Beast are the way to go, waiting for them to go back in stock and picking up a couple more. Other then that I use the original 32 muddys with a rope mod and I have set of muddy pros, the two step version that I like. I generally will go three 32in muddy and one 20" muddy to a stand set with a rope aider on the bottom stick. On my saddle set up I ma going with 5 beast sticks. You can't give me a lone wolf stick, between the one sided step and the steps dimpling....they are an accident waiting to happen
I've not used light sticks like this - always a climber or screw in steps (years ago) or the stackable "ladders" you can get for fixed stands now.
Im going to either try a saddle or a LW Alpha next year to replace the climber for some hunts (mobile, in and out with the stand sort of stuff, scout/set/hunt same sit type things) and was looking at the LW sticks last night (to purchase late spring). So I read this thread with a lot of curiosity.
Trial - what is it about the LW sticks that feels unsafe to you? They looked good, but, I've never used sticks like that and was, admittedly, going on all the general LW love out there (for the stands)... I like the length since I dont like heights and could see 3 being enough for me in the sorts of branchy trees I'm planning to use this kit in.
beast sticks were selling for 80 each yes. They also are accurate on the stated weight. Something that almost no other climbing stick is. Two things that I don't like about lone wolf sticks. First the step will dimple really bad were it mets the bolt stop, use it a year or two and you will see a noticeable indent and lean. You can mitigate that by flipping the step over and get some more life out of them. but a keening step on a wet day is ancient waiting to take place. Secondly and most importantly one sided steps just aren't safe, what tends to happen is you have to flip a step to one side to get around a branch and you forget its swapped and your stepping down down a step that isn't there. Two side steps are way safer and worth the slight extra weight. Also you will find that on your top stick its nice to able to stand with both feet on the same step and leaning against your linemen rope its way easier to hang a stand.
I love my lone wolf alpha and climbing sticks. Never had a problem. The really seem to grip into the tree well, and I have never had a slip issue. Haven't used my climber much at all in the four years since purchasing the lone wolf setup.
1) Cut down to a two-step stick, with 19.5”. Requires a hacksaw, a drill, and about 10 minutes per stick. The factory 32” stick is just about useless for completely mobile hunters.
2) The other is the rope mod for which instructions are pretty ubiquitous.
With these mods mine weigh 2 lbs, 6 oz per stick.
I use three sticks with a two-step movable aider. This comfortably gets me to 18-20 feet and if I really stretch it I could probably hit 25.
I also played around with mine quite a bit and found a stacking method that packs them much more compact than simply piggybacking them and it doesn’t require moving any hardware.
I also think the new Beast sticks are the other great option. The Infalt sticks looks awesome and the offset he designed looks like they really stick to the tree nicely. But the Helium folding steps just pack so much better than his fixed step for me it’s worth the weight penalty of 6 oz per stick as Dan’s came in a 2 lbs per.
Packing the beasts on a treestand, I would say the bulkiness of fixed steps is minimal concern. With my tree saddle I am packing sticks in the meat shelf of a backpack; which basically the Helium sticks are the only viable option for that because nothing else packs as compact.
The Hawk vs. Beast price difference is also sticker shock at face value but I think you have to want to support niche local manufacturing versus something shipped from Asia.
That's not really prudent risk management, Charlie. It doesn't account for the many ways one can fall from a tree that don't include strap failure. In my case I am using rope rated over 4,000 pounds and it is never left overnight to degrade in the elements, so that is the very last thing I am worried about. I am much more likely to slip and fall, or have a stick kick out on me. In either case I am tethered to the tree 100% of the time which is the only acceptable standard to prevent that ugly scenario from happening.
Love the original Muddy sticks since they have two sided steps. LW cover a good height, just hated having only one step on each side, love their stand though. Love Muddy's Stands as well.
Love my Lone Wolf - have used them (3 sticks - I added a rope step to the bottom one) for a long time and never an issue. I did, however switch to the rope method - like it much better than the straps that came with them. I would like to get 2 more steps, as I prefer to get up another 6 to 8 feet.
Are folding steps really that much more user friendly? I use mostly climbers and with hang-on's I've always used screw in steps. I'm considering getting one light, fast hang-on and some sticks. I already have one very light stand but may get a LW Assault or similar. I should sell off a bunch I don't use anymore and get one very usable set up.
The only "advantage" to folding steps are how they pack on your stand for packing them into the woods and that could be a disadvantage as they stick up off the end of the stick making it longer and not as compact.
I really like the LW sticks for evening hunts, but I don't know how a guy can use them in the AM on a tree that isn't cleared out without getting sweaty. I would think in your area, you would freeze to death once you hang sticks, stand, etc. You Canadians are tough though. I always seem to get caught hanging the sticks as well (AM)
As a guy that used screw in steps up until a couple years ago, the LW style sticks are excellent. If you plan on leaving a stand in area those Rivers edge are nice as well. Go up fast.
thanks for the feed back, looks like we are all on the same page, and all on the move..... Ambush, I agree with you on one stand, now,,,, I have several that I have sold, and I think I will stick with the M7 and the xop vanish.......
I really like the xop vanish,,,,,,,, I like the mini sticks though.........
another consideration, is late season. I hunt in really cold weather, and usually am not hunting as high, as early season
I have 14 LW sticks and do like them as they are light and set up quickly. That said I recently bought a set of muddy sticks and although heavy they set up very quickly and secure to the tree better than the LW. For hang and hunts I will stick with the LW sticks but fora stand I am gonna leave up for a bit the muddys are great! Shawn
I use Hawk Helium’s with rope mod. I have a strap assist that I can use on the bottom step if I need. I rarely use it and get high enough with the three sticks.
I have the muddy Pros, Lone Wolf, and XOP. I like the Muddy the best as they have double steps and the rope attachment and are compact. That said they are not built very well. After a little use it is common for the tree stand off to loosen to the point it spins freely. They use a pressed in bolt to attach these that just spins if you try to tighten. There is no way to keep it from spinning as they are pressed in flush.
XOP, LW, or Muddy are not accurate on their weights for their sticks. I will be buying 4 beast sticks on the next run of them. They are the best made sticks out, bar none. They are made for the hang and bang hunter. They are also true to advertised weight.
So for a run and gun set up, what length stick would be optimal for packing and getting up twenty feet?
Two step or three? Assuming a single web step on each stick. I’m contemplating just welding up an aluminum copy of the Rivers Edge.
The video Midwest posted is good, but for my purposes to involved. Not sure the folding step is worth the work. Welded on rungs are solid and with less hardware, possibly lighter. The video has great instructions for the versa button.
the thing that has steered me away from trying the wild edge steps is the fact that I have to make 12 connections or attachments to the three vs five sticks. I am not sure the weight savings is worth the extra hassle
I like my Leverage 32" double step sticks with a versa button and rope modification. Also added one strap step to bottom stick. This gives me 16' range.
I'm a huge fan of the rope modification on LW sticks. This and all other mods are "use at your own risk". That should be obvious but....
The weight and noise savings is a big advantage and the learning curve isn't significant IMO.
I rarely hunt out of the same tree so I've been leaning more towards some safe but out of the box ascent methods. SRT (ascenders and rappelling) and the one stick methods are both huge on weight savings. Everything has pro's and cons.
Do your leverage stick "creak" as you climb? I have a set of leverage sticks setup nearly identical to yours using with amsteel for rope mod and also a strap single step aider and I've found them to be really noisy...
Ambush, just so you know, it is not easy to get to 20 feet with 4 Lone Wolf sticks. You would really have to stretch from stick to stick and then put your stand well above the last step to get your platform to 20 feet. You would have to have your first step 28" off the ground and then have your sticks 28" apart to get your platform to 20'. I can't do it. You could put a rope step on your bottom stick to help you close the gap. And if you put your platform quite a ways above your last step, you can do it. But that climb from the top step to the platform is a critical one so you have to be careful. I honestly don't worry about getting to 20 feet. I'm happy if my platform is in that 17-18 foot range which is quite comfortable for me to get to. BTW, I'm 6' 1/2" tall with a 34" inseam.
These DIY mods to theses climbing sticks are ingenious and quite impressive, to say the least, but at 56 and 31 years punishing my joints and body in general earning a living as a heavy industrial electrician, they're a bit to complicated which = added risk and just aren't for me. As I wear a size 14-15 XW boot, I can see after multiple all day very tiring hunts encountering issues with getting my big feet fully in the climbing aids especially in /snowy/sleet/rainy and high wind conditions and even worse if I'm wearing my extreme cold weather USGI bunny boots. Last thing I need is a truck load of aggravation from multiple failed attempts to be able to get my foot into a climbing aid 10' off the ground let alone higher.
If I had more normal sized feet they would quite likely work, but I have a he!! of a time now fitting my feet on the LW sticks and Summit rapid steps when I wear my insulated Burlies, Lacrosse Ice Kings, or USGI Mickey Mouse boots. I can not even imagine what a PITA trying to fit my Ice Kings or USGI MM boots in a strap type climbing aid, especially if I'm tired and fatigued after multiple all day bow hunts. Still a great idea for those who's list of injuries don't include torn rortator cuffs and bone spurs or with smaller feet.
SR, I covered my Leverage sticks with cloth camo tape, tightened up all connections and have not had any creaking while above 25*. The I beam construction is quieter than other hollow tube steps. If below 20* all bets are off on any sticks and I will be in a ground blind. At 65 years old , retired industrial electrician, size 12 boots, and bad back, I still can climb trees with this setup. Maybe not as fast or high as before.