Moultrie Products
Broadhead for Cape Buffalo
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Contributors to this thread:
Bill V 19-Sep-18
Ken Moody Safaris 19-Sep-18
BullBuster 19-Sep-18
Franklin 19-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 19-Sep-18
Buffalo1 19-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 19-Sep-18
Dale06 19-Sep-18
Buffalo1 19-Sep-18
olebuck 20-Sep-18
huntinelk 20-Sep-18
APauls 20-Sep-18
Bill V 20-Sep-18
Tyler 20-Sep-18
APauls 20-Sep-18
Ken Moody Safaris 20-Sep-18
Bill V 26-Sep-18
Treeline 26-Sep-18
Pat Lefemine 26-Sep-18
Dale06 26-Sep-18
Pat Lefemine 26-Sep-18
Bill V 27-Sep-18
Dale06 27-Sep-18
c5ken 28-Sep-18
Spiral Horn 02-Oct-18
creed 02-Oct-18
Bill V 04-Oct-18
Spiral Horn 07-Oct-18
Trial153 07-Oct-18
Robear 08-Oct-18
Ken Moody Safaris 02-Dec-18
Too Many Bows Bob 02-Dec-18
12ringman 02-Dec-18
Dale06 03-Dec-18
Dale06 03-Dec-18
tradmt 03-Dec-18
Dale06 04-Dec-18
c5ken 04-Dec-18
tradmt 04-Dec-18
Dale06 04-Dec-18
c5ken 05-Dec-18
From: Bill V
19-Sep-18

Bill V's embedded Photo
Bill V's embedded Photo
I'm considering designing a broadhead for Cape Buffalo, similar to our Iron Will S-Series (solid blade), but without the bleeder blade for maximum penetration. My question is: What broadhead weight do most hunters use for Cape Buffalo? Any other considerations specific to this animal are also welcome.

19-Sep-18
200-250 grains is a good weight. Solid steel no aluminum and extremely sharp. We’ve shot many buffalo this year and the best head we’ve found for the job is the original German Kinetics. Good luck. Interested to see what you come up with.

From: BullBuster
19-Sep-18
300 for me

From: Franklin
19-Sep-18
Go over to Leatherwall....a guy just took one with a longbow. He posted some good info on his broadheads and how well they stood up.

From: Ucsdryder
19-Sep-18
Ken moody, I’m using those GK for elk. I’m amazed how well they perform and how sharp they are after cutting bone.

From: Buffalo1
19-Sep-18
My last PH that I had raved about GK Silver Flames ( the original ones) being the best BH that he had seen being used by bow hunters.

From: Ucsdryder
19-Sep-18
Buffalo I’m shooting the 125XL’s out to 100. They are BIG and still fly amazing! I’ve necer messed with the Alaska ones, but heard they were inferior.

From: Dale06
19-Sep-18
Bill, a friend and I shot Cape buffalo with bows in 2014. And we shot several head of plaines game with the same set up. We both used 315 grain Ashby single bevel broadheads. Those broadheads were a total failure, for both of us. In several cases, the tip 3/8” or so broke off I guess when it hit bone. I had one of these BHs shear off even with the end of my arrow. I suspect this breakage was due to defects in the metal, improper hardening that made them brittle, or something along those lines. Additionally, penetration was way below what I expected, on the Cape buffalo and even some of the plaines game. I believe that the single bevel design contributed to the poor penetration. I think the rotation of the single bevel uses some of its energy rotating and cutting a nasty wound channel and that sacrifices the depth of penetration. Getting only 18-20” of penetration on smaller animals is not much of a problem, but it is on a Cape buffalo. My input for you to consider on an IW Cape Buffalo head would be- 200-250 grains, double bevel, 1” width, no bleeder, a steeper blade ange than on your current heads ( I shoot the 125 vented), and shaving sharp. Thanks for asking.

From: Buffalo1
19-Sep-18

Buffalo1's embedded Photo
Buffalo1's embedded Photo
Bone is going have to be busted to get to vitals. Only a lucky quartering away shot could slip thru “Venetian blind” rib cage design that a cape has.

I’ve killed a water buff; it has “traditional structure ” rib cage design, but animal is a little wider body. I used a 125 gr. Zwickey 2-blade with a 100 brass insert. My problem was getting enough penetration to take out both lungs with an arrow. Had to “pin cushion” shots to properly penetrate both lungs to take animal out.

From: olebuck
20-Sep-18
Bill V - i think you are on the right track with your design. i have never hunted big game other than whitetail and elk - so take that for what its worth..

i have dozens of the original GK XL's and they are fantastic broad heads - but they are not better than yours. The sharpness and strength of the Iron wills is second to none. i would target 200 grains, maybe go a little longer and a little wider it being just a 2 blade.... once those PH's in africa see it - they will add the iron will to the list of BA broadheads.....

i'm still wishing you would make the ultimate white tail head. 175 grains 1 5/8 - 1 7/8 wide.

From: huntinelk
20-Sep-18
If you get one designed and need some field testing, I would be willing to make the "sacrifice"....I'm going to Australia for water buffalo next year.

From: APauls
20-Sep-18
Tyler has a lot of experience on water buffalo, from what I understand Cape Buffalo are different. I'd still talk to Tyler anyways - actually Bill he's a buddy of mine I told you about. I think he was hoping to try your heads on buff this summer. Not sure if he was able to or not. He's just guiding moose in Newfoundland and killing crankers every couple days.

I was going to shoot the solid 150's this year for moose out of my compound and my longbow, and I did simply take the bleeder off to look at it, and was wondering about shooting it just like that. I didn't look at it in detail yet to see if that allows the main blade to slip around or anything if the bleeder isn't in there. Just something I was debating if I was worried about penetration with the stick.

From: Bill V
20-Sep-18
Thanks for the replies everyone. Ken Moody, thanks and I agree that German Kinetics makes a fine broadhead, but you know the ferrule is aluminum right? I will be using hardened stainless steel. APauls, you can shoot our current broadheads without the bleeder, but it reduces the weight by 10 grains. I may start with just the 200 grain and see how many requests I get for a 250.

From: Tyler
20-Sep-18
For water buffs I like to see 175 heads or heavier, personally I think your design would work fine especially without the bleeder blade. Obviously everyones setup is going to be different, we can always shoot lighter heads with heavier inserts or outserts to beef up the setups as well. Was planning to shoot a buff with your heads this year but didnt get any hunting time in personally so hopefully this year ill test them out. Your heads look great and shouldn't have any issues. I do like solid one piece construction a little better compared to a ferrule with blade and screws, thats just an opinion though I feel the more parts the more chance of breaking but as you say strong as science allows. At the end of the day if its gonna break its gonna break, it doesn't matter what it is, and I have seen all the best brands of heads break and fail at some point its just going to happen. I wouldn't hesitate to contact Neil Summers as well he would have some great input and lots of experience harvesting big boned critters, I cant remember what heads he was shooting with me this year in camp Alaskan I think 300 grains... I was extremely impressed with this head all broadheads hit bone and you wouldnt know it .

From: APauls
20-Sep-18
My longbow groups won't change inside of 30 yards with 10 grains removed off 650 grains :) Thanks Bill.

20-Sep-18
Yes, the GK has the aluminum ferrule. Go with all steel (I’m sure you are).

From: Bill V
26-Sep-18

Bill V's embedded Photo
Bill V's embedded Photo
After discussing with Ken, I'm now planning 200 & 250 grain options, solid blade without bleeders. By the way, Mark Reed sent me this photo and comment today. "Broadhead worked great!!! The Cape Buffalo went about 80yds. I shot it with your Iron Will S175 with bleeders removed and FMJ Dangerous game arrow with 50g insert. Total arrow weight was 811g .Shot with a Mathews Halon set at 68#. Great penetration and I used the same broadhead 2 days later on the Eland."

From: Treeline
26-Sep-18
Damn good performance right there!

From: Pat Lefemine
26-Sep-18

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
One shot with an 1100 grain arrow and a 200 gr. 2 blade stainless steel broadhead dropped this giant free range bull in 30 seconds.
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
One shot with an 1100 grain arrow and a 200 gr. 2 blade stainless steel broadhead dropped this giant free range bull in 30 seconds.

Definitely a heavy, 2-blade head like the Iron will head. I used the Muzzy Phantom Stainless steel 2 blades with no bleeders. It worked well but when Feradyne purchased Muzzy they discontinued it. My free range buffalo from Mozambique was dead in 30 seconds.

Watch the video.

From: Dale06
26-Sep-18
Interesting. What draw weight, and arrow weight?

From: Pat Lefemine
26-Sep-18
94lb draw, 1100 gr arrow/Broadhead combination

From: Bill V
27-Sep-18
Interesting video, Pat. Those are some thick ribs!

From: Dale06
27-Sep-18
And that is some high energy in your set up.

From: c5ken
28-Sep-18
I killed a Cape Buff last year. I used a: Mathews Halon 32/6 set at 65lbs Easton FMJ-DJ arrow & Bishop single bevel two bld broad-head. Total arrow weight was 965gr. I shot the buff at 22 yards & got 25" of penetration.

From: Spiral Horn
02-Oct-18
Hi Bill,

After using just about everything at one time or another and taking more than my share of big stuff I’ve found original German Kenitcs (not Silver Flames) consistently reliable on a wide variety of big stuff. Just love their quality of steel - easy to keep razor sharp. The game seems to be very impressed. They’ve also given me the best penetration of any heavyweight head despite the aluminum ferrule.

For weight - I’ve played with both the 220s and 180s with both bow and crossbow. Developed a T-Rex capable setup for my Scorpyd which loves the vented 180s with spectacular results. Wouldn’t hesitate to take world’s biggest and toughest with it.

Anyway, this is my actual experience on taking “big” stuff with an arrow. Others my have their own favorites (and that’s OK with me). GKs will be on my arrows and bolts when pursuing big stuff.

From: creed
02-Oct-18
My boss had a complete pass thru on a buffalo at 25yds shooting a Matthews bow set at 70 lbs, 425 grain arrow with a 125 grain slick trick and 300 fps. Guess he was fortunate.

From: Bill V
04-Oct-18
Spiral Horn, thanks for the input. I agree German Kinetics makes a fine broadhead. Many PHs have told me they work well. I used to shoot them and have always been impressed with their sharpness. I would occasionally break a tip or bend a ferrule. This drove me to use a shorter tanto style tip and experiment through 5 different steels on my broadhead until I found one that could get at least as sharp yet have higher impact strength (A2 tool steel). Changing from aluminum to hardened stainless steel also keeps ferrules from bending with side impacts like a glancing hit on a bone. German Kinetics is a fine choice though in my opinion as a mechanical engineering. I don't think you will see any issues from the aluminum ferrule with good shot placement.

From: Spiral Horn
07-Oct-18
Hi Bill,

Completely agree that if you can find and use similar quality steel to the original GKs and put that on a steel or titanium ferrule that would be simply devastating.

Blender blades - I used to use the SS Muzzy Phantoms years ago and would remove the bleeder blades which vastly improved flight characteristics, but really weakened the structural integrity of the head. So, they would often break when hitting bone. For my money, no bleeders. They just don’t fly anywhere near as well - especially if you can mantain serious arrow speed. My crossbow does, and I see quite a difference. So, the juice just doesn’t seem worth the squeeze.

My 2 cents

From: Trial153
07-Oct-18
why would anyone want 440 C?

From: Robear
08-Oct-18
Bill, for what it's worth, I killed mine with a 210gr Steel Force head. Arrow weight was 900gr. Very good penetration. Right in the "golden triangle" thru the top of heart with broadhead and 2 inches of shaft sticking out the opposite side. Bull was very dead very quickly.

02-Dec-18

Bill V - Iron Will 's embedded Photo
Iron Will Buff200 Broadhead
Bill V - Iron Will 's embedded Photo
Iron Will Buff200 Broadhead
I've been getting a few questions asking when we are making broadheads for Cape Buffalo. The design is complete and parts are being built now for 200 & 250 grain heads without bleeders. They will be available in January at the latest. We may add a 150 grain also.

02-Dec-18
Let me know when ready.

02-Dec-18
My friend used a Tuffhead, about 200 grains on a cape buffalo and an elephant. He was shooting a 75 lb Black Widow, and killed them both nicely.

The only suggestion I would offer besides grain weight is to look at Hill's recommendation of the 3-1 ratio to increase penetration.

TMBB

02-Dec-18
Thanks. The problem I have with the 3-1 ratio is that it results in a weak tip. Our blade is shortened with a tanto tip to add strength. By measuring penetration force, I've found that extremely sharp edges and edge retention are a bigger factor in reducing force to penetrate and increasing penetration.

From: 12ringman
02-Dec-18

12ringman's embedded Photo
12ringman's embedded Photo
Have you looked at the Cutthroat broadheads? They go up to 250 grain on the one piece screw in or go with the glue on and a steel adapter.

03-Dec-18
12ringman, I have and Cutthroat makes a fine broadhead. I think the Iron Will double bevel will actually penetrate further, since it doesn't use up energy rotating like a single bevel, but we will find out.

From: Dale06
03-Dec-18
Bill, to your point on the 3:1 ratio and loss of energy on single bevel, I and a friend hunted Cape buffalo in 2014. Both of us used the long Ashby single bevel. I don’t know the length to width ratio on that head, but it’s long and thin. Both of us shot Cape buffalo. The tip of my Ashby head broke off. Penetration was marginal. The poor penetration in my view was both the point being gone, and the extra energy that the single bevel uses making a spiral wound channel. I do recall that my friend also had the tip of his Ashby break off. I do not recall his penetration. But recovering his buffalo was a multi day rodeo, that involved a helicopter, so one can make an assumption. No way I’d ever use a single bevel or long narrow head on extra large game like Cape buffalo. Been there and done that.

From: Dale06
03-Dec-18
Bill, to your point on the 3:1 ratio and loss of energy on single bevel, I and a friend hunted Cape buffalo in 2014. Both of us used the long Ashby single bevel. I don’t know the length to width ratio on that head, but it’s long and thin. Both of us shot Cape buffalo. The tip of my Ashby head broke off. Penetration was marginal. The poor penetration in my view was both the point being gone, and the extra energy that the single bevel uses making a spiral wound channel. I do recall that my friend also had the tip of his Ashby break off. I do not recall his penetration. But recovering his buffalo was a multi day rodeo, that involved a helicopter, so one can make an assumption. No way I’d ever use a single bevel or long narrow head on extra large game like Cape buffalo. Been there and done that.

From: tradmt
03-Dec-18
People were breaking Ashby heads on deer, they were defective in manufacturing, not design.

That said,..Ed Ashby probably shot more heads through buffalo ribs than all of us combined ever will X10 during his Natal Study.

From: Dale06
04-Dec-18
Tradmt, you may be rifgt.right. But when a BH fails on a $10,000 trophy fee animal, that got my attention.

From: c5ken
04-Dec-18
Several years ago, I was in SA hunting plains game. Two guys in camp hunting Buff's with Ashby heads. Every head broke when shot. Some even broke on plains game. Just passing on my limited exposure to Ashby heads.

I hunted buffs in SA last year with the following setup: Mathews Halon 32/6 set at 65# Easton FMJ-DG arrow with Bishop 315gr broad head. Total arrow weight was 965gr. FOC was 21.42%, K/E = 83.07 and momentum was 0.842. I got 25" of penetration on the buff I shot.

From: tradmt
04-Dec-18
Dale06, I bet it did! Tuffhead makes the same profile head and they don’t break because they are built differently.

From: Dale06
04-Dec-18
Hey, Ken, that was me in that camp with you. Hope you are doing well. You are right, we broke some Ashby’s on plains game as well as buffalo. Guess the Ashby heads ought to be saved for smaller stuff, cottontails, grouse, etc.

From: c5ken
05-Dec-18
Hi Daie06, Nice to hear from you. My regards to you & john...i

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