Low Chest Hit, still alive 15 hours late
Contributors to this thread:Whitetail Deer
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Shot a buck at 20 yards last night, he was broadside and arrow hit just above the brisket right behind the shoulder like it shows in the picture. Dark red blood. Bumped him last night so gave him time but bumped him again this morning after following for almost a mile, finding numerous beds and places where he stopped. I figured I had at least clipped one lung and/or the liver but am skeptical I didn't hit any vitals at this point. We are still able to follow the blood trail, what are chances of recovering this deer?
From: drycreek
22-Sep-18
Not good IMO. Too low for liver. I'm assuming from tree stand. What height ? Really too many unanswered questions. Sometimes we don't hit where we "know" we hit. Hope you find him and the meat is edible.
From: Ironbow
22-Sep-18
Liver is much higher and back. If you hit the brisket, which I am guessing you did, they will bleed for awhile and then be fine. Always hard to know exactly where you hit until you find them.
From: Franklin
22-Sep-18
Depends if you were in the exact position of that photo. If you were that would be a dead deer. Next deer you field dress check the depth of the deer`s chest at that very point...it`s not as thick as you think. The "brisket" is in front of the shoulder...that area is the "sternum". Shot was probably lower than you think....any whiteish grease on the arrow?
From: Charlie Rehor
22-Sep-18
If he’s still bleeding that’s good. I’d get back after him with a loaded Quiver. Good luck!
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Yes from tree stand. 15 ft. Up. Also worth noting, he stopped about 50 yards from where I hit him and stood for 20 mins before heading into cover. Have not come across my arrow but he was bleeding from both sides of his body so the broadhead must have made it through the other side. Is there a "dead zone" down there just like above the vitals? What could I possibly have clipped?
From: spike78
22-Sep-18
Hit my first deer same spot and it bled good at first but never found him. My arrow looked like Franklin is saying with the white fat.
From: Medicinemann
22-Sep-18
PM sent
From: BullBuster
22-Sep-18
that spot or lower with an angle and he is still alive sounds ominous. probably did not enter chest cavity. does his bed look like he is coughing up blood to the side, or just around the body? still hunt him and get another arrow in him. When he stood at 50 yards, would have been a good time to shoot again if possible.
From: deerslayer
22-Sep-18
No dead zone. Sounds like you hit high brisket. Maybe you even nicked the heart by a fraction. I think the advice above is great. Keep on him and slowly move forward until you can sneak close enough for a finishing shot.
From: LBshooter
22-Sep-18
Meat hit doesn't sound like anything vital. Let him sit and hope shock takes him out for you but I bet he lives.
From: Shawn
22-Sep-18
With the deer in the photos leg back like it is than he is most likely gut shot. That red dot is actually a bit too far back and low to catch the lungs and nowhere near high enough to get liver. I believe he will die, but it may take up to 24 hrs . If he has been bedding just back out and let him lay he won't get up if you leave him alone long enough. I hit a a nice buck 3 years ago in almost the same spot maybe a bit farther back but not much. A guy down the road from me found him dead 2 days later laying in a small creek. Said he was still pretty fresh and did not seem to be dead for more than several hours. Shawn
From: Kurt
22-Sep-18
I agree with Shawn. Too far back for lungs or heart. Maybe stomach or diaphragm hit. Diaphragm angles forward toward the bottom of the heart as it is goes lower in the chest cavity.
From: Dale06
22-Sep-18
Where we think we hit is often not where we hit. Been there. I’m guessing he’s alive and likely will survive, but I was not there.
From: jdrdeerslayer
22-Sep-18
shawn ia spot on ive been on several deer hit like that, about 1/2 were dead next day, aome we had to back out and wait.....give him some more time . if you can watch him from a distance great, if not go in one guy on trail one arrow knocked ready quietly....
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Blood just around body, not coughing it up. Is a diaphragm hit lethal? I'm planning to go back in the morning to try again. Will try get close enough for a shot if possible. I agree about a follow up shot at 50 yards when he stopped but trees were in the way so that wasn't an option. Thanks for all advice/ideas, I appreciate it!
From: Drahthaar
22-Sep-18
Yes diaphragm hit is lethal, won't go far. You did not hit that deer where the red dot is, that is in front if the diaphragm, maybe you hit lower and just have a flesh wound, but that red dot is a dead deer. Forrest
From: Arrowflinger
22-Sep-18
I agree with Drahthaar, I hit a deer there a few years ago and he didn't go 50 yards. That is much closer to a heart shot then diaphragm or guts. go straight up the leg just below center body and get a double lung hit. I believe you hit lower then the spot your showing on the pic. But if I were you I would keep looking.
From: Charlie Rehor
22-Sep-18
Go back now!
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Why go back now? I would think giving him time is the best option at this point? If theres no dead zone down there how could it be just a flesh wound like everyone keeps saying? When the arrow connected it hit him like a ton of bricks and took him a second to get going, not like I just grazed the sternum or anything, I can guarantee that's not the case.
From: BullBuster
22-Sep-18
The arrow will tell you a lot if you can find it
From: Charlie Rehor
22-Sep-18
Because it’s been 20 hours+. If your busy doing something important, it’s real cold out and you have no coyotes perhaps wait until the am but I’m back after the deer right now.
From: Lee
22-Sep-18
If he is continually bleeding and bedding up numerous times I’d keep him on his feet til he wears out. Has to be weak with continual blood loss. I hit one there a few years ago - single blade slice to the bottom of the heat. Pushed him and he bled out. Barely nicked the heart the shot was mostly in the bottom of the rib cage.
Good luck,
Lee
From: Woods Walker
22-Sep-18
What kind of broadhead were you using?
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Toxic broadhead, have had great results with them last 5 or so kills since I started using them. I am hesitant to keep pushing him due to terrain.
From: DMTJAGER
22-Sep-18
There is a great youtube video I wish I could link you to that shows a anatomically correct full sized deer target and I mean its a perfect reproduction of an entire deer complete with all vitals and bone structure and it is IMHO mandatory viewing for all bow hunters. It showed me just how incorrect my supposed "Knowledge" of white tail anatomy was. A good example is there is no so called "DEAD ZONE" above the lungs and below the spine. In this video the has a deer with part of it's chest area removed exposing the lungs. He inflates the lungs and clearly shows the lung occupy the entire chest cavity right up to the bottom of the spinal cord.
Judging from what I now know sounds like you hit him in his brisket and likely not any vital organs. The color of the blood can tell you often but not always if you hit a major vital organ or artery or vain. Same for any hair you found. Once you know what each different type of blood looks like looks like, muscle blood is easy to discern from liver or cardiovascular sources of blood. IN my experience once I learned what they looked like blood from muscle, liver or cardio sources were easy to identify, UNLESS my arrow also passed through the gut as well as say the liver as I had happen one time. But I saw 100% for certain a fair amount of liver blood on the ground where my arrow had impacted after pass though. So I left the big 10 alone till fallowing morning and found him dead in his first bed. I recommend you search Youtube for deer anatomy videos the education will be well worth your time. best of luck but if you did as I suspect hit him in the brisket only he should recover baring infection. What type of BH did you use?
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Toxic broadhead. I believe the video you are referencing is by Brian Johnson/Revolution Taxidermy...
From: WV Mountaineer
22-Sep-18
If you hit him there from 15 feet above him then its to low. Hit him there from the ground flat, he'd been dead 20 seconds after the shot. The location of that red dot is not the guts or diaphragm.
From: MFJ
22-Sep-18
Thought I mentioned this above but don't think I did. Dark red blood was watery if anyone has any experience with that.
From: Glunker
22-Sep-18
Several years ago i shot a good buck with a similar hit. I saw the hit and thought maybe heart shot. Pass through. Deer went 50 yards and locked up, i was waiting for it to fall. It moved 15 yards and bedded. I backed out and because it was so warm came back about 6 hours later and deer was gone. Long story short i shot that deer 3 days later on another stand. The first hit [4 blade] went through the bottom of one lung and below the other. Hole was 1.5" above the bottom of the lung. The lower lung lobes I was told are less lethal. Hope this helps.
From: Michael
22-Sep-18
That is where the exit hole was on my bull this year. The one thing I had going for me was entrance was right in front of hind leg. He was alive 14 hours later. My hit was guts and through the diaphragm. He wouldn’t run so I finished him off quickly.
From: Buffalo1
22-Sep-18
"barely nicked the heart" ? And still living? I'm confused !
From: skookumjt
22-Sep-18
There is no dead zone below the heart/lungs (or anywhere else) but there is plenty of muscle below the sternum to get a body hit. Go find a dog and feel how much muscle there is on it's chest. Same with a deer.
From: 1boonr
22-Sep-18
Most of the time the deer is never hit exactly where you think. I would say that it’s a low rib shot and no vital organs hit and chest cavity not penetrated.
From: Drahthaar
22-Sep-18
You say dark watery blood , that is liver and guts. Forrest
From: Woods Walker
22-Sep-18
Sure sounds like it.
From: Lever Action
23-Sep-18
I am blown away by the comments on location of internals. I am just flabbergasted. Never seen so many parts put in so many places that dont harbor such parts. No wonder people wound deer so often. If you dont know where something is, how are you going to hit it? Not talking about the OP guy (alone) either. Just horrid!
From: Franklin
23-Sep-18
Here`s a few images.....https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Anatomy+of+a+Deer+for+Bowhunters&FORM=IRIBIP
From: Lever Action
23-Sep-18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5fkdN0tuI
From: Bou'bound
23-Sep-18
Good point lever action it’s clear with that shot you’re going to get one kidney at best
From: MFJ
23-Sep-18
Good news! I was able to recover this deer this morning 40 hours after the shot, about 9 hours of searching total. The hit ended up being about 2 inches further back than I thought and a tick higher, not lower and just a flesh wound like many expected. Thanks to all for sharing your experiences and advice to help me keep my hopes up! Not an ideal situation by any means but I learned a lot of valuable lessons.
From: Missouribreaks
23-Sep-18
Nice job MFJ, you made the correct choices.
From: Buffalo1
23-Sep-18
Congrats on the recovery. At least you have closure on your shot.
Some interesting and valuable, educational comments posted on this thread.
From: PSUArcher
23-Sep-18
Good work, way to stick with it. Pics?
From: deerslayer
23-Sep-18
That is excellent news!!!! Great job!!!
So I am confused. It was a flesh wound? If so how did you recover him? Details man, details!!
From: longbeard
23-Sep-18
Are you saying it was just a flesh wound? If so did you put another arrow through him?
From: Missouribreaks
23-Sep-18
No he is not saying that, others however did.
From: orionsbrother
23-Sep-18
Glad you stuck with it and found him. Congratulations.
From: Bou'bound
23-Sep-18
You earned him. Good work
From: dm/wolfskin
23-Sep-18
??????
From: MFJ
23-Sep-18
It was not just a flesh wound like many on here thought it might be.
From: MFJ
23-Sep-18
From: JL
23-Sep-18
MFJ - congrats on the recovery. What was the final story on how it played out? Pics would be cool too. Thanks......
From: MFJ
23-Sep-18
I apologize, I did not take pictures of the entry and exit wound. The best I can do is tell you that the arrow entered about 2 inches further back and about an inch higher than where it is marked on the picture above and exited out the bottom of the animal just behind the sternum. He must have been slightly turned toward me judging by the angle of the entry/exit. No vitals were hit other than guts that I could tell. Hope that helps
From: JL
23-Sep-18
MFJ - That is a nice one. Here is a tracking job I did on one I hit real close to where your original pic shows. When I seen your pic I thought that should be a dead deer.
From: Woods Walker
23-Sep-18
GOOD JOB! Learn from the experience. Every kill is a textbook. I've been bowhunting for 50 years and I'm still learning!
And thanks for sharing it, because I try to learn from the experience of others too.
From: deerslayer
23-Sep-18
That is a great buck. Good job!
From: Arrowflinger
23-Sep-18
It is a fact all gut shot deer die. It is very difficult most times to find them. You did good staying after it. And it is a very nice buck! Congratulations!
From: Lee
23-Sep-18
I figured he’d die when you said he’d repeatedly bedded. How much farther did he go? Glad you got him!
Lee
From: Dale06
23-Sep-18
I was one of the flesh wound predictors. Very nice deer, congrats.
From: Shawn
24-Sep-18
Yup very nice but I don't have a clue about what I am talking about!! Just ask JTV, even your original spot was borderline gut, like I said!! Congrats on a very nice buck!! Shawn
From: Lever action
24-Sep-18
good job on the tracking and recovery.
From: grubby
24-Sep-18
Nice buck! I'm glad this story had a happy ending. Now tell us the rest of the story.
From: Slate
24-Sep-18
Congrats that is a beautiful animal.
From: Charlie Rehor
24-Sep-18
From your first post: “We are still able to follow blood”
After reading that statement from your first post I felt the odds were pretty good. Congrats, great buck and recovery. C
From: APauls
24-Sep-18
AWESOME!!! Congrats MFJ and a GREAT buck as well! Way to stick with it, and you obviously made the right choices. One thing that always stands out is that often the hit isn't exactly where we thought it was. Way to keep after him.
From: Drummer Boy
24-Sep-18
Nice,good job staying with it.That was not a flesh hit it was a gut shot.
From: ELKMAN
24-Sep-18
Good job sir. Wish there were more like you...
From: skookumjt
24-Sep-18
I love it. Post a picture with the entrance in the wrong place and then criticize people for giving advice based on the bad info.
From: Smtn10PT
24-Sep-18
Nice job on the tracking and recovery!
From: Franklin
24-Sep-18
That`s why these "bad hit...now what" threads are nuts. The information is rarely correct....the shot angle and area hit is rarely correct....thus any advice is rarely correct. Makes everyone look like fools.
He won`t post the pics as the actual shot will be far different than described. Which is fine because in the heat of the moment it`s hard to know. If the shot went where we "thought" it did the deer would of died.
There was no mention of "quartering to" and the photo showed a dead broadside deer.
From: Shawn
25-Sep-18
Even where the shot was shown to have hit is borderline guts. The lungs come back quite aways up high but the are farther forward down low and shoulder protects the lower portion and the heart to some degree. That is why I said with the leg back like it was the shot was very likely guts from the get go. Shawn
From: Finey
25-Sep-18
After all this discussion about the hit, where vitals are at, what to do and you didn’t take any pics of the entrance or exit?? Come on man. Are you sure it’s the same deer or did you just want to wrap this thread up?
From: ELKMAN
25-Sep-18
That guy is over inflating that deer's lungs...
From: BigOk
25-Sep-18
Nice deer, way to stick with it and make the recovery.
From: Franklin
25-Sep-18
Finey….hate to say it but that was my first reaction. I think the quality of that buck would of been mentioned in the OP.
From: Mark Watkins
25-Sep-18
Congrats and way to stay with him!
What kind of broadhead were you shooting?
Mark
From: deerslayer
25-Sep-18
"I love it. Post a picture with the entrance in the wrong place and then criticize people for giving advice based on the bad info. "
Exactly
From: Single bevel
25-Sep-18
Congrats. When you said the blood was dark, I knew your description with the red dot had to be wrong. Flesh wound blood is not dark. And my opinion on trailing dark blood...don't "stay on him" as some suggested. Dark blood is most likely liver or guts. Either one...if you push that deer you could lose it. Dark blood...back out for 6 hours or more and come back with field dressing gear.
From: Tody
26-Sep-18
Congrats on a nice buck, but it would have been of great benefit for us all to have seen the shot placement photos, and know what organs were hit. Doesn't matter if you hit him somewhere else than what you thought, can happen to all of us in the heat of the moment. Most of these threads end up with no deer found. If I went to all the trouble of finding the deer and taking suggestions from guys here, I would have taken some additional photos to educate us all on things that can happen, it only takes seconds with the phones most of us carry these days. Was the meat in good condition? How long was the deer dead, few hours? How far did it travel from last place you kicked it up? Congrats once again.
From: scentman
26-Sep-18
mfj=mia
From: JL
26-Sep-18
JL's Link
This thread is starting to get funny. I was looking around for a GIF to lighten the moment. I came across a similar type "follow along" thread at Texas Bowhunter titled "Just Shot A Good One!!". It's a long one but some good anatomy pics on there.
From: ELKMAN
26-Sep-18
Yeah at this point I would say MFJ is hiding something as well. MIA= Missing informational aspects
From: scentman
26-Sep-18
The lung video is the bonus to this thread, some great info for sure.
From: MFJ
28-Sep-18
Sorry guys, left for a week long vacation to Sweden, haven't had time to answer your questions. I will address each and every one on my return. I appreciate everyone's input and will do what I can to return the favor. Cheers!
From: Franzen
28-Sep-18
Good attitude. Thanks for coming back. Look forward to another "lesson".
From: Lever Action
28-Sep-18
See!? People need to be less conspiratorial
From: MFJ
07-Oct-18
Here we go, first of all I am not hiding anything, I have posted the truth and admitted my shot placement on the original post was slightly off, not far off like many seem to have wanted it to be. The people who gave advice based on the original post and picture provided much more valuable feedback and advice than those who just assumed I was lying or didn't know what I was talking about. The real world experiences they provided on this thread and in private messages was very similar to what I experienced throughout my recovery of the animal. For those who think there is a possibility that I am not telling the truth about the recovery and if it is the same deer or not, go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better. If you can't take me at my word just because I didn't take pics of the entry/exit after an emotional recovery process then that's your problem, not mine. The quality of the buck had nothing to do with my chances of recovery so that is why I didn't mention it in the original post. Every deer gets the same effort from me whether its a nice buck, fawn, doe, small buck, etc.
From: MFJ
07-Oct-18
With that said here is the last part of the story... After bumping the buck out of a shelter belt the morning after I shot him, we backed out until the next day. We picked up blood where we last saw him enter the woods (about 1/2 mile from where he was bumped). From there it was a fairly slow trailing process as blood was sporadic. We followed blood (without any beds but a few stopping points) for about another 3/8 of a mile through the woods until it led us to a potential river crossing. From there we were not able find anymore blood so we couldn't confirm if he had actually crossed the river or followed it, or potentially turned back. We decided to just start looking and ended up finding him in a thick patch of isolated cover about 300 yards from where we had last blood at the river crossing. It turned out that he did cross the river. I am so thankful we were able to stick with it and recover him! If I missed any important details, please let me know. Thanks
From: ELKMAN
08-Oct-18
How about the meat?
From: Bullhound
08-Oct-18
Congrats on sticking with it and finding that deer. Did you actually have to put a finishing arrow i him? If not, did he die not long before recovery, and you could salvage the meat?
From: Smokey
08-Oct-18
Don't worry about the guys on here thinking you're lying or making stuff up. Some people our born to create turmoil and negativity, that's what they thrive on.
Good job on the recovery, you did a hell of a job.
From: Franzen
08-Oct-18
Odds are the meat was no good, but it's still a worthwhile recovery. The moral of the story is to stick with the effort, and you did well reinforcing that.
From: MFJ
08-Oct-18
Thanks for the support guys. The meat was still good! Temps were cool enough and the coyotes stayed away. He did not require a finishing arrow but not sure how long before we found him he would have expired. We recovered him approximately 25 hours after we bumped him the last time. It appeared that he ran out of gas rather than bedding because his rear legs were doing the splits and you could see a path where he drug himself with his front legs.
From: Bullhound
08-Oct-18
Well, glad you got him and even better you got the meat!
From: ELKMAN
09-Oct-18
That is awesome
From: Bow Bullet
09-Oct-18
Curious what you found as to the hit. Was it right where your red dot in the OP photo showed? What did you hit that was the source of the blood loss? Couldn't have been much for it to keep going for approximately a day and a half. Props to you for your persistence and successful recovery!
From: MFJ
10-Oct-18
Hit was a couple inches further back and slightly higher than original post. Nothing more than guts.
From: LKH
10-Oct-18
Really surprised he lasted that long with guts involved. Peritonitis is what seems to kill them. As I've posted about 3 gut shot elk being alive 15+ hours later shows how tough they are. Those however had a lot more guts severed but even then 2 required a finishing arrow even though they were pretty much immobile.
Two things I get from this is we seldom, without video, know exactly where we hit and trailing a gut shot animal in 4 hours as some prefer is likely to lead to a lost animal.
