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Fatal Cougar Attack In Oregon
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Contributors to this thread:
DL 11-Sep-18
GF 11-Sep-18
Dale06 11-Sep-18
ground hunter 11-Sep-18
JL 11-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 11-Sep-18
Lost Arra 11-Sep-18
bowbender77 11-Sep-18
CO_Bowhunter 11-Sep-18
Greg S 12-Sep-18
GF 12-Sep-18
CO_Bowhunter 12-Sep-18
elkstabber 12-Sep-18
bigswivle 12-Sep-18
Billyvanness 12-Sep-18
Amoebus 12-Sep-18
Teeton 12-Sep-18
mn_archer 12-Sep-18
smarba 12-Sep-18
TD 12-Sep-18
Snag 12-Sep-18
GF 12-Sep-18
loprofile 12-Sep-18
CO_Bowhunter 12-Sep-18
TD 12-Sep-18
RutnStrut 13-Sep-18
RJ Hunt 13-Sep-18
DL 14-Sep-18
houndy65 14-Sep-18
houndy65 14-Sep-18
GF 14-Sep-18
RJ Hunt 14-Sep-18
RJ Hunt 14-Sep-18
DL 14-Sep-18
RJ Hunt 17-Sep-18
GF 17-Sep-18
From: DL
11-Sep-18

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
When are people going to wake up?

From: GF
11-Sep-18
Got a link??

From: Dale06
11-Sep-18
Wow, I baited bears ( it was legal then) in the early 80s in that area. Hope voters in Oregon wake up, but I am not holding my breath.

11-Sep-18
Oregon,,,,, talk about a state that is out of touch..... Earth to Mars,,,,,

From: JL
11-Sep-18

JL's Link

From: Ucsdryder
11-Sep-18
When you realize most of these people would rather a person die than an animal, you’ll come to the realization that there’s zero chance of these things being overturned....and it’ll only get worse.

San Francisco’s, Los Angeles, Portland, Denver, Boulder...it’s all the same. Big cities deciding policies for the entire state...

From: Lost Arra
11-Sep-18
From the reaction to the griz hunt I would add Jackson Hole, Wyoming to your list.

From: bowbender77
11-Sep-18
It is a very clear example of the results of the fine work being done by the animal rites do- gooder folks.

From: CO_Bowhunter
11-Sep-18

CO_Bowhunter's embedded Photo
Mountain Lion in Colorado
CO_Bowhunter's embedded Photo
Mountain Lion in Colorado

CO_Bowhunter's Link
I intentionally spend time in places where I know mountain lions area present. The most dangerous part of the day is driving from my house to where I start hiking. These odd situations will come up from time to time but they are way out there on the bell curve of risk. Texting drivers scare the hell out of me. Mountain lions? Not so much.

From: Greg S
12-Sep-18
There will be more attacks. The cat population has doubled, maybe more since measure 18 passed about 20 years ago. I would think a few generations of cats that don’t need to fear people or dogs and they will start picking off more people that appear vulnerable.

From: GF
12-Sep-18

GF's Link
Not sure how "vulnerable" you need to look when you're dealing with a predator that can take down a healthy, mature bull Elk... unassisted.

All cats are curious. Hungry cats are curious about how different creatures might taste and how much trouble they'd be to take down.

There's a good book out there called Cat Attacks - not exactly the sort of thing that everyone wants to read before heading off to bed, but it definitely changed my attitude about them.

From: CO_Bowhunter
12-Sep-18
Greg, if your hypothesis had merit, there would be dozens of mountain lion attacks in this country per week. There are scores of trail runners near where I live and they run in prime mountain lion habitat daily. As our mule deer population bounced back from CWD culling by Colorado Parks and Wildlife, the lion population increased in a parallel fashion. Last October I videotaped six adult lions in one month along a one mile section of trail. I have never seen such a high concentration of adult lions in one area. Nobody died running or walking that trail. Humans are not on the prey list for mountain lions. Neither are beef calves. Although we'll have exceptions from time to time, they are rare.

From: elkstabber
12-Sep-18
In 2015 I had a lion encounter that I still have a hard time talking about. It was close, like 15'. I was solo. I had just quartered a bull and was hiking back for my packframe. That lion smelled me (and the bull) and we looked at each other for a while. He just sat and watched my reaction. It was like he was either trying to understand or was just playing with me. If he had wanted to kill me there would have been little I could have done because most of my gear was lying back next to the quarters.

I agree with David. For some reason they rarely attack humans. This is lucky for us.

From: bigswivle
12-Sep-18
They introduced mountain lions in south Florida telling everyone they would breed with the few remaining Florida panthers we had. Now we have a humongous mountain lion population, it’s amazing. They’re starting to eat pets and livestock now, won’t be long before someone gets it down here.

12-Sep-18
They want absolutely nothing to do with us.

From: Amoebus
12-Sep-18
"They’re starting to eat pets and livestock now, won’t be long before someone gets it down here."

FL needs a cat that will eat released boas and anacondas...

From: Teeton
12-Sep-18
Co_Bowhunter,

Are you the David Neils that's the founder of Wild Nature Media?? Thanks, Ed

From: mn_archer
12-Sep-18
you guys crack me up with comments like "hope they wake up..."

Remember about 7-8 years ago some female jogger was killed by a lion in California? She was a mom of 2 very young children. The state hired a hunter to track and kill the lion. Well turns out the lion had 2 kittens and they were captured alive for some dumb reason.

Well there were fundraisers for the deceased mothers husband and kids, as well as the lions kittens.

These same people you guys hope wake up raised something like 5 or 6 times more money for the kittens...

Michael

From: smarba
12-Sep-18
Correct Michael. "They" will never wake up.

From: TD
12-Sep-18
When they become a problem...... then the state will HIRE someone to go take out the problem animals. At a cost to the state. Allowing proper management and the tools to do so and it can become INCOME to cash strapped state wildlife depts. Sell tags. Hunters will hire the houndsmen. Win win. Or so you would think. Apparently that makes too much sense.

CA spends a great deal of money to take out lions every year. That you allow hunters to do what they were born to do to complete their lifestyle and take their proper place in wildlife management..... even though the lions are going to be "controlled" after the fact anyway, they would rather the lions come into town and eat fluffy and maybe a couple joggers first..... they state so all the time. They rather the animals be eradicated than hunted.

The first step of becoming a liberal/anti-hunter is to eliminate any and all logic, reason and reality from the thought process.

From: Snag
12-Sep-18
Rare? Yes. But I personally know of three guys who have had to scare off or shoot aggressive cats while elk hunting. They need to fear man. Dogs are an effective management tool. Without them we put ourselves in danger. Plus they are killing numbers of deer and elk that is not sustainable.

From: GF
12-Sep-18
It’ll probably take a few generations, but the cats have no innate fear of humans... so if they never feel threatened, they won’t teach their offspring to avoid us.

And in the world of Eat or Be Eaten, that makes us Food. Sooner or later.

JMO, letting a cat investigate you without giving it a reason to decide to leave Humans alone is a bad idea. It may not come back to bite you, but the next person may not be so fortunate.

I’m not saying we should shoot them on sight, but if I had one inside of bear spray range, I’d surely use it, and if I were carrying a firearm, I’d put a round into the dirt close enough to sting.

Bowhunting is scarier; Barry Wensel drilled one out of the air, mid-leap as it came at him. I don’t think I could afford to wait that long, so whaddya do?

From: loprofile
12-Sep-18
The dingo ate my baby.

From: CO_Bowhunter
12-Sep-18
Again, if mountain lions were interested in attacking humans there would be dozens of deaths each week. Mountain lion density tracks with prey density. The lines on the graph are parallel. They don't cross. There is plenty of research to back that up.

Regardless of the wildlife species, an habituated animal is always a human problem, never a wildlife problem. But it's the wildlife that are "put down" because of human laziness, stupidity, and ignorance.

From: TD
12-Sep-18
So the states like CA don't spend a dime on lion control? When hunters could do the same at a profit, especially when factoring in the savings?

Fewer lions (wolves, yotes and bears as well) wouldn't help recovery of mule deer and blacktail in places they are struggling to make a come back? Or are we being told to hang on and wait the decades it may take to do so (if at all) with no predator management? Or be told to rely on states to do so at taxpayer expense? With a side order of anti-hunter politics?

I would disagree about the "lines" never intersecting if you are talking about a time line. As predators increase, prey populations decrease, then swing back the other way in time as the predator starves out to a low enough number for the prey to recover. They intersect/cross all the time as one is rising population and the other is decreasing. Wolf introduction is a prime example, don't see how those numbers would be deniable. Those cats kill a good amount of game as well, and year round. The only snapshot in time there is a "balance" is as they cross with one population raising and the other decreasing.

One population rise or decline preceding or following the other is not a parallel line unless you're hand picking different times on the line in the future or past to make it so. Not both as the present. They are population swings using the same measure/place in time.

I see no reason or need to stand and watch those swings as a disinterested party. It is completely unnecessary. Proven so by wildlife biologists and modern game management.... when allowed to do so.

From: RutnStrut
13-Sep-18
"When they become a problem...... then the state will HIRE someone to go take out the problem animals. At a cost to the state. Allowing proper management and the tools to do so and it can become INCOME to cash strapped state wildlife depts. Sell tags. Hunters will hire the houndsmen. Win win. Or so you would think"

Common sense and the truth is to liberals as salt is to a slug.

From: RJ Hunt
13-Sep-18
I shoot them on sight. Without hesitation. In the last four years have shot two with my bow while deer or elk hunting as we crossed paths. They make good tacos.

From: DL
14-Sep-18
Mn_Archer you are correct I guess I thought maybe people in Oregon were a little wiser than down here. I was so wrong. I read on FB all the outraged people up there over hunting down the cat that killed the woman. They keep crying that it’s there territory and we are invading it. What if it was there child? I have a daughter in law that’s whining about it too. People are just sick.

From: houndy65
14-Sep-18
CO_Bowhunter, I am a life long houndsman, same as my dad. do you believe that the cougar should be hunted with hounds, simple yes or no question. I believe that the lions in Oregon, Washington and California are a threat, one person dying because of the stupidity of getting the urban population of those states to vote for bill to end cat hunting with dogs was a direct reason the lady in Oregon was killed, over population of cougars. Is it my understanding you believe cats should not be hunted with hounds, yes or no. Thanks; Terry L. Zink

From: houndy65
14-Sep-18

houndy65's Link

From: GF
14-Sep-18
“In the last four years have shot two with my bow while deer or elk hunting as we crossed paths.“

And why shouldn’t you? Of course I’m assuming that they’re in season and that you’ve got a tag in your pocket. That’s one of only 2 reasons I would think twice about it: no tag, or offspring in tow. A calf or a fawn can make it through the winter if it has made weight, but predators need more parental care if they’re going to make it, and I don’t see any sense in trying to eradicate them.

Houndy - I know you didn’t ask for my opinion on this issue, but if you’re interested in a discussion…

Perhaps my information is a bit out of date, but I am of the understanding that taking out the big,, mature males is likely to increase the overall cat population because one big, bad old Tom can control a very large territory which might otherwise be divided by several (say three or four) younger males. So taking out a “trophy class“ Tom is likely to increase the resident population density and presumably the birth rate in that area as well, as the chance of a female going un-bred is reduced.

And the higher birth rate will of course lead to more young cats dispersing and wandering into human-settled areas where they will eventually cause problems.

On the other hand, hunters taking such cats as they run across while pursuing deer or elk are going to take a much more randomly-selected sample of the population... although it’s likely that they will end up getting a lot more of the younger, bolder/more curious, less man-shy individuals. So maybe it’s not a more “random” sample, but actually skewed towards the individuals that are most likely to cause problems.

A Houndsan such as yourself, on the other hand, probably makes a better living by helping his clients take out the largest, wariest and most elusive Toms.

I’m sure a lot of people would then jump to the conclusion that hound hunting is the worst possible option because of the impacts on the population dynamics… But on the other hand, I’d expect that you don’t tree very many big, mature Toms without (in the process) convincing a lot of younger cats (both male and female) that humans are definitely to be avoided. AND the impact of taking out the Boss is offset by the efficiency.

So the question becomes “Do we want to manage our Lions as a larger population of younger, bolder individuals, or as a smaller population of older, wiser and warier individuals?”

Personally, I cannot foresee hiring anyone to take me on a hound hunt. It’s not so much because of all the dubious and/or outright damnable practices that I’ve read about over the years (the bad actors are always the ones who get the most attention while honest folk causing no problems never make the news); it’s just that I don’t think it’s for me.

So, since I WOULD be interested in taking a cat someday, I guess my chances are better without hound-hunting being legal. As are my chances of accidentally cow-calling one in and getting mauled, and there being no houndsmen left to track down the troublemaker.

So - again, not that you asked - where do I come out on this one? Keep at it, man. It’ll probably guarantee that I’ll never have a lion skull in my man cave, but that’s kind of like my choosing not to buy a lottery ticket...

From: RJ Hunt
14-Sep-18
1-yes have a tag in my pocket 2- and always in season.

From: RJ Hunt
14-Sep-18
Oh and 3- yes people in Oregon (Portland area) are pretty poor thinkers.

From: DL
14-Sep-18

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo

From: RJ Hunt
17-Sep-18

RJ Hunt's embedded Photo
RJ Hunt's embedded Photo
The cougar population in Oregon is out of control. Just yesterday I shot my third as was coming to a cow call at 20'. Our deer populations are dismal at best and we need to reduce the cat numbers quite a bit.

From: GF
17-Sep-18
Calling in a cougar sounds like it’d be an awesome experience.... with a reliable partner.

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