Yes, I agree I will hunt Roosies one of these days just to dis spell the myth that they need to be hunted differently.
I did watch 15 minutes of their opener but couldn't get into their way of doing things & I lost interest. I'm sure if a guy watched all of everything you'd enjoy it but too much slapstick for me! (grin) Too, I would approach their calling style differently especially for those pre-rut dates. It seems they are always calling 'Angry'
A lot of newer hunters will most likely enjoy the series. As some mention it's better than those Private Land Ranch hunts on TV for sure!
Yes, they kill elk, but I guess what annoys me is how many elk they go through before they do. Certainly not bashing them at all, they appear to have a ton of fun & make money at it, can't argue with that! (grin)
For instance, notice how they approach situations with no rhyme or reason, they hear a bull at great distances & start bugling their way to them for the most part. They have no real plan, they use the same calling tactic on every elk, if it works; great, in most cases it does not so they look for another until they find an elk that does. I think they are used to expecting those things & are OK with it. Not me, I want to call in every bull I hear & some I don't hear but know they're there.
If they would focus more on what they're saying & what they're hearing from real bulls their success rate would be through the roof! By understanding the attitude & mood of each individual bull you can now tailor your calling (if needed) to what will interest them & not just toss any elk sound out there hoping something sticks!
I realize I'm a fanatic about such things so when I see encounters going south because hunters aren't communicating with elk instead they just toss out cow calls & bugles it drives me nuts! (big grin) My hats off to them for busting their rears & sharing their hunts with others no matter how they do it.
Paul this is no offense to you, as I very much look up to you as an elk hunting idol, but the main reason I and many people like the BRO guys is because of the simplicity of it all. Same with Corey Jacobsen and elk101 guys motto, get close, and try and piss them off, it's simple. Now I could do without all of the bromancing and hugging everytime something good happens, but overall enjoy the content.
I've watched all your videos, have your playbook, and even use your chuckler, but at times the intricate details and what seems like endless number of scenarios you go through makes it difficult to know what situation I'm even looking at based on their bugle/cows/etc...
That's the one of the great things about elk hunting though, different ways to get it done, you obviously have it figured out better than 99% of people including me; but I like it simple, hear bull, get close, make bull mad, kill bull. Take it for what it's worth as I've only been on 2 elk hunts but I'm 2/2 as a non-ressy on general tags and have many other great elk experiences that didn't end with an arrow flung but did have an awesome experience.
You should start filming your hunts as well Paul if you could swing it, there'd be a lot of interest I bet.
Everybody hunts the way they hunt, bowfreak. And thats ok. Honestly, its the best way, isnt it? If everybody liked hunting the sane way, we’d all be messin eachother up all the time.
The BRO boys and elknut each know how to kill elk and they differ on how that happens, thats plain and simple. IMO, He isnt bashing them, he just has deeper roots into knowing how to kill a bull in ANY situation vs just killing the kamakaze bulls. Nothing wrong with that. To me, its the same thing as a fly fisherman vs someone that uses a boat and trolls, or to keep it archery, the guy who hunts with a bow, a muzzleloader and/or a rifle when that season is in versus the guy who only bowhunts. Nothin wrong with any of it.
I enjoy all of the posts that each of you contribute. To me, you each are one of the many many many examples of why bowsite is a great place. Seems like a touch of animosity here, i hope like heck im wrong. Ur two of the good ones....
They kill elk and make for fun hunting. They kill elk every where they hunt, every year. It might be a numbers game with them but, I like their numbers. I think they'd be a hoot to hunt with. And, they do what everyone else does when they are close. They try to call the bull in and kill it. Not much market for videos of playing hide and seek with Bulls. And, when you hear a random bugle in a general direction you must locate it before charging in when the wind is in the elk's favor.
Are there better elk hunters? Probably. Many here could fight for that title. Are there better elk killers? Not sure of that. They roll into the unknowns and kill elk EVERY single year. Not one or two either. Wasn't that long ago they went to Wyoming and killed 7 for 7. In two weeks. Its a hoot to watch them.
You have a guy on here who is willing to give you the gold standard and you say he is jealous and he's too complicated for you? Stick n string laid it out for you. Fly fisherman vs. bait fisherman is a great analogy. Those guys are fun, and Paul is pointing out that there is more to it. He's at a different level. Both are way above my level, but I would like to learn as much of the subtleties as possible. The great majority on here are darn glad Paul is willing to share.
Occam's Razor is a theory applied to most scientific problem solving processes, as well as many aspects of elk hunting.
"Occam's razor, (also Ockham's "law of parsimony") is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions. The idea is attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian."
As a novice elk hunter from back east, the simplicity of the BRO's method is very appealing. And Paul's methods are as well, however for a guy like myself, there are so many situations Paul talks about, im not sure i could tell which one i might be in.
Case in point, i got into elk the last 3 days of my hunt this year. The 1st was them coming in silent in thick cover and just no opportunity for a shot. The last 2 i got into a couple bulls bugling and we went back and forth. Me cow calling and bugling and i just couldnt get him to close the distance and show himself. It was a blast but frustrating at the same time. Subtle didnt work and aggressive didnt work but it produced better results overall.
And even Cory's methods keep it simple, but i see where Paul is coming from too. For the seasoned successful elk hunter, IMO his methods are a refinement to an already good caller who recognizes and understands the situation they are in . But for us back east guys, its a lot to digest. And Paul, if you read this, Ive got your play book and at least one dvd. I think its good stuff, but i think a little overwhelming for new hunters.
I'm glad they are doing the drawings different this year, I like to wait to watch their videos and others till after all my seasons are over, last year I had to stay glued to the releases to get in the drawings, at least that is what I remember!
It's like the pickup lines in a bar. Some guys have one approach and get a girl regularly but may go through a few first. Then there's the guy who gets every pickup attempt he tries cause of a bigger bag of tricks
Guys, wow! Lots of info here! I appreciate most of the thoughts here & certainly we are all entitled to an opinion & I respect that, heck it's what makes the world go around! (grin)
I'd be the first to say that the BRO guys are doing the best they can, no one can take that from them & I believe no one is! But we can't help but watch videos they put out for public viewing. Many new hunters will imitate what they see, problem is they don't have 30 days to elk hunt, they need to take advantage of every encounter, you can only do this through understanding what makes elk tick certain times of Sept!
I agree they are entertaining but with all the prep work, miles & monies involved to line up & produce 50 days of elk hunting it's a bit more than just entertainment for them, in the long run they must show positive results & yes they do that but in-between the success they do miss out on a lot of golden opportunities they have with elk. I know, so what, we all do here & there! There's no way for them to script thick cover, wind switching at the last second, no elk in area or few elk at all! With these things in mind it's important to take advantage of every encounter even if it's one bugle from a bull especially on OTC public land hunts!
This means you need to understand Elk Behavior during different phases of the rut. The more knowledge & first hand experience we have the better we can adjust & tailor our setups & calling sequences to each bull as individuals. All bugles are not created equal & so they should not be responded to with one tone with the most emotion we can muster up. If we do this we we will lose out on a ton of encounters, if we insist on this path hopefully we have enough days to hunt until we find a bull that will cooperate!
Elk are flesh & blood as are we, they are not robots. Do we raise our voice to every guy we come in contact with or do we allow a situation to dictate our tone!
Elk hunting is no different! When we understand there's a time for social communication, rutting communication & a time for challenging situations then we are learning elk behavior!
If you hear one bugle as they did at a distance how would you approach this encounter to give yourself the best odds of killing that bull? Balls in your court!
Mark, you can't be serious! This isn't about money! It's about helping others to become better elk hunters! You do not have to buy a single thing from me, I will happily share anything you'd like to know. I know it seems like the way of the world but that is not me! Thank you!
True, getting out before light has its advantages! They mentioned that they were high up so were concerned with thermals going down to the elk so waited. I don't agree but that's just me! I find elk first, once found (through sound) like the BRO team I then evaluate & form a plan from that single response. Game on, anyone cane do it!
A couple things from the comments. 1.their style of tromping in forever and bugling might not make sense to a lot of elk hunters. But if you’ve spent much time hunting Roosevelt’s you would understand how hard it would be to film the hunt. I think their “catroad shuffle” allows to film and share the hunt. I’ve killed 5 Roosevelt’s in last 6 years and only 1 has been called in. I stalk and ambush with great success but filming is a whole nother thing. 2. As far as getting out before light...Trent is hunting 45 days in a row. I’m pretty gassed after 6-10 days in a row that I commonly do when I’m after it. I can’t imagine going before sun up to after sunset for 45-50 days! The way they prefer to hunt also plays in where they prefer to call the herd bull away while his cows are bedded and he will come away from them somewhat. Just a few thoughts on why they do what they do. Enjoy the series.
I can't help but be bothered about them waking up at O'dark thirty and still dicking around in camp well after the sun is up! HA HA! I couldn't hunt with someone that screws around for that long and is that unorganized, forgetting half their crap in camp. No way. It's their deal, so they can do what they want, just makes me cringe. Way too lackadaisical. Oh and the full volume talking in the woods, all the time. Oh well, I guess they kill a lot more elk than I do! LOL!
Even if they couldn’t get them first thing in the morning at least locate them then make a plan. All that being said, you can always get the wind right. Go around to the bottom, male a big circle, whatever. Would be better than walking around all afternoon complaining about no elk talking.
I agree mossyhorn. I get cranky when we hit the trail 10 minutes after we’re supposed to! I couldn’t imagine hanging around camp for a couple hours!
All that said, I enjoy the series very much. Well I enjoyed last years very much, this season had been booooooooring.
Looking back on their series, they only seem to "dick" around when they have somebody that is hunting with them like the Hush Crew and, the First Lite fella. So who is truly "dicking" around?
Here is why they are killers. They hunt extremely thick country at home. They hunt Elk that are tough to find in all that brush. They surely aren't the tacticians some here likely are. But they kill stuff. Isn't that what we are all trying to do? But, seeing and being able to truly develop a game plan is much easier in other elk country. In other words, if they kill there consistently, they will kill anywhere consistently.
I'm not defending them. But I'm not going to knock them either. I'm betting before the season is over, each one of them that hunts puts up as many kills as anyone here saying they are doing it wrong. Watch it for what it is. They are good elk hunters that hunt with some great elk hunters. It is going to get real soon enough.
There generally is no easy way to get to elk, those buggers seem to be in places they make us earn anything we get! (grin) The BRO guys do a great job covering ground & going where they hope to locate elk or in the general direction they heard one, I believe most here hunt in this manner?
I hunt timber country & call to locate as they do, very little glassing, we cover a lot of miles (my son & I) to find a bull, once one is heard we go to him unannounced the best we can, it doesn't matter where we start our hunt. We can be high, low & anywhere in-between, once elk is found through calling we then will worry about wind & position as we make our approach. I'm sure the BRO guys are similar in action. It's all about locating vocal elk, that's when the real hunt starts! We find so few elk these days in Idaho that we do everything we can to Call that bull in, we do not give up easily on any of them!
My earlier thoughts on their 'Leaving Things On The Table' was not a cut on them, it was an evaluation. I've found over the years & the many mistakes I used to make that it's important to listen to the Bugle & how many I heard no matter how it was heard. I listen to its tone & emotion, this will tell me what the attitude & mindset of the bull is, it could be a Lazy/Lethargic bed type bugle to a Challenge Bugle. The lazy bugles will get Slow Played & the Challenge Bugles or Aggressive Bugles will be played aggressively, this simple strategy works very well no matter if it's Pre-Rut or Peak Rut on OTC elk hunts. The Slow Played bull is the hardest, it requires patience & I must paint a picture in the bulls mind that plays on his curiosity, this is key when he is not in an aggressive mood, if I started out of the gate with aggressive action he will generally shut down or move off not to be heard from again. That would suck if I just rode 5-6 miles in on bikes as they did & finally found a bull late morning & walked for the next hour through a jungle! I need to be prepared physically & mentally & Always have a positive confident attitude.
Best odds to have a shot opportunity on that bull in heavy cover is to have a plan that will pull him to you, you are not going to sneak in on him. Being it's Aug 25th gets my full attention, this is huge & helps me to have a plan where my odds are very good to pull this bull in. Being late morning I know he's in his bedding area, I should have a captive audience plus there's a good chance there's additional bulls/satellites around. Get within a couple hundred yards of where I feel he is & go into an Advertising Sequence. (no cow calls) These bugles are more in the Lonesome Charlie variety, no challenging or obnoxious screaming for this tactic. This will get this bulls attention that you are not a bull he is familiar with being in his area, he will not know who you are by your bugles & this will intrigue him through your persistent/creative bugles, moans & groans along with subtle raking, this is how bulls will introduce themselves into a new area. This bull will want to check you out to size you up, he is not looking for a fight. Be persistent in your calling & have a good setup, the bull will most likely show up silent so be very watchful.
If he doesn't show in 20 minutes or so pull out a set of antlers, start rattling lightly & elevate the rattling so you know he can hear it, this shows a 2nd bull is there now & they are sparring, really play it up & down, be realistic! Play this up with stomping around & thrashing brush etc. You will be surprised how this simple technique can stir to action a bull who only bugled one time & showed no aggression, he will show up! This is what I was referring to in having a plan in place for this bull!
Please understand, I'm not stepping on toes here, just sharing some info that has upped my odds & treating bulls as individuals!
I could learn something from you Paul and I bet the BRO guys would to. They don’t seem like they are too prideful to learn. Kind of like when they were hunting with Jacobsen last year. They seemed to be lapping up the knowledge. I know this will gets some laughs, but you hunt elk similar to how I hunt turkeys. Very similar.
Bottom line...they love hunting with friends and family AND they pack meat out. Maybe not the way others here do, but so what. It’s their way...and I bet no one has anymore fun then these guys. Their mission, or passion, is to encourage others to get out and enjoy hunting with others. Good stuff!
It’s funny. They finally did the play people have been calling for and guess what? Wake up early, look for elk, don’t go in 100 mph, rake, etc. Could have been a coincidence, but it’s just funny that it played out like some have suggested and it worked!
Fun episode! A Stick bow in that country has to be crazy frustrating! At least with a flat shooting bow you can shoot through little openings!
When I watch the BRO guys I see guys I'd like to hunt with. Guys that like to have fun and still work hard at killing stuff. When did everything become so serious that you can't have a good time and a breakfast burrito once in awhile?
Curt, I'm sure they'd be a blast to hunt with, they're regular guys just like the rest of us! Not sure they'd want to hunt with an ole fart like me, I probably couldn't keep up with them! -- Anytime we're putting elk on the ground we're having fun! (grin)
Without seeing it. And to help someone like me, what exactly did they do that aligned with the responses here, different that made this successful for them. Versus what they had been doing?
To clarify, they heard one bull twice and never could pin point him. They heard a couple other bugles but they were all single responses or the elk moved out after responding. So what pet say was the best move in those situations. I’m being serious too.
To the inexperienced hunter like me, I didn’t see where they had all these options that keeps getting referred to. Other then being on the move at daylight. I’m serious too. We seem to have a lot of critique from experienced elk hunters. And, I’m Always up for learning.
Primos is entertainment, the BRO guys are more hardcore than that, I know they hunt mostly OTC units & not a bunch of private stuff. Anyone that puts that much work & money towards 40-50 days of elk hunting/filming is doing it for more than just kicks & giggles. I think as the days go by you'll see a more serious approach, it's their livelihood!
My Son & I hunted with a camera crew for 7 days this year & there's a lot of pressure on you getting the job done, yes we had good times with these guys but there's a very serious side to it as well. We all want to be successful & there's a self imposed amount of pressure to perform.
Rick, not sure about a sneak preview as I do not have any control over the tape. I do know it's being edited as there are over a 100 hours of it. Not sure how much will be left. I do know some of it will be at the Full Draw Film Tour. When done I should have my personal copy. I'd enjoy sharing it with those here when I have it. Thanks!
WV (Justin) I'd be happy to share some additional tactics I've used to pull those single bull bugles in with. It's one of my favorite times to call them. We get a lot of practice with those single bugles here in our pressured Idaho units! (grin) There's a good chance that's all you'll hear in a 7 day hunt, you'd better make the best of them. Gotta run at the moment!
Paul, more is better! Don’t let them edit it down to a couple hours! The BRO guys are doing it right. 40-60 minutes a day over the course of a week or 4 is way better than 45 minutes. We don’t just want a kill sequence, we want to see details, even if they seem “boring”.
But what I want to understand in this new Social Media age is are these guys making real money at making videos like this? These vids have got to take a buttload of time and money to produce. How could there possibly be enough return on investment to justify the time and resources spent? These are not bubba with a cell phone video. These are obviously professionally done. I can’t wrap my brain around the finances at work here. Someone do the math for me.
I believe only 2 of them quit the jobs...... the brother-in-laws. The HUSH guys....... not so sure about all 3, but I think the guy who killed the bull has been making $$$ off youtube for some time now.
And what exactly does “following” someone mean, or do for me? Just curious. I can go to you tube and watch whatever video I want anytime. Functionally speaking, why would I “follow” someone? Does that do something additional?
I subscribed to their channel a couple years ago when there was about 2000 people. Not many people pay well to advertise at 2000 subscribers. However, at 100,000 you get industry people wanting you to showcase their products. You get money from them and develop your brand to. sell. I only did it to help them out.
A western Timber cutter makes really big money if they hustle. So, I imagine they have to be making enough to finance the compromise. Adding in doing what you love and, that money isn’t everything and you get two guys trying to live their dream. I’ll help men like that everyday. Especially when all it takes is one mouse click of commitment.
I wish they’d quit telling everyone what state they hunt. Should see all the yahoos showing up in the elk woods blowing bugles every 300 yards til 11 am. Everyone has discovered elk hunting. It’s great for our sport but man some good areas have been ruined because of guys like them that showcase every otc state and what not.
funny you should say that...I saw in their latest they ran into 11 people in Colorado mountains who were there because they watched their videos LOL. so I guess it is affecting them to. Talking to a guy who said last year there was a lot more traffic than usual at their hunting area and it was attributed directly to these guys. double edge sword I guess.
I watched every BRO last season on TV (using Roku) with my family. Even my nonhunting wife was interested in their shows.
I bought a BRO shirt just to help support them. I once had what people would consider to be a "dream job" and it wasn't as glorious as it seemed. As WV mentioned I also subscribed because it means $$ for them and only costs me a mouse click.
Lol! This is funny! The BRO guys were hunting the same area unknown to us at the time as we do. My Son & I had headed to a spot an hour before light to an area we had taken a bull in a week earlier. When we got there there they were! We moved on. I heard from the guy they were with that they hunted it 2 days but no elk. They then moved from there aprox 10 miles & hunted there for 3 more days & no elk there.
I guess you never know where they may be! I doubt they'll be coming back to those areas anytime soon! In all fairness to them these elk are pretty tough to hunt, you get a lot of that one bugle in the a.m. & then zero.
It's not just the BRO guys bring more first time hunters into the woods. Anyone, everyone with a bow in their hands wants to kill a bull. The "all the guys walking around blowing bugles till 11" has been going on for years, way before the BRO guys. Archery elk hunting has become a big thing now, just show up in Colorado and you'll see. umlimited otc tags draws guys in from everywhere. I'm sure by the start of the second week, every elk has heard elk sounds from every call manufacture there is.
The guys are decent guys that made a name for themselves. Strange Cory stayed away from them this year, thought he'd join them for a hunt or two. I dunno... The younger generation has made the BRO guys, Phelps and Cory a lot of money. The younger generation eats up everything that these guys speak or do. That's their market target.
As for the guy shooting a stick bow not kneeling down, the arrow still has to arc up. Branches would of still been an issue. And staying standing allows you to move, while kneeling makes you have to move more in order to move or change positions. I won't kneel down to shoot an elk, trust my camo to do what it was designed to do.
Im gonna order some shirts and a hat from them. I have never bought from a youtube channel before, but I like the attitude of these guys and the Hunting Public guys so I guess ill throw them a little change.
Is it really that important to where the tag is? I think most states want it with the meat but rarely enforced as long as you have it & punched correctly. Of all the elk we've taken I've attached the tag to the antlers in every case, been checked multiple times & not once have I been questioned about it! -- I guess a lot depends on the officer.
I really don’t want to go into this again. I’ve typed, whined, moaned and complained about this multiple times here in the past. It did nothing but set my resolve to never return to Colorado. Then I grew up a little bit, accepted the wrong I had in it, and decide I was the only one losing out.
But, my second trip ever to Colorado, my buddy and myself Were both written tickets for improperly tagging a big game animal. Due to his tag being taped on his horns and, my tag being in my pocket and not with the meat of the cow I had killed a day earlier.
I believe the law to be stupid. But, as ridiculous as it sounds, it is the law. And as with many game laws across this country, it’s just open ended and ridiculous enough to be applied discretionally.
My thoughts before this mirrored yours. I’m glad you’ve had no troubles. Only thing I’ll say is you might be singing a different tune if you run into the wrong one. Prepare accordingly. Common sense only matters if the CO wants it too.
My first deer I killed in Colorado I stopped and talked to a fish and game cop and he asked me for my tag. We dug around for 10 minutes until we found it and he said “during transport, just keep the tag ON you so you can present it if requested.” Seemed logical and Ive done that since. Taping it to the horns just screams write me a ticket because I didn’t bother to know the law.
Thanks guys! You guys are right, I guess I've been very fortunate. It's a bummer some have had issues when the tag was punched & on the animal or on your person. Some officers plain take their jobs too seriously. If you're a true offender then I got it, outside of that it's B/S. I realize a law is a law but common sense needs to apply at some point!
Just went over the ID Regs, it says tag is to be attached to the carcass or any portion of boned out meat. I've not ever done this? It's been on the antlers every time & have never had it questioned! I guess ID officers are a bit more lien-ant! Hmm!
cnelk, no sir I do not hunt CO. I hunt mainly ID since this is where I live & tags are OTC. Our Regs read very similar to yours there in CO about attaching tag to meat or carcass for transport. I've not given it much thought over the years as to where the tag should be placed & have always secured it to the antlers. Yes, the regs do say apply to meat, you do have me wondering why they've never said anything about that? As I mentioned above they must not be as strict here.
If & when I hunt CO I'll be sure to attach to meat since they obviously are more strict. Thanks guys!
Really sad to see these guys blatantly disregard the fire ban in Colorado. I've hunted that exact area and drainages several times and there was a complete open fire ban in that area. Love their shows, but gotta say I lost a lot of respect for these guys.