Could go on a lot of hunts for $1700! I used to play this upgrade my bow every year BS, I realized I can't shoot a bow better than what I have and it's not a Hoyt....stick to one you are confident in and put your money towards your next hunt.
I remember too, it was a horrible experience mainly due to a crappy dealer. I'm kicking around buying a different bow but if I do it will be a carryover or possibly lightly used bow from the classifieds on one of the sites, same as the last 3.
I only shoot Hoyt and only have for 34 years but I don’t buy them the year they are released. New in box a year or two post release on eBay will save you 40-60%. Picked up a new in box carbon defiant last November for 780.00. One year removed from release
People will be getting 2018 redwrx models for $800-1000 over the next few months vs $1500
Midwest, I don’t think these are Hoyt haters, I’m certainly not. I have shot Hoyt off/on for 25 years and am currently shooting Hoyt. The issue is their insanity pricing. As someone pointed out, roughly $2300 for a bow and accessories, plus tax. Some can afford that. I can but it makes no sense at all, so I won’t.
I'll keep shooting my 2008 Diamond Black Ice. When it comes time for a new compound, if ever, I have no loyalties and will shoot them all and get a mid level bow. Hoyt is not the only company releasing crazy priced, best bow we ever built bows each year. They will sell, and repeat process next year.
I’m sure the margins are not that large after looking into materials. machinery and labor. BUT! As mentioned earlier the 10 pages of “pro” shooters. And you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting someone you know that gets a bow at wholesale because they have a “pro” deal. I am guilty of falling for the BS hype. I read reviews to get opinions first then go shoot. Which is a huge mistake. Should shoot them first then buy what fits. I have had every new Hoyt carbon bow for the last 3 generations. This year I fell for the Mathews Triax hype. They all do what they say. BUT after all these must have bows and upgrades I still shoot at the same level of skill. My skill is based on my practice and learning. Not the bow. After the hype and self induced “I shoot this bow better BS” wears off it’s still the same level of skill. By the way my Triax did not get me an elk this year so I’m looking for a new bow that will :)
What is the old saying; "fools are easily parted from their money". I was one for many years; just had to have a new bow every year. This thinking enables bow co. to keep raising their prices. For me I finally realized a new bow after the 1st year is just another bow; nothing special at all.
I shot Hoyt for years. I think they have the best limbs & riser on the market. Great fit & finish. However, like many on this site, I've gone to Bowtech because I prefer twin yokes. If and when Hoyt goes to a twin yoke system, I'll give them a serious look.
I'm with Bou'bound; I haven't bought a new bow retail in a dozen years. I buy them new, in the box, on ebay after the hype & marketing dust has settled. Yup, save 40-60%.
Elkman, When the new ones come out give us your honest opinion if there any better than the Redwrx. Was going to by the Redwrx but can they make'em any better. Always shot HOYT upgrade every 5-6 yrs. Thanks
I will Bighorn for sure. I have very limited knowledge this year on what all is coming. They are REALLY being hush hush about things this year. I know there will be a 34 inch and a 30 inch bow and that the Turbo will also be offered in the aluminum line again. Outside of that I'm just not sure what's coming. I know there is one rumored to be in the line up that I don't love at all... But we will see.
I almost guarantee you that the "deal" all the Hoyt shooters get isn't crazy. There's most likely a few big names like Bill Winke that get one sent to their door pro bono, but past that it's most likely a thousand willing volunteers willing to sell their soul for a window decal.
There are multiple levels of sponsorship. "Big names" get paid by the mfg to shoot a certain bow. That's how we got to the point where it became a full time job for some. Every decent size mfg has "factory shooters" that get multiple bows for free as well as a stipend to attend shoots. All the reps have shooters in their territory that also get product for free, and all the shops have "shop shooters" that usually pay dealer cost for the bow. The multi layer sponsorship is pretty much the same for all the name brands; Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE.
The public release date was changed to Nov 1 to ensure all dealers had the 2019 product on hand prior to that release.
Factory shooters from the big companies get two bows a year free. Rep shooters have to pay for their bows, but get them super cheap. We only get one bow a year, and it's the bow they want us to shoot. Hoyt is being super secretive about their releases. No one has heard much, not even the reps. I know they did some product testing in Utah this fall, but they bows were kept under wraps. We'll know soon enough.
If you only get one rep bow, take what he gives you, and have to pay for it, that's between you and your rep. It's not that way across the board. The reps went over the 2019 product line at last weeks sales meeting.
Its not just the $1700 bows, sights that start over $100, arrows for several hundred a dozen, $400 jackets ? I guess this is becoming a rich mans sport. The really good thing about the modern bows is they will last for a long time, like in long enough that a poor old soul just has to wait long enough for the price to drop to a level that is reasonable and affordable. Its your money, do what you wish with it.
The date got pushed to Nov. 1rst, and I have absolutely no idea why. There is no cross "gun" coming from Hoyt. They are an "archery" company. The one I was referring to will be a more of a "toy" than a "bow"... Nuff said
Thank you elk man. So They rotate in the opposite direction correct? or is that a typhoon? Or just a different name for the same thing. Either way should be fast! I have loved all of the last 3 Generations of Carbon Hoyts. This one should be another good bow I’m sure. I am currently shooting a Mathews but have always liked Hoyts.
If my 75 dollar bear grizzly kills big game and my 400 longbow kills, why do folks feel the,need to spend 1700 on a bow? What does it do that my bows won't? It's your money and if you feel a 1700 bow makes you a better Hunter then by all means, but PT Barnum was oh so right many many years ago.
I really have never understood why the only real price hangup people have is with bows. Many have no issue paying $200 for a release, $150 for a quiver, $100 for (3) broadheads or $300 for a set of camo pants but they get bent at $1,400 bows.
Bottom line....if and when I want a new bow I will pay whatever they cost. Just like tags.
Bowfreak, Nobody is buying top of the line priced accessory's and not putting it on an over priced bow. However, people do in fact choose not to buy either. Those are the one's questioning the $1700 price tag.
Bows will sell for whatever prices the market accepts, otherwise the manufacturer goes out of business. It's the overall market that matters, not a few guys carping.Everything goes up in price. My dad could've bought a new 1965 Corvette for 4100. Seemed super high to him at the time. Now of course, that sounds laughably low. Just like today's bow prices will seem laughably low as time passes.Personally I'm not in the market for a new bow....I usually get a new one about every 3-4 years. Which means the occasional purchase of an expensive bow is only a tiny percentage of the overall hunting budget, considering all other hunt costs like gear, clothes, vehicles, travel, licenses, NR apps, etc.
Bowfreak, let's get back on track. I'm thinking you misunderstood my point. To clarify, my first post in this thread was me trying to understand why the bow is that cost. Components used in any bow made today are cheap. Leaving me to suspect regardless of whats being claimed here, I doubt margins are small. It's my understanding that bow companies require dealers to charge certain prices. Which to me, means margins are much higher then predicted.
Also, being curious to the price doesn't mean I would never buy one. But, it does mean I personally have no intentions of buying it at that price without justification of my curiosity. Saying so doesn't make me bitchy, worried about where others spend their money, or ridiculing anyone who does choose to buy one or any of the high priced accessory's.
I never said I wouldn't buy any of the higher priced accessory's either. Only pointed out it really is pretty simple to rationalize that not many people are buying a $400 economy bow and outfitting it with a tight spot quiver, Montana Black Gold sights, Easton dangerous game arrows, $33 apiece broad heads, a high dollar stabilizer, while using a $150 release. It is what it is and, nothing about questioning someone's personal choices. It has nothing to do with worrying about those that do different. I'm still confused where that train of thought is coming from.
I don't know why people care what other people spend on anything, much less a bow. Everybody's different when it comes to this stuff. Some guys just take hunting far more serious than others, and don't want their equipment to cost them hard earned animals at the moment of truth because of poor quality/design... ;-)
What I wander is why does anything but saying, “Hoyt is the greatest, most economical, most dependable, bestest bow in the word”, cause so much worry among its consumers. Buy what every you want. But, discussing the why’s of the price is not judging how anyone spends their own money.
Profits are not small either because they aren’t selling hundreds of thousands of these things.
Everyone always says margins are slim. That's cause generally, they are. If any company has large margins, someone else will come do what they are doing for less. That's the reality of the free economy. If you think Hoyt is making a $1,700 bow for $200 worth of components it isn't happening. Cost of labour, components, and materials only go up, not to mention your indirect costs, overhead, advertising, R&D etc
Like I said, if there was heaps of money left over, there would be heaps of new bow companies, and they'd be cutting out Hoyt's market share.
And there's a difference between profits and margins. Margins were mentioned earlier, now profit is mentioned^^^^^. Yes, they might be very profitable due to large volume even though the margin is thin on an individual item. If you don't believe me, hire their engineers, buy materials from their suppliers, get a grant, invest in some equipment, and sell the latest greatest bow for $700 :)
The companies selling $700 bows are making their parts on a $70,000 Haas. Hoyt was using Mori's when I went thru their plant; the same nv5000 apc I had as well as some NH horizontals. My NV was $240,000.
If any of you can get a tour through the Hoyt manufacturing facility/process, do it. You won't be disappointed. Anyone asking about my so called "take hunting serious" post above obviously doesn't know when there is a worm, a hook, a line and a sinker put in front of them... LMAO
I did NOT think the REDWRX Carbon RX1 was a "game changer". In fact I sold it shortly after buying it. I may be the minority on this one, but I preferred my Carbon Defiant by a long shot and am still shooting that 2 year old Defiant. :) We will see what they bring to the table this year. I really wanted to shoot a Bowtech Reign 7 last year. In fact I ordered one, but it took so long, I finally just cancelled the order and bought the REDWRX. The pic posted above is intriguing, but if it doesn't have a 7 inch brace height and isn't at least 33" a to a, I'm not interested.
Does he anchor that sling behind his elbow??? Or does it double as a shoulder sling?
I shot the turbo 2018 wrx and it was pleasant, never wouldve guessed it had such a short brace height. But I think companies will be able to get away w/ shorter BraceH when using all these fancy string stoppers. I wish I had a string stop on my old hoyt smoke, that thing would slap my wrist.. almost to my palm! If I wore a watch I'd probably blowed up some strings.
Use of the term "game changer" in modern bows is mainly just salesman talk. But if there was any "game changer" aspect of the RX-1 Turbo, it was the tune-ability for FBBH. Very responsive (and predictable) to tiny center-shot moves, without the need to fool around as much with cam lean. And it was a bonus that the draw cycle and valley on the turbo were just as good as my CST. A dramatic improvement over the previous 2-3 year's models. That's why I bought one. The only improvement that I could see on the 2019's would be somehow quieting them more, or making them shoot faster without sacrificing forgiveness or draw cycle.
The very annoying habit many owners have is they can’t say “bow”! It’s always “..I grabbed my Hoyt...”, or “ I I slowly raised my Hoyt...”. or “I’m packing a rifle, but I really hope to get it done with The Hoyt”.
I am always amazed at what people expect with new bows. We are actually past the point of incremental improvements on bows, we are now at minuscule improvements. Anyone tuning in to new bow releases to see even a 20fps speed gain is going to be disappointed.
It sure looks nice in all black. I like the string dampeners. If Mathews would copy that, it would be the perfect bow.
Maybe the guys from Hoyt and Mathews can get together and determine the weight forward and cam design that Mathews has been using and, Hoyt is following g along with, would be a good swap out for the string dampener technology. :^)
In all seriousness, it looks like a very well thought out bow.
love the looks and specs of the rx3 ulttra. If they had brought that out last year I'm pretty sure I would have bought one. I ended up going with a centergy though instead. Gonna be hard/impossible to justify new bows 2 years in a row
I can't for the life of me understand the 30" and under bows honestly. things feel like a toy. It'll be the RX3 Ultra or RX1 for me (if I don't find a spectacular deal on a Carbon Spyder iteration that is).
Hoyt's next advertisement will read something like the following:
"Only through Hoyt's innovation, the inverted cross parallel hollow carbon tubing that balances perfectly on the copied Mathews chassis, will keep you hands warmer, for longer, all through the new adjustable hand warming bio diverse compensating grip. It simply is the results of superior engineering and Mathews innovation. Period.
The RX3, with its weight forward balance, copied directly from Mathews designs, is guaranteed to be as dead in the hand as the 2 foot Triax. Our all new Carbon parallel cross designed riser is just as quiet with the 8 ounces of dampeners applied, as any competitors bow. Its the best we at Hoyt have ever built. Period
Hoyt's new patent pending wheeled cable guard was something Mathews went away from years ago. But, by applying Hoyts all new design, we were able to intricate it into this state of the art, game changing bow for Hoyt's customers. It simply is the pinnacle of what we have ever done here at Hoyt. Period.
We at Hoyt are proud to introduce to you the most completely copied, Mathews prototype, minus the special carbon bi flex, cross parallel, hollow tubed carbon frame, we have ever designed and made. So go to your nearest dealer in March to shoot the all new RX3. And, catch us if you can. Period."
Midwest you know they look very similar. Come on! If you threw in a 2017 pse with the roller attached to the riser you’d have the parents of the ugly child! A triax and a pse Carbon stealth got drunk in a bar...9 months later look what popped out!
It's early but the word on the streets is that it will be out with a modified cam system that is smoother and more efficient than anything they have ever designed and it will be the quietest, most vibration-free, rugged, and hard hitting bow in any line. The new cable roller system will be a bar slide which will have been proven to be an upgrade over rollers.
There parallel track tube carbon technology will be advanced into version 2.0 and riser balance will be tweaked just a bit by using 75 hand laid carbon inferfaces vs. only 50 on the new 2019 RX3. With an upgrade to vibration-dampening NAVACOM rubber handle material, (patent pending) the torque reduction will be noticeable as well. Basically it will just a a bit better all around.
most importantly they are going to offer it in a retro camo option called Treebark.
Don't get me wrong, the 2019 is excellent, but with these enhancements just 12 months away I am going to wait even though the SRP will be $1,899.
The 2020 RX5 will be the “Best bow they have ever (engineered). They can’t quite pull off the manufacturering part but they at least (engineered) it to be the best ever:). Nice legalize lawyer sales talk.
bighorn- I'm not impressed with the new line at all. I thought they needed to either address their cam system over all, or go back to modules. And their aluminum lines weight is leaving a big hole in their line up. But to be fair I haven't spent any real time with them. (I will say they are VERY quiet and shock free) But I may play with some other opportunities this year. We will see.
I agree Elkman, I have had many Hoyt bows over the years. 3 iterations of the carbon bows. It seems like they need to go poach some engineers or creative people from Just about any other mfg. or one from each. I’m sure these are “nice” bows. Just not leading, cutting edge. They are almost a Parity of themselves. I look at them and it’s like someone just copy and pasted parts onto it. And the gangley 90s chunks of rubber are ridiculously ugly and have been removed from many truly engineered bows.
Interesting.... so that hole shot expanding and contracting during the draw/ shot cycle coupled with thermal expansion effects on material volume and durometer of the elastomer will allow the strings working length to change DURING the shot and AFTER tuning and setup. BRILLIANT.
Seriously though.... if you factor two of these expanding and contracting even marginally, your string length is changing....how do you think this effect nock travel, tune, consistency etc. I'd be curious to know!
I've asked this before without an answer, but is there ANY other company that comes close to conducting that many dry fires for their testing? Hoyt may not necessarily be leading/bleeding edge, but their limbs & carbon riser provide me with a lot of confidence...
Seriously... They just up the price another $1000 bucks. It's the hunting industry. People will pay whatever it takes to have an advantage over their buddies or the rest of the general hunting population. Pure Genius! I've always said,, when I retire from actual work I am going to create a product (that is great quality!!) and double the price of the next closest dollar amount. Just watch em' fly off the shelves!
I watch these new Hoyt threads every year. I've shot Hoyts almost exclusively for probably 30 years. (except for that 8 months in 1994 when I went rogue and walked around with a Mathews and my arrows lost their way....). I love my Hoyts. Always have stayed in tune. Industrial strength. You can use them to dig a trench around the tent and they will still shoot where aimed....
I am shooting a 2007/8 Katera. Aside from every other year string changes and some accessory changes, that thing is as it was the day I bought it, plus tons of dings and dents. Its fallen 15', been kicked by a horse right on the limb pocket and still shoots to the max abilities of my limitations.
I dont care what they cost, if I liked it, I would buy it. I dont even want to shoot it! Thats an ugly mofo! Sorry Hoyt and ELKMAN! whats with all the rubber junk hanging off that thing? They should call it the RX french tickler special. What happens to all that when it starts to shrink and lose its dampening properties? another $500 to replace all the rubbers?
I believe I'm in the market for a Bowtech, if my 10 year old bow breaks down.....
RX-3 looks good. I like the ATA, limb angle, non-attached limb dampeners, adjustable grip, and half pound weight savings over the aluminum version. I am curious if the new cam design really does even out cable torque/cam lean. This all said Hoyt must spend a lot on marketing, it was tough to read through all the awesomeness.
Storm...another word for gray. Just like Slate, Granite, Shadow, Lead...
Yawn. Not sure what the attraction is with solid color bows. Or clothing. The more I can get my gear to break up any form the better. I could care less the color of bow: I spray it with FLAT paint in random swatches. Little hard to swallow doing that to a $2K brand new bow...but that's why I buy used :o)
Shot all the new hoyts today .... imo horrible rough draw, horrible spongy back wall (none), valley mehhh, didn’t hold on target well for me,,,, but good points was at the shot with very minimal vibration and pretty quiet. For the cost and all the hype again I was let down with hoyts. There’s a lot better bows out there for a better more affordable cost. Just my .02
I would run the factory threads if I were getting one. BTW: The when set up properly the back wall on these bows are very solid. Anyone who was concerned with shot noise and vibration last year will be very pleased this year.