Sitka Mountain Gear
BirdShot vs Grizzzz??
Bears
Contributors to this thread:
BULELK1 25-Oct-18
cnelk 25-Oct-18
Zbone 25-Oct-18
x-man 25-Oct-18
M.Pauls 25-Oct-18
Brotsky 25-Oct-18
LBshooter 25-Oct-18
Jaquomo 25-Oct-18
Brotsky 25-Oct-18
Joey Ward 25-Oct-18
cnelk 25-Oct-18
BigOzzie 25-Oct-18
Ambush 25-Oct-18
Zbone 25-Oct-18
WV Mountaineer 25-Oct-18
Junior 25-Oct-18
BigOzzie 25-Oct-18
Zbone 25-Oct-18
x-man 25-Oct-18
Surfbow 25-Oct-18
Jim McCann 25-Oct-18
Backpack Hunter 25-Oct-18
BULELK1 26-Oct-18
GF 26-Oct-18
Zbone 26-Oct-18
Franklin 27-Oct-18
BowJunkie 27-Oct-18
AZ8 28-Oct-18
From: BULELK1
25-Oct-18

BULELK1's Link
Crazy Lucky Guy!!

Good luck, Robb

From: cnelk
25-Oct-18
I saw that. That bear came fast

From: Zbone
25-Oct-18
Wonder what kind of bird shot, if from a Tarus Judge or S&W Governor with .410 or one of those CCI bird shot shell out of another type handgun... Like to know more details... The shot stopped her and he likely could have followed up with a killing shot if wanted too....

From: x-man
25-Oct-18
A good friend of mine used to spend every summer in Alaska gold mining and fishing. They all kept sawed off 12ga autos in a back quiver loaded with 8 shot. He never had to pull the trigger, but was bluff charged many times. I guess the old timers there said it was the best deterrent they've ever used. A blast of 8 shot in the face at close range stops them instantly where as a slug in the chest takes up to a minute to stop them.

From: M.Pauls
25-Oct-18
Good point X-man. I think some also alternate with shot and slug so that when the bear is "stopped" they can plow them with a slug. Makes a lot of sense to me. A bunch of shot to the face would be a definite WTF moment for the bear I'd think. Glad this guy is ok

From: Brotsky
25-Oct-18
At the range in which you would typically engage a bear what choke tube would they be using with bird shot? At 10-15 steps pretty much everything is still very tight and the shot size would be somewhat irrelevant except for the penetration factor once it makes contact.

From: LBshooter
25-Oct-18
Never underestimate the power of a 12 gauge,especially at close range. At that distance it was a baseball size of lead. Think of it as a bear stun gun.

From: Jaquomo
25-Oct-18
What do they do to follow up and finish off a blind bear with no blood trail?

From: Brotsky
25-Oct-18
I was kinda thinking that same thing Lou. Now you have a blind, aggressive grizzly in the bush. How do you solve that problem before it becomes a problem for the next guy?

From: Joey Ward
25-Oct-18
Did you know you can make a slug from a shot shell?

They'll kill any bear!

From: cnelk
25-Oct-18
"Did you know you can make a slug from a shot shell?"

Yep. I learned that about 40+yrs ago

From: BigOzzie
25-Oct-18
We had a local incident years ago where a guy fleeing from a griz, that was in his chicken coupe, turned and shot it with a 410, and killed it the wad was found embedded in the nasal cavity.

I load my 12 ga. with birdshot then a slug and hang it above the door. I think it is the best arrangement, one bird shot to scare or shock them and then a slug to kill.

oz

From: Ambush
25-Oct-18
We have no grizzly season here in BC now. We're advised, in a grizzly charge situation, to flip the grizzly onto it's back and rub it's tummy until it chills out.

Bella Coola, where this happened, has a high concentration of grizzlies because of the salmon runs. They also have a lot of tourists during this time so the grizzlies are used to people and know bears rule.

This man made two mistakes. He should have shot the bear, with a rifle, in the head from his deck and looking at him. He should have deleted any video evidence. Call the CO service and say he shot a grizzly in self defense, please come deal with cubs.

From: Zbone
25-Oct-18
BigOzzie - I have no doubt Grizz have been and can be killed at CLOSE range with a .410 shotshell... Yeah, I also like alternating birdshot, solid projectile for self defense... Been playing around recently with .410 and .45 Long Colt ammo (see "Pistols for Bear Attacks" thread), but anyhow I like what they used to call "ball and shot" rounds... A single lead round ball atop birdshot behind...

25-Oct-18
It looks like it worked well this time. The only thing I wander is how big of a problem did he just create for the next guy when that leg gets festered. I'm assuming she could die this year in the den. OR get out and die slower next year. OR heal up and learned her lesson.

I ain't judging him IF he truly was trying to knock her feet out from under her, he was one cool cat under fire. And, while the written account said the wife was screaming, she seemed oblivious as to what could have happened. "Oh no, It's charging." Yeah. My wife would have been screaming and shooting. You could have put explanation points behind those words had we been there. :^)

From: Junior
25-Oct-18
He charged first! Anyone else not see that?

From: BigOzzie
25-Oct-18
Shotgun Blast Drops Charging Grizzly (from The Daily Interlake, a western Montana Newspaper. Written by reporter Jim Mann)

Two aggressive grizzly bears have been shot, one by a hunter and one by a Fortine homeowner. A Kalispell man shot a stalking grizzly bear in the Swan Mountains and a Fortine man shot a grizzly at close range, narrowly escaping as the bear charged from a chicken coop.

James Beeman picked up a .410-gauge shotgun when he went outside his Fortine-area home to investigate a commotion from his chicken coop around 4 a.m. Sunday.

Wearing a headlamp and expecting a skunk, Beeman saw two bear cubs run from the damaged door of the chicken coop. Then an adult grizzly bear emerged with a chicken in its mouth.

The bear dropped the chicken and charged from 15 feet. Beeman fired, with the muzzle of the gun roughly three feet from the bear, which crumpled to ground, dead at Beeman's feet.

It turned out to be an astounding shot, considering a .410 is a light gun and the shell contained a light load typically used for quail hunting.

But it hit the bear squarely in the nose, the only soft, vulnerable place on a grizzly skull. Pellets likely penetrated the length of the nasal cavity to the brain. The wad from the shell was imbedded in the bear's nose.

"What's the likelihood of that?" said Ed Kelly, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks warden captain in Kalispell. "I know guys with .375s who couldn't have made a kill like that. He's just a lucky, lucky guy."

Kelly said the shooting was a "justifiable case of self defense."

The bear was a 350-pound female.

Warden Jim Roberts and Tim Manley, the grizzly bear management specialist in Northwest Montana, have been pursuing the bear's two cubs-of-the-year. At one point, the cubs were chased high up a tree, too high to dart with sedatives because of the risk of them being hurt in a fall.

From: Zbone
25-Oct-18
A .410 at 3 feet would probably kill a rhino...8^) Any shotgun at extremely close range even with birdshot is devastating, never heard of a suicide gone bad with a shotgun...

From: x-man
25-Oct-18
The reason these guy's in Alaska used sawed off shotguns and 8 shot was because it had about a 6-8" pattern at 10-15 feet. The distance at which they weren't going to wait any longer. At that point, they didn't much care if the bear was blinded or not. They needed the bear to STOP immediately. It's just an animal after all. Self preservation over rules the bears well being.

Hand guns slugs and rifles will all kill the bear quicker than 8 shot. But a bear can do an enormous amount of damage to you in the time it takes for it to expire from a heart or lungs shot.

From: Surfbow
25-Oct-18
"never heard of a suicide gone bad with a shotgun..."

Yeah, when i was in high school there was a double murder suspect who was cornered by the cops and tried to kill himself with a shotgun but didn't get it done, he had a long stay in the ICU and then went to jail, minus most of his face...

From: Jim McCann
25-Oct-18
I've only lived in Alaska for about 50 years now, but I've never heard of anyone arming themselves with a shotgun loaded with #8 birdshot for bears. I have seen X-rays of a bear shot with birdshot that did not penetrate the skull but traveled around the skull under the hide. I bird hunt a lot, maybe more than anyone else in Alaska, and I once found myself faced with the distinct possibility of defending myself against a grizzly with two one ounce loads of 7 1/2 shot from my pet 16-gauge game gun, and I didn't feel I was adequately armed for the encounter. No way. I'll take my .45-70 rifle or at least my heavily loaded .44 magnum revolver.

25-Oct-18
When a grizzly is charging I would opt for something that would penetrate deeply and reliably. Glad the guy is ok.

From: BULELK1
26-Oct-18
I wondered if his Wife was filming with her phone so she could hurry and post it on her FaceBook page!!! haha

Good luck, Robb

From: GF
26-Oct-18
“I once found myself faced with the distinct possibility of defending myself against a grizzly with two one ounce loads of 7 1/2 shot from my pet 16-gauge game gun, and I didn't feel I was adequately armed for the encounter.”

But I’ll bet it would have been a lot more effective than harsh language....

And you’re used to 1) having it IN YOUR HANDS at all times, 2) bringing it into play quickly, and 3) using it on a moving target . No scrabbling to get it clear of a holster, let alone having to dig it out of a pack...

Makes me wonder...

When Bear Spray has failed, how often was it because the user didn’t know how to hit a moving target?

From: Zbone
26-Oct-18
Hold off until 5 feet with that 16 gauge and guarantee that bird shot will penetrate the skull...

From: Franklin
27-Oct-18
What was the dumbazz and his dog doing outside with a pile of bears around. That`s what they have window and doors for.....to stick your gun out of.

From: BowJunkie
27-Oct-18
Did anyone else notice his shoe fall off?!? The bear comes to and grabs it haha!

From: AZ8
28-Oct-18
Bowjunkie, I think that saved the guy’s life. You can see the griz pause, turn and sniff the shoe, then continue with his pursuit. That 2 second distraction allowed that guy to get away. Crazy lucky!

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