and must have the right to close the road.
From: Wapitichaser
03-Sep-18
Wapitichaser's Link
Elk Assassin-he's now a county commissioner, see the link for his work phone # and email address. Good luck getting access!
From: Buglmin
03-Sep-18
We are able to lock roads in NM because the roads were built to access the oil well sites in the private land, not to access national forest. And because the oil field companies maintain the roads, they are not forest roads or blm roads. If a road was built to access the private property, it is not a forest service road, regardless of how many years it has been used as such. In Colorado, the property owner has to maintain the road, not the forest service. And just think, you and everyone else has been illegally trespassing all these years. And if the land owner has mineral rights, it gets even more tricker.
From: Elk Assassin
03-Sep-18
WapitiChaser-Thanks so much! I didn't come across that in my search.
From: JLeMieux
03-Sep-18
Not sure how old the current MVUM is but it clearly shows the road ending at the private. If you have access to older versions, maybe they show something different.
From: jordanathome
04-Sep-18
Yup....MVUM is the last word on motor vehicle travel. The remaining question is, can you still access the public land by foot on the road past the gate? I know of places where that is the case, and it does come down to whether the FS says it has an easement or not across the private via the road. Bunch of damn lawyers on here apparently....I have not heard "prescriptive easement" since 1994 in law school....LMAO! Perhaps we should explore adverse possession next? ;) Or perhaps that is what this property owner is doing to establish ownership of the road bed..........
From: Franklin
04-Sep-18
A lot of FS roads get gated....but are still accessible for foot traffic. But we all have easements on our properties, that still doesn`t mean people can trespass onto your property because it`s "an easement". It would need to be defined as a roadway, trail, access etc. Not sure if you are just concerned with access or vehicle access. Would be curious what you end up finding out. keep us posted....no pun intended. Another thing....don`t be afraid of to inquire regardless of the position of the landowner. In this political climate someone over stepping their bounds could work against them. Remember you are fighting for all of us.
From: Bigdan
04-Sep-18
midnight big chain and big Truck
From: jordanathome
04-Sep-18
LOL Dan!
From: LINK
05-Sep-18
It appears it wouldn’t be very hard to walk the 200 yards around the property boundary.
From: TrapperKayak
05-Sep-18
They don't have any right to do that. Got a winch?
From: 8point
05-Sep-18
A year or two ago, Bugle magazine did a series on public land access. As I recall, the Forest Service has been taking steps to address concerns of access over established roads and trails, but it's a long process.
From: coelker
05-Sep-18
So many factors to consider. I suggest you contact the Public Land Access Association. They will know and understand the law. There is all sorts of funky laws loopholes etc.
One key is to not wait get on the issue now. If an access route has not been used for so long it will be closed. Get on the ball and figure out what the status of the road is... You will need to dig and see when the road was established. If it is old enough it should remain open.
From: goelk
05-Sep-18
Buglmin hit on the head. Right on all counts what he said. Bummer too! Come on Si Woodruff whats up?
