Mathews Inc.
Keto diet???
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-18
W8N4RUT 08-Dec-18
midwest 08-Dec-18
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-18
mat1739 08-Dec-18
Owl 08-Dec-18
Rob in VT 08-Dec-18
trkyslr 08-Dec-18
Hawkeye 08-Dec-18
W8N4RUT 08-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 08-Dec-18
Fulldraw 08-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 08-Dec-18
Owl 08-Dec-18
Owl 08-Dec-18
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 08-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 08-Dec-18
MichaelArnette 08-Dec-18
Kodiak 08-Dec-18
Brotsky 08-Dec-18
safari 08-Dec-18
Spookinelk 09-Dec-18
JTV 09-Dec-18
Empty Freezer 09-Dec-18
Owl 09-Dec-18
ELKMAN 09-Dec-18
BWBOW 09-Dec-18
PECO 09-Dec-18
kakiat kid 09-Dec-18
Owl 09-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 09-Dec-18
kota-man 09-Dec-18
midwest 09-Dec-18
GLB 09-Dec-18
Owl 09-Dec-18
LINK 09-Dec-18
Owl 09-Dec-18
kota-man 09-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 09-Dec-18
DMTJAGER 09-Dec-18
tradi-doerr 09-Dec-18
Brijake 10-Dec-18
Ace 10-Dec-18
midwest 10-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 10-Dec-18
Owl 10-Dec-18
LINK 10-Dec-18
kota-man 10-Dec-18
Reflex 10-Dec-18
tradi-doerr 10-Dec-18
Catscratch 10-Dec-18
Owl 10-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 10-Dec-18
Catscratch 10-Dec-18
No Mercy 10-Dec-18
Owl 10-Dec-18
Frenchman 10-Dec-18
Fulldraw 10-Dec-18
Catscratch 10-Dec-18
No Mercy 10-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 10-Dec-18
Owl 10-Dec-18
DMTJAGER 10-Dec-18
ryanrc 10-Dec-18
Owl 10-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 10-Dec-18
Buckndoe 10-Dec-18
Owl 10-Dec-18
DMTJAGER 10-Dec-18
Adventurewriter 10-Dec-18
Ermine 10-Dec-18
tradi-doerr 11-Dec-18
ohiohunter 11-Dec-18
Owl 11-Dec-18
Kodiak 11-Dec-18
cnelk 11-Dec-18
LINK 11-Dec-18
Ermine 11-Dec-18
LINK 11-Dec-18
Owl 11-Dec-18
Matt Palmquist 11-Dec-18
No Mercy 11-Dec-18
Deflatem 12-Dec-18
Kodiak 12-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 12-Dec-18
Deflatem 12-Dec-18
Bonafide 12-Dec-18
ohiohunter 12-Dec-18
Bonafide 12-Dec-18
Deflatem 12-Dec-18
Yellowjacket 12-Dec-18
ohiohunter 12-Dec-18
TD 12-Dec-18
DMTJAGER 12-Dec-18
AT Halley 12-Dec-18
Owl 12-Dec-18
Joey Ward 12-Dec-18
Owl 13-Dec-18
Catscratch 13-Dec-18
Owl 13-Dec-18
Owl 13-Dec-18
GLB 13-Dec-18
Owl 13-Dec-18
midwest 13-Dec-18
Bowbender 13-Dec-18
Bowsiteguy 13-Dec-18
Catscratch 13-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 13-Dec-18
Owl 13-Dec-18
COHOYTHUNTER 13-Dec-18
Bowsiteguy 14-Dec-18
Kodiak 14-Dec-18
dgb 14-Dec-18
Bowsiteguy 14-Dec-18
Brotsky 14-Dec-18
Kodiak 14-Dec-18
No Mercy 14-Dec-18
midwest 14-Dec-18
Windlaker_1 14-Dec-18
Catscratch 14-Dec-18
GLB 14-Dec-18
Brotsky 14-Dec-18
Nick Muche 14-Dec-18
Catscratch 14-Dec-18
Ermine 14-Dec-18
Bowsiteguy 14-Dec-18
Brotsky 14-Dec-18
Owl 14-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 14-Dec-18
Cazador 14-Dec-18
trkyslr 14-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 14-Dec-18
Owl 15-Dec-18
BWBOW 15-Dec-18
BWBOW 15-Dec-18
Brotsky 15-Dec-18
midwest 15-Dec-18
Owl 15-Dec-18
SteveB 15-Dec-18
midwest 15-Dec-18
Owl 15-Dec-18
Ermine 16-Dec-18
Owl 16-Dec-18
Dooner 16-Dec-18
Owl 16-Dec-18
Trax 16-Dec-18
Nick Muche 16-Dec-18
Kodiak 16-Dec-18
Dooner 16-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 16-Dec-18
Nick Muche 17-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 17-Dec-18
Owl 17-Dec-18
Catscratch 17-Dec-18
Bonafide 17-Dec-18
Kodiak 17-Dec-18
Brotsky 17-Dec-18
Bonafide 17-Dec-18
Owl 17-Dec-18
midwest 17-Dec-18
Owl 17-Dec-18
Trax 17-Dec-18
Brotsky 17-Dec-18
BULELK1 18-Dec-18
Catscratch 18-Dec-18
midwest 18-Dec-18
08-Dec-18
Started the keto diet a week ago or so....lost a few...I am pretty trim but kinda want to lose about 5=8 pounds or so. Love the stuff on the diet, lots of fats, nuts protein, eggs, coconut oil, cheese, etc....not carbs.... any experience here???

From: W8N4RUT
08-Dec-18
Been on it for several weeks now. Down 34 and counting, takes some discipline to stay in but like the results. Getting my levels checked in a couple weeks.

Scott

From: midwest
08-Dec-18
The latest version of the Atkins diet. I'm not a fan because I don't think it's sustainable long term. At least not for me. I prefer a balanced diet of high quality protein, good fats, and slow burning carbs. My goal is to eat clean 80% of the time and work out like a beast year round. Consistency is key.

Good luck with your fat loss and I hope the diet works out for you.

08-Dec-18
34 pounds???? Wow thats a lot!!! I am really disciplined if I chose to be...not counting anything just bumped up my fats and pretty much no carbs I always ate pretty clean anyways....

From: mat1739
08-Dec-18
Did it for 4 months and lost close to 30 pounds - Weight was falling off me. I stopped doing it but will get back the wagon after holidays.

I used My fitness Pal app to track EVERYTHING I ate.

Also - ghirardelli makes a 92% cacao that’s -1 carb. Taste bad for the first few times but you adjust. They fix the craving.

From: Owl
08-Dec-18
Been keto for years. Lost close to 80# when I started (100# from my highest) and keep if off effortlessly. Recently switched to mostly carnivore to support more anaerobic training for a recent Kodiak hunt. I like that protocol so much I'm sticking with it.

When I started, I was so far down the metabolic syndrome rabbit hole, I was wrecked in many ways: chronic insomnia, fat, fatigued, constantly hungry. I could go on. Ditching carbs improved my life immeasurably. Any questions, I'll be glad to offer whatever I know.

From: Rob in VT
08-Dec-18
Been doing it for about 10 weeks now. Down 22.5 lbs. Toughest part for me is no bread or pasta. All in all pretty easy to stay on, although trying mix up the menu is a challenge. My wife does a pretty good job. She is down 26lbs and has been at it for 14 weeks.

From: trkyslr
08-Dec-18
Secret is sticking with it at least a few months... I lost 25 over 3 months and felt great and stronger then before.

From: Hawkeye
08-Dec-18
Very effective but can be hard to stay on. Secret is keeping your insulin levels down which 'allows' fat loss. You can accomplish the same results (75%) of the time with carbs under 50g/day but OVERALL--the key is low fasting insulin and intermittent fasting. No matter what you eat..if you do those things you will excel. Keto just gets you there faster. It does work though.

From: W8N4RUT
08-Dec-18
+1trkyslr. You cant really cheat or you’ll fall out of ketosis. To me, easier to be disciplined when you know you can get out of the groove. Just be ready to say goodbye to breads, pastas, chips, desserts, etc. small price to pay imo and there are a lot of great options out there.

Scott

08-Dec-18
I have two choices: Either eat frequently or be hangry all the time and miserable to the people around me.

If I eat carbs, I get a huge belly. I'm 6'0" and 155 lbs. I generally stay on an all-meat/vegetable diet and I won't gain a pound no matter how much I eat and I usually eat about 3K calories a day.

But if I add in any carbs, I can gain 1-3 lbs a week if I'm not actively exercising, which is usually the case while I'm at work and working 70 hrs a week. As soon as I hit 158, I go keto or all meat/vegetables and I drop right back down to 154. Usually takes 3 days. I really believe this is the way I'm supposed to eat for my body's health, although I don't think pure keto is healthy all the time (3 months plus).

Haven't had a soda pop in 20 years now and I never eat sweets except when I'm doing back country hunts. I honestly believe the obesity epidemic has everything to do with carbohydrate intake and very little else. Fat people make excuses about not having time or having injuries that prevent them from going to the gym... it's not the gym. It's the carbs.

EDIT: As Hawkeye pointed out, I also believe fasting is super healthy. I do a 24 hr fast about 2-3 days a month, but not on the days that I work. It's very natural. We're meant to go between times of feast and famine.

From: Fulldraw
08-Dec-18
Been doing it since July 6th, down 48 lbs, and my wife is down 52. It is sustainable, and works. I believe I will be under 200 lbs by Christmas...haven’t seen that for 25 years or so

08-Dec-18
You will loose weight on it. I know many who have. Unfortunately, all but one person reverses the effects once they get off of it. Its great for losing those last ten pounds. However, I think the elimination of basically all carbs added in with the fasting, sets all but the most dedicated up for failure.

From: Owl
08-Dec-18
My experience is counter to yours, WVM. I've dealt with weight issues my whole life and eating keto is as easy as falling off a log.

Can't cheat but there is no need. There is zero daily requirement for carbohydrates. Nada. Once you're off of them a few weeks, the cravings largely go away. If you insist on cheating, you'll remain a glucose burner and deal with all the deprivation and failure that goes along with trying to lose weight while riding the insulin roller coaster. That's the genesis of relapse, the return to carbohydrates.

From: Owl
08-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher x 2

08-Dec-18
I have been in fitness my whole life and use to compete as a natural bodybuilder...I still hit the gym a few times a week at 58 to maintain shape and muscle but I agree with IDW its the carbs....I went semi gluten free about 7 years ago and that was a big plus...when I was training hard six days a week I could eat anything and stay really lean my body won't take all that gym time....plus I'm not 30 anymore.... and I'm not wanting to go more than a few times a week..but do 45 minutes or so of aerobics in the morning each day.... I knew a guy who was Mr Natural Universe and ever other title over like 35 and he said HANDS down the Glutes are the enemy adding he had a bunch of PT clients and used them as guinea pigs over the decades and the going glute free was the biggest positive jump hew had ever seen...

I know if I tighten up my diet I can get what i desire but LOOOOOOOOVE Cheese and it has always kinda been a noon noo with the high fat and the keto encourages it...so I thought what the heck

08-Dec-18
Owl, I agree. Which is why I eat very few carbs. None from enriched flour or sugar cane and, only a slight bit per week from the occasional potatoes, fruits, and dairy cheese's. And, I highly limit them. No sugary drinks either. I use them to prevent muscle injury and for recovery. I learned that without the few I eat, I get run down and, then I get hurt.

I'm like Ike. If I do not watch carb intake, I gain weight. After the chemo, I blew up like a balloon on the steroids and reduced testosterone. Plus finally getting to eat, I EAT! And I didn't watch my diet. I gained it Quick too. So, I've had to change things due to that and, no longer weight training. I still require some for my needs but, not nearly as much.

I think there are a lot of ways to reach the goal of weight lose. Keto being the most effective. Where I differ is I know when I work out hard I need a dew good carbs to stay healthy. For me, I'm fortunate in that I have never had a sweet tooth so, I'm not drawn to sweets at all. I eat a lot though. and, I still have to take steroids shots too. Which makes my hungry all the time. I get Hangry too. :^) So now, I eat much more then I did when I gained post chemo weight. 3000-4000 calories a day minimum. And, I'm almost back to pre chemo weight. Different strokes for different requirements.

Adventure, I highly agree. I do three to four high intensity workouts per week. I've been Gluten free for 13 months. Turns out I was allergic to it. So, I feel much better and, I've lost 36 pounds since last September. With less working out then before.

08-Dec-18
"Where I differ is I know when I work out hard I need a dew good carbs to stay healthy."

Yeah. When I'm on a back packing hunt trip, I can eat carbs all day and still lose wt, but I'm burning 3X+ my usual calories. When I'm really busy at work and work a 13-14 hour day, I can do a little carb intake at lunch and I won't gain weight, but if I don't get a fair amount of protein, I'll be hungry and get hangry 3-4 hours later.

08-Dec-18
I’ve done it off and on for a couple years. It’s like anything else it’s not for everyone I feel incredible on it when I’m getting enough greens and healthy fats in.

For me the problem I had is that when I would go off of it even for only a few days I would gain weight fairly quickly. We are talking very little weight of course but I’m kind of in your boat I’m fairly fit and I’m looking for the insane cut.

I’d recommend anyone try it But I’m not sure I would recommend it for hard-core endurance cardio typical of mountain hunts.

Also they don’t make Keto craft beer lol I like dry wine but try being around a bunch of other hunters and bringing out the wine which is basically the only legal alcohol and only certain types lol

Basically it’s not very conducive to social life

From: Kodiak
08-Dec-18
Did it earlier this year for a few months.

I can honestly say I'd never felt better. I'm gonna go back on it. I'm a believer.

From: Brotsky
08-Dec-18
I did it for 2 months this year leading up to my Idaho hunt. Lost 25 pounds and never felt better. I’ve been at fat camp now for the past couple months but plan on going Keto again after the holidays. It really is amazing how good you feel on this diet. No ups and downs, lots of energy, not hungry anymore. When I did it I ate all of my calories in an 8 hour window between noon and 8 pm each day. Lots of steak, eggs, avocados, bacon, and leafy green veggies. Bulletproof coffee to take the edge off in the morning. I have some awesome recipes I made up for Keto fat bombs to eat as snacks in the evening if I felt hungry. I was not a believer in crazy diets like this until I tried it. It truly can change your life if you try it and stay on it.

From: safari
08-Dec-18
Been eating low carb for 11 years down 60 lbs. and holding. Once you are out of weight loss and into maintaining goal weight just increase carbs until you maintain. You want a spud have one just not the size of a football. You can eat what you want as long as you pay attention and pay for that piece of pie with a couple days of no carbs.

From: Spookinelk
09-Dec-18
I lost about 25 pounds in 3 months(215 to 190lbs at 6'0" ) and went from about 22% body fat down to 12% on a strict keto diet( < 25 g carbs daily). Combined with 3 days a week lifting and 4 running It worked for me. I'm not currently on it but will probably go back on after the holidays for a month to lose the winter fat. I think it's almost a miracle for middle aged folks!

From: JTV
09-Dec-18

JTV's Link
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ketogenic-diet-101

09-Dec-18
Been doing the intermittent fasting.. no diet.. just dont eat for 16hrs. Water n coffee ok.. been workin for me.. its simple and flexible

From: Owl
09-Dec-18
Anyone who wants to try keto needs to supplement Magnesium. It often is the difference between "going" and "not going" and that can be the difference between success and failure. lol

For those who are profoundly metabolically deranged (probably a majority of middle-aged 1st world people), too much protein is as bad as eating processed carbs. The liver will convert excess protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis. That will jack your blood glucose level and keep you out of ketosis. That stated, heavy exercise and the folks who are much more metabolically flexible (read insulin sensitive) do well on carnivore protocols.

Exercise is interesting for me: on a strict ketogenic protocol, I have steady state energy pouring out my ears. If I am on my feet, I can work all day without getting hungry and without getting tired. Likewise, I can walk until I run out of time or just get bored without getting tired. BUT, it does not support "bursts" or intense exercise. I'll crash and burn badly without finishing the first round of a HiiT circuit. I guess that is a referendum on stored glycogen and glycogen conversion for me.

Anyway, to work more effectively near VO2 max, I need to be eating lots of protein or limited, time-targeted sources of carbohydrate. My time on Kodiak was the first protracted test of a low carb, physically challenging hunt and I was very pleased with the results.

From: ELKMAN
09-Dec-18
Sounds like me and Idylwild are on the same program with the same results/consequences.

From: BWBOW
09-Dec-18
I did it for 6 months. I didn't loose any weight. But I'm 5'10. 145 lbs. So none really to loose. Sayed in it during elk season and was fine hiking and hunting. My biggest problem I had was my running suffered. My half marthon time fell and some where even hard to finish. I've been back on my standard meal plan now and dont plan to ever go back to keto

From: PECO
09-Dec-18
My wife has been on it for a few years now. She lost weight. The biggest advantage for her was loss of chronic pain. She was taking a lot of ibeprofin. She went keto, lost wieght, feels great. I can't do it. I just try to eat healthy, non processed food.

From: kakiat kid
09-Dec-18
I gotta start something. last blood test showed really high sugar. I have lost 40# but still high...

From: Owl
09-Dec-18
PECO - keto is a common anti-inflammation protocol. Lots of folks enjoy the benefits thereof.

09-Dec-18
Owl X 2.

From: kota-man
09-Dec-18
A few years ago, I decided I wanted to be mountain hunter. I was 6’2” 298. I lost 80 lbs. over the course of a year and did three sheep hunts and a goat hunt that year. At 50 years old, I was in the best shape of my life. I’ve now stabilized around 240 lbs and try to lose 15 lbs each year for hunting season. For me, low/no carb is the only way for me to consistently lose weight.

From: midwest
09-Dec-18
Congrats to all you guys on your successful fat loss. Keep it off however it works for you and don't be a part of the lardification of America!

From: GLB
09-Dec-18
I have been on the Keto diet for about a year now. The main reason I went on it was to get the sugars out of my body to reduce inflammation. I have been having joint pain and back issues for awhile and at age 56 that is expected some. However this diet has help me with that and I feel much better. I did loose 10 lbs but I have always been within my weight limits. This diet is fairly easy for me as it's mostly the things I like to eat but do miss the breads.

From: Owl
09-Dec-18
Cory,that's almost as impressive as a guy getting his NA29. ;)

It makes sense that humans excel on keto and carnivore protocols. Our DNA evolved with those fuel sources, practically exclusively. Carbohydrate was most relevant in consuming the alimentary tracts of our prey. Put another way, our prehistoric progenitors ate the gut piles we now leave in the field. And that may explain why folks get really positive results from eating fermented vegetables.

From: LINK
09-Dec-18
My brother went from 285 to 215 in 6 months and has maintained the past 6. He’s 6’3” and pretty fit at 215. Most people concentrate on what to eat and forget you can get fat on 3000 calories of avacado and cheese. Like any weight loss formula the key ingredient is taking in less than 1800 calories per day. Your body metabolizes certain foods differently but if you’re eating 3000 calories per day it doesn’t matter how much bread and potatoes you don’t eat. To complete my soap box I’ll also add... a diet is only as good as long as you are on it.

From: Owl
09-Dec-18
Gotta disagree Link. When I was shedding lbs, I ate to control insulin and then for satiety. That clocked in around 2400-2800 calories on average. Often times more. Any man eating less than 1800 calories is likely catabolizing lean muscle mass as his body down-regulates for the caloric deficit.

From: kota-man
09-Dec-18
Link...Are you talking net calories, or total? I lost 80 lbs taking in 3000 gross calories per day.

09-Dec-18
"Most people concentrate on what to eat and forget you can get fat on 3000 calories of avacado and cheese."

If I ate 3000 calories of cheese a day, I could inflate a blimp with my ass.

From: DMTJAGER
09-Dec-18
Keto works fantastic for me. Went from 307lbs to 243lbs in less than 6 months ( Jan1 till May 1) and I redly admit cheating and knocking myself out of ketosis several times and had I not done that I would've cut my time to my target weight of 240lbs by at least 4 weeks.

Over the last 5 years prior to this time, I have gained and lost well over 100lbs. Each time I gained weight was because I didn't have the will power to not eat the worst ultra high carb foods possible foods. I do not jest when I say I have a legitimate addiction for sugar, especially chocolate and baked goods, I can eat my favorite chocolates and baked goods in extreme amounts.

Doing what was essentially a low carb diet with LOTS of exersize, 90% of which was swimming (almost no carbs, no sugar, lean meet and chicken and truck loads of green veggies) long before Atkins or keto came into being, I lost 62lbs ( 287lbs to 225) and kept 95%+ of that weight off for over 15 years as I was single and doing 100% all my own cooking. Then I got married and my wife took over doing most of the cooking. Had a battle over her unhealthy cooking for 6-7 years then for the last 8 years I gave in and slowly the weight came back until on December 21st 2017 I stepped on a top quality vey accurate scale and was utterly mortified that in undies only I weighed 307lbs the heaviest I ever have weighed in my life. I'm 6'-2" and very large framed but I was easily 65lbs over weight and truth be told closer to 70lbs. I had tried and succeeded in loosing weight in the last 6-7 years but would always eat unhealthy and gain the weight back. Well I've passed my 6 month mark and have kept the weight off, but its a true challenge as I get zero help from my wife who willingly cooks all the food I need for my low carb eating, but will not stop brining into my home the ultra high carb snacks and foods that are my version of coke cane. So it's a constant battle to maintain my life style change. And that was what I needed as do all people with a chronic weight problem must do is change their eating habits and how they look at food forever. VERY easy to say MUCH MUCH harder to actually do, especially now I am over 50. Keto works but especially for those of us who are chronic over eaters and need to eat a lot to stay to feel satisfied.

From: tradi-doerr
09-Dec-18
Started the Keto diet on Aug. 4th 2018 @ 231lbs, Dec. 4 2018 197lbs and still loosing about 2-3 lbs a week, till I hit 175. Great diet for those that love protein and healthy fats, and keto is basically a diet designed for diabetics.

From: Brijake
10-Dec-18
Anyone who has tried it get raging headaches the first few days, even if they were consuming a lot of water?

From: Ace
10-Dec-18
DMT, hard to imagine you were doing the low carb thing before Atkins. He published his first book in 1972.

From: midwest
10-Dec-18
What I don't like hearing is when people go on the latest craze diet with a goal weight in mind and want to reach that goal in the shortest time possible. You are setting yourself up to yoyo.

Set a goal of losing FAT, not weight. Measure your waist, not your weight. Don't go on a diet, change your eating habits and exercise until it becomes a lifestyle. Dropping a half a pound to a pound a week is healthy and sustainable.

10-Dec-18
Ditto Nick. These huge weight loses quick are great. But, as I said earlier, everyone I know who has went that route has put the pounds back on. Plus some in most instances.

From: Owl
10-Dec-18
Brijake, that is often the case with the switching energy substrates. Folks call it the "keto flu" when in reality it is glucose detox (imo). Bad headaches, severe lethargy, nausea are leading symptoms. I tell people to time their start of keto so that day 3 and 4 will hit on a weekend or time off because they'll want to ride it out like they would having the flu. Good news is, once you cross that hurdle, running off of ketones is much better than glucose.

midwest, when asked, I tell people to throw away their scales and pay attention to how their clothes fit. Much better to have composition or performance goals than weight goals. Body weight should be a tertiary focus at best because a) it will take care of itself if you are living healthily and b) chasing numbers on a scale causes people to do stupid and unhealthy things.

From: LINK
10-Dec-18
Kota and Owl I realize it is possible to eat 3000 calories and lose weight. My point was a see a lot of people that think if they avoid bread and potatoes or insert your food group here that they’ll automatically lose weight. Sure you can eat a lot of calories and lose weight... if your eating a very specific diet or training for a marathon. For the average person that’s overweight and isn’t going to burn more than 200-300 calories exercising or eat 3000 calories worth of celery you’re going to have to eat at or below what your body requires before it will burn additional fat.

My brothers employer has gotten almost its entire work force on the Keto diet, for its “health benefits”. Many are losing weight but some that are too thin are adding weight while strictly following Keto. The ones that are gaining are eating more than 2500 calories and the ones that lost weight are less than 2000. Once they hit there ideal weight they might have slightly modified intake. Many people go on a “diet” and gain weight. Regardless of the diet there is a caloric formula for weight loss. It might change a bit with certain foods but it’s still a simple equation.

From: kota-man
10-Dec-18
THanks for clarifying Link. I was eating 3000 calories a day, but burning 1000 by climbing for 2 hours.

Great points Owl. I will weigh only once a week, but use my clothes as a gauge. I can tell when I'm going the "right way" vs. the "wrong way" by the way my pants fit!

From: Reflex
10-Dec-18
Regardless of your choice of "diet", I think one thing that has come to light in recent years is that all calories are not created equal. An active person eating a clean diet can easily surpass 3,000 calories and maintain or lose weight.

Also, I hear a lot of people say that the keto diet is the new Atkins. This is NOT the case. There are a ton of people out there doing "dirty keto", where they are basically eating bacon and cheese for every meal. This plan may cause you to enter into ketosis and lose some initial weight, but it is not a healthy plan. A high dose of vegetables should be included in your diet or you are going to be depriving yourself of a lot of essential nutrients. Eliminate all process foods and stick to wild game (including fish), nuts, avocados, and vegetables and you have a recipe for success!

From: tradi-doerr
10-Dec-18
If you are really doing the Keto diet right, you will regulate your meals in macros, and to clear the air, some are correct, it's not about JUST loosing weight, but also the inches, The 30+ pounds I lost also came with going from a size 38 waist to a size 35. Also, you only weigh in once a month, not daily or weekly. This style of dieting has been around for sometime, from the late 60's it was also known as the body builders RIP diet, putting the body into Ketoses. Those interested in trying this type of diet google search ketogains macros, you will find lots of great information about keto dieting. As always talk to a doctor as some diets aren't for everybody, but exercising is good for most everyone!

From: Catscratch
10-Dec-18
Anyone have a link to the basics of keto? A good link! Info that gives the basics, food examples, and some reasoning?

From: Owl
10-Dec-18
Catscratch,

YouTube- anything Nora Gedgaudas or Gary Taubes will give you the 30,000 foot overview. You want “reasoning”? Gedgaudas will change how to see any food. There’s a British fellow who’ll also absolutely dismantle modern dietary morays. I’ll try to find a link but basically he goes into the science of why we must be meat eaters. He’s a champion archer to boot.

10-Dec-18
I disagree with only weighing in once a month. There's no compelling reason to have less data. And that data matters more once you're maintaining as 5 lbs comes on pretty quick and can amount to the difference between having gas or not.

From: Catscratch
10-Dec-18
Thank you Owl!

From: No Mercy
10-Dec-18
I've been doing it for 9 months now-lost 70 lbs so far. Initially, it's a hard change, but after the first month or so you settle into a better diet and it gets much easier. I never was much of a pasta or bread person, so that was a bit easier. I do love my sugar though. :-)

From: Owl
10-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher, the "weigh less" approach is more about precluding or not reinforcing bad habits inculcated by cultural disfunction than availing oneself of less "data."

I now use the scale to gauge inflammation due to exercise and diet. Sensitivity testing.

From: Frenchman
10-Dec-18
ok - here is the killer question: what do you guys drink on KETO?

no more beer, no white wine - please someone tell me whiskey is ok and dry red wine? I tried just "no beer" for a few months and man, if you have a job with high levels of "public relations" involved - no beer was tough as hell! Does KETO = no more alcohol?? (please say no!)

From: Fulldraw
10-Dec-18
Makers Mark on the rocks with a splash of water... :)

From: Catscratch
10-Dec-18
Mmmmmm beer. Beer might be an issue... I don't drink to get drunk often, but do like a dark beer a couple of times a week. I run every day and there isn't much better than to finish a run on a hot summer afternoon, grab an apple off the tree, and then cool down walking the foodplots with a frosty FatTire. I've quit beer before (months at a time) but not sure I wan't to make that a complete life style change. Going to have to watch that video and see what I think!

From: No Mercy
10-Dec-18
Alcohol slows metabolism, as your body processes the alcohol before anything else, according to my coach. I do enjoy some bourbon from time to time however. Still gotta live life and enjoy it.

10-Dec-18

IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
Lunch time

From: Owl
10-Dec-18
Beer is my vestigial vice. I had a monster sweet tooth but giving up bread and sweets is easy. Beer kind of haunted the recesses of my mind. I've found that I can get by with a beer or two if I've been really active or schedule strenuous exercise that day. Anything else and I'll knock myself out of ketosis. That's after years of practical abstinence.

If your idea of "having a beer" is knocking back a sixer, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

From: DMTJAGER
10-Dec-18
Ace, I stand corrected, as I didn't know Atkins was published first in 1972. I had never heard ANYTHING remotely related to Atkins or his diet until about 96-98 when my good friend who was also my family dentist who told me he had used the Atkins diet to loose 75lbs, so I incorrectly assumed Dr. Atkins had not published his book until some time in the 90's. The first time I ever used a very low carb diet to loose weight as I described in my original post was in1982, so when it was at least 15 years later I first became aware of the Atkins diet is how I made my now obvious mistake. My original diet in 1982 consisted of two meals a day lunch and dinner. My lunch and dinner consisted of a grilled or broiled lean meat, fish or chicken with a HUGE bucket sized salad of green veggies only and a vinegar and olive oil and Good seasons Italian spices dressing. I eliminated ALL, every SINGLE last food with breading or added sugar in them, all bread, cereals or veggies grown in the ground. I was without knowing it on a very low carb diet, not exactly but very close to being on the Atkins diet. In all honesty I didn't realize hidden carbs were THE source of my weight problem or that I had utilized a low carb specific diet to loose weight until I FINALLY read the newest version of Dr. Atkins diet renamed the "KETO DIET" in 2016 and went fully committed to Keto in 2017.

From: ryanrc
10-Dec-18
I could do keto pretty easily, but I worry about what my blood work would look like. How have your triglycerides and LDL turned out while on this diet?

From: Owl
10-Dec-18
ryanrc, many folks report an improvement with their blood work. It was not a focus for me so I never had a panel done.

10-Dec-18
In the big cardiac studies done between 10 and 20 years ago, it was shown that lowing weight will make you live a lot longer than lowering your cholesterol will. Your liver makes most of the cholesterol flowing through your blood stream than what you're adding via diet. High LDL/Trigs is more a product of metabolism and liver lipid production than is what you eat. Get rid of the problems with your belly fat and insulin resistance and the lipid profile will improve and the triglycerides will drop, along with cardiac risk.

From: Buckndoe
10-Dec-18
I think the X factor with any weight loss program is the amount of exercise the individual engages in. A healthy diet is important and can result in immediate results ( weight loss) for weeks or months but with an otherwise sedentary lifestyle diet alone is very difficult for long term success. The combination of diet (choose one) and sweat can last a lifetime.

From: Owl
10-Dec-18
Exercise is good because we were designed to move. And it’s fun. It isn’t required to lose weight permanently, imo. Long term weight loss is primarily a function of controlling hormones like insulin and cortisol than exercise and calorie restriction.

From: DMTJAGER
10-Dec-18
IMHO unless you smoke the number one killer of the old is inactivity. No doubt what so ever in my mind if you exercise regularly both weights and cardio you will absolutely extend your life and when your 77 2 more years alive is a LONG time. Is has been correctly stated we are designed and meant to be VERY physical beings 90-95% of human kinds existence on earth we had to but our a$$es to not only earn a living but to survive and until quite recently our past times were also quite physical. The creation of mostly white collar sedentary jobs and sedentary pastimes coupled with fast food places every mile have turned us into the fattest most unhealthy country in the world.

10-Dec-18
IDW kinda like little dogs live longer than big ones???

DMTJRI use to teach overseas in third world countries and the students were fascinated with the US...I would ask them what they thought the first thing they would be amazed with first if they visited and stepped off the plane??? Of course the answers were varied and fanciful. I told them they first thing they would be amazed with was how many fat people were waddling and squatting about!!!!

From: Ermine
10-Dec-18
I don’t buy into the Keto diet. I think it might have its benefits and help with some weight loss but doesn’t seem totally sustainable to me. I generally follow a low carb diet. But I eat more healthy fats and fruits and more protein.

From: tradi-doerr
11-Dec-18
Ermine, what you describe is pretty much the keto diet, my daily intake, 25grams of carbs, 117grams protein, 142grams of good fats- 1800cal to 2500cal per day. all weighed out in macros. A good book is 'The Complete Ketogenic Diet for Beginners' and 'Keto in 28'.

Diets work differently for everyone, but the keto has done well for me. As mentioned, making life/habit changes is key to success.

From: ohiohunter
11-Dec-18
Ketosis is only new to the mainstream, body builders have been doing it for a long time. There’s nothing to buy, it’s legit. It’s sustainable if you have the will power not to succumb to the dopamine dumping simple sugars. Anyone who is relatively active but chunky will melt fat when in ketosis. The diet is only as sustainable as the individual’s will, otherwise any healthy human can do it. Once over the “hump” you may experience better mental clarity, more energy, and better sleep. I did, but I’m a slave to sugar and nachos. I also dropped over 20lbs in a few weeks.

Ermine, after the holidays give it a solid go for 2wks minimum. No gimmicks, just physiology.

From: Owl
11-Dec-18
Folks need to realize that ketosis is not a fad. It's been our metabolic norm for millions of years. The "fad" or aberration, rather, is running off of grains and sugars as we have since the industrial revolution. And it's no surprise that the further down the processed food rabbit hole we go, the sicker and fatter we get as a society.

From: Kodiak
11-Dec-18
Very interesting thread.

Thanks gents.

From: cnelk
11-Dec-18
A very good friend told me once - "You cant exercise a bad diet away"

From: LINK
11-Dec-18
Ryanrc. Heart disease is something that my family has a history of. My brother that is on Keto is 45. He had his numbers tested before and after 6 months on Keto. By all measures his numbers were significantly better and in the desired ranges. His dr told him whatever he was doing to keep it up. There’s no way of really knowing but I’d be curious to compare his numbers just on a diet that consists of everything in moderation except no sugar. I realize what bread and potatoes are but I can’t imagine eating a few pieces of whole grain bread holds a candle to 30 ounces of soda a day and probably a sugary snack. Avoid sugar at all costs, eat minimal bread and potatoes but don’t cut it out all together, and only take in the calories needed for a health weight and I bet most people’s numbers would improve greatly. At least for those that like sweets like I do. ;)

From: Ermine
11-Dec-18
Yea I’m sure it works obviously it has worked well for a lot of you. what I do for my general diet might be similar but it is not the exact Keto diet. I have more protein than what is allowed in the Keto diet. I eat more fruits and nuts and have less of the high fat foods. I’m more along the lines of the paleo diet. But even not that strict.

To follow the Keto diet exactly I don’t think I could maintain the diet and still excerise hard and hunt hard. I think I need more protein and some carbs when your excerising and living my lifestyle and doing my job.

From: LINK
11-Dec-18
Ermine im with you and I haven’t done the Keto. My “diet” is probably similar to yours and when I’m wanting to cut weight I lay off the sugar. The Keto arguement for what you said is that in ketosis your body is burning fat and not sugars or starches. Fat is a better source of energy that keeps your body from crashing, like sugar does. A lot of marathoners and military are switching to Keto instead of pounding sugar packets every few miles. The thought is that even being trim your body can carry 1000’s of calories of fat on you at anytime. When you’re in ketosis and your body is burning fat you have access to those stores even when food isnt readily available. I have no doubt Keto would work for you. You’re active lifestyle and body type might require more intake, which it likely all ready does.

From: Owl
11-Dec-18
Hormonally speaking, if you’re eating a standard American diet, your body won’t access its fat stores effectively in a state of deficiency.

Imagine the back country efficiency of being fat adapted....:)

11-Dec-18
Ya, but you are an animal Justin that lives in the mountains, and is in phenomenal shape.....Try being a fat flatlander with a desk job;)

I have gained and lost weight multiple times on low carb. It is a rollercoaster for me, but it is because I don't maintain the dedication to it year round.

Some inspiring stories above...think it is time to reengage.

Matt

From: No Mercy
11-Dec-18
One of the main reasons I did this for myself and my family is the history of diabetes in my family. My blood sugar went from a dangerous level of 130 to 86 is 6 months. Yes, it is a day to day endeavor, as I love sugar, but it's worth the struggles I have with it. I liken it to quitting chewing 10 years ago. I still think about a chew after a certain meal or trigger, but I haven't given in. I apply this to my eating habits now too.

11-Dec-18
"If your idea of "having a beer" is knocking back a sixer, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. "

......I usually shoot myself in both feet if I'm gonna drink.....

From: Deflatem
12-Dec-18
I'M 57. I FEEL LIKE CRAP. I'm lazy , and I usually can't stick with a work out plan, much less a keto / paleo diet for long. I have to do something , because I feel like I'm spiraling down a hole both physically and mentally. My blood work has been poor lately too. I am inspired by the stories here. I really hope I can get back from this RUT I'm in. I am going to get started on the low/ no carb thing and see how it goes. Wish me luck please! Thanks

From: Kodiak
12-Dec-18
Good luck Deflatem. I was in a similar funk when I went on it and my mind and body both made 'almost' miraculous turnarounds.

Try it and stick with it and see what happens.

12-Dec-18
Get dedicated man. Everything you do in life that you truly enjoy requires good health. Make that your motivator

From: Deflatem
12-Dec-18
Thanks. Here we go !

From: Bonafide
12-Dec-18
Been doing Keto since July and I'm down 42 lb's. Bacon fat, ghee butter and olive oil are your friends when cooking wild game and trying to add fat content to your food. I love it.

From: ohiohunter
12-Dec-18
Deflatem, if you're a coffee man look into the keto coffee recipes. A friend who has been keto for months and months loves his coffee with mct oil. He says his coffee holds his cravings down until the early afternoon.

From: Bonafide
12-Dec-18
My favorite coffee is bulletproof coffee, mct oil, ghee butter & collagen protein powder. Good stuff

From: Deflatem
12-Dec-18
What is MCT oil? This is instead of my regular French Vanilla? lol

From: Yellowjacket
12-Dec-18
Anyone starting this should know there will be a period of time you probably will experience the "low carb flu" while your body adapts to burning fat.

From: ohiohunter
12-Dec-18
Its just like french vanilla except its not creamy, isn't loaded with sugar, and tastes nothing like vanilla.

Bonafide, I was doing the BP coffee but my recipe called for cocao.. I just couldn't get used to it. Tell us about that protein, do you have a link?

From: TD
12-Dec-18
Ya had me right up until I realized beer is a carb......

From: DMTJAGER
12-Dec-18
Ermine as others stated before me, if you have a chronic weight issue, Keto IF DON CORRECTLY will work fat loss miracles for you. BUT, IDC WHAT diet you try if you don't go through what is essentially a PERMANENT life style change in what you eat, how you eat and most importantly IMHO, how you view food. The Keto/Atkins again IMHO only Achilles heel is you must fallow it exactly which takes will power which will be the same for any permanent changes in your diet, otherwise you weight loss will be only temporary no matter what diet you try. IOW, you cant go on any diet, loose weight and go back to the way you were eating as gaining back all weight lost will be inevitable. This is common sense and is THE cause of yo-yo weight loss so many millions of Americans suffer year after year.

From: AT Halley
12-Dec-18
I think the first thing anyone should do is eliminate, as much as you can, processed foods. I don't follow a keto diet but have had success cutting out almost all processed foods and stick with foods in it's natural state (meats and veggies). I do the cooking at my house so it's pretty easy for me to stick to it...until my wife brings home ice cream!

From: Owl
12-Dec-18
Deflatem, I was a mess when I started. Best thing I've ever done for myself. Best advice: educate yourself WHY you should be eating this way. It's a lot easier to stay on track when you really understand how pathological the Standard America Diet is. Besides, when you feed your body what it wants, cravings are almost nil.

From: Joey Ward
12-Dec-18
You boys eat how you want, but there ain’t no way I’m going through life not eating fried okra, venison chili with kidney beans, mashed taters with gravy, corn bread, cat head biscuits with syrup, fried squirrel, rabbit, venison chicken fried steak, creamed corn, homemade apple or pecan pie with vanilla ice cream, or beer. And hundreds of other stuff youre not supposed to eat or drink on that or any other diet.

Hey, I like Elizabeth Hurley, but I don’t want to look like her. :-)

Best to you though.

From: Owl
13-Dec-18
I get that point of view Joey but, conversely, there isn't a plate of food out there worth being sicker, fatter and dumber than I am now.:)

From: Catscratch
13-Dec-18
Might be a weird question, but can you guys post more pics of keto meals? There was a pic earlier on this thread and it looked pretty damn good. I hate to say it but that single pic (of something I would like to eat) has been more motivating for me to research this diet than anything else.

I watched a little of Nora Gedgaudas on youtube last night. Damn... there is a lot screen time needed to catch her message but everything I've watched so far has been very good.

From: Owl
13-Dec-18
Gedgaudas is a neurofeedback specialist and sometimes comes off as such. :) She does have some elementary content on youtube, though. You probably jumped in the deep end just by chance. I'll try to share a link.

Gary Taubes, while stuffier, is easier to comprehend.

From: Owl
13-Dec-18

Basic but dense. Again, this is the 30,000' view.

From: GLB
13-Dec-18

GLB's embedded Photo
GLB's embedded Photo
Carscratch, this is what I use:

From: Owl
13-Dec-18

Dr. Barry Groves. The British champion archer I mentioned earlier. Don't care your predilection wrt the topic, everyone should watch this as one of the best apologetic arguments for hunting.

From: midwest
13-Dec-18
I agree, Joey! I've just learned to eat/drink all those foods in moderation. For the most part, I look at food as fuel and not a pleasure.

From: Bowbender
13-Dec-18
Noticed there's no fruit shown GLB's pic. No apples, peaches, nana's, cherry's strawberries, plums, nectarines.... Da fuq.

From: Bowsiteguy
13-Dec-18
midwest looks at food as fuel and not a pleasure. Well, that would help to keep one on a diet of "vegetables that grow above the ground." It's a little harder when you grow up in a culture where eating is one of the two or three most important activities of the day (Italian). It was not just pleasurable, but it was an art, and was woven into the social fabric. The other night my wife put some Rao's white balsamic condiment in a frying pan with some fresh winter pear slices, and cooked that down (poached) to a caramelization beauty. A dollop of Mascarpone on top, with some fresh raspberries. You want me to eat broccoli on an avocado? Eh, I don't know. Everything is a tradeoff, I guess, but from a life of observation and reading all of the study results popping out like popcorn, exercise seems just as, or more, important that diet (as long as you don't go crazy, of course). Exercise and a Mediterranean diet are about the best I can do -- I'm weak.

From: Catscratch
13-Dec-18
Thanks for the links guys! I actually printed a couple of those pyramids and charts this morning. The Cobovore to Carnivore video that Owl link'd is the one I started last night. It's been great... but long. It will take the better part of a week for me to finish it.

Lol, when I asked for pics I was referring to a guy's lunch that he posted in the middle of this thread. It was real food and looked good! That is inspiring to me.

13-Dec-18
Fruit contains sugar. Lots of it. For years it was thought fruits are so good for you. They are with sense involved. But, the people eating bananas, apples, and oranges with no recognition of that, are eating natures Debbie cakes while thinking they are doing too. Take out the preservatives, gluten, and a few scientific taste enhancers from a Debbie cake, and you are left with..... SUGAR. You just gotta re ognize that if you are going to eat them.

From: Owl
13-Dec-18
Good post WV M.

Also, consider natural sources of sugar were only seasonally available (once a year) and essentially qued the body to store fat via increased insulin secretion, the fat storage hormone. Think berries and bears - the ingestion of fructose and glucose throws the fat storage mechanisms into overdrive and you put on fat for winter. The problem for western humans is that our food norms have put us in a state of perpetual hyperphagia.

13-Dec-18
If it's bad for you I probably eat a lot of it. I have a huge bag of Hershey bars on my desk right now and there are dozens of donuts, cakes, potato chips, and all kinds of stuff everywhere in my office today. Every kind of bad thing....I see a pile of white castles in the conference room. I even ate burger king (I'm still gagging over that) for lunch today with a large milk shake and fried onion rings but it was the least crowded place I could find. I did swim my two miles though......

From: COHOYTHUNTER
13-Dec-18
When training hard. And what has worked for me in my football, powerlifting, body building and cross fit training is simple. Lean protein sorces and vegetables. What changes for me depending on the activity is the amount of intake. BUT everyone is different what works for one may not work for others.

From: Bowsiteguy
14-Dec-18
Google, of course, is a wondrous information machine. I looked. WebMD and Healthline were unanimous that it is hard to ingest an excessive amount of fructose by eating fresh fruit. I stopped looking after those two. Whole fresh fruit is apparently an excellent source of nutrition, but I'm a believer in the Rule of Moderation, or what WV calls, sense. At my age I believe it is a good idea, and worth the effort, to count daily grams of sugar. And ... EXERCISE!

From: Kodiak
14-Dec-18
Sugar is sugar, no matter if it's wrapped in a banana or a Twinkie.

From: dgb
14-Dec-18
I lost just over 25 pounds in three months on it. I'm now on a generic low-carb, low-sugar diet and have maintained my reduced weight.

From: Bowsiteguy
14-Dec-18
Sugar isn't sugar, no matter if it's wrapped in a banana or a Twinkie, and I think it is misleading to imply that you can grab a Twinkie instead of a banana, because they are the same thing nutrition-wise. Uh-uh. But, it's still a free country, eat what you want.

From: Brotsky
14-Dec-18
It's not misleading at all. A banana obvious has many ancillary nutritional benefits such as potassium and others that you don't get in a twinkie but sugar is sugar is sugar regardless of the source when it comes to the insulin reaction in your body.

I think the single biggest benefit to the keto diet for me was learning how my body actually processes the things I put into it and the reaction I have to excess sugars, fats, carbs, etc. When you are on the keto diet you become an obsessive label reader, everything from ingredients to carb counts, etc. You begin to understand what's in your foods and what to enjoy and what to cut out. It's not an easy diet to be on, especially during hunting season with traveling and being away from home etc but it can be done with planning. Definitely time for me to get back on the horse with my diet, goal to be 190 pounds by turkey season!

From: Kodiak
14-Dec-18
Thank you Brotsky, you said it better than I could have.

From: No Mercy
14-Dec-18
Well said Brotsky-

From: midwest
14-Dec-18
Amount of sugar in a banana - 14- 17 grams

Amount of sugar in a Twinkie - 16.5 grams

As mentioned, bananas have some healthy stuff in them, too, like fiber and a little protein but they are also high in carbs. I usually eat 1 piece of fruit most days in the mornings but I avoid bananas except for pre or post workouts.

From: Windlaker_1
14-Dec-18
Daughter and Son in Law did it over the Summer. Both lost over 25 pounds. When the fell off the wagon, they gained more than that back. I don't think it's a sustainable diet.

From: Catscratch
14-Dec-18
Well... I started this morning. Cooked/bought what I estimate the be the better part of a weeks worth of broccoli, cauliflower, bacon, eggs, avocados, and cheese. Instead of creamer in my coffee I added a little pat of butter and some extra virgin olive oil. I filled up quick and am still full... but I have a craving! I can fight the craving but it will be tough. I have two boys playing basketball right now and I'm eating on the road a lot or living on stadium food. I can eat hotdogs with without buns no problem. I will cheat next week with work Christmas lunches. I suspect I will actually gain weight bouncing back and forth from keto to carbs but I will be developing a habit and once I get a few social cheat days out of the way I'll be on the right track.

From: GLB
14-Dec-18
I am convinced that sugar is one of the worst things that you can put in your body for over a period of time. Its addicting and should be avoided. This time of year sure makes it difficult with my weakness for eggnog ??

From: Brotsky
14-Dec-18
Good luck Catscratch! One thing you will learn right away is there are no cheat days or cheat meals with this diet. You either do it or you don't. A cheat day effectively sets you back to square one as soon as it happens. Once you get into the habit though of eating Keto it's actually pretty easy to stay the course even traveling. I can generally always find something on a menu that can be made Keto by subtracting certain things etc.

From: Nick Muche
14-Dec-18
I did it in 2016 and lost 30 lbs of dark Alaska winter weight, felt great. Then went to Europe for the end of 2017 and beginning of 2018, and fell off pretty bad. Made it through this past spring and hunting season just fine with a terrible "see-food" diet, but gained a bunch of weight in the process. I am back on it and already down nearly 10 lbs in just under two weeks. Even when I was off Keto, I was working out nearly every day while at work, running and core strength.

Here is what I eat on the daily while on Keto...

Breakfast (I do not eat until 9am) - Coffee with 1 TBSP of Butter and 1 TBSP of MCT oil, Wild game steak or bacon with three eggs OR spinach, cheese, bacon 3 egg omelet. Lunch - Salad and grilled chicken breast Snacks - almonds, wild game jerky (home made so I know what's in it), string cheese, wild game summer sausage (again, I know what's in it) Dinner - meat, greens and avacados

With several freezers full of wild game meat, this is so simple for me it's not even funny. It works, and for me, as long as I don't have to travel much for work it is sustainable. Couple Keto with regular workouts and you can watch the fat just melt away.

My vices are craft beer and I fkn love ice cream. So, instead of 2 pints at the local brewery, I'll have an 8 ounce glass and not very often at all... Whiskey and Scotch are staples if I want a drink when out with friends.

From: Catscratch
14-Dec-18
Brotsky, that's why I figure I'll gain a few pounds next week as I bounce back and forth. Just being honest with myself in that I know I'll have a couple of carb dominant meals next week and it will kick me out of keto. But I can sure stay the course with my other meals and start the change in habits I should implement anyway.

Thanks y'all for the help.

From: Ermine
14-Dec-18
So how does Keto work with peanut butter? And protein?

I love peanut butter. And I eat a lot of protein generally.

From: Bowsiteguy
14-Dec-18
Brotsky: "... sugar is sugar regardless of the source when it comes to the insulin reaction in your body." What I get when I Google it: "Fruit sugar, fructose, is not processed like glucose is. Glucose is processed by the release of insulin and can thereby cause blood sugar to spike. ... It's processed in the liver and doesn't cause spikes in insulin or a spike in blood sugar." As I previously indicated, the science says you cannot get an excessive amount of fructose by eating fruit if you are not on a Keto diet. If misleading information causes one person, not on Keto, to choose a Twinkie over a banana, because they read that it's all the same, it's done a disservice. In the 1970s, the Atkins diet was way, way bigger than Keto. A few years later , the Atkins paperbacks were mostly out in the garage or in the landfill. But it is still around. Keto will still be around in a few years, but it has special uses. It is effective for those with huge amounts of excess fat to get rid of. Also, it is easier for some people to stay on because it is black and white -- like cigarettes. You can quit smoking by choosing not to smoke the first cigarette every time. Black and white. You don't have to smoke the first cigarette. But you have to eat, and for some, making a diet black and white works for them. For those who can reasonably control their appetite, who really love food, and who exercise as a lifestyle, they don't need something so drastic to be healthy.

From: Brotsky
14-Dec-18
I think you should do a little more research on fructose my friend, specifically how it is processed by the liver and the end result. No one here advocated a Twinkie over a banana. However that banana is going to add just as much body fat OR MORE than a Twinkie from a sugar perspective.

Ermine, peanut butter is good on the Keto diet in moderation. Make sure you get the unsweetened, all natural variety. The ingredients should list basically peanuts and salt nothing else. You'll need to track how many carbs you are taking in from the PB though because they add up fast. In Keto you are tracking net carbs, I.E. Carbs minus dietary fiber. I stay under 20 net carbs per day.

From: Owl
14-Dec-18
A ketogenic diet works wonders to negate cravings. Appetite control doesn't even exist. It just happens. Where people fail at keto is in thinking they can cheat like all the failed calorie restriction methods. So, what happens is they never really lose their cravings, never leave the adaptation phase. This is a red pill/ blue pill dynamic.

I will say cheating keto is a good litmus test for how correctly you are doing it. If you cheat and it doesn't make you feel gross - not just bad - but GROSS, you weren't in ketosis and you aren't where you want to be. And, if you're preoccupied with or willing to betray your macros, you aren't doing it correctly. You need to tweak something.

One more note on cheating - in doing so, you are reinforcing poor support from family and friends. If they expect you'll cheat in social situations, they won't support your efforts to eat clean. If you want to get healthy, that's going to be a big problem. And, really, it is not logical to condition folks to one mode of behavior and lament when they don't support another.

14-Dec-18
Bowsiteguy, The old food charts definitely apply if you want to eat 1200 calories a day. Eat all the fruit you want if you limit calories to that point. Just understand, it is why diets based on calories are a failure for almost everyone. Who in the heck can eat 1200 calories a day and do that for the rest of their life? Not me since my 3-4 boiled egg breakfast has over 300 calories. That's a 1/4 of my intake. Add any drink besides water and coffee and you might get to eat a can of tuna for lunch. And, a light salad with no dressing plus a piece of chicken breasts for supper. Does that sound sustainable?

You not only starve yourself, hurt your endurance, and lose muscle mass like that, you WILL injure yourself if you are trying to work out. Not to mention train your body to live off less food which means when you get tired of starving yourself after 2 months, you will WAY over eat and, gain the weight back plus some to go with it. No thanks.

Pay attention to what everyone is saying and see what they have accomplished doing this. Plus, go back and read all of Owl's post. He has hit this dead on the head. A low glucose blood level that does not spike way up and down is the KEY to losing weight and maintaining. You do that by limiting sugar from any source and eating often.

Yes, fruits have some benefits that Twinkies do not. Pick your poison. I'll do with the occasional banana, apple, etc.... one day a week and, save the rest for green veggies, meats, nuts, and dairy. They taste way better and satisfy my hunger better the then fruit.

From: Cazador
14-Dec-18
What I find interesting, is we're about the only country that worries about this stuff. Goes to show you how crappy our food source is vs. other countries.

Example, in Brazil, you will find their equivalent to truck stops along the highway that would be considered almost top shelf restaurants in our country. Good pure food served. People will sell a whole garden off in a day which ends up available to you.

Hell one can damn near die of a heart attack in this country on a simple road trip. Its no secret food in our country is horrible. Easy to see why obesity, diabetes etc is so prevalent.

From: trkyslr
14-Dec-18

trkyslr's embedded Photo
trkyslr's embedded Photo
Bowsite the new facebooger where you post about your food! Bahahahahaaaaa

#ketolife

Dinner... elk backstrap

14-Dec-18
Yummy

From: Owl
15-Dec-18
I second that, WV M

From: BWBOW
15-Dec-18

BWBOW's embedded Photo
BWBOW's embedded Photo
Try this peanut butter. I no longer do keto because my running suffered to much but feel it would help alot of people

From: BWBOW
15-Dec-18

BWBOW's embedded Photo
BWBOW's embedded Photo

From: Brotsky
15-Dec-18
^^^That’s the exact one I use as well.

From: midwest
15-Dec-18

midwest's embedded Photo
Food Porn!
midwest's embedded Photo
Food Porn!
If a lot of your workouts are on the extreme side and/or you participate in endurance events, you're going to need some carbs. Choose wisely.

From: Owl
15-Dec-18
Lots of athletes compete in endurance events on keto. And it makes sense. Once fat adapted, even the thinnest person has about 100,000 calories of adipose tissue from which to fuel. Tons of positive feedback.

Dr. Shawn Baker has set competitive lifting records after years of a strict carnivore protocol. The success of these athletes, I believe, boils down to having the enzymatic processes in place to make use of fat. Most of us would struggle with that, though, having lived decades addicted to glucose as a fuel source. So, for the metabolically deranged, performance "success" does become a matter of really dialing in proper allotment of lowest possible "clean" carbs.

From: SteveB
15-Dec-18
My wife started in May and lost 40 lbs in 5 months without exercise. Now on modified Keto which is just barely allowing a few small complex carbs and still losing slowly.

From: midwest
15-Dec-18
You calling me deranged, Owl? ;-)

From: Owl
15-Dec-18
If the enzymes fit, midwest. lol

From: Ermine
16-Dec-18
Interesting. I would have thought it wouldn’t be sustainable for athletes etc. interesting to know it can be

From: Owl
16-Dec-18
We have over 99% ice age DNA. Consider what food sources would be available in an ice age for foregut digesters. This is simple.

From: Dooner
16-Dec-18
So,..., Randy, is the Keto diet basically the Paleo without fruits, and natural sugars, like raw honey?

Did you give up all alcohol?? I'd be hard pressed to give up wine with dinner:-)

From: Owl
16-Dec-18
Dave, "Paleo" isn't paleo. lol It's basically a whole food diet. And, while that isn't ancestral per se, it is much better than the SAD. Keto isn't intrinsically ancestral, either. It can be practiced to mimic a pre-industrial and pre-agriculture diet but the keto legions would have to give up dairy (and coffee and nuts...) There are some that OG but it ain't me. lol

Keto, to my understanding, is a macro controlled diet where 70-75% of calories come from fat and carbs are kept between 20-50 grams and only comprised of vegetables and any incidental carbs to fat and protein sources (trace amounts). Protein gets tweaked according to its effect on blood sugar. (Your glucometer is your best ally.)

I gave up alcohol for a few years. When finishing my training for the Kodiak hunt last month, I added 2 beers a day on the days I knew I would exercise (to replicate effort on the island) and tested my glucose. The practice did not negatively impact my glucose so I went with it. My current goal is to slowly improve anaerobic performance while keeping my post-prandial glucose under 90 (preferably under 83).

Right now, I eat once or twice a day and supplement with desiccated organ pills (liver, spleen, heart, kidneys) because I don't like organ meats.

That's my version of it.

From: Trax
16-Dec-18
Difficult to make some of my favorites soups and other dishes. Onions are not allowed? Tomatoes being technically fruit are not allowed? Black beans are not allowed? Natural peanut butter allowed but what prey tell other than celery do you put it on?

From: Nick Muche
16-Dec-18
I eat onions. It’ll buff...

From: Kodiak
16-Dec-18
A medium sized onion has 14 grams of sugar.

From: Dooner
16-Dec-18
Randy,

"I added 2 beers a day on the days I knew I would exercise" So, are you saying that you exercise every day now?? :-)

16-Dec-18
I can't give up onions. But they're generally eaten in small amounts anyways.

From: Nick Muche
17-Dec-18
I grind onions up into a purée, put them in a syringe and main line them.

17-Dec-18
Well Nick, you have bigger things to worry about than falling out of ketosis then...

From: Owl
17-Dec-18
Religiously, Dave. :)

Onions and nightshades tend to fall into the category of food sensitivity relative to insulin. For some it spikes and some it doesn't. Like IdyllwildArcher mentioned, onions tend to be eaten in small enough quantities they don't need controlling. Unless you're Nick. lol

From: Catscratch
17-Dec-18
I think I did a good job over the last week figuring out what foods I can eat and I did some experimenting with cooking different meals. So far it's easy peasy for 2 meals a day. I had carbs during a 6hr drive on Saturday (coffee and ice cream), and I had a couple of beers Sunday. I can fix these things in time.

Quick question; what ratio should I be eating these macro's? I'm finding it's "easy" to eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, and cheese. What kind of ratio should meat and eggs be in comparison to the veggies?

Onions won't be a problem for me. Certainly not an intravenous user anyway. :)

From: Bonafide
17-Dec-18
Cat~In order to achieve Ketosis you need to stick to the correct macro ratio, if you don’t you’re not doing it right and doing more bad than good. Calories from 60-75% fat; 15-30% protein & 5-10% carbs, also eliminating sugar by using substitutes will lower your chance of developing diabetes. When counting carbs you should only count the Net carbs not the total carbs. Net carbs equation is total carbs minus the protein & sugar alcohols. If any of this doesn’t make sense just do a simple google search for the terms I’m using to get a more in depth explanation. Achieving Ketosis takes a few weeks & cheating on a meal can knock you right out of it, that’s why it takes a lot of discipline when living this lifestyle. The goal is to become fat adapted which can take a couple months to achieve which means you’ve restricted enough carbs to induce an increase in fat burning. I would recommend buy books to help understand what to eat, when to eat & what not to eat. Good luck & hope you reach your goal.

From: Kodiak
17-Dec-18
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrRDnLJdjmQ

From: Brotsky
17-Dec-18
Cat, there are awesome phone apps that you can download to help track and plan your daily food intake. These really help keep you on track and in balance with your macros. You enter your daily meal plan and it'll spit out how many grams of protein, fats, and carbs are in your meals and how well that fits into your macros. It was a lifesaver for me when I stared out. I think the one I use is called "Keto diet tracker" or something like that.

From: Bonafide
17-Dec-18
To add to what Brotsky posted, you can also scan the bar code of your ingredients and it will to you the % of macros for each. I use my fitness pal app.

From: Owl
17-Dec-18
Net carbs = total carbs - fiber.

Cat, my approach to macros was to treat everything as a fat delivery mechanism. Vegetables or protein. I never measured cruciferous vegetables, just tried to have a couple of handfuls a day. I did measure protein because too much would spike my BG early on. I stopped once I could eyeball what worked.

It's actually difficult to eat the fat you need so I chose my food according to how I could laden it with fat. Satiety was my only real measure and, trust me, your body dials into that PDQ.

From: midwest
17-Dec-18
"Right now, I eat once or twice a day..."

Whaaaaa???

From: Owl
17-Dec-18
autophagy, bro. :) It's essentially what people want by intermittent fasting.

From: Trax
17-Dec-18
I know you can't just load up on bacon and cheese all day every day. With 70% of your diet being fat, what are the primary healthy fats you consume on a consistent or daily basis?

From: Brotsky
17-Dec-18
Avocado's are a great source, nut's in moderation watching carb intake, eggs, coconut oil, and olive oil are the sources I use. Fatty fish is also good, like salmon or tuna.

From: BULELK1
18-Dec-18

BULELK1's Link
If it's good enough for Jenna...……………

Good luck, Robb

From: Catscratch
18-Dec-18
Owl, Brotsky, Bonifide, everybody else... Thanks for all the info! I'm soaking it all in, just not quite there yet.

Just to be clear, I know I'm not in keto yet and won't be until I commit completely (I know "cheating" won't work). I'm making adjustments and currently I've changed 2 out of 3 meals a day. Once I have everything figured out and a complete understanding of what I'm doing I'll be ready to do this thing. I just don't want the plan to fail because I jumped in before knowing what I was doing. I'm getting there... thanks again.

From: midwest
18-Dec-18

  • Sitka Gear