Not me. It’s definitely on my list of things to do, at least once in my lifetime.
I did watch 15 minutes of their opener but couldn't get into their way of doing things & I lost interest. I'm sure if a guy watched all of everything you'd enjoy it but too much slapstick for me! (grin) Too, I would approach their calling style differently especially for those pre-rut dates. It seems they are always calling 'Angry'
A lot of newer hunters will most likely enjoy the series. As some mention it's better than those Private Land Ranch hunts on TV for sure!
Those guys kill elk everywhere they go. I think their style works fine for them.
For instance, notice how they approach situations with no rhyme or reason, they hear a bull at great distances & start bugling their way to them for the most part. They have no real plan, they use the same calling tactic on every elk, if it works; great, in most cases it does not so they look for another until they find an elk that does. I think they are used to expecting those things & are OK with it. Not me, I want to call in every bull I hear & some I don't hear but know they're there.
If they would focus more on what they're saying & what they're hearing from real bulls their success rate would be through the roof! By understanding the attitude & mood of each individual bull you can now tailor your calling (if needed) to what will interest them & not just toss any elk sound out there hoping something sticks!
I realize I'm a fanatic about such things so when I see encounters going south because hunters aren't communicating with elk instead they just toss out cow calls & bugles it drives me nuts! (big grin) My hats off to them for busting their rears & sharing their hunts with others no matter how they do it.
I've watched all your videos, have your playbook, and even use your chuckler, but at times the intricate details and what seems like endless number of scenarios you go through makes it difficult to know what situation I'm even looking at based on their bugle/cows/etc...
That's the one of the great things about elk hunting though, different ways to get it done, you obviously have it figured out better than 99% of people including me; but I like it simple, hear bull, get close, make bull mad, kill bull. Take it for what it's worth as I've only been on 2 elk hunts but I'm 2/2 as a non-ressy on general tags and have many other great elk experiences that didn't end with an arrow flung but did have an awesome experience.
You should start filming your hunts as well Paul if you could swing it, there'd be a lot of interest I bet.
Average guys, filming their days afield, and having fun doing it.
The BRO boys and elknut each know how to kill elk and they differ on how that happens, thats plain and simple. IMO, He isnt bashing them, he just has deeper roots into knowing how to kill a bull in ANY situation vs just killing the kamakaze bulls. Nothing wrong with that. To me, its the same thing as a fly fisherman vs someone that uses a boat and trolls, or to keep it archery, the guy who hunts with a bow, a muzzleloader and/or a rifle when that season is in versus the guy who only bowhunts. Nothin wrong with any of it.
I enjoy all of the posts that each of you contribute. To me, you each are one of the many many many examples of why bowsite is a great place. Seems like a touch of animosity here, i hope like heck im wrong. Ur two of the good ones....
The face painting had me laughing though.
Cody will cry once they kill a bull, just give it time. I’m not known from crying but he seams like a great guy. All of them do.
Are there better elk hunters? Probably. Many here could fight for that title. Are there better elk killers? Not sure of that. They roll into the unknowns and kill elk EVERY single year. Not one or two either. Wasn't that long ago they went to Wyoming and killed 7 for 7. In two weeks. Its a hoot to watch them.
He isn't bashing them....he just wants everyone to know how many bulls he would have sweet talked that those novices didn't.
"Occam's razor, (also Ockham's "law of parsimony") is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions. The idea is attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian."
WV Mountaineer's Link
Case in point, i got into elk the last 3 days of my hunt this year. The 1st was them coming in silent in thick cover and just no opportunity for a shot. The last 2 i got into a couple bulls bugling and we went back and forth. Me cow calling and bugling and i just couldnt get him to close the distance and show himself. It was a blast but frustrating at the same time. Subtle didnt work and aggressive didnt work but it produced better results overall.
And even Cory's methods keep it simple, but i see where Paul is coming from too. For the seasoned successful elk hunter, IMO his methods are a refinement to an already good caller who recognizes and understands the situation they are in . But for us back east guys, its a lot to digest. And Paul, if you read this, Ive got your play book and at least one dvd. I think its good stuff, but i think a little overwhelming for new hunters.
I'd be the first to say that the BRO guys are doing the best they can, no one can take that from them & I believe no one is! But we can't help but watch videos they put out for public viewing. Many new hunters will imitate what they see, problem is they don't have 30 days to elk hunt, they need to take advantage of every encounter, you can only do this through understanding what makes elk tick certain times of Sept!
I agree they are entertaining but with all the prep work, miles & monies involved to line up & produce 50 days of elk hunting it's a bit more than just entertainment for them, in the long run they must show positive results & yes they do that but in-between the success they do miss out on a lot of golden opportunities they have with elk. I know, so what, we all do here & there! There's no way for them to script thick cover, wind switching at the last second, no elk in area or few elk at all! With these things in mind it's important to take advantage of every encounter even if it's one bugle from a bull especially on OTC public land hunts!
This means you need to understand Elk Behavior during different phases of the rut. The more knowledge & first hand experience we have the better we can adjust & tailor our setups & calling sequences to each bull as individuals. All bugles are not created equal & so they should not be responded to with one tone with the most emotion we can muster up. If we do this we we will lose out on a ton of encounters, if we insist on this path hopefully we have enough days to hunt until we find a bull that will cooperate!
Elk are flesh & blood as are we, they are not robots. Do we raise our voice to every guy we come in contact with or do we allow a situation to dictate our tone!
Elk hunting is no different! When we understand there's a time for social communication, rutting communication & a time for challenging situations then we are learning elk behavior!
If you hear one bugle as they did at a distance how would you approach this encounter to give yourself the best odds of killing that bull? Balls in your court!
Mark, what does this mean?
"This simple hike, challenge and repeat style is a direct threat to what ElkNut preaches. Of course he would not be fond of it..... "
You know what it means. It means people who subscribe to their style won't be needing your playbook.
Who me? Nah, not me. :^)
I agree mossyhorn. I get cranky when we hit the trail 10 minutes after we’re supposed to! I couldn’t imagine hanging around camp for a couple hours!
All that said, I enjoy the series very much. Well I enjoyed last years very much, this season had been booooooooring.
Here is why they are killers. They hunt extremely thick country at home. They hunt Elk that are tough to find in all that brush. They surely aren't the tacticians some here likely are. But they kill stuff. Isn't that what we are all trying to do? But, seeing and being able to truly develop a game plan is much easier in other elk country. In other words, if they kill there consistently, they will kill anywhere consistently.
I'm not defending them. But I'm not going to knock them either. I'm betting before the season is over, each one of them that hunts puts up as many kills as anyone here saying they are doing it wrong. Watch it for what it is. They are good elk hunters that hunt with some great elk hunters. It is going to get real soon enough.
WV, you got an extra ten entries from me!
Even if spike out, I shower with my water bladder. Add some boiling water and make it “warm” 2 liters can get you a decent back country cleaning.
There generally is no easy way to get to elk, those buggers seem to be in places they make us earn anything we get! (grin) The BRO guys do a great job covering ground & going where they hope to locate elk or in the general direction they heard one, I believe most here hunt in this manner?
I hunt timber country & call to locate as they do, very little glassing, we cover a lot of miles (my son & I) to find a bull, once one is heard we go to him unannounced the best we can, it doesn't matter where we start our hunt. We can be high, low & anywhere in-between, once elk is found through calling we then will worry about wind & position as we make our approach. I'm sure the BRO guys are similar in action. It's all about locating vocal elk, that's when the real hunt starts! We find so few elk these days in Idaho that we do everything we can to Call that bull in, we do not give up easily on any of them!
My earlier thoughts on their 'Leaving Things On The Table' was not a cut on them, it was an evaluation. I've found over the years & the many mistakes I used to make that it's important to listen to the Bugle & how many I heard no matter how it was heard. I listen to its tone & emotion, this will tell me what the attitude & mindset of the bull is, it could be a Lazy/Lethargic bed type bugle to a Challenge Bugle. The lazy bugles will get Slow Played & the Challenge Bugles or Aggressive Bugles will be played aggressively, this simple strategy works very well no matter if it's Pre-Rut or Peak Rut on OTC elk hunts. The Slow Played bull is the hardest, it requires patience & I must paint a picture in the bulls mind that plays on his curiosity, this is key when he is not in an aggressive mood, if I started out of the gate with aggressive action he will generally shut down or move off not to be heard from again. That would suck if I just rode 5-6 miles in on bikes as they did & finally found a bull late morning & walked for the next hour through a jungle! I need to be prepared physically & mentally & Always have a positive confident attitude.
Best odds to have a shot opportunity on that bull in heavy cover is to have a plan that will pull him to you, you are not going to sneak in on him. Being it's Aug 25th gets my full attention, this is huge & helps me to have a plan where my odds are very good to pull this bull in. Being late morning I know he's in his bedding area, I should have a captive audience plus there's a good chance there's additional bulls/satellites around. Get within a couple hundred yards of where I feel he is & go into an Advertising Sequence. (no cow calls) These bugles are more in the Lonesome Charlie variety, no challenging or obnoxious screaming for this tactic. This will get this bulls attention that you are not a bull he is familiar with being in his area, he will not know who you are by your bugles & this will intrigue him through your persistent/creative bugles, moans & groans along with subtle raking, this is how bulls will introduce themselves into a new area. This bull will want to check you out to size you up, he is not looking for a fight. Be persistent in your calling & have a good setup, the bull will most likely show up silent so be very watchful.
If he doesn't show in 20 minutes or so pull out a set of antlers, start rattling lightly & elevate the rattling so you know he can hear it, this shows a 2nd bull is there now & they are sparring, really play it up & down, be realistic! Play this up with stomping around & thrashing brush etc. You will be surprised how this simple technique can stir to action a bull who only bugled one time & showed no aggression, he will show up! This is what I was referring to in having a plan in place for this bull!
Please understand, I'm not stepping on toes here, just sharing some info that has upped my odds & treating bulls as individuals!
Yes Corey & Dirk were a huge plus to their success last year, it's tough to replace guys of that caliber!
Fun episode! A Stick bow in that country has to be crazy frustrating! At least with a flat shooting bow you can shoot through little openings!
I did wonder why the guy didnt kneel down and shoot under the limbs instead of keep standing. Your range extends a lot when you get under those low branches
Its all about the 'cant' of the bow - plus he had a recurve, not a long bow
As Wapitibob pointed out....its just entertainment ;)
No way you can tell me that they simply enjoy their way more than any other method. Nope that’s a cop out for lack of and/or inferior knowledge...but I’m sure they’re great guys...
To clarify, they heard one bull twice and never could pin point him. They heard a couple other bugles but they were all single responses or the elk moved out after responding. So what pet say was the best move in those situations. I’m being serious too.
To the inexperienced hunter like me, I didn’t see where they had all these options that keeps getting referred to. Other then being on the move at daylight. I’m serious too. We seem to have a lot of critique from experienced elk hunters. And, I’m Always up for learning.