Contributors to this thread:
Heard some great news for the entire archery industry/sport, today.
Congrats on your retirement!!
I hate to give Trial credit but that was good.
Hahaha Haha Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT a double post!
I just spit-up my beer. That was good.
What award did you win John?
It took most of the year but that is most definitely the funniest post of 2018. I seriously doubt it will be topped.
Crossbows have been outlawed during archery seasons ?? ........... yea !!
why do they sell a full chair when John’s always got me on the edge of my seat?!
Trial- excellent post!
I assumed backpatter was banned from bowsite. Given that he's the OP I guess that's not it.
One of the big bow companies publicly voicing what many major manufacturers are realizing?
Trial you win the Internet today.
Sorry-Just noticed the last two sentences on my post somehow got deleted. But after seeing all the warm posts. I'll just leave it, as is. I suspect in time, you'll hear of the major merger.
Thank you, and while your at it just leave all threads as is
You are among the best
Sorry-Just noticed the last two sentences on my post above somehow got deleted. But I'll just leave it, as is.
His chance at a Hall of Flame award just went way up.
Typical big money manufacturer. If theres money to be made, the hell with everything. Now that there isnt the money they thought, we have to re-think this..... LOL!
Something I don't get about Glunt's link. If they're all about the money, why do they care if they're selling more crossbows ? It seems like high end crosdbows sell for more than high end vertical bows, but then I'm easily confused.......
Because crossbows require less pro shops and local pro shops are a big driving force in getting and keeping people interested in bowhunting. Knowledge, youth programs, a place to shoot, instruction, leagues, etc., help boost interest, recruit new bowhunters and obviously sells a lot of bows, arrows, accessories and so on. Also, a crossbow is easily shared by a family instead of everyone needing their own bow and needing to shoot it and keep it tuned up regularly.
The original thought was crossbows could add some sales dollars and attract some new people to bowhunting. They do both but what some people didn't see, refused to see, or didn't care about was that it would shrink the existing market centered around hunting with bows. Pushing crossbows had some benefits but it does not benefit bowhunting.
Dry.....I think the jest of the article that Pete S. is talking about was they (PSE) thought by including crossbows in the regular bow season it would bring in more hunters and according to the article it has not. It could be because of the cost of crossbows, and for that matter vert bows....hunter numbers are declining. Alot of young folks can't afford to get into hunting (equipment, clothes, licenses, travel, time off from work/school, etc) and old timers at the other end of the pipeline are not hunting much or at all. The input into the pipeline can't keep up with the exit at the other end.....hence declining hunter numbers. Extremely expensive NR license costs certainly don't help the hunter numbers...in reality that cost probably hurts it.
Drycreek, because most of these guys are not buying name brand crossbows. There’s a glut of cheap but perfectly functional crossbows for sale in box stores and amazon. Plus the guys that buy crossbows generally don’t buy accessories. I just heard about it this year and it’s a real problem according to my source.
Here’s one for $110 including everything.
Oops. Guess the industry guys never thought of this.
The Archery Trade Association voted this summer to do a study to help decide on possibly rethinking their current position on crossbows.
look at the harvest number for cross bows and you will see its the beginning of the end of our archery seasons. And if you say anything about your demonized as an anti hunter. If you not elderly, disabled or a child then if your crossbow doesn't belong in the archery season.
It will be too late for the ata to do anything. They can rethink all they want but crossbows are gonna take over archery seasons. I thought we all wanted more people to get into hunting.
Need to get rid of scopes on all bows for hunting.
I believe Colorado had scopes on muzzle loaders at first, but then outlawed scopes and now you only can use iron sites. One reason was I believe guys we're shooting and hitting with scoped inlines out at 250 yards.
Only reason i started bow hunting was that gun season in Illinois wasn't long enough. If i had yhe option to use a crossbow i would have. I would have bought one, sighted it in and would still be hunting with it. I don't blame people for taking it up. I do blame the industry for the appalling lack of foresight.
"Sorry-Just noticed the last two sentences on my post somehow got deleted."
I do not see it that much here in Wis. my local shop is so busy he has to close to get out to hunt the rut...... our leagues are packed, our winter youth archery is packed, seems like a lot of bowhunters and target shooters out there.......
The shops have also made a lot of money on the xbows, also, and seemed to be happy to have them,,,,,,,,
I think things will work itself out
Kind of off topic but I’m all for primitive, rifle, bow and muzzleloader. Let’s go no scopes for everything.
I don't care what you shoot it with (legally), but don't try to mislead me with a photo without a weapon. Let me make my assessment.
You also forgot one thing Groundhunter….deer are getting killed and that my friends is music to the DNR`s and politicians ears. They want more $$$$ if they can get it but will settle for the same $$$$ or hunter numbers as long as the kill quotas are met.
Ive said it on here before and that article confirmed it ... early archery season used to be fairly quiet and not pressured on our F&W areas, now they are being over run with crossbow toting "gun hunters" who have moved into the "archery" season ...there are more in the field at that time of year than ever ...it is at a point where there will soon be more deer killed in archery than gun and ML seasons combined on these areas and this is because of damn crossbows .... the quiet solitude of archery season is no more ...combine more leasing of land and less private to hunt for various reasons, there are more invading the state lands and now wanting a piece of early "archery" ... it aint what it used to be and yes, I blame the damn crossbows
One thing different about crossbow shooters than vertical bow shooter's is that with cross bow shooters after they buy a crossbow they're about done buying. I know only about 6 or 7 crossbow users. All pretty much have the first crossbow they bought. With pretty much no practicing, meaning not buying bolts or accessories. Just about all vertical bow shooters buy new bows and accessories, way way more then crossbow shooters. One more thing here in Northeast PA I've never seen a xbow shooter at a local 3D shoot.
Dang I thought TBM was ruining this site. Go away open your own forum or find another site to ruin.
So what is the vertical bow hunters message to the powers to be to reverse this trend? We have by our own admission lower bowhunter/hunter numbers....as proven by many threads on here. We are going against Insurance lobbyist...(deer car collisions/personal injury)....we are up against Farm and crop lobbyist....which $$$$ come out of OUR taxpayers pockets in the form of subsidies.
These groups want the deer herd controlled, the DNR and politicians want our deer herds managed....but we have less hunters entering the sport. Do they give out more tags....that never works. So they allow crossbows during archery season. Many stated gun guys are jumping on the band wagon and buying crossbows and archery tags....that`s increased revenues on products and increased revenues on licenses and permits. Plus they are killing the deer.
So lets hear what the compelling argument is going to be to convince the powers to be....Special Interest groups....the DNR and the politicians to change their minds about crossbow hunting. Sorry but so far I have not heard one from anyone, truth be told I don`t know if there is one. IMO we are stuck with it for awhile until we can prove a downside to THEM....not fellow bowhunters.
It blows my mind how everyone on here can be up in arms about crossbows, because the effects of making it too “easy” and the ease of long range “100yd” shooting is going to ruin bowhunting.....But nobody says a word about the compounds being at a point not very far from a crossbow right now. I hunt out west and know of a lot of people killing at 100 yds + right now with compounds. Not much difference in my opinion. I do agree with the article though! It should all go back to primitive! Rifles iron sight, Longbows, recurve, flintlock. All this technology is not good for hunting, they are just selling it to you like it is...it’s all about the dollar
Franklin you are correct. Wis revenue for the DNR from deer license sales, is down 6 percent in 2017, and down again this year. The answer may be to raise the fees, but the hunter dollars is what fills the bill, but that well is starting to dry up.........
On one hand, the DNR has gone beyond protection of our resources, to lets see how many citations we can issue, against the same people who support their revenue,,, never did understand that.... It will only get worse, wait till Evers takes over, hang on to your wallet........................
If they would allow the police to fine you 5.00 for every butt tossed on the ground the problem would be solved, using that money for wildlife,,,, ha ha
Franklin, I believe there a big difference between the guys shooting 100yds with a compound and guys shooting 100 yds with xbows. There are a Elite few that can shoot a hundred yards with a compound, but with xbows it's anyone with a high end xbow and a scope.
What power scopes can be put on xbows?? 2x7, 3x9 4x12????? Can anyone tell me ?? I think a saw a 2x7 on a xbow but I'm not sure. I've shot xbows only a hand full of times and I can tell u one thing I can pickup someone else's xbow that I never shot and shoot a deer at 50yds the first time I pulled the trigger.. I know I can't do that with someone else's hand bow.. Ed
I agree with Teton. I helped a neighbor (disabled) sight in a new scoped crossbow. 4 shots and it was on at least to 50 yds. Can’t do that with my compound.
Bow hunter has a point, compounds have made bowhunting easier and for compound shooters bitching about xbows is ironic.
the bull crap comments about compounds is lost in the fact that they are STILL hand drawn and hand held (no matter what % of letoff) and require form maintenance to remain proficient in using them ... Ive sold multiple dozens of crossbows, and the ease of sighting in and use by a rookie without the dedication of an archer is easily had, and that is why the damn things are popular..... I quit gun hunting deer because it was to easy, I use a BOW because it is harder.... numerous times Ive had deer, some BIG bucks (Does also) in range Ive let walk because of lousy shot angles or they were a tad out of my range that easily could have been killed with a gun or crossbow ... BOW hunting isnt suppose to be easy ...
I highly doubt that "a lot" of compound users are killing at 100 yards. Come on! Seriously?! Maybe I'm old but a 40 yard shot with a compound looks like a mile to me. And I had a very frustrating year this year getting caught drawing on deer. It happened multiple times. Had I been using a crossbow it would have been a slam dunk.
So why are xbows taking over if compounds are so easy to shoot now a days?????
Because Xbox’s are easier and with the popularity of box blinds in every field fencesitting every spot with no trees they are only gonna get more popular. Crossbows and boxblinds is a deadly combination coming to a property line near you
Who said compounds are easy to shoot... the crossbow shooters ? ... they are just trying to muddy the waters ... the below statement I support 100% and good for them standing up to the crossbow lobby ..
Crossbow Policy Statement
"The Pope and Young Club was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
For the purpose of the Pope and Young Club, a bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is hand-held and hand-drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw. Other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
Consequently, the Pope and Young Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Further, the Pope and Young Club considers the use of crossbows during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting only season. Also, the Club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons. We encourage all states and provinces which desire to allow use of crossbows for hunting big game, to require mandatory crossbow specific education, licensing, seasons and reporting requirements." ............... Pope and Young Club
I agree with the Pope and Young position regarding xbows. Problem is that genie is already out of the bottle in many states and can’t be put back in
We are still missing the point....what WE think isn`t the issue. What is the case we are going to present to THEM that is plausible enough to limit crossbows???
Still laughing at Trial's first post 2 days later! Probably be laughing until at least Thursday! Classic!
I’d wager that MOST “bowhunters” use bows ONLY because there’s a season for it which they would miss out on if they didn’t get themselves a bow.
As compounds got faster and easier to hit with, more and more of these folks piled in to cash in, and the more big bucks that were taken in archery season, the more motivation there was to jump in before some damn Bowhunter shot “their” deer.
But if you had offered these folks the opportunity to hunt with rifles or shotguns or muzzleloaders from the get-go, the Archery boom would never have happened.
So now the industry is shocked - SHOCKED - to see the market that they created by pitching products that make Bowhunting more like firearms hunting is leaving them for something that’s more like a firearm... And I don’t feel too bad for them.
Got awarded best pub in National Lampoon?
I’m with Brotsky on this. Let’s try and keep this thread on subject.
Another 30 years we won’t even recognize bow season. It will just be one two week season, pick your weapon.
The real reason isn't crossbows or any other equipment related issue. It is purely the liberalization of our youth and families and the indoctrination in their minds that (ANY) hunting is barbaric, gross, and that only heathens would participate. Who would want to hurt a poor disney character like that anyway? Mostly, I blame the liberal education system coupled by the complacency of we traditionalists.
Hopefully this picture comes up, read the caption. I could scroll through and find these all day. I elk hunted public land for 35 days this year in 2 different states. I think I get a pretty good beat of what’s going on out there( in the West) don’t fool yourselves not much difference between compound and crossbow anymore. I met numerous guys killing at very long distances and one guy who killed a bull on his sixth shot out of his bow. Yes his sixth shot total!! I guess a couple practice shots is all we need now
Bow writers last book....
Oh and these were regular guys, not world class archers!
"Another 30 years we won’t even recognize bow season. It will just be one two week season, pick your weapon."
Might not be 30--years, in 14 states.
Florida is pretty close to letting private land owners use whatever weapon they chose when season begins.
Yep and not just Florida. But then, what do I know? I'm just a wore out ole man. But it aint gonna be 30-years and it dang sure aint just Florida.
I'm far more concerned with what guys shooting 70-80-90 yards and beyond with real bows is going to do to our way of life, than a few tool bags cheating with cross guns...
Elkman, I don't know any guys shooting 70 plus yds with hand bows or hand bow companies advertising even 70 + yard accuracy. But I do see cross bow manufacturers advertising 100-yard accuracy. So I would say guys are taking 100yds shoots with xbows way more than hand bows.
I also will not buy a hand bow from a company that sells xbows and I know that's catching on.
You need to watch some youtube and facechat videos. 70 is a flat brimmer's 30.
Gonna be tough to get that herd'a cats all back in that bag........
I'm pretty sure that is the first time I've ever actually laughed out loud after reading a post on the Bowsite.
Ed,we had to build a 100 yard range (60-100) at our big archery club because 50 was a chip shot and guys were complaining.
30 years from now the Powers That Be will be begging hunters to hunt as much as they can with any weapon they want. Insurance companies and farmers will be howling, license revenues will be in the toilet, suburbanites will be crazy because deer are eating everything in their yards and gardens.
Today's arguments about bows vs. crossbows will seem quaint and irrelevant for anone who remembers..
My sentiments exactly Jaquomo.
Coming far sooner than you might imagine, Jaquomo. Won't be 30-years if state agencies get their way.
So, in the end, what was the great news? Maybe Bowriter could edit his op to restore the deleted sentences.
I've pondered the same scenario Jaquomo. It seems MN license sales are finally starting a downward trend.
In WV hunting regs., for years hunters have not been allowed to substitute a bow for a muzzleloader, but now a xbow is allowed, still not a bow. Seems the state has classifed what a xbow really is. Bob
Ambush-"So, in the end, what was the great news? Maybe Bowriter could edit his op to restore the deleted sentences."
Nope, figure there is enough smart asses on here to figure it out. I will say, 14 states are involved. But of course, I am sure, there are many on here who know better.