Black Gold Sights
Ever see Field/broads hit same POA?
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Mud 05-Nov-18
APauls 05-Nov-18
Shawn 05-Nov-18
JTV 05-Nov-18
Bou'bound 05-Nov-18
stick n string 05-Nov-18
Scooter 05-Nov-18
Glunt@work 05-Nov-18
JohnMC 05-Nov-18
Pat Lefemine 05-Nov-18
Mud 05-Nov-18
JTV 05-Nov-18
Shawn 05-Nov-18
Guardian hunter 05-Nov-18
gobble50 05-Nov-18
DMTJAGER 05-Nov-18
DMTJAGER 05-Nov-18
Franklin 05-Nov-18
WapitiBob 05-Nov-18
Shawn 05-Nov-18
GF 05-Nov-18
Dale06 05-Nov-18
Bou'bound 05-Nov-18
Ucsdryder 05-Nov-18
Mud 05-Nov-18
Ken Moody Safaris 05-Nov-18
Mud 05-Nov-18
Shawn 05-Nov-18
WapitiBob 05-Nov-18
Mud 06-Nov-18
skookumjt 06-Nov-18
Bullhound 06-Nov-18
Ermine 06-Nov-18
Ermine 06-Nov-18
Boreal 06-Nov-18
Shawn 06-Nov-18
Paul@thefort 06-Nov-18
Mud 06-Nov-18
Mud 06-Nov-18
From: Mud
05-Nov-18
I don't hunt anymore, I'm just asking, so let's not bring current laws into this. It's a hypothetical question. Are mechanicals the best option for same POI as field tips at any range? I personally with current gear can keep 3" groups at 60 yards & field points. I'm not happy with that. I know 4 things holding me back are a cheap release, 0.019 pins that cover the entire bullseye at 60 yards, bow needs to be tuned perfectly at a shop as I simply don't have the know how or equipment, and uh, maybe I should change my 8 year old Whisker biscuit to a serious target rest.

I don't know what States allow you guys to hunt with mechanicals, & what ones don't. Maybe they all do. I haven't hunted since they switched PA from Counties to new numbered & lettered areas.

I did learn long ago to make broad heads that don't spin true on glass spin as good as I could get them. It seems to only go so far as they simply are effected more by wind & what I learned is The Magnus effect. I see some shows where shots are taken at extreme distances. I'm not condoning it, nor would I personally have shot at game past 40 in my day even if I can keep them in a 3" group at 60 yards & junk equipment. Well, all entry level but for the good HEXX arrows. My personal feeling is that there's just too many variables past 40 yards for me to be sure, and even then a Deer jumping the string is always a possibility.

Before I'm judged on why I ask, or say anything, I honestly stated, hypothetical but I'm interested in the science behind it. If any real advancements have been made or not. If mechanicals are your best bet in a survival situation then legal isn't a concern. If stealth & pinpoint accuracy is my #1 concern, I'm just asking to learn from those who've tried most brands out there. I don't have the $, time, or do I claim I'm an accomplished bowman in any way shape or form. Hence, I'm here to learn from those who know.

From: APauls
05-Nov-18
Do you mean POI? If so, yes it's absolutely possible. With many brands of heads and arrows. Go through the "equipment" threads on bowsite and you will find many threads talking about how to attain this. Most guys on here are shooting exactly that.

From: Shawn
05-Nov-18
Yup, all the time if the bow is tuned properly. I shoot 175 grain 3 blade VPA broadhead and it hits exactly as my 175 grain field point. Shawn

From: JTV
05-Nov-18
Wow, consistant 3" groups at 60 yds ... any relation to Ulmer or Levi ?? And with a old Biscuit . . And your not an Accomplished archer ? ...dayuuum ...

From: Bou'bound
05-Nov-18
Keep working at it and you’ll get those groups at 60 down to something most bowsiters would find acceptable.

05-Nov-18
3” at 60? And ur not happy with it? Do much fishin?

From: Scooter
05-Nov-18
Consistent 3 inch groups with broadheads and field points at 60 yds.....I’ll take it any day of the week.......Can’t emagine what they could be like with a new biscuit, or a drop away, or some other rest...... Keep shooting...

05-Nov-18
personally I wouldn't change a thing either. I used to chase this like crazy....but the facts are that I don't even shoot fp's very much after about July or so. It is essentially meaningless what BH's do in relation to FP's if they grouping 3" at 60.

From: Glunt@work
05-Nov-18
My groups at 60 are closer to 3 feet so its hard to say if broad heads and field points hit the same.

From: JohnMC
05-Nov-18
I had to look twice. Thought I was reading a Bowriter thread.

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Nov-18
Agree with all points above. Most guys would kill for those groups at 60 yards, me included.

From: Mud
05-Nov-18
I guarantee the truth, I even invited several members here over to hunt this land as I'm just a target shooter for relaxation. I realize it's not horrible shooting, but compared to an Olympic target shooter or what you see on TV? Plus, my real hope is to get consistent 3" groups @ 30 yards instinctively with the LB, which I do NOT see happening. That is an entirely different story but I'll keep at that. From what I've read here, many of you speak highly of the VPA broad heads. I'll give them a try but maybe I expect too much as my background is group shooting lead so. I just read here where fellas were saying certain heads are great out to 40. As I said, in my days, that would have been just fine.

The Levi question is exactly why I asked this. Well, one of the main reasons. He took a 100+yrd shot and nailed an elk in the heart. I didn't see the footage. I read here where many were downing him for even attempting such a distance. I'm not a judgmental person but I'm big on science, facts, perception. I may be wrong but if anyone knows what the Magnus effect is, it is almost against the laws of physics for a non mechanical to attain the same POI past 40 yards as blades just catch wind more and thus things are almost obliged to change. I see this in slight changes of BC in my other hobby and I just don't know enough about archery to get the answers.

My personal goal is to be good at 30yrds instinctively, and as good as I can be at Olympic 77meters.

The Levi 100+ yard shot. My only thoughts are he's sighted in with that exact set up out to distances he feels he's competent. I did look up PA laws and WASP site says mechanicals are legal for hunters. I would like to move up in my equipment. I don't believe flagships are necessary; but I surely know that good equipment will allow you to excel. I don't want to cross forum lines here but an example. I do this w/ a 70# compound & 85% let off. I was lucky enough to find a deal I could not pass up on a high end LB 55#'s @ 28" & this is what I've learned. 55lbs is too much for me to have perfect form and do good. I've almost all but given up on full draw & perfect form, trying to focus on snap shooting & instincts. I'm a left eye dominant person who's actually right handed. Accuracy is everything to me so I use my left eye. I've tried righty bows with sights, and trads. I ALWAYS hit6-8"s to the left at 20 yards, so that just isn't any good. Both eyes open as always, tried squinting one, nothing helps. I have to use my left.

Anyone near Lehigh Valley PA is welcome to stop by and shoot. I invited a new fella & a fella whose near me that just got a monster 10 pointer to shoot or hunt this land. Haven't heard back.

Well, I thank you fellas for letting me know I'm doing ok. I don't ever really go out, nor do I want to compete, it's just my thing. Controlling my breathing, relaxing, working mind & body together to lessen the tolerance stacking that occurs.

One more thing. $ is tight for me. A very generous man from my other main hobby gave me these 18 HEXX arrows. I never would have gotten to this if he hadn't bestowed that gift to me. I was buying cheap Wally World arrows and sticking to 30 yards at most. I think I need to work on getting the 4 things I mentioned upgraded, try the VPA heads recommended and see what can be done on the windless days we have.

From: JTV
05-Nov-18
Archery is suppose to be a close range endeavor.. dosnt matter if its traditional or compound... to much can happen with those longer shots, Levi is a full head above the rest of us, believe me, but I still wont condone those shots, no matter who makes them ....

it is possible to get same POI with fixed heads and FP's, I wouldnt hunt unless I have my bow shooting that way.... I have 3 different Slick Trick models I use that group with my FPs, I alternate thru those with each hunt ... I trust each equally well ...

From: Shawn
05-Nov-18
Listen I shoot with a guy who has won Vegas the worlds and he still shoots 300 rounds with 58-60Xs. He cannot shoot consistent 3" groups at 60 yards, can he do it? Yes but not everytime. There are very few folks on this planet that can do that. I bet less than a couple hundred folks that can consistently do it and that may be a stretch. Shawn

05-Nov-18
O just bought the Thorn archery broadheads. They use hidden blade technology! Crazy accurate out to 100 yards and more.

From: gobble50
05-Nov-18
Yes. My 100gr Thunderheads shoot just like my field points & have for many many years.

From: DMTJAGER
05-Nov-18

DMTJAGER's embedded Photo
DMTJAGER's embedded Photo
Are mechanicals your best bet for FPs and BHs hitting the same spot? Nope Maybe not the same EXACT spot but I'll take it. And that is not a one off example, that target is shredded because I hit it so many times with both my FB/FB of choice and FP's. For those wondering that's a 3" Berchwood Casey peal and stick spot.

From: DMTJAGER
05-Nov-18

DMTJAGER's embedded Photo
DMTJAGER's embedded Photo
40 yards which due to issues with the prescription for my glasses changing and no time to get new ones till after the rut is over I'm limiting myself to 40 yards and under. Nope not EXACTLY the same POI but more than good enough to make ethical shots.

From: Franklin
05-Nov-18
I`m 8" soft....so there. Personally there is no need to shoot at any animal at 60 yards.

From: WapitiBob
05-Nov-18
Shawn, the difference is your friend shoots where they keep score. Totally different game than the internet.

From: Shawn
05-Nov-18
That is what I am saying. Hell most guys I shoot with can't keep 3"s at 30 yds and kill a lot of deer. Paper plate at 60 with arrows is above average I say. The only reason to shoot 60 is maybe a follow up shot. Archery for me anyway is about getting close. Shawn

From: GF
05-Nov-18

GF's embedded Photo
GF's embedded Photo
GF's embedded Photo
GF's embedded Photo
GF's embedded Photo
GF's embedded Photo
I shot Magnus Stingers and FPs into the same 4” or so at 45-50 and called it good. That was with the old Commander.

At 65 yards, I’m happy to be able to keep most of my shots in a group that measures basically my brace height in width and 1 bow length high.

From: Dale06
05-Nov-18
I only practice out to 40 yards but have no problem getting my Iron Will BHs to group with field points.

From: Bou'bound
05-Nov-18
funny thing is if you can hit 3" groups with field points at 60 you don't even need to shoot broadheads. if you are that accurate just hit them in the heart at 60 with a field point and he'll be dead fast.

From: Ucsdryder
05-Nov-18
These threads come up once in a while and the claims always seem to be pretty amazing! Let’s see mud silence the critics. Take your phone, leave it running from start to finish, even show the rangefinder read out showing 60 yards and shoot 3 arrows and walk down and tape measure them out. Let’s see it!

From: Mud
05-Nov-18
I don't know how to do a live feed. As said, I invited guys that have been on here for along time over to shoot or hunt this small but concentrated patch. I'm simply asking to learn. I didn't claim I'm hitting the next arrow. I was actually walking up & using the same arrow in 3 shot groups. I also admit I suck with my long bow. These are all things I need to learn. I'd greatly appreciate if a knowledgeable person came here & pointed out my ideal set up, & what needs to be tweaked. Whoever wants to come to Saylorsburg is welcome to film it all & post it. That being said, I will try to borrow Wife's iPhone & she should be able to figure out how to film & post. The difference is one of you might actually want to, and your word will be taken instead of what's next? Digitally altered? I don't know computers very well. Anyone is welcome for some target shooting & even a Sunday dinner if it suits you. I'm home 24/7 so any windless day I can do it. I'll clarify consistent isn't hour after hour. I asked because I don't know a darn thing about getting the most out of a set up.

05-Nov-18

Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
Ken Moody Safaris's embedded Photo
I’ve never ever hunted with broadhead tipped arrows that didn’t hit the same POI as my field points. I find it odd that anyone would. Here’s a photo of broadhead testing I just did this past weekend. Top is broadhead, bottom field point. Forty yard check. Not specifically exact POI but I’ll take it, lol.

From: Mud
05-Nov-18
Guys, I see many posts here that lead me to believe my OP wasn't read close. I DO NOT HUNT ANIMALS AT ALL. I'm into wringing out accuracy with what I have. I shoot out to 30 yards with the Tomahawk Diamond SS, & I SUCK. Farthest I've ever shot my compound is 60 yards & again, IF I were hunting Deer, I would limit my shots to 40 yards due to variables, jumping strings, ethics. I thought of a possible solution; but again, will filming it be believed? Besides, I'm not sure Twitter's Periscope will allow it. I'd have to tell you fellas ahead of time when I'm going live but I can almost be sure a snowflake will flag it. My Twitter account is in support of America & I do not need that to cross over here. I really wanted someone knowledgeable to come help point out where I could improve. Is the URL/ Link for videos on file? My phone doesn't have space but I can do live feeds on Periscope. Anything like that here? If not, & if nobody wants to come shoot either trad, (which I need a lot of help with) or wheelies, anytime suits though 8am to 3pm is best. The offer is up. Otherwise I'll try to get Wife to film & post when she can. I do prefer one of you whose word is gold simply come see & tell me where I can improve.

From: Shawn
05-Nov-18
Mud, you cannot improve, sorry like I said Morgan and Ulmer have trouble doing that every time. That is truly world class shooting!! Again read my other post, I doubt as I said in that post there is as many as a couple hundred in the US that can do that and their are roughly 330 million of us. Shawn

From: WapitiBob
05-Nov-18
Go to Lancasters, they'll help you out.

From: Mud
06-Nov-18
Update: I tried again this morning. End result was 3 arrows low to left of bullseye in a 5" group. One was high & to right of bullseye. I pulled that & again, a $20.00 True Fire release definitely leaves room for improvement.

I'll define my meaning of the OP. The BOW is capable of groups I did not think possible in it itself, let alone me as the shooter. Consider a gritty non adjustable release (think plastic daisy trigger, compared to a Timney or custom Job like a Dawson with sears rolling on ceramic bearings that breaks predictably like a glass rod & anatomically adjustable let alone 1st, 2nd stage.) Let's take into account I've been told to change my Biscuit, and I haven't. 8 years old. I'm saving for a better type. Not sure. I don't know enough to go spend & say I'm happy. The sights & peep. As of right now, I'm still using the old Trophy Ridge that came with the bow, 0.019 pins & the common hunting peep aperture, what's common RTH size, 1/4, 1/8"? This entire post started because I wanted a micro click sight so I could quickly adjust if need be from one arrow to another, or different tips. I obtained a sight that had retailed for almost $300 for $50 from a guy. It's allegedly ambidextrous, but it came to me in righty fashion. The fact that I switched the level to bottom & put it on my side upside down, may not be the answer. I say this because as a lefty, I had to have this sight MAXED all the way to the left of dovetail to get my arrows from hitting far right. I never realigned my peep, I don't know how to do any of that. I'm thinking maybe the sights tailpiece needs to be flipped. Whatever it is, I gave up and put the old sight back on, same as it was when taken off to ship to Bear. I still had to adjust that also but it's in the middle, not maxed out to one side.

If it stops raining, & the baby stays asleep for awhile, I may get to try again. What was different this time? Well, I used 4 different arrows, not the same one shot 3 times. It was quite windy where Sundays winds weren't even mentionable. I did this at 6:45am with no warm ups at all. Just wanted to see what I could do in an early morning, pressed for time, less than ideal conditions setting. I'll try again but many variables here. Now that I KNOW the bow could do it, I'm apt to practice more and try harder. Someone here said Archery is supposed to be short distances. Maybe some got confused by my questions as I see no reason you can't shoot as far as you like if you don't mind tracking arrows, loosing them maybe, or have a large enough backstop. I think the broad head question made all jump to the conclusion that I'm shooting to kill/hunt. I'm studying what this set up, & I could accomplish. That's all at this point. I was hoping to learn how to get more precision from my rig, and self. Sadly I read, my claim is almost unbelievable & I shouldn't hope to get any better. Well, I took it upon myself to lube my release & glad to say I think that right there will help. I still think it's a junk release as I'm very use to a 1st, then 2nd stage. I'd like to control travel of both & set the break like one of my target triggers. I never tried a good release so I don't know what Olympic shooters tend to set them at where I could tell you many fellas like the 8oz range on their triggers. Some more, some less, but predicable is the most important next to safe.

Let it be known, I'll hit a good bow shop. I'll try to get some finer equipment & learn how to get the most out of what I have. I'll continue this experiment of mine. I'll have my sights leveled on all axis's & see about a target peep & pins.

I was hoping to learn here but I think most of the members are hunters more than what I'm after in the relaxation target area. So if I upset anyone with the shots I shared with you on Sunday I apologize. The offer is always open for anyone to come shoot with me anytime. No, I wouldn't bet my life, house, much of anything on me making these 60 yard shots time after time but I'd bet a sight I'm about to give up on if we shot on a windless day.

From: skookumjt
06-Nov-18
I'm pretty sure this same thread was on here a few months ago. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

From: Bullhound
06-Nov-18
wow, just, wow!

From: Ermine
06-Nov-18
I always tune my bows to shoot fixed broadheads with my field points. Anyone who says you can’t Get them to Group is silly in my opinion. If they aren’t hitting the same your bow needs tuning. That’s just my opinion

For Reference Here is a Group at 105 yards. Field point, broadhead, Field point.

From: Ermine
06-Nov-18

Ermine's embedded Photo
Ermine's embedded Photo
I always bareshaft tune. I’ve found if my bareshaft shoots with fletched than foxes Blades generally shoot With field point. 30 yard group With fletched and bareshaft

From: Boreal
06-Nov-18
If you're striving for perfect arrow flight and the assumption is that broadheads are inherently less precise than field points, and you don't hunt, then why mess around with broadheads in the first place?

From: Shawn
06-Nov-18
I agree, I call BS!!! I am an idiot for checking on it!! Shawn

From: Paul@thefort
06-Nov-18
Are you sure that Mud is not the former Turkey Bow Master and just stringing us along??????????????

From: Mud
06-Nov-18
HERE'S THE CARDS ON THE TABLE!!!!!!! Go to @Trumpswingman on Twitter. I did a live video just 2o minutes ago. The action starts at 9:00 minute mark, you can hear the arrows flight time of over 1 second and smacking the Delta McKenzie target. I got ONE in the 5 1/2 bulls that is covered by the 0.019 pins @ 60 yards but, the other 3, low at 7 o'clock in a 4" group. Just switched the Trophy Ridge out to the micro click. It's not even leveled and wait until you see that whisker biscuit. Let's see if we can improve because I KNOW this equipment needs to.

From: Mud
06-Nov-18
Fair warning. I show a clean target, and phone is propped up to view target. You can hear the flight time. The group is inspected at around the 11 minute mark as I don't expect any of you to watch all the BS talking. I just didn't want anyone thinking I was posting a "violent" video of a weapon in action or anything crazy.

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