Black Gold Sights - Pure Gold
Center Shot adjustment
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Paul@thefort 26-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 26-Sep-18
badbull 26-Sep-18
x-man 27-Sep-18
Ermine 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 27-Sep-18
12yards 27-Sep-18
x-man 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 27-Sep-18
x-man 27-Sep-18
12yards 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 27-Sep-18
osageghost 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 27-Sep-18
smarba 27-Sep-18
x-man 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 27-Sep-18
JTV 27-Sep-18
Scar Finga 27-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 27-Sep-18
Shawn 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 27-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 28-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 28-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 28-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 28-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 28-Sep-18
JTV 28-Sep-18
skipmaster1 29-Sep-18
Russell 29-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 29-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 29-Sep-18
JTV 29-Sep-18
JTV 29-Sep-18
JTV 29-Sep-18
JTV 29-Sep-18
Ambush 29-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 29-Sep-18
Ucsdryder 29-Sep-18
JTV 29-Sep-18
spike78 29-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 29-Sep-18
JTV 29-Sep-18
Russell 29-Sep-18
hardcore247 29-Sep-18
Russell 29-Sep-18
skipmaster1 29-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 30-Sep-18
Russell 30-Sep-18
Paul@thefort 30-Sep-18
Wood 01-Oct-18
Buglmin 01-Oct-18
x-man 02-Oct-18
Buglmin 04-Oct-18
From: Paul@thefort
26-Sep-18
How important is center shot on a Compound bow?

Does it have to be exactly in line with the nocking point and down the arrow shaft?

Or can it be slightly off line right or left slightly?

From: Ucsdryder
26-Sep-18
Depends on the bow . If you can yoke tune, set and forget it. If you can’t yoke tune you might need to move the rest a little left or right to tune.

From: badbull
26-Sep-18
Paul.....I am no expert but what I have done over the years to check my center shot is .shoot my 20 yd pin on a tall Target at 20 yds. I then walk back at 30, 40, 50 and so on shooting all ranges with my 20 yd. pin . If my compond center shot is not spot on the arrows will form a line left or right and I then adjust my rest accordingly......Bob

From: x-man
27-Sep-18
Yes, centershot [adjustment] is very important.

No,... it rarely ends up exactly "in-line" with the string.

In order for it to line up exactly in the center of everything you would have to eliminate the cable guard and shoot through the center of the cables. Then you would have to have the contact point of the grip in the center of the bow both horizontally and vertically. Then you would have to put the nocking point exactly in the center of the string, the rest exactly in the center, and then... here comes the tricky part... you would have to shoot through the center of your bow hand.

This is why each bow tunes different. The farther each bows geometry is off from "perfect center" the more "tuning" we have to do to compensate. Short bows without cable yokes are almost impossible to tune effectively. I will never own a bow shorter than 33-34" that doesn't have yokes to help "compensate" for the torque that has been engineered into the bow design. Bows longer than 34" are much more forgiving as they are less bound-up by tight lateral string and cable angles.

I hope that answers more questions than it may have created.

From: Ermine
27-Sep-18
With my Hoyt’s I pretty much eye ball the center shot and put it right down the shelf and then yoke tune from there

From: Paul@thefort
27-Sep-18
Good info. What is interesting is when I use a center shot tool, the arrow shaft is a quarter inch, slightly off dead center to the left, but when I line up the arrow shaft with the center line of the grip (Mathews single cam bow) and the limbs, and the string,the shaft is lined up exactly. I may be able to adjust the drop a way rest slightly if needed, but there is not a lot of rooms for much adjustment. I have paper tuned this bow and get decent shaft/fletching holes.

What brought about this subject is that my BHs and FPs do not hit the same. (OLD STORY FOR SURE) ( 64# , 340 gold tips, 125 VAP vented bhs. ) Actually they are 4 inchs off. When I get the FPs to shoot dead on, the BHs hit 4 inch to the right. To "fix" the problem, I just adjust the sight to allow the BHs to hit dead on. Seems to work just fine but then when one practice with FPs, the FPs hit, as predicted, 4 inchs off. I get good arrow flight with both FTs and BHs.

I have read all of the posts about how to adjust the rest to allow both arrow impacts the same but I have not been able to achieve this exact impact for both. I am sure there are some compound bows (even BHs) that do not allow that exact impact regardless of adjustments so I may just have to continue to "adjust the sight" as I have in the past. Actually I get the same results shooting a 125 gr Thunderhead, ie, 4 inch off.

I try a few more adjustments and "walk backs" and if that does not "solve" the issue, I will just continue to adjust the sight from FPs to BHs and then back to FPs when needed. Actually the mechanical BHs I use for turkeys and geese, shoot just like the FPs.

thanks for the replies, Paul

From: 12yards
27-Sep-18
With the Elites I have, I set CS at what the manufacturer recommends. Then I shoot BS and FP and move the rest to get them hitting together at 20 yards. When this is done, my fixed broadheads have hit with my FP out to 60 yards (all the further I practice). If the centershot is way one way or the other, Elites need to be shimmed to get things right. But if you can keep the rest within the manufacturers range, I've had no issues.

From: x-man
27-Sep-18
Paul, I don't know if this is any comfort to you or not but, what you have is very common with the Mathews solo cam bows. Especially the older ones, and especially if it has a roller cable guard and the factory grip. Despite marketing success the roller cable guards are a bad idea.

Torque is causing your grouping issue. And it usually isn't all the fault of the shooter. An aftermarket grip and some top yoke tuning can help greatly but may not solve your problem completely. If I had you here I could try to re-train your shooting form to help as well, but that is easier said than done with shooters who have been doing this as long as you have.

From: Paul@thefort
27-Sep-18

Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
Rob, yes, this is an older Mathews Reezen 6.5, with factory grip and roller cable guard. I will try to "tune" it the best I can to see what slight adjustments I can make that might make a difference. I have to be very careful not to over hand torquet the bow as this surely causes an issue of bad shot placement. Appreciate the input. my best, Paul

From: x-man
27-Sep-18
If you would litter train your cat...you wouldn't have to take it out in the cold to pee.

From: 12yards
27-Sep-18
Didn't the Reezen have some excessive cam lean issues? Could that be part of the problem?

From: Paul@thefort
27-Sep-18
Steve, yes it did and I noticed that when my friend sold it to me for 100$ all tricked out. I took it to a Mathews deal and they sent and replace both limbs for free. Seems ok now.

Rob, THAT IS NOT ME IN THE PICTURE WITH THE BOBCAT. A bowsite.com hiccup.

From: osageghost
27-Sep-18
Looks more like a lynx than a bobcat

From: Paul@thefort
27-Sep-18
yep, a lynx

From: smarba
27-Sep-18
Per x-man I'm going to have a shoot-through hole surgically created in the web of my bow hand...

From: x-man
27-Sep-18
Ya know those dumb looking ear rings that are inserted in the ear lobe? They just keep putting larger and larger ones as time goes by. I'm thinking we could do that in our bow hands. We could then just insert a WB disc insert.

I suppose smarba is going to want royalties though now.

From: Paul@thefort
27-Sep-18
ok, so I have spent the last 3 hours adjusting the rest and the sight to try to get the fixed VAP BH and the FPs together but I just end up with the BHs hitting 4 inchs to the left of the sighted in FPs. I have reversed the process and still get a 4 inch difference. So I will just returned to my previous sighting in procedure and just sight in my BHs to hit dead center.

From: JTV
27-Sep-18
11/16 - 13/16 is the starting point from riser to center of arrow .... start at 11/16 and work from there ...11/16 usually works with most dropaways .... dont know about Biscuits..

From: Scar Finga
27-Sep-18
I think most people over think this. I do my best to make make my BH and FP hit in the same spot, but it doesn't always work. I am way more concerned about my BH vs FP as I don't shoot many 3D courses anymore. I always practice with old BH and don't fret or a few inches with my FP's. If I want perfection with FP's then I tune for that. Some bows are a PITA to say the least!!!! And others are like butter to tune. I have hand torque issues from injuries and I know this, so I tune accordingly. Don't obsess about it, you don't go out and try to shoot at the professional level, You Are A Bowhunter and a Killing Machine! Go Shoot, kill and have fun! When it quits being fun, I'll quit.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Scar.

From: Ucsdryder
27-Sep-18
If they aren’t hitting the same place I assume there is an issue which likely is affecting arrow flight and momentum. Paul, try turning the limbs down a couple turns if it is maxed. Or the other way around if it isn’t maxed. See if spine is an issue. Or if you have different weight tips try that.

From: Shawn
27-Sep-18
Depends, I shot fingers for years and I did not want the compound set up dead center. Shooting a drop away or biscuit than you want it centered on the riser but as has been said that is rarely centered on te string due to off set cable guards and such. Shawn

From: Paul@thefort
27-Sep-18
OK, just decided to take it to the local Mathews dealer for a fine tuning. Will be interested to see what they might come up with. Thanks for the replies. Paul

From: Paul@thefort
28-Sep-18
Ok just returned from the Mathews dealer and had the bow paper tuned and yolk adjusted. After all of the adjustments, especially the yolk on the single cam.. I got bullet holes in the paper. The adjustment on the yolk seem fairly radical and the dealer stated he would not go any farther with adjustments with the yolk. Later I shot at 20 yards and after sight adjustments hit the 10 rings the last three arrows.

I had high hopes when I got home that my BHs would hit exactly where the FTs hit. I was somewhat disappointed when they did not. Originally they shot 4 inchs to the right of the FTs. After the paper tuning,etc, they shot three inch higher and two inch to the right.

So while the paper tuning did help a better arrow flight, it did not solve the FT/BH issue.

So I will still have to adjust the sight to bring the BH to the correct hitting mark, ie, the 10 ring.

I could have saved $30 for the tuning up and $20 in gas and just left it the way I had it before. my best, Paul

From: Ucsdryder
28-Sep-18
Try moving the rest a little now. And if that doesn’t work try adjusting poundage. It’s worth it to get them hitting together. It’ll make life easier in the long run.

From: Paul@thefort
28-Sep-18
I did adjust the rest a little to the left but now the FT are hitting two inches to the left but the BH are right on. I also adjusted for the height difference but now the FT are hitting low. Very frustrating. I have to believe that some bows will not shoot FTs, and fixed BH the same. I can not figure why the BH are shoot higher than the FT now, as before they were only shooting 4 inch to the right. The nock point was not changed or was the rest raised any.

From: Ucsdryder
28-Sep-18
Paul only thing else that might help is having someone else shoot your bow. I shot all summer and all of a sudden my prime centergy was shooting arrows like wet noodles. I started checking the bow assuming something moved. Finally I started messing with my grip. Somehow I had changed my grip one day. Not sure if it could be a grip issue?

Nothing is more frustrating to me than tuning a bow!!! I feel for you!

From: Paul@thefort
28-Sep-18
Ok, made a few slight adjustments and got the BH to shoot good out to 30 yards. I did not like the yoke adjustment that was made so I eased up on that adjustment when I came in and then and then went to the indoor range and shot FP. They shot two inch to the left and slightly low. I think I am getting closer. Will be interesting how the BH shoot tomorrow with the adjustment to the yoke that I made. More to come.

From: JTV
28-Sep-18
Your not adjusting your sight as your doing this I hope .. only make the final sight adjustment after the two converge ..

From: skipmaster1
29-Sep-18

skipmaster1's embedded Photo
skipmaster1's embedded Photo
This picture shows how little it can take on rest adjustment to make a big difference. Less than the width of a single hash mark. That’s 3/4” electrical tape and I walk back as far as I possibly can.

From: Russell
29-Sep-18
Skipmaster1,

That's pretty impressive illustrating the slight lateral adjustment to the rest.

Paul, The standard guidance is to make vertical adjustment/corrections first. Then make the horizontal ones next, and only make one adjustment at a time.

Are your field points and broadheads grouping (in seperate groups)? Or do you have arrows that are fliers?

Good luck with your tuning.

From: Paul@thefort
29-Sep-18
separate groups no fliers

From: Paul@thefort
29-Sep-18

Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
BH on rt, FTs on left on in center prior to adjustments, center shot and yoke
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
BH on rt, FTs on left on in center prior to adjustments, center shot and yoke
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
BH hitting 4 inch to right
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
BH hitting 4 inch to right
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
This morning, BH on rt. (shot twice in same place. Getting closer. I know this separation will expand as I move out farther in range. What suggestions to bring them closer.?
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
This morning, BH on rt. (shot twice in same place. Getting closer. I know this separation will expand as I move out farther in range. What suggestions to bring them closer.?

From: JTV
29-Sep-18
move rest in 1/16-1/32" increments

From: JTV
29-Sep-18

From: JTV
29-Sep-18

From: JTV
29-Sep-18

From: Ambush
29-Sep-18
My back up bow is a Mathews Drenalin solo cam. I have it tuned for me and FP‘s and broadheads hit together. Bullet holes in paper.

I lent it to a friend for moose season and we were shooting broadheads the other day to verify. Slick Tricks hit three inches right, at twenty yards, for him. But still right on for me. A couple of small rest adjustments put him within and inch.

So bow and shooter combo’s can be very individualistic.

From: Paul@thefort
29-Sep-18

Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
THree hours later I again shot FTs (on right) and BH on left. Both centered on the +. Shot at 20 yards. Will follow directions provided youtube videos. thanks, Paul
Paul@thefort's embedded Photo
THree hours later I again shot FTs (on right) and BH on left. Both centered on the +. Shot at 20 yards. Will follow directions provided youtube videos. thanks, Paul

From: Ucsdryder
29-Sep-18
Paul how old are your strings and cables? Could be a stretch issue?

Also in one post you said Broadheads we’re hitting right and on another you said they were hitting left. Is that true or did I misread?

From: JTV
29-Sep-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
move in very very small increments ..... it dont take much ... your BH is planning to the left ..... more rest to the right .. do not touch the sight till both have same poi ...

From: spike78
29-Sep-18
Paul, maybe consider changing broadheads to a smaller profile such as a Slick Trick?

From: Paul@thefort
29-Sep-18
I had a senior moment.. IN the picture above, the Bh is on the right. NOT left. I will try in very small increments, move the rest to the left towards the FP on the left.

Spike, you are mostly correct. I bet if I shot mechanical BHs, I would not have this issue as well as shooting a small profile BH. I bet even the Magnus 4 bl also. Lots of things to consider. Just may end up, as before, sight in the current BH for hunting. Actually now, the BH are hitting the 10 ring ( out to 30 yards with good arrow flight) with the last adjustment but they are still a couple of inches from the FP. As was stated, some BH may not be tune-able to FPs. Maybe some compound bow may not be tune able to FP and BH.

From: JTV
29-Sep-18
for crap and giggles, if you have access to a Slick Mag, Standard or Viper, try it just to see ... esp. the Viper Tricks... they fly awesome !!

From: Russell
29-Sep-18
Paul,

Do your arrows Snap-on to the string or do they snugly fit?

If they Snap-on that's a not a good thing.

Use the technique that Byron Ferguson mentions. The arrow should fit snugly to hold itself when held vertically but not so strong that the arrow will hold the bow.

you being a traditionlist as well, you know of Byron Ferguson.

From: hardcore247
29-Sep-18
I made a move from Hoyt to Matthews this summer and have been dealing with something similar. Finally got tired of it and shot mechanicals. Bowshop is convinced it all has to do with my grip. At first I called BS as I have never had problems with Hoyts. But the more I tinkered the more I am a believer that I need to adjust my grip to get a Matthews to shoot.

XMan what after market grips do you recommend for the Matthews Halon?

From: Russell
29-Sep-18

Russell's Link
I have the Van Handle Death-grip on both of my Bowtech bows.

I've tried one other torqueless grip. Didn't like it.

The Death-grip is tops in my book. Wont own a bow without one.

From: skipmaster1
29-Sep-18
I’ve taken all the grips off my hours for years and just shot off a bare thin riser and make sure you keep it out on the thumb side of your lifeline with a proper 45ish degree grip

From: Paul@thefort
30-Sep-18
interesting about the grip. Even the Mathews dealer who paper tuned the bow stated the wooden grips suck, ie, too large. I have a big hand and also use the life line hold and a loose grip when shooting. I agree, this bow is grip sensitive.

Russell, snug to snap on nock. I will double check and if needed will in- large the nock space to see if it makes a difference.

From: Russell
30-Sep-18
Paul,

Snug is good, snap is not. In my book.

I use a smooth pair of needle-nose pliers to flatten the serving. Helps on some serving material.

From: Paul@thefort
30-Sep-18
Ok guys, thanks for all of your input. I have come to the conclusion that this bow can not be adjusted to bring the FPs and fixed BHs together. Now I am sure a mechanical BH will work as I have tried that with success but I do not use mechanical BHs for big game. I would also bet that some smaller profile fixed BH might bring them closer but I will be sticking with the 125 gr vented VAP.

So, currently I am happy with the arrow's performance with the VAP BH and they are shooting well out to 30 yards and hitting the 10 ring. The FPs are only 2.5 inch to the left and when needed for turkeys and geese, ie, (mechanical BH/FTs) I will adjust the sight to dead center.

I am also sure there are bow/arrow/BH combinations that are easy to adjust but what I have and experienced, is not so easy with my setup.

Thanks all for the input. Now I am looking forward to my next deer hunt in Nebraska coming up in a few weeks. my best, Paul

From: Wood
01-Oct-18
Paul, If your BH hit right of FP that means you have a tail left at launch. So you need to twist the left yoke or move the rest to the RIGHT. If you have a high BH impact, you Have a tail low at launch and need to move the nock point up or the rest down. BH will catch air and send your arrow in the opposite direction that the tail is tearing. I've watched Dudely's BH tuning video and sorry to say, he is a great teacher but he is just flat wrong on his windage adjustment. Following the field point with rest/ nock point adjustments is an old wives tail that has been around forever. I think it started with Easton's tuning guide with adjustment for finger shooters but nothing for drop away/ release shooters, and the 2 adjustments are opposite for fingers/release shooters.

From: Buglmin
01-Oct-18
Paul, You're a stickbow shooter and understand bare shaft tuning from a stickbow. Why don't you bare shaft tune? I bare shaft tune every bow, and the broadhead hitting right sounds like a stiff shaft. Bare shaft tuning will show you if you are having spine issues, just like a stickbow.

From: x-man
02-Oct-18
But he's not shooting a stick bow! You don't have to shoot around the arrow shelf on a compound bow, therefore you don't need or want the arrow shaft to flex out of a compound bow.

From: Buglmin
04-Oct-18
Bare shaft tuning shows you if the shafts are weak or stiff. Most guys just adjust arrow rest or move their sights. Weak bare shafts will still impact left and stiff will impact right. Once an arrow is through paradox, spine still effects arrow flight. And most arrows are done with paradox within 12 feet. X-man, if what you're saying was true, then why would bare shaft tuning matter in stick bows also? Just like a compound, we can use different different thickness of shelf material to move weaken or stiffen an arrow. A lot of top 3D shooters carry a bare shaft in thrum quiver to make sure nothing has changed and they are still getting perfect bare shaft flight.

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