Mathews Inc.
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Contributors to this thread:
Smokey 15-Oct-18
Smokey 15-Oct-18
orionsbrother 15-Oct-18
smarba 15-Oct-18
rallison 15-Oct-18
MK111 15-Oct-18
Ucsdryder 15-Oct-18
lv2bohunt 15-Oct-18
smarba 15-Oct-18
spike78 15-Oct-18
Dale06 15-Oct-18
Salagi 15-Oct-18
Pat Lefemine 15-Oct-18
RK 15-Oct-18
marktm250 15-Oct-18
Zbone 15-Oct-18
kentuckbowhnter 15-Oct-18
skookumjt 15-Oct-18
Grunter 15-Oct-18
GF 15-Oct-18
jdrdeerslayer 15-Oct-18
Franklin 15-Oct-18
huntskifishcook 15-Oct-18
Too Many Bows Bob 16-Oct-18
Zbone 16-Oct-18
wild1 16-Oct-18
GF 16-Oct-18
loprofile 16-Oct-18
Ollie 16-Oct-18
TD 16-Oct-18
Chief 419 16-Oct-18
Tonybear61 17-Oct-18
GotBowAz 17-Oct-18
GotBowAz 17-Oct-18
TrapperKayak 17-Oct-18
Kevin Dill 17-Oct-18
Dave 17-Oct-18
Ken Moody Safaris 17-Oct-18
Trial153 17-Oct-18
Catscratch 17-Oct-18
Steve 17-Oct-18
Zbone 17-Oct-18
Ken Moody Safaris 17-Oct-18
Pat Lefemine 17-Oct-18
Boatman71 17-Oct-18
grossklw 17-Oct-18
320 bull 17-Oct-18
TrapperKayak 17-Oct-18
Catscratch 17-Oct-18
Salagi 17-Oct-18
Salagi 17-Oct-18
Trial153 17-Oct-18
DL 18-Oct-18
TrapperKayak 18-Oct-18
Bowfreak 18-Oct-18
TrapperKayak 18-Oct-18
wifishkiller 18-Oct-18
GF 18-Oct-18
From: Smokey
15-Oct-18

Smokey's Link
What U think?

From: Smokey
15-Oct-18
Apparently they are a varmint and cause some issues over there. Totally legal, so I don't have a issues with the hunt or anything but maybe throwing out the statement about killing the whole family makes me think he was poking the bear a little.

15-Oct-18
I posted a different article on the CF. Similar Thread Title.

I think people are idiots.

From: smarba
15-Oct-18
He was foolish to pose/post a photo like that in this day and age. Sad reality.

From: rallison
15-Oct-18
Ever read Capstick? His account of he and another PH being hired by what ever government (don't recall what country) to crop excess and problem elephants would have heads exploding today!

The narrative is really remarkable, with increadible detail, but they had to kill EVERY elephant in the group to be cropped out. Any surviving animal was an instant rouge, inflicting great discomfort to the local indigenous population. I believe this was in the early 1970's.

Pretty sure that wouldn't fly today.

From: MK111
15-Oct-18
I know a guy who did the same thing over there. But he was smart enough no to post on the internet. If it's legal and it's a big help to the locals but keep it to yourself.

From: Ucsdryder
15-Oct-18
The age of “too bad, it’s legal and I can do what I want” are over. This stuff turns non-hunters into anti-hunters. Anti-hunters vote to take away our hunting “rights”. Don’t be stupid!

From: lv2bohunt
15-Oct-18
Some people will never learn

From: smarba
15-Oct-18
True Ucsdryder

From: spike78
15-Oct-18
Kind of sick shooting them that young.

From: Dale06
15-Oct-18
The farmers hate them. They tear up crops, orchards etc.

From: Salagi
15-Oct-18
"Kind of sick shooting them that young."

I've killed many baby mice, little raccoons, young coyotes, and other "babies" that were causing damage. As one cavalry officer said 150 years or so ago, "nits make lice."

I will agree that he shouldn't have posted the picture anywhere.

From: Pat Lefemine
15-Oct-18
Is that Larry Fischer’s son?

He had to know killing a family of anything and boasting about it is asking for trouble. And unless I’m mistaken isn’t any email to or from a fish and game official subject to FOI ?

From: RK
15-Oct-18
Pat

Yes

And

Yes

From: marktm250
15-Oct-18
He apparently resigned after pressure from Idaho colleagues and past game commissioners to salvage the integrity of the department. No excuse for disrespecting any game like that, even if it is considered vermin.

From: Zbone
15-Oct-18
Brought it on himself, posting pictures of dead baby primates ain't cool, regardless whom they were sent too...

15-Oct-18
I guess I will have to hide the pics I got of a buck, doe and yearling I killed, they may have been a family. A delicious one though.

From: skookumjt
15-Oct-18
No, not all his emails would be subject to FOI. Only emails that pertain to his position would be. He should have a State email for official correspondence.

From: Grunter
15-Oct-18
Not a good move. I'm a diehard bowhunter, but I could never kill a whole family of big game animals. Killing babies ain't my thing. Guess I'm a softy. I could with mice though ha

From: GF
15-Oct-18
“The age of ‘too bad, it’s legal and I can do what I want’ are over. ”

Unless you run a hedge fund, destroy the housing market and tank the whole economy.... while making BILLIONS.

I try to recognize Reality for what it is and I don’t go out of my way to offend people, because if you piss of enough of them, you’re going to lose sooner or later.

That guy was a complete idiot to send out those pictures, especially given that the youngest of the baboons was clearly gut-shot. Is it ironic as hell and morally repugnant that a lot of the people who will howl the loudest over this guy killing a “baby” baboon are OK with abortion as after-the-fact birth control? Hell yes, it is.

JMO...

Don’t like guns? Don’t buy one.

Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one.

You can make a fairly coherent case for the idea that it would have been LESS ethical to NOT take all three, because the juvenile would have suffered without a mother and would probably have been killed without a father if it wasn’t yet weaned.

But people operating entirely on emotion don’t respond well to coherent or logical thought. Regardless of their political affiliations....

15-Oct-18
from what i understand baboons are a major nuisance in alot of areas and need to be culled. that said to prop them up like that and post/email pics only a idiot wouldnt know in these days that the libtard animal loveys would go crazy over this one....

From: Franklin
15-Oct-18
No matter what you post of a hunting kill will draw the ire of the antis. We all KNOW this....this act and pic is just plain dumb. There are plenty of Baboons to kill if you are doing "varmint" control. This resembles blood lust killing and hurts us all.

Personally I do not kill anything in the dawn of it`s life. I opened a tool box drawer and there was a mouse nest with babies in it....I closed the drawer and waited a couple of months until they were gone before I evicted them.

15-Oct-18
Not too smart to post it. I haven't seen his side of the story and how he posted it. Nor do I know much about those animals and conservation in Africa. Assuming its all legit and it was beneficial for conservation he shouldn't have posted anything. Regardless of how many facts you post alongside an image like that, it will be used against you. Facts literally don't matter with a photo like that, only emotion.

16-Oct-18
The guy has resigned.

When are folks going to get the idea that social media is not your friend.

TMBB

From: Zbone
16-Oct-18
Ouch... I'd have never resigned, but I wouldn't have posted pictures like that either... Shame all the way around...

From: wild1
16-Oct-18
Everyone in Africa hates baboons, but this was poor judgment.

From: GF
16-Oct-18
“Facts literally don't matter with a photo like that, only emotion.”

And unfortunately our culture has gone that way on just about everything these days. Pick an issue and both sides will accuse the other of doing it; and they’ll both have a point. Up to a point.

From: loprofile
16-Oct-18
Five certified morons in the picture he posted

From: Ollie
16-Oct-18
I'm pretty sure Blake hunted on the same Namibia ranch where I hunted this past July. The ranchers/farmers hate the baboons and are happy to have you kill them. That said, I passed on many chances to kill a baboon at the water holes where I hunted. I have no interest in having one mounted (can just imagine the negative reactions from visiting non-hunting friends) and no one eats them. So why kill one? I have nothing against someone else killing one but not for me. Very, very poor judgment to post something like that on social media and then try to make a joke about it. Guess he never heard of Cecil the lion or the girl from Kentucky that killed the black giraffe.

From: TD
16-Oct-18
Guess nobody has ever eaten veal.......

I don't eat rats or mice or cockroaches but will go out of my way to kill every single one I come across. Apparently these things are considered vermin as well. Have no issues with removing "families" or entire colonies for that matter. I've been on eradication hunts. At that point it becomes a job or a task. Is what it is.

That said...... posting that publicly was a poor choice to say the least. Cost him his job.

From: Chief 419
16-Oct-18
Baboons are nasty critters and a troop will kill all of the small animals in to path, eat the guts out and keep moving. They are nothing but a nuisance in Africa. There's a lesson to be learned here. FB is not your friend. Be prepared to accept responsibility for what you post.

From: Tonybear61
17-Oct-18
Read about the Hunting Chimpanzees sometime. Our closest genetic relative hunting other primates stalk, chase and catch them tearing apart while still very much alive and tell me what hunters do is less humane.

I know hunters who have been to Africa and have seen baboon behavior, compare it to your local squirrel population turning into attack zombies.

Folks think that FB private rooms are private, not so . If you create it or post it, can be found by others with the right know how and tools. Any anti-with-a -cause can repost edit, etc. and make their political point.

From: GotBowAz
17-Oct-18

From: GotBowAz
17-Oct-18
Not sure how the above blank post happened but guess sense it did Ill weigh in. While in bad taste he shouldn't have posted it on social media. I have no interest in hunting them either but then again im not in the here and now, that could change the minute I have one in front of me. I can see showing off to like minded hunters. I mean isnt that what we do here with deer? It's sad he has to loose his job and reputation but I can see where he brought it onto himself when he posted it on social media. As for those that would save baby mice. That means there are big mice around when you let them live. Remind me not to visit you with all the crap they can carry and destruction those pest will do. I trap and kill all mice and gophers on my property. No way id let a littler of pinks live however I wouldn't post a pick after killing them on social media either.

From: TrapperKayak
17-Oct-18
"He apparently resigned after pressure from Idaho colleagues and past game commissioners to salvage the integrity of the department. No excuse for disrespecting any game like that, even if it is considered vermin." Yet I am hearing (in the LW wolf thread)some of these 'top' Idaho officials have promoted and permitted wolf reintroductions there influenced and heavily funded by left wing politicals ...talk about double standards! Trying to make people think they are "ethical" (the integrity of the Department) LOL! I call BS... The guys should never have posted those pics, what did he gain from it by that, but I have no problem with the taking of game legally. With a recurve no less. Those things are NOT easy to get shots at. Been there, seen it, they are tough to hunt.

From: Kevin Dill
17-Oct-18
I'm 100% certain the killing of baboons is accepted, encouraged and applauded where this happened. I'd probably despise them if I had them harassing me frequently, and I'd likely kill the crap out of them too in such a setting where it's encouraged. I just wouldn't send images of it to anyone. In fact, I probably wouldn't even have a picture taken. There's a massive chasm between accepted cultural behaviors on opposite sides of the planet. When in Rome....and what happens in Vegas.....

From: Dave
17-Oct-18
I posted this on another forum and knew I would find similar "criticisms" over here so it's appropriate here as well.

To all the "critics" on here:

Do you send pictures of your kills/hunts to your friends? Doesn't matter if they're deer, elk, bear, or baboons. Was it done legally? If so, you're equally as morally corrupt in the eyes of the anti's. Only difference is that they know they can peel off the weak amongst us and get some of us to turn against someone who did something entirely legal and in many respects good for the community of Africa. By claiming he should have resigned makes you NO BETTER THAN THE ANTI'S and LIBERALS themselves. This is what they do. They want to control everyone else's behaviors into the mold that they think is appropriate. This is what you have done now as well. The guy did nothing illegal. But the anti's have again succeeded at getting hunters to turn on themselves rather than support the guy. They will continue to peel off weak hunters every opportunity they can to get victory after victory until we look back and wonder what happened. I see it all the time in CA. First, Mountain lions, then dogs for bears, then coyotes, non-toxic ammunition, etc. It's a war of attrition because they know the high-and-mighty morality police amongst us can't help but go after one another because someone hunts differently than we do. Now, Idaho has lost what sounds like a good Commissioner because some, including some hunters who consider themselves the morality police, have shamed him. Until we start banding together and defending one another and hunting/conservation in general and not just the type of hunting WE do, we'll all be better off and just might be able to preserve our heritage and win some of these battles.

17-Oct-18
While that may all be true hunters need to show a bit more intelligence and not post ridiculous photos of slain animals that are in poor taste. The family of baboons photo being posted was outright stupid. The recent photo of the mountain lion with an arrow protruding from his head was stupid. A photo I saw today of a crossbow bolt sticking in the neck of a deer while it lay dead in a pool of blood was stupid. These all are images that form opinion. Visual perceptions make lasting impressions and do not reflect the honored tradition that hunting should represent. If this guy was a game commissioner and he didn’t have enough sense to realize that as such he represents hunters in the eyes of the general public then maybe he shouldn’t be representing hunters at all.

From: Trial153
17-Oct-18
Saved me typing. ^^

From: Catscratch
17-Oct-18
I miss the days when people looked at something they didn't particularly like and just shrugged it off and looked away. I remember grandma cutting the head off of chickens and watching them flop around the yard with blood squirting everywhere. It was a part of life that had to happen so that the family could eat. You got over the gory part of it because it didn't really matter what you thought... it was still going to happen that way. Now days everyone wants to shield their eyes from something they don't particularly like... AND they want to stop it from happening altogether. Just because something doesn't "feel good" to you doesn't mean you should get to have a say so in what's going on. People would do good to shield their own eyes sometimes and keep their nose to themselves.

From: Steve
17-Oct-18

Steve's embedded Photo
Steve's embedded Photo
Attached is photo of a entire family. We are hunters, we kill critters. Criticizing the hunter is a mistake.

From: Zbone
17-Oct-18
Yep, well said Ken...

17-Oct-18
Ah yes, if we could only go back to the days of grandma and the times when that deer hunting photo was taken. The good “old” days. Those days are old for a reason. We don’t live in those times now. We live in the present where public opinion and voting cycles are determined by perception NOT facts. Perception can be shaped positively or negatively. How many new hunters do you think will be recruited by a photo of a dead, gut shot baby Baboon? How many new anti hunters? Think before you post. Hunters are losing ground daily around the world due to the continued negative perceptions being provided by hunters themselves.

From: Pat Lefemine
17-Oct-18
Times are far different now than they were just ten years ago. Social media has some very dark and destructive forces behind them. The people who run google Facebook and Twitter are not our friends. They decide through their proprietary AI algorithms what goes viral and what does not. This type of crap gets top priority for showing up in people’s feeds.

Let me be very blunt. I do this for a living. Most People have no idea what they are doing with electronic media right now. There are things I will never post anywhere because I know how easy it is for it to go viral and ruin a perfectly fine reputation.

Forget all the bullshit chest thumping on how people kill mice so we should display a family of dead baboons. That argument is beyond stupid.

Ken is 100% correct. Non hunters are forming a negative perception of hunting from a handful of horrendous photos that are pushed virally by social media. It’s not an accident. We all need to smarten up and use our heads when using social media.

From: Boatman71
17-Oct-18
I had a buddy that lived over there for 4 years. You have to lock everything, house including all windows and vehicles. The monkey can open anything if its unlocked and they will destroy anything they can get into. They are a real pest and roam around at will in groups. Not a rare occurrence either. If its not locked, it will be destroyed daily.

From: grossklw
17-Oct-18
Nobody is arguing that they're not pests and need to be removed. Just the stupidity of the photo and then sending it out. How did he think that was going to be received? Pic's like that turn a lot of non-hunters into anti's.

Agree with Ken and Pat completely, this isn't 1920, how we're perceived from people outside our circle is important whether or not you want to admit it; those are votes. And stupid shit like this can stuff more in the wrong side of the ballot box come election time on issues I care about. I fully support him shooting all the vermin monkeys he wants, but the pic and wording with it is a terrible look for hunters everywhere and especially with it hitting national media puts us in a negative light.

From: 320 bull
17-Oct-18
Posting on SM is bad juju to begin with and the way it gives the antis propaganda to recruit with its all around a bad idea IMO. The fact that the guy lost his job because of someones distaste for his actions is a tragedy on a level that is hard to comprehend. Wait until they don't like something you do and you are persecuted for it even though you were 100% within your rights. Think about that!!!

From: TrapperKayak
17-Oct-18
I was offered a rifle shot at a large adult male baboon at around 450 yds by my PH, and passed. He told me how destructive they are. How to keep them 'honest' by shooting at them. I had mixed feelings on passing, and now leaning more toward taking the shot. I wouldn't have used it, or kept the skull, but I feel like I blew a chance to help the outfitter keep the darn things out of their hair. No big deal, I don't usually shoot stuff I'm not gonna eat, or thrill kill, but these thing are destructive like mice (no problem killing them at any age). I don't think this commissioner should have resigned or been told to do so either. Life is different over there. That being said, he should have 'left it' there, not show off to the 'new world order'.

From: Catscratch
17-Oct-18
Don't get me wrong about the "grandma" story. I 100% agree that we need to not feed the anti machine with distasteful pictures. But I still feel that people in general are too up everybody else's business and too soft about life for our own good as a culture. There is certainly an agenda being pushed. How many times have pics from slaughter houses been used by peta types to try to get rid of beef production? I'm part of the cattle trade and can guarantee the pics I've seen published are no where close to what happens on most ranches, feedlots, and slaughter houses. But those are the pics pushed in front the new generations to persuade change. Fur trade? In this country they were very successful in getting rid of it. I'm agreeing with you guys. I just don't like it so I rant a little.

From: Salagi
17-Oct-18
Just today we were discussing ethics in the hunters ed class I was teaching to a group of 7th grade students, (yes, it is still a part of the curriculum in the intro to ag class we teach). One of the things we talked about was about 5% of the country are hunters and about 5% are anti hunters. That leaves the rest on the fence so to speak. Paying attention to public perception is more important now than ever.

I do not fault him for killing the baboons, I really don't think he should have resigned, but I certainly think he was irresponsible when he posted the picture anywhere. Sad we have to think that way anymore but true.

From: Salagi
17-Oct-18
In a side note, I received a PM concerning my quote of "nits make lice." I was accused of being a bigot. I do not endorse genocide of any people and disagree with the premise that general had about slaughtering kids. On the other hand, I thought the saying itself to be true and applicable in this non-human situation. I guess the fact that some took offense at it also serves to illustrate my point about people's perception of things.

If I insulted anyone else with that quote I apologize.

From: Trial153
17-Oct-18

Trial153's Link
This was posted on Rokslide. Very applicable to this situation. " We may not agree with each other’s methods or style, but as long as it’s legal and as long as it’s not foolishly airing distasteful content out for our enemies to exploit, then we should be supporting one another"

And this is it in nut shell. We need to police ourselves first and foremost.

From: DL
18-Oct-18
We share 94% of the DNA with a baboon. Based on all the negative crap on the internet about them being shot I disagree with that number. Closer to 100% I’d say.. either they didn’t evolve or they devolved. I’m betting on the latter.

From: TrapperKayak
18-Oct-18
David, I thought the 'nits make lice' quote was genius...as it applies to pests. (obviously not people, Crikey.)

From: Bowfreak
18-Oct-18
If you post hunting pictures on anything more mainstream than typical hunting forums this will happen to you. It sucks but it is what it is.

From: TrapperKayak
18-Oct-18
Two of our local newspapers, the Rome Daily Sentinel, and the Oneida Daily Dispatch, still publishes pictures of nice bucks people shoot during season every year. They've been doing it for years. I am sure there are others. No body whines that I have read (in editorials). Hunting is reality, and part of upstate NY'ers lifestyle. And people like to see pics of big bucks/antlers. NY (upstate) is not CA. Even NYC residents are on board with hunters more than most west coast urban areas (Seattle/Portland/LA) I'd say.

From: wifishkiller
18-Oct-18
I stopped reading posts after the second bashing one. These days, it is what it is with social media but its ridiculous seeing the same thing here.

From: GF
18-Oct-18
I got into a kerfuffle with Mr. Moody a while back, but 100% agreement on this one.

@Pat - it doesn’t require some Great Liberal Conspiracy to get stuff like that to go viral; you push somebody’s hot-button and it’ll take off all by itself. That’s why our political system is all jacked up now, with everyone so scared of the “other” side that they won’t question anyone who claims to be on “their” side no matter how outrageous the behavior becomes or what the long-term fall-out will be.

Get offended on FaceBook? Click “share”! And don’t forget the angry-face emoji so people will know where you stand.

That’s what “having a political debate” has become in this country... GREAT!

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