Yes, I agree I will hunt Roosies one of these days just to dis spell the myth that they need to be hunted differently.
I did watch 15 minutes of their opener but couldn't get into their way of doing things & I lost interest. I'm sure if a guy watched all of everything you'd enjoy it but too much slapstick for me! (grin) Too, I would approach their calling style differently especially for those pre-rut dates. It seems they are always calling 'Angry'
A lot of newer hunters will most likely enjoy the series. As some mention it's better than those Private Land Ranch hunts on TV for sure!
Yes, they kill elk, but I guess what annoys me is how many elk they go through before they do. Certainly not bashing them at all, they appear to have a ton of fun & make money at it, can't argue with that! (grin)
For instance, notice how they approach situations with no rhyme or reason, they hear a bull at great distances & start bugling their way to them for the most part. They have no real plan, they use the same calling tactic on every elk, if it works; great, in most cases it does not so they look for another until they find an elk that does. I think they are used to expecting those things & are OK with it. Not me, I want to call in every bull I hear & some I don't hear but know they're there.
If they would focus more on what they're saying & what they're hearing from real bulls their success rate would be through the roof! By understanding the attitude & mood of each individual bull you can now tailor your calling (if needed) to what will interest them & not just toss any elk sound out there hoping something sticks!
I realize I'm a fanatic about such things so when I see encounters going south because hunters aren't communicating with elk instead they just toss out cow calls & bugles it drives me nuts! (big grin) My hats off to them for busting their rears & sharing their hunts with others no matter how they do it.
Paul this is no offense to you, as I very much look up to you as an elk hunting idol, but the main reason I and many people like the BRO guys is because of the simplicity of it all. Same with Corey Jacobsen and elk101 guys motto, get close, and try and piss them off, it's simple. Now I could do without all of the bromancing and hugging everytime something good happens, but overall enjoy the content.
I've watched all your videos, have your playbook, and even use your chuckler, but at times the intricate details and what seems like endless number of scenarios you go through makes it difficult to know what situation I'm even looking at based on their bugle/cows/etc...
That's the one of the great things about elk hunting though, different ways to get it done, you obviously have it figured out better than 99% of people including me; but I like it simple, hear bull, get close, make bull mad, kill bull. Take it for what it's worth as I've only been on 2 elk hunts but I'm 2/2 as a non-ressy on general tags and have many other great elk experiences that didn't end with an arrow flung but did have an awesome experience.
You should start filming your hunts as well Paul if you could swing it, there'd be a lot of interest I bet.
Everybody hunts the way they hunt, bowfreak. And thats ok. Honestly, its the best way, isnt it? If everybody liked hunting the sane way, we’d all be messin eachother up all the time.
The BRO boys and elknut each know how to kill elk and they differ on how that happens, thats plain and simple. IMO, He isnt bashing them, he just has deeper roots into knowing how to kill a bull in ANY situation vs just killing the kamakaze bulls. Nothing wrong with that. To me, its the same thing as a fly fisherman vs someone that uses a boat and trolls, or to keep it archery, the guy who hunts with a bow, a muzzleloader and/or a rifle when that season is in versus the guy who only bowhunts. Nothin wrong with any of it.
I enjoy all of the posts that each of you contribute. To me, you each are one of the many many many examples of why bowsite is a great place. Seems like a touch of animosity here, i hope like heck im wrong. Ur two of the good ones....
They kill elk and make for fun hunting. They kill elk every where they hunt, every year. It might be a numbers game with them but, I like their numbers. I think they'd be a hoot to hunt with. And, they do what everyone else does when they are close. They try to call the bull in and kill it. Not much market for videos of playing hide and seek with Bulls. And, when you hear a random bugle in a general direction you must locate it before charging in when the wind is in the elk's favor.
Are there better elk hunters? Probably. Many here could fight for that title. Are there better elk killers? Not sure of that. They roll into the unknowns and kill elk EVERY single year. Not one or two either. Wasn't that long ago they went to Wyoming and killed 7 for 7. In two weeks. Its a hoot to watch them.
You have a guy on here who is willing to give you the gold standard and you say he is jealous and he's too complicated for you? Stick n string laid it out for you. Fly fisherman vs. bait fisherman is a great analogy. Those guys are fun, and Paul is pointing out that there is more to it. He's at a different level. Both are way above my level, but I would like to learn as much of the subtleties as possible. The great majority on here are darn glad Paul is willing to share.
Occam's Razor is a theory applied to most scientific problem solving processes, as well as many aspects of elk hunting.
"Occam's razor, (also Ockham's "law of parsimony") is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions. The idea is attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian."
As a novice elk hunter from back east, the simplicity of the BRO's method is very appealing. And Paul's methods are as well, however for a guy like myself, there are so many situations Paul talks about, im not sure i could tell which one i might be in.
Case in point, i got into elk the last 3 days of my hunt this year. The 1st was them coming in silent in thick cover and just no opportunity for a shot. The last 2 i got into a couple bulls bugling and we went back and forth. Me cow calling and bugling and i just couldnt get him to close the distance and show himself. It was a blast but frustrating at the same time. Subtle didnt work and aggressive didnt work but it produced better results overall.
And even Cory's methods keep it simple, but i see where Paul is coming from too. For the seasoned successful elk hunter, IMO his methods are a refinement to an already good caller who recognizes and understands the situation they are in . But for us back east guys, its a lot to digest. And Paul, if you read this, Ive got your play book and at least one dvd. I think its good stuff, but i think a little overwhelming for new hunters.
I'm glad they are doing the drawings different this year, I like to wait to watch their videos and others till after all my seasons are over, last year I had to stay glued to the releases to get in the drawings, at least that is what I remember!
It's like the pickup lines in a bar. Some guys have one approach and get a girl regularly but may go through a few first. Then there's the guy who gets every pickup attempt he tries cause of a bigger bag of tricks
Guys, wow! Lots of info here! I appreciate most of the thoughts here & certainly we are all entitled to an opinion & I respect that, heck it's what makes the world go around! (grin)
I'd be the first to say that the BRO guys are doing the best they can, no one can take that from them & I believe no one is! But we can't help but watch videos they put out for public viewing. Many new hunters will imitate what they see, problem is they don't have 30 days to elk hunt, they need to take advantage of every encounter, you can only do this through understanding what makes elk tick certain times of Sept!
I agree they are entertaining but with all the prep work, miles & monies involved to line up & produce 50 days of elk hunting it's a bit more than just entertainment for them, in the long run they must show positive results & yes they do that but in-between the success they do miss out on a lot of golden opportunities they have with elk. I know, so what, we all do here & there! There's no way for them to script thick cover, wind switching at the last second, no elk in area or few elk at all! With these things in mind it's important to take advantage of every encounter even if it's one bugle from a bull especially on OTC public land hunts!
This means you need to understand Elk Behavior during different phases of the rut. The more knowledge & first hand experience we have the better we can adjust & tailor our setups & calling sequences to each bull as individuals. All bugles are not created equal & so they should not be responded to with one tone with the most emotion we can muster up. If we do this we we will lose out on a ton of encounters, if we insist on this path hopefully we have enough days to hunt until we find a bull that will cooperate!
Elk are flesh & blood as are we, they are not robots. Do we raise our voice to every guy we come in contact with or do we allow a situation to dictate our tone!
Elk hunting is no different! When we understand there's a time for social communication, rutting communication & a time for challenging situations then we are learning elk behavior!
If you hear one bugle as they did at a distance how would you approach this encounter to give yourself the best odds of killing that bull? Balls in your court!
Mark, you can't be serious! This isn't about money! It's about helping others to become better elk hunters! You do not have to buy a single thing from me, I will happily share anything you'd like to know. I know it seems like the way of the world but that is not me! Thank you!
True, getting out before light has its advantages! They mentioned that they were high up so were concerned with thermals going down to the elk so waited. I don't agree but that's just me! I find elk first, once found (through sound) like the BRO team I then evaluate & form a plan from that single response. Game on, anyone cane do it!
A couple things from the comments. 1.their style of tromping in forever and bugling might not make sense to a lot of elk hunters. But if you’ve spent much time hunting Roosevelt’s you would understand how hard it would be to film the hunt. I think their “catroad shuffle” allows to film and share the hunt. I’ve killed 5 Roosevelt’s in last 6 years and only 1 has been called in. I stalk and ambush with great success but filming is a whole nother thing. 2. As far as getting out before light...Trent is hunting 45 days in a row. I’m pretty gassed after 6-10 days in a row that I commonly do when I’m after it. I can’t imagine going before sun up to after sunset for 45-50 days! The way they prefer to hunt also plays in where they prefer to call the herd bull away while his cows are bedded and he will come away from them somewhat. Just a few thoughts on why they do what they do. Enjoy the series.
I can't help but be bothered about them waking up at O'dark thirty and still dicking around in camp well after the sun is up! HA HA! I couldn't hunt with someone that screws around for that long and is that unorganized, forgetting half their crap in camp. No way. It's their deal, so they can do what they want, just makes me cringe. Way too lackadaisical. Oh and the full volume talking in the woods, all the time. Oh well, I guess they kill a lot more elk than I do! LOL!
Even if they couldn’t get them first thing in the morning at least locate them then make a plan. All that being said, you can always get the wind right. Go around to the bottom, male a big circle, whatever. Would be better than walking around all afternoon complaining about no elk talking.
I agree mossyhorn. I get cranky when we hit the trail 10 minutes after we’re supposed to! I couldn’t imagine hanging around camp for a couple hours!
All that said, I enjoy the series very much. Well I enjoyed last years very much, this season had been booooooooring.
Looking back on their series, they only seem to "dick" around when they have somebody that is hunting with them like the Hush Crew and, the First Lite fella. So who is truly "dicking" around?
Here is why they are killers. They hunt extremely thick country at home. They hunt Elk that are tough to find in all that brush. They surely aren't the tacticians some here likely are. But they kill stuff. Isn't that what we are all trying to do? But, seeing and being able to truly develop a game plan is much easier in other elk country. In other words, if they kill there consistently, they will kill anywhere consistently.
I'm not defending them. But I'm not going to knock them either. I'm betting before the season is over, each one of them that hunts puts up as many kills as anyone here saying they are doing it wrong. Watch it for what it is. They are good elk hunters that hunt with some great elk hunters. It is going to get real soon enough.
There generally is no easy way to get to elk, those buggers seem to be in places they make us earn anything we get! (grin) The BRO guys do a great job covering ground & going where they hope to locate elk or in the general direction they heard one, I believe most here hunt in this manner?
I hunt timber country & call to locate as they do, very little glassing, we cover a lot of miles (my son & I) to find a bull, once one is heard we go to him unannounced the best we can, it doesn't matter where we start our hunt. We can be high, low & anywhere in-between, once elk is found through calling we then will worry about wind & position as we make our approach. I'm sure the BRO guys are similar in action. It's all about locating vocal elk, that's when the real hunt starts! We find so few elk these days in Idaho that we do everything we can to Call that bull in, we do not give up easily on any of them!
My earlier thoughts on their 'Leaving Things On The Table' was not a cut on them, it was an evaluation. I've found over the years & the many mistakes I used to make that it's important to listen to the Bugle & how many I heard no matter how it was heard. I listen to its tone & emotion, this will tell me what the attitude & mindset of the bull is, it could be a Lazy/Lethargic bed type bugle to a Challenge Bugle. The lazy bugles will get Slow Played & the Challenge Bugles or Aggressive Bugles will be played aggressively, this simple strategy works very well no matter if it's Pre-Rut or Peak Rut on OTC elk hunts. The Slow Played bull is the hardest, it requires patience & I must paint a picture in the bulls mind that plays on his curiosity, this is key when he is not in an aggressive mood, if I started out of the gate with aggressive action he will generally shut down or move off not to be heard from again. That would suck if I just rode 5-6 miles in on bikes as they did & finally found a bull late morning & walked for the next hour through a jungle! I need to be prepared physically & mentally & Always have a positive confident attitude.
Best odds to have a shot opportunity on that bull in heavy cover is to have a plan that will pull him to you, you are not going to sneak in on him. Being it's Aug 25th gets my full attention, this is huge & helps me to have a plan where my odds are very good to pull this bull in. Being late morning I know he's in his bedding area, I should have a captive audience plus there's a good chance there's additional bulls/satellites around. Get within a couple hundred yards of where I feel he is & go into an Advertising Sequence. (no cow calls) These bugles are more in the Lonesome Charlie variety, no challenging or obnoxious screaming for this tactic. This will get this bulls attention that you are not a bull he is familiar with being in his area, he will not know who you are by your bugles & this will intrigue him through your persistent/creative bugles, moans & groans along with subtle raking, this is how bulls will introduce themselves into a new area. This bull will want to check you out to size you up, he is not looking for a fight. Be persistent in your calling & have a good setup, the bull will most likely show up silent so be very watchful.
If he doesn't show in 20 minutes or so pull out a set of antlers, start rattling lightly & elevate the rattling so you know he can hear it, this shows a 2nd bull is there now & they are sparring, really play it up & down, be realistic! Play this up with stomping around & thrashing brush etc. You will be surprised how this simple technique can stir to action a bull who only bugled one time & showed no aggression, he will show up! This is what I was referring to in having a plan in place for this bull!
Please understand, I'm not stepping on toes here, just sharing some info that has upped my odds & treating bulls as individuals!
I could learn something from you Paul and I bet the BRO guys would to. They don’t seem like they are too prideful to learn. Kind of like when they were hunting with Jacobsen last year. They seemed to be lapping up the knowledge. I know this will gets some laughs, but you hunt elk similar to how I hunt turkeys. Very similar.
Bottom line...they love hunting with friends and family AND they pack meat out. Maybe not the way others here do, but so what. It’s their way...and I bet no one has anymore fun then these guys. Their mission, or passion, is to encourage others to get out and enjoy hunting with others. Good stuff!
It’s funny. They finally did the play people have been calling for and guess what? Wake up early, look for elk, don’t go in 100 mph, rake, etc. Could have been a coincidence, but it’s just funny that it played out like some have suggested and it worked!
Fun episode! A Stick bow in that country has to be crazy frustrating! At least with a flat shooting bow you can shoot through little openings!
When I watch the BRO guys I see guys I'd like to hunt with. Guys that like to have fun and still work hard at killing stuff. When did everything become so serious that you can't have a good time and a breakfast burrito once in awhile?
Curt, I'm sure they'd be a blast to hunt with, they're regular guys just like the rest of us! Not sure they'd want to hunt with an ole fart like me, I probably couldn't keep up with them! -- Anytime we're putting elk on the ground we're having fun! (grin)
Without seeing it. And to help someone like me, what exactly did they do that aligned with the responses here, different that made this successful for them. Versus what they had been doing?
To clarify, they heard one bull twice and never could pin point him. They heard a couple other bugles but they were all single responses or the elk moved out after responding. So what pet say was the best move in those situations. I’m being serious too.
To the inexperienced hunter like me, I didn’t see where they had all these options that keeps getting referred to. Other then being on the move at daylight. I’m serious too. We seem to have a lot of critique from experienced elk hunters. And, I’m Always up for learning.
Primos is entertainment, the BRO guys are more hardcore than that, I know they hunt mostly OTC units & not a bunch of private stuff. Anyone that puts that much work & money towards 40-50 days of elk hunting/filming is doing it for more than just kicks & giggles. I think as the days go by you'll see a more serious approach, it's their livelihood!
My Son & I hunted with a camera crew for 7 days this year & there's a lot of pressure on you getting the job done, yes we had good times with these guys but there's a very serious side to it as well. We all want to be successful & there's a self imposed amount of pressure to perform.
Rick, not sure about a sneak preview as I do not have any control over the tape. I do know it's being edited as there are over a 100 hours of it. Not sure how much will be left. I do know some of it will be at the Full Draw Film Tour. When done I should have my personal copy. I'd enjoy sharing it with those here when I have it. Thanks!
WV (Justin) I'd be happy to share some additional tactics I've used to pull those single bull bugles in with. It's one of my favorite times to call them. We get a lot of practice with those single bugles here in our pressured Idaho units! (grin) There's a good chance that's all you'll hear in a 7 day hunt, you'd better make the best of them. Gotta run at the moment!
Paul, more is better! Don’t let them edit it down to a couple hours! The BRO guys are doing it right. 40-60 minutes a day over the course of a week or 4 is way better than 45 minutes. We don’t just want a kill sequence, we want to see details, even if they seem “boring”.
But what I want to understand in this new Social Media age is are these guys making real money at making videos like this? These vids have got to take a buttload of time and money to produce. How could there possibly be enough return on investment to justify the time and resources spent? These are not bubba with a cell phone video. These are obviously professionally done. I can’t wrap my brain around the finances at work here. Someone do the math for me.
I believe only 2 of them quit the jobs...... the brother-in-laws. The HUSH guys....... not so sure about all 3, but I think the guy who killed the bull has been making $$$ off youtube for some time now.
And what exactly does “following” someone mean, or do for me? Just curious. I can go to you tube and watch whatever video I want anytime. Functionally speaking, why would I “follow” someone? Does that do something additional?
I subscribed to their channel a couple years ago when there was about 2000 people. Not many people pay well to advertise at 2000 subscribers. However, at 100,000 you get industry people wanting you to showcase their products. You get money from them and develop your brand to. sell. I only did it to help them out.
A western Timber cutter makes really big money if they hustle. So, I imagine they have to be making enough to finance the compromise. Adding in doing what you love and, that money isn’t everything and you get two guys trying to live their dream. I’ll help men like that everyday. Especially when all it takes is one mouse click of commitment.
I wish they’d quit telling everyone what state they hunt. Should see all the yahoos showing up in the elk woods blowing bugles every 300 yards til 11 am. Everyone has discovered elk hunting. It’s great for our sport but man some good areas have been ruined because of guys like them that showcase every otc state and what not.
funny you should say that...I saw in their latest they ran into 11 people in Colorado mountains who were there because they watched their videos LOL. so I guess it is affecting them to. Talking to a guy who said last year there was a lot more traffic than usual at their hunting area and it was attributed directly to these guys. double edge sword I guess.
I watched every BRO last season on TV (using Roku) with my family. Even my nonhunting wife was interested in their shows.
I bought a BRO shirt just to help support them. I once had what people would consider to be a "dream job" and it wasn't as glorious as it seemed. As WV mentioned I also subscribed because it means $$ for them and only costs me a mouse click.
Lol! This is funny! The BRO guys were hunting the same area unknown to us at the time as we do. My Son & I had headed to a spot an hour before light to an area we had taken a bull in a week earlier. When we got there there they were! We moved on. I heard from the guy they were with that they hunted it 2 days but no elk. They then moved from there aprox 10 miles & hunted there for 3 more days & no elk there.
I guess you never know where they may be! I doubt they'll be coming back to those areas anytime soon! In all fairness to them these elk are pretty tough to hunt, you get a lot of that one bugle in the a.m. & then zero.
It's not just the BRO guys bring more first time hunters into the woods. Anyone, everyone with a bow in their hands wants to kill a bull. The "all the guys walking around blowing bugles till 11" has been going on for years, way before the BRO guys. Archery elk hunting has become a big thing now, just show up in Colorado and you'll see. umlimited otc tags draws guys in from everywhere. I'm sure by the start of the second week, every elk has heard elk sounds from every call manufacture there is.
The guys are decent guys that made a name for themselves. Strange Cory stayed away from them this year, thought he'd join them for a hunt or two. I dunno... The younger generation has made the BRO guys, Phelps and Cory a lot of money. The younger generation eats up everything that these guys speak or do. That's their market target.
As for the guy shooting a stick bow not kneeling down, the arrow still has to arc up. Branches would of still been an issue. And staying standing allows you to move, while kneeling makes you have to move more in order to move or change positions. I won't kneel down to shoot an elk, trust my camo to do what it was designed to do.
Im gonna order some shirts and a hat from them. I have never bought from a youtube channel before, but I like the attitude of these guys and the Hunting Public guys so I guess ill throw them a little change.
Is it really that important to where the tag is? I think most states want it with the meat but rarely enforced as long as you have it & punched correctly. Of all the elk we've taken I've attached the tag to the antlers in every case, been checked multiple times & not once have I been questioned about it! -- I guess a lot depends on the officer.
I really don’t want to go into this again. I’ve typed, whined, moaned and complained about this multiple times here in the past. It did nothing but set my resolve to never return to Colorado. Then I grew up a little bit, accepted the wrong I had in it, and decide I was the only one losing out.
But, my second trip ever to Colorado, my buddy and myself Were both written tickets for improperly tagging a big game animal. Due to his tag being taped on his horns and, my tag being in my pocket and not with the meat of the cow I had killed a day earlier.
I believe the law to be stupid. But, as ridiculous as it sounds, it is the law. And as with many game laws across this country, it’s just open ended and ridiculous enough to be applied discretionally.
My thoughts before this mirrored yours. I’m glad you’ve had no troubles. Only thing I’ll say is you might be singing a different tune if you run into the wrong one. Prepare accordingly. Common sense only matters if the CO wants it too.
My first deer I killed in Colorado I stopped and talked to a fish and game cop and he asked me for my tag. We dug around for 10 minutes until we found it and he said “during transport, just keep the tag ON you so you can present it if requested.” Seemed logical and Ive done that since. Taping it to the horns just screams write me a ticket because I didn’t bother to know the law.
Thanks guys! You guys are right, I guess I've been very fortunate. It's a bummer some have had issues when the tag was punched & on the animal or on your person. Some officers plain take their jobs too seriously. If you're a true offender then I got it, outside of that it's B/S. I realize a law is a law but common sense needs to apply at some point!
Just went over the ID Regs, it says tag is to be attached to the carcass or any portion of boned out meat. I've not ever done this? It's been on the antlers every time & have never had it questioned! I guess ID officers are a bit more lien-ant! Hmm!
cnelk, no sir I do not hunt CO. I hunt mainly ID since this is where I live & tags are OTC. Our Regs read very similar to yours there in CO about attaching tag to meat or carcass for transport. I've not given it much thought over the years as to where the tag should be placed & have always secured it to the antlers. Yes, the regs do say apply to meat, you do have me wondering why they've never said anything about that? As I mentioned above they must not be as strict here.
If & when I hunt CO I'll be sure to attach to meat since they obviously are more strict. Thanks guys!
Really sad to see these guys blatantly disregard the fire ban in Colorado. I've hunted that exact area and drainages several times and there was a complete open fire ban in that area. Love their shows, but gotta say I lost a lot of respect for these guys.
I have only elk hunted a few times in my life, but I cringed when I heard them bugle at that elk that was standing at point blank range. I still enjoy their stuff as we wait on the rut down here in the deep south.
I do find it interesting that we complain about tv hunters hunting on private ranches and not showing how real people hunt and then these guys come along and show every day of their public land season and it seems that we are a little frustrated that it's slow. I'll admit I am speaking of myself as well, but if you think about it, their season thus far probably represents what it's like for a huge majority of public land hunters. I will say that I don't understand the late starts other than the fact that if I knew I would be elk hunting for a month and a half straight I more than likely wouldn't be in a huge hurry!
I would not chalk up this discussion to complaining. It's that many hunters here expect more from guys who put themselves in the public eye to perform with some expertise, instead they are seeing mistakes that they themselves make every year & were hoping to see how they overcome some of these issues, the biggest at this time being how to call in pre-rut bulls! It's an Art! -- As is seen quality Cow & Bull sounds alone is not the answer, it requires more for consistent success!
Grossklw (Luke) no offense sir but as you see these hunts take place it's obvious being Aggressive or Challenging to every bull regardless of their attitude/mindset especially pre-rut bulls can work against you. As hunters we need to adapt to these bulls & play on what will draw them in, basic cow sounds & bugles are not the answer. You may call it complex but it's not, it's the very tactic that is a game changer for these elk. Learn how to Slow Play a Breeding Sequence, it takes 5 minutes. Understanding why it works is as important as the Tactic itself! There's no more deadly calling sequence than this!
I'd save the Aggressive Challenges for the right bull & right time just as I would the Slow Play! Between these two a hunter would own the woods!
I will add that their Challenging style will have better effect on bulls as season progresses & cows show signs of estrus.
I've read this thread and kept my mouth shut, know how guys attack someone when they have a different view, but the attitude towards the BRO guys sure changed as the thread went on.
Paul is right, these guys are extremely aggressive and blow bull after bull out with their aggression. Bugling like that on a point blank bull blew my mind. Their calling is aggressive, no cow sounds till after the bull has ran off. Most of the bulls they work seem to be alone, but yet no cow or calf calls, just bugle bugle bugle. No stopping to test the temperature of the bulls, just go go go. And you'd think that after five days of blowing bulls out, they'd change areas, I dunno, but Paul is right on how they are or aren't working these bulls.
I have thoroughly enjoyed watching these guys over the years and have learned much from them. Now, the things I've learned, this year especially, are what NOT to do rather than what to do. I could not believe they had a bull at point blank range and then proceeded to bugle right in his face. That's not aggression, that's uhh, stupid. Plus, one of the guys does not know how to whisper. His talking during the call in has ruined several opportunities.
I have thoroughly this thread cuz yu are all right and I been there done all that as I'm sure a bunch of us all recognize. I'm a solo hunter and tried it all. I will say up front I've been very successful at the 60% level. I am hardcore and really focus on the animal. Both approaches, Paul's and the the fun Bro guys to watch. I've also guided and know that approach. It is all fun. I do believe you must stop and focus on the situation at hand. Aggressive or charge in. Go for it and have fun. Then tell us about it. I've screwed up and then killed an elk and thought I was an expert.
Jason Phelps bugles in the bulls face. Not a BRO guy. That was even addressed on the video that night. By the other shooter. Phelps did it to draw attention away from the other shooter because he thought the bull had saw him.
Their CO series definitely mimicked my season last year. Bulls that would bugle just a bit. And the only ones to show interest was sure protected by winds that changed by the minute.
Only thing I’ll say I know I’d done differently is not being ready to hunt when daylight comes. They seem to camp amongst the elk. But, sure are in no hurry to be ready to move on an early bugling bull. I’d been ready to move before it got light enough to shoot. Probably not the right thing to do in that situation but, a midday siesta makes up for the 1 hour earlier wake up.
Brad, camera was to the left of the shooter but the shooter was definitely not straight on. More of a hard quartering to. Had the bull just stood there and soaked up that arrow in the shirt pocket, I think he would have killed it.
Here is a quick screen shot of the arrow right before the bull moves, how is this a gargbage shot? The arrow looks like it’s on the correct trajectory many speak about in favor of the frontal or shirt pocket shot.
Saying it’s garbage is an opinion, but explaining why you feel that may help others learn. What can be learned.
I would not have taken the shot myself, if my pin housing was the same as the camera angle, but the shooter’s angle is not the camera angle.
I think the bull was pretty alert too. That may factor for some.
You are right me calling that shot garbage being my opinion. Maybe I should have kept it to myself as it was not a very nice post. I will explain.....
The camera is pointed between the shooters head and his pack so I am going to say the difference in angle between the two is minimal. Yes I agree they are not at the same angle but I don't think its enough for the shooter to have a better shot than what we are seeing. Again my opinion.
When I look at the arrow flight and consider time and trajectory I estimate the range at approximately 20 yards. I would not think it was much if any less based on the time of arrow flight.
The body position of the animal is quartering to. With any quartering to shot regardless if aiming in front of or behind the shoulder the size of the target or lethal shot placement area is reduced by a fair margin due to the shoulder and neck covering the vitals.
The animals alertness or readiness lets call it. The elk dropped what looked like 6" plus to me at the shot. If the lethal shot area is 6" and the range is 20 yards on an alert animal that can drop 6" chances are they will and the shot will not hit the animal where intended and has good chance of resulting in a wounded animal even if the shot is executed perfectly.
So to summarize he had a poor angle at a 20 yard range on an alert animal and he took a low percentage shot and then put it on youtube for all to see. Including the non hunting community.
Unless he is as green as grass which I doubt he is he knew the chances of that shot resulting in a lethal hit were pretty low and he shot anyway. I know we don't go hunting to pet them but this was poor judgment resulting in a wounded animal.
That is why I have the opinion of that being garbage. Oh and the comments by the other guy after the fact about how he did a good job and there was nothing that he could have done differently in that situation didn't help.
My first post was a little harsh and I didn't intend to offend with it or with this post
Yes, the shooter chose his shot as a last resort. You can see the bull peg him & cameraman, shooter got nervous & figured now or never! It's tough it worked out the way it did, no one likes losing an elk!
This is a big reason why the Caller should do his best to have an eye on the shooter where he sets up. This way he not only lures the bull in but he can read the body language of shooter. He sees him draw, he sees him moving slowly from left to right so the caller knows the bull is right there & coming. It's the callers job to put full focus on himself so the bull is unaware of the shooters existence especially when the bull is right there, he Must direct all the bulls attention to draw him by the shooter & not allow the bull to scan for a threat while still behind cover, easier said than done but with practice you get fairly decent at it!
Claimed shot distance was 24 yards. But the bull had them pegged big time. As soon as the bull turned right after clearing the brush he pulled up and snapped his view right on the shooter/camera. So the bull was wound tight and clearly evident on the video. For somebody with as much experience as Trevor, it was a poor shot decision regardless of what spin Bro puts on it. I am not anti-frontal, but didn't feel that was the right time for it.
We’ve all done things like this. We all still do things from time to time hunting, that experience has shown to be a bad decision. It’s easy to get caught up in the excitement.
I’m not defending him. I’m not down playing anything either. I’m just saying what I just said. Hunting isn’t a play act. It’s real. It’s intense. And it sometimes ends up getting botched up when you add an animal that has zero intentions of becoming supper.
He learned from it I’m sure. We don’t need to hash out the already known problems this situation presented before and after the shot. Because In the history of BRO, Trevor has been a stone cold killer. This time was different for him just like it’s been for every single one of us at times during our hunting.
Paul (ElkNut) I have to say I watch the things you say and I agree with your thoughts. It’s obvious you have much more knowledge and common sense on how to adapt to scenarios and different phases of the rut than these “internet stars.” It shows in your results. These guys have surfaced the fact that they really don’t know much and aren’t that great of hunters. Really not all that knowledgeable about elk habits or archery in general. Seems to me like it’s more talking to camera and entertaining than hunting. There style works about 2 weeks of sept and they don’t kill much else with their bows. They shot antelope and deer with rifles this fall. Carry on...
How do you explain last fall in Oregon? They stacked them up like cordwood in August with their style.
Saying they aren't that good of hunters is ridiculous. They have been shooting Rosies for years using their style. They are shooting public land and paper company bulls not private land or golf course elk They only went out of state for the first time a few years ago to Colorado and they used the very same methods to kill bulls in a spot they just blindly picked on the map.
Everyone agrees they are overly aggressive but so is Corey Jacobsen. I assume Corey knows something about elk but I haven't seen a Destination Elk thread yet to let me know.
I enjoy the BRO guys and their message that our public lands are there for anyone to enjoy!
I have and will continue to take frontal and quartering to shots. They have been very effective and lethal if shot placement is good. There is definitely a closer distance cap though. I would say that the bull being on point didn’t help his cause.
The arm chair quarterbacking on here makes me giggle.....I’m sure everyone that is beating them up has never made a bad shot or decision in the elk woods because nobody gets excited, nobody pulls a shot or hits a limb, nobody has had an elk or deer jump a string.
They searched for the rest of the day and grid searched with 6 guys to ensure it wasn’t a lost animal based on non lethal hit.
Good luck everyone on future hunts and enjoy our public lands.
I enjoy watching them and have followed them for a long time. I think they are doing great. And they are or have been traditionally very successful at their method. Definitely in the 10% club most years for punching tags. I don’t have to agree with every shot angle they take or method they employ.
Read any elk forum on here any day of the week and we see the same thing between the regulars here, agreeing and disagreeing over and over and over again. From shot angles, to how to call, to how to hunt and what to wear while doing it. It’s all helpful when learning can be obtained. Sometimes it not helpful at all especially, when it’s just a pissing match.
I agree their message to get out and enjoy the public lands is a good message to herald.
Giving opinions and supporting those opinions based on their content is helpful for learning.
The comments that degrade these guys for no other reason are not helpful.
I feel confident in saying they show it as it happens too. So many shows don’t show what really happened and anybody that really hunts a bunch knows things go wrong sometimes and in my opinion it’s what you do when things go wrong that defines you. Not the internet armchair quarterbacks.
Yeah..... I know joehunter is a killer and I like his stuff a lot, but he obviously didn’t follow last year. They admitted to a banner year last year and this year just ain’t been good. I also get tickled at the guys who always make perfect decisions in the woods.
Lol bowfreak as I said they haven’t killed much else (species, locations, different times of years) with their bows. That’s all I’m sayin. Last season they were in their home turf and did very well. Compared to guys like Nate Simmons who are well rounded western hunters who know how to adapt and are successful in a variety of conditions. Anyways they seem like cool guys that would be fun to hangout with. I’m heading out in the morning for a couple late season archery hunts. Enough internet squabble for me. Hope you all had a good holiday last week
I had not seen this discussion until today- I've been busy watching LOF 2.0 and Destination Elk (grin)
Two comments/ observations: Last season Trent said that 80% of the ELK they have taken hunting Orygun coastal Roosys were taken mid dy to early afternoon. Rather than try to catch them in the cutovers- they had better success finding where they've bedded and set up for them in the edges
Corey found a note on his truck from another bowhunter stating " You bugle way too much". This was after they were packing out a nice 6X.
Easy to quarterback from the arm chair. I'm a match the call kind of hunter like Paul but can't chuckle worth a darn and sure enjoy the clinics Corey and Dirk put on. The BRO boys have picked up some chuckling skills watching those two.
After watching pretty much all the Born and Raised and Elk 101 youtube shows the thing that stands out to me is there unselfish approach. 1 or 2 guys with a tag and the rest there for calling, filming and support. All with pretty much the same physical abilities. They have no limitations on where they can go or what distance they can travel. They are willing to go after bugles that most guys would say are to far or in to nasty a place to go. They have plenty of guys for any pack out. Plus, they are in the woods all day when most are at camp. I wonder when they are still at camp after sun up, but they seem to do just fine. Could be they wait for the elk to get to there bedding area and that way they do not have the early morning chase. If the bull is still bugling mid morning then he is aggressive and they can call him in. Can not wait to see what happens in Wy. Hot dry - I was there!
I am a solo hunter for the most part even when I am in camp with others but I complement what the Bros, Cory and Hush do with their unselfish team approach (camera guy, caller, shooter - repeat.) It works for them, they love each other and are motivating a portion of the hunting public to figure this out and go spend some days in the woods. It certainly doesn't take anything away from my much different approach but I feel they add somethin positive to our hunting community, especially the younger flat brim crowd.
"I heard Trent say their favorite time to call in a bull is between 11 and 3."
I keep hearing this over and over, but I don't know how guys pull this off. I sat on multiple bulls this year screaming all day long and every time I tried to get in, the wind was everywhere. I never did kill one of those mid day screamers so I guess I should have just went at them anyways.
Cazador, they are most likely referring to hunting at those times in dark timber, wind is a bit more stable in that environment than in semi open terrain, too they are making sure the elk are in their bedding area.
For us hunting dark timber we take 90% of our elk by 10:30 a.m. The difference is we search out areas where elk feed & bed in the same areas thus locating them by daylight we know they stay there the remainder of the day, these are true honey-holes!
Just watched the latest video and the guys found an old, small diameter tube with a partly decomposed wooden mouthpiece. They weren't sure what it was, although they correctly guessed that it was an old time bugle. It is exactly the same as the first one I ever owned. They encouraged someone that knew what it was to comment on their site, but I don't do any social media and couldn't find another way to contact them. In any case, if any of those guys read this, you're right, it's an old school bugle. If anyone here knows how to comment on their videos, feel free to let them know that it is definitely an old bugle from the 70's or early 80's.
I have never seen winds so unstable as this year in Colorado. I don't have a lot of experience to go on but, this was the sane area I have always hunted and it was ridiculous compared to previous years. Didn't matter what time of day either. Thermals applied but, you'd get a stray shift from no where with no warning. By 9 AM, you'd got dizzy trying to fly a kite if you'd turned with the wind direction. Evenings were worse.
I'm a little behind on this too because besides being busy hunting I watched the Hunting Public Deer Tour and Corey's Destination Elk before I started watching Land of the Free 2.0. Actually that's not 100% true, I started on Land of the Free and decided I wanted to see some elk hunting rather than the comedy act competition that it seems like BRO has become so I switched over to Destination Elk. I like to joke around as much as the next guy but their mindless banter gets a little old. Sometimes I find myself thinking "just shut up and hunt".
I like the BRO guys but I don't always agree with their tactics. Also, it's kind of driving me nuts how much they talk and how loud they talk. I wonder how many elk have heard them talk and vacated the area... It amazes me that they will sit there talking very loud to each other and then bugle. If a bull can hear their bugle there's a good chance that he'll hear them talking too. I don't think they give the elk's hearing enough credit. I remember one time I was elk hunting and I was sitting on a high vantage point watching the area below me. Three guys stepped out into the edge of a meadow and stood there talking for a while. They were almost a quarter of a mile away from me and I could hear them very well. After they talked for a while they pulled out a bugle and bugled a few times. I'm guessing that any fairly close bull could have heard them talking...
They struggled mightily with the wind when they first went to Colorado. I can't remember what season or video this was but they blew a bunch of setups because of swirling winds. They had never been out of state before and were just hunting the way they did in OR. Was a big learning experience for them. They ran through a bunch of bulls and eventually they hit a few where the wind held and they killed them. I think they are much more cautious with the wind now but I think they are super aggressive and probably push the issue on setups more than they are cautious. I think they look at it as "what the heck, we'll find another one."
It could be the areas they hunt as well. My area has the most consistent winds when it comes to elk hunting. No fronts, or storms on the horizon I can look at a drainage and tell you what the winds doing most times. That's not some gift I have, it's just that the area has consistent winds unlike above treeline etc.
After a certain time in the AM, until a certain time in the PM, forget it. It just doesn't hold. We got burnt this year on a big bull. It almost happened that we killed him, but long story short, we didn't and I killed his buddy 1.5 hours later.
We were in camp right above that bull ripping all day, and my partner just couldn't wait a couple more hours and said "Lets go". So, we went.