Contributors to this thread:
Add TN to the CWD list
Seven cases tested positive in TN. All 100% wild, free-ranging. Now how did they get it?
This is the sidebar I am running in my newspapers, next week.
CWD FOUND IN TN.
Ten cases of CWD have been detected in two, TN counties. Seven have been found in Fayette County and three in Hardeman. Is the sky falling? NO! Back in March, I wrote a column about CWD. In that column, I expressed my belief that as long as there has been significant populations of cervidae, members of the deer family, there has been CWD. We humans, did not discover CWD. We discovered the test for it. I believe it has always been present. We have, however helped tremendously in spreading it. As habitat shrinks, deer are forced to more closely associate. We made that worse. We began to plant supplemental food sources, congregating them more. In addition, for whatever reason, we began to feed them and that exacerbated the problem. However, probably the most harmful thing we did was start “deer farming”, creating penned populations like domestic cattle. And then we transported them from one area to another. Anything that causes a closer association of cervids, promotes the spread of any disease. CWD is spread through bodily fluids-urine, mucus, feces, sperm, etc. It is a prion borne disease and to date, there is no proof it can spread to other species, including humans. I list the greatest dangers in the spread as follows: (1)-Deer farming and transportation of animals from one area to another. (2)- Feeding or baiting. (3)-Supplemental food plots. (4)- Taking intact thought dead deer from one area to another. I firmly believe, we did not discover CWD, we discovered the test for it. I am convinced, it has always been in significant cervid populations. It did not just suddenly appear. I will not quit eating deer meat. I won’t eat meat from any deer that appears sick. However, I will kill it and immediately call a game warden. Other than that, for me, it will be business as usual. I see no reason to panic. Just take proper precautions. ###
It’s always been here is bull. I have family in the hotzone in Wisconsin that have lived there for over 50 years and they never saw any sick deer with cwd symptoms until just a few years ago. If it’s been there the whole time wouldn’t they have.? If it’s been here the whole time why are there just certain areas infected? You’re saying that it is in my area now but since they are not testing I just don’t know about it. Why do we not have any sick or emaciated deer now?
I firmly believe that it has been present subtly present in most NA deer herds; the percentage of infected deer showing clinical signs is so minute that it is not a disease like EHD where you see lots of infected/affected deer visibly.
The illinois DNR has butchered the deer herd based solely on finding CWD and i believe that as additional states continue to test there is the possibility for it to happen in various states.
This is a non curative disease and will not go away. I strongly urge people in Illinois NOT to test their deer for CWD in counties that currently "do not have cwd".
i hunt a lot in so-called cwd areas. never see any sick deer. maybe they need to take the work chronic out of the name.
By killing every deer in a cwd zone they are not only killing the cwd deer but also the deer that may be genetically resistant to it. When deer breed they lick each other, baiting bans my slow it down but what needs to happen is genetic resistance. Think about elk herds in winter should we shoot a thousand elk because 2 look sick? I think the game departments just like spending our taxpayer dollars.
All of the above statements hold some validity. What no one has mentioned, is economic factor...and I am not talking about loss of revenue. There surely will be some. Think for a minute about federal grants to study and control. Think of federal funds coming to state agencies. I am not accusing any one or any state of anything. I am simply saying, follow the money. CWD will never be eradicated. It is impossible unless you completely eradicate all cervidae. If you know anything about it, compare this with the current, Asian carp program. Three weeks ago, I spent 3/4-of a day with some professional biologist. Much of that time was spent, discussing CWD and the impacts thereof. No, I am not going to share any of it or give any names. What I will do, is suggest things to consider and evaluate. I know what is being done in the private sector on large-scale operations and I know what states are trying to do. Let me just say this, "You aint seen nuthin, yet."
I've lived and hunted in the N. CO core hot zone for nearly 60 years and see deer on almost a daily basis. I've never seen what I would consider a sick or emaciated deer. elk, or moose wandering around, although a cow elk wandered onto my friend's driveway and died about 10 years ago.
We don't test anything. I don't know anyone who tests anymore. If the jump to CJDv is going to happen, it would likely happen here. The percentage of CJDv in our county, where thousands of people have eaten infected meat for at least the past 60 years (assuming the "spontaneous eruption" theory, which I don't believe) is lower than the national average..
And I agree with Bowriter's column.
Now. On another note. What are the inherent dangers of CWD? Most miss one of the most serious. When you get past transmission to other species and herd decimation, consider what it has the potential to do to the sale licenses and hunting. Give that some hard thought. Now, go a step deeper. What could the impact be to out of state hunting? Think about that. And now, it trickles down. What impact would hit guides and outfitters, taxidermists etc. What if...what if, you could not bring any meat, hide or cervid head and antlers from any out of state hunt? Take a minute and think about that. Think past the obvious. It is like a great, highly seasoned meal. Tastes good, great going down. But...there is a different impact, tomorrow. I do not claim to be an expert. I just want you to think. I have been following this for almost 49-years. Allow me to re-state. We did not discover CWD. It was always here. We discovered the test for it. And then came, the slow building panic.
This is as of a few minutes ago-Saturday morning 9:25.
"Although CWD has no known risk to the health of humans or livestock, it is a contagious and deadly neurological disorder that affects members of the deer family. It is transmitted through animal-to-animal contact, animal contact with a contaminated environment, and with contaminated feed or water sources. It is the most significant threat to the deer population nationwide, as it is 100 percent fatal to deer and elk. Wildlife agencies across the country are working to inform the public about CWD, its deadly results and possible impacts to economies."
Care to discuss propaganda? The sky is falling. Hurry let us lay some groundwork for what is about to follow.
I can tell you in two words, how to overnight, have a CWD-free state. QUIT TESTING. Now, I will tell you in three words, how to "discover", CWD. INCREASE TESTING.
Which one will generate the most financial support?
Personally, I believe it has always been present or existed in a state that could make it present with the right conditions. And, while I'd never eat an animal I thought was sick, I give it no more thought. So many people act as if this is the end. Its been documented in a lot of places for a long time and it has not marked the end for those herd animals.
Thank the lord you are more enlightened than the brilliant scientists dedicating their lives studying prions diseases who still know very little. I am sure when they read your column they'll throw in the towel and find a new line of work.
I also live in the original discovery hot spot and the worst impact of CWD has been wildlife departments culling herds since that is the only tool they have in the box. Luckily they backed off but muleys are slow to recover.
Deer only outwardly show symptoms in the very last stages. My gut tells me its always been around to some degree. Its worth keeping an eye on but so far the danger to humans has been zero. If that changes someday I will react accordingly. Reindeer in Norway have it.
Well, the panic has hit. My source in Fayette County, tells me hunters are leaving deer in the woods or staying home. Rumor is, a deer was brought in from Missouri and that's how it started. Gives me some thought. If others quit hunting, I'll sure have a lot of land available.
ElkYinzer-I'm sure you are right. Have a blessed day.
We now how 4 confirmed cases in MS that are all free-range deer. Two cases in lower Ms. Delta in Issaquena County and one case in Ponotoc County and one case in Marshall County. Hunters and deer camps are helping MDWF&P to collect lymph node glands on killed deer. MDWF&P folks, land owners and hunter scratching heads as to the cause of the disease in the state.
Like a few other posters I've lived in the original hotspot the last 30yrs, its "been here" 50 as far as they know. The buck I killed this year is delicious! CP&W has killed more deer in this area than CWD ever will, and they did it in a season or two!
I have a great friend who is a Federal wildlife biologist so I have a little insight to what they are thinking and it is dooms day all the way . He thinks man created this with the pen deer out in Colorado. I tend to be like bowriter and think it has always been here and if that is the case they could be very well killing off the deer that have natural immunity with there culling programs , but I do not know . If it is bad as feds think it could be the collapse of our entire economy could be on the way . Bowriter won’t share but I will . No game department will exist as we know it , license sales to hunt cervieds will be gone and this makes up the largest portion of a lot of there budgets. Every industry that depends on cervieds for there moneys will be gone not just outfitters , guides. It will go much deeper than that . All your bow company’s will be gone . Many gun companies will suffer . Call companies ,list goes on and on and this stuff could turn out to be the little things . There is some antidotel evidence it could transfer to humans if that becomes the case you have infected deer running all over the country peeing and pooping all in corn soybean fields and this could lead to the contamination of our entire food supply if the plants take this prion up into there bodies. Which in turn would lead to collapse of our entire economy. But sadly they know none of this , but they are in a panic mode and maybe they should be . I just do not know .
Just curious as to thoughts of feeding in southern states (like Texas) and CWD? Feeding wild and high fenced populations has existed for decades down there and many tons of feed are given out annually. Most of these operations take deer health very seriously using tranquilizer guns, helicopter netting, and trapping to take blood/genetic samples to monitor health. To my knowledge these operations have yet to find a direct correlation between feed (or the mode of feeding) that spreads CWD. Is this contradictory to what is being pushed right now? Is there someone on this site involved with a feeding program that has studied their animal's health (either wild or high fenced) and has some experience? I would like to know what guys in this situation have to say. To clarify I consider high fenced to be somewhat large acreage and not a feedlot setting. If you google "cwd map" and look at images it shows that the southern states that have such a high incidence of feeding are actually quite low in CWD cases.
Unless I have over read it here somewhere- no one has mentioned the monetary devaluation of property value with the hysteria of CWD. How much with the value of an acre of land drop? Think about people who bought a share of stock in an exclusive hunting club and the devaluation of their stock share.
Interesting thoughts to say the least
That would be on the list Greg . I personally have already taken a wait and see attitude before I buy any more Land to hunt whitetail’s on . Like I said the list goes on and on . Never ending
That would be on the list Greg . I personally have already taken a wait and see attitude before I buy any more Land to hunt whitetail’s on . Like I said the list goes on and on . Never ending
I would think the marginal farming ground in the Midwest that is such great whitetail hunting ground would lose 2/3 ed of its current value .
if CWD is so deadly why to they have to test for it, it is not obvious. wtf
CWD.....Con job using Wild Deer. CWD is a prop being used against the hunting public. In 50 years of being in the woods I have never seen a sick deer. I currently live in a "hot zone" and have never seen a sick deer or even found a dead sick deer or remains.
Those that have seen a sick deer it probably was sick from something unrelated. "Oh but they sent it in and the DNR said it was CWD".....of course they did. That`s the PLAN. Wake up people.
Now some of you are thinking.
What's the motive behind this CWD conspiracy theory? I am totally lost here.
I'm sure you are right, Elk Yinzer. Hope you have a great day and find your way.
You make charged accusations with nothing to support it other than the usual rhetoric that you know more people than we know. It's pure bull. What incentive does any agency have to react to CWD in the manner you accuse them of? They don't! Your fake news conspiracy theories just don't hold water.
Yep, you are right as usual.
its the same as the Y2K impending disaster. an excuse to spend a bunch of money on studies etc. in the end all the money gets spent and there is nothing there.
I have to agree with John with one exception. I don't believe supplemental feeding or food plots are a big factor unless it's with penned deer. If it were, Texas would be eaten up with CWD, because people have been feeding deer here most of my life, and crops that deer eat have been grown all over the midwest for longer than that. Deer don't know the difference between a five acre plot and a hundred acre field. I realize that a food plot is smaller, but doe groups and buck groups, even in a large field, normally feed together. Bucks and does chew licking branches, groom and lick one another, etc. I have to believe (as Dr. James Kroll said also), that it has always been here, and we "found" it. We continue to find it because we're looking for it.
It may or may not have been here for a long time but to dismiss its spreading is wishful thinking. It has increased significantly in the past 30 years in the "hot zones". Areas that had a few positive tests years ago are up to 50% of the herd now (southern Wisconsin). I'm not sure how bad it really is or how bad it will get but ignoring the issue and scientific studies because you're a hunter and know better is ignorant. Worse yet, someone that benefits financially from hunting. Pathetic.
Let's all hope and pray the sky isn't falling and concurrently throw our support towards the small group of professionals doing their best to get to the bottom of this. There is no reason for state and local governments to throw money and or support towards research and testing. Hunters that care should be backing the effort to learn more.
In the northern counties of Illinois they "used" CWD as the reason for having sharpshooters decimate the deer herds. They would enter peoples properties unannounced and jacklight the deer at night. When these groups were confronted by landowners they were bullied into believing the DNR has the right to trespass onto anyone`s property. Many of these "sharpshooters" were LEOs to boot.
They decimated the herds so bad that many stopped buying deer tags. Full time taxidermists went from 75 local deer heads a year to 11-15. Car repair shops gross receipts dropped as the deer/car collisions dropped dramatically. These herds have NEVER rebounded and the hunters have not returned anywhere near the levels they were.
The outcry was so great giant billboards were being purchased with information ads targeting what the DNR was doing. Turns out it really wasn`t CWD but Insurance lobbyist that was driving the agenda. To this day you can drive the roads at dusk and not see a single deer in the fields.
Back in the 80-90`s Lake County Illinois was rated as the #1 or #2 county in the nation by bowhunting magazines for a chance at a Pope and Young deer. In 4 counties surrounding Chicago there is no gun season.....they are "archery only". You have no idea what it was like back in the heyday. There is no telling how far they would of took this if the sportsman didn`t raise holy hell and put an end to it.
It`s not a myth....we lived it.
That's a shame Franklin but we shouldn't ignore the entire CWD topic because a bunch of cowboys tried to get away with those shenanigans in northern Illinois. If that's true, and I have no reason not to believe what you type isn't', those people should have faced charges.
Here is something to think about. Who would benefit the most from the perpetuation of this information and pushing to have testing done? I am not a conspiracy person but this is something to think about. Who is doing everything they can to stop hunting? Anti-Hunting Organizations and their Acolytes. Read Acolyes as Politicians who are doing it for the public good. The best we know CDW does not affect humans, but some people have compared it to Mad Cow disease in Europe. Once that fear is created it doesn't go away. Example: I work in the Medical Field. Many years ago rumor was spread that vaccinations used in children caused Autisum. Somebody wanted to blame something for this condition. The rumor was, it was because of the mercury that is used as the preservative in those vaccinations. It has been proven many times over this rumor was/is false. Trust me if Pediatricians thought this to be true, they wouldn't be giving these vaccines. None of them want to see children with Autisum. You get way more mercury out of a glass of drinking water than what is used as a preservative in these vaccines. That rumor is still perpetuatated today especially on the Internet. I also heard on the radio the other day that some Congressman made comments that is still perpetuating this myth/lie. It WON"T go away. If people are afraid of being affected by something they ingest, especially something they can't tell if it is affected or not, they will quit eating it. So deer hunting will decline faster, which is the largest portion of hunters these days, and hunting is declining anyway. For Anti-Hunters it is a win win situation. If less people hunt, they will be able to get legislation past easier to stop all hunting, because there will be less opposition against them, and for them they won't have to spend as much money to stop hunting. So ask yourself who benefits from all of this. Just something to think about. DANNY
It's very easy to compare CWD to mad cow and scrapes. They are all in fact prion diseases. I think you're spot on comparing CWD research to vaccination conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately the research and facts in this case are on the side of 30 years of science and the rumors perpetuated by industry "professionals" are spouting the myths that WON'T go away.
Everyone that hunts wants this to be no big deal, including myself. That doesn't mean we should ignore the facts and join the assumption crowd. I really hope we'll get ahead of this and prove it isn't a big deal, find a cure or whatever. Until then it would be helpful for hunters to remain calm and objective.
ND string puller: As a DVM I try and keep up on all diseases of animals, especially deer since I like to hunt them. I was NOT aware that deer "may be genetically resistant to it". I did a search and can not find that info. Could you please cite your source (publication). Thanks in advance.
Weekender, wholesale slaughter is one of the tools in their toolbox. Some biologists even believe wolves are the answer to CWD. Coming to your hunting ground soon!
I am completely on board with trying to develop a reliable test for living animals, as well as finding any kind or preventative or cure, although I have no clue how you would deliver it. I'm all for testing deer in pens, controlling how those deer are transported, sold, swapped, etc. (Actually, I personally wish it was illegal to pen and breed deer). I'm all for hunters testing their deer and road killed deer being tested. I'm all for allowing no live deer to be allowed to come into the state. We do all that here. What I am not on board with is the wholesale slaughter of deer just because game departments don't know what the hell they're dealing with. So far, Texas has resisted that stupidity. Panic over the unknown will get us nowhere. Imagine if we had taken that route with polio, smallpox, or any number of other diseases that we once knew nothing about.
I don't believe any research has focused on genetic resistance because they have been so keyed on transmission methods. But consider this: In a true hot zone like where I live, its pretty safe to say that nearly all deer are exposed at some point in their lives. It is 100% fatal. It has been more than 50 years since it was "discovered" here. Theoretically there should be dead deer everywhere and a massive herd collapse. Yet the only impact on the deer population was due to to the mass slaughter by the CDOW (which they admit was a colossal mistake) and now the herds are finally rebounding.
So if not a genetic resistance, some other natural resistance must exist or mule deer would be virtually extinct in our area.
I am not aware of an actual study, I'm sure someone has, we just haven't been privy to the information. It's my thinking after all these years we should have seen a bigger die off like Jaq said. I've talked to deer breeders, who (although I don't agree with what they are doing) know way more about genetics than I ever will. They have invested they life in genetics really similar to cattle breeding. If a cwd deer test positive in their operation the whole herd is killed. In those cases did all the deer test positive, he says no. So they are just as concerned as about cwd as the rest of us. There seems to be a hidden agenda, and it makes me sick. Not sure how we can fight this, but it for sure it will be the Decommercialization of hunting that gets the "industry" fired up. My 2 cents.
Who would like to see herds decimated to the point that hunting was not needed or allowed?
Who has huge budgets of donated money to lobby and proselytize to further their cause?
Who declares the end validates the means? (ie. let wolves decimate elk herds so you can't practice your "cruelty")
Follow the money and the blind, selfish idealism that supplies it.
Maybe the same people that make it illegal to donate meat to hungry people under the guise they might get lead poisoning. Better kids go hungry now so animals don't suffer in the future.
Maybe slaughter herds now and render the rest "uneatable" so animals won't be killed in the future. The same people that believe having no animals is far better than having many animals and some of them hunted.
Don't deer live in the same areas as cattle and sheep? I run into free range cattle all the time in northern Colorado in a cwd area. Shouldn't those cows catch it? What about in Wisconsin, don't the deer and cattle inhabit the same pastures? If we can catch it, shouldn't the cows be able to catch it? Does anybody test the cattle for the prion? My point is simply, if it can jump from them to us, it doesn't matter if you hunt or not. Plus, wouldn't we spread it as easily as them? Share a glass of water, kiss as your girlfriend, et cetera, wouldn't that spread it? Can't we trace most known cases of scapes, mad cow,cwd, to humans? Animal products to livestock that is unnatural. I think that cwd may naturally occur, however to try and say that it wasn't exacerbated by CSU seems silly. You can trace most occurrences of positive tests back to Colorado. Plus, any new ones, how do we know that deer urine scent from a game farm didn't cause those? Bowriter for some reason is determined to keep asking the band to play on, while others are getting into the lifeboats......he is entitled to his opinion, but I find it suspicious that he starts a thread like this often.
In a ten-year study, during which 41 calves were distributed to pens containing CWD positive deer and elk in pens located in Sybille Canyon, WY, Ft. Collins, CO and Ames, IA. Not one tested positive for CWD. Cattle were housed with heavily infected elk, in pens that had been housing said elk for many years. They were fed with them and lived with them. Not one case. Source-Journal of Wildlife Diseases; July 2018.
I don't believe food plot are a big concern. but I can believe deer scent product could play a roll as it is collected from pen raised deer. just saying
Bowriter, that is useful information, thank you.
The Kentucky department of fish and wildlife just announced a ban on the importation of deer parts from TN that include the spine and brain tissue. I called and left a message at the main switchboard in Frankfort that they will need to build a wall on the southern border as the deer just walk back and forth every day. Maybe Trump can lend a hand.
get rid of pen raised deer. get rid of problem
Joe Rogan experience #1154 on CWD. It's really long but many of the questions being asked on this thread are thoroughly answered by Bryan Richards, the CWD project leader for the U.S. Geological Survey's National Wildlife Health Center. He's been studying the disease longer than most. The other gentleman lives in a County of Wisconsin with 50% positive test rate, his perspective is also very educational.
If you have the time and really care about the future of deer hunting it's a good one to watch or listen to.
Misinformation and malformed opinions could be worst than the disease itself.All three add up to $$$. Money keeps hunting in the loop with state and federal politicians .
CWD isn’t a bullet hole in our sail but more like a shotgun wound and each individual hole has potential to worsen.
EDUCATION of what CWD is and IS Not is paramount.
I do not think herds should be decimated, but rather reduced in certain high density areas. Best to keep an open mind as we move forward. From known CWD areas I test all venison before consumption and only feed to those able to understand the "potential" risks. I will not feed to young children, there are other protein alternatives. Testing is not 100% conclusive, just an available tool. I believe the worse is yet to come.
That's the one weekender. Do you agree wolves could potentially be the answer to CWD?
What do we do to humans during an Ebola (or any contagious disease) outbreak? Do we go in and decimate the at risk population, or do we just limit travel protocol to keep it contained? Of course humans are different than animals and maybe the best biological strategy is to go in and kill the at risk population.
Nature has a way of sorting things like this out. Either predators kill off enough of the slow and weak that the spread ceases and the disease becomes irrelevant, or genetic diversity provides resistance, or the species dies out, or the disease simply doesn't affect enough of the population to matter. Wolves don't range the entire whitetail range so non-human predators isn't going to do the job. Sharp-shooting the affected area's down to nothing might just kill off any chance of genetic resistance (some might be genetically predispositioned to survive CWD, but those individuals aren't going to survive a bullet). Letting the disease run it's course is scary (extinction?). I hope that the people who know the most can find the right answer!
Catscratch, CO DOW was the first to attempt a massive herd reduction in both mountain mule deer and river bottom whitetails. Neither worked. They admit it was a huge mistake but other game departments don't seem to learn from that. The interesting thing is that the herds are recovering well in spite of CWD and the slaughter.
Now that they believe bucks are major culprits in spreading it from doe group to doe group, they are giving out more buck tags in our area to knock the buck-doe ratio down. It appears to be working, as the infection rate seems to be decreasing (or not increasing)
But what we don't have here is the deer density per square mile as in some midwest and eastern states. What they do know after more than 50 years of studying it here is that deer populations can grow and thrive even with a high infection rate. Hunter numbers are increasing and there is more demand for tags than ever. It's not even a topic of conversation around here anymore and the game processors I know don't ask if animals have been tested.
Since prions live in the soil, it will be really interesting to see if it pops back up in Norway after they kill every single reindeer in the infected area, as they are now doing.
It has been proven, CWD may lay dormant in a carrier for as long as seven years before becoming active. During that time span, it can still be spread and can resist almost any effort to remove from soil. The complete decimation of any herd, is in short, an exercise in futility. Nor can you eliminate EHD or animal/vehicle fatality, both which kill far more deer than CWD. There is a minor panic, here in TN, going on right now. A couple other outdoor writers and I have decided to treat it as a minor news item. The most concernable factor is the possible impact it is going to have on hunting and the license sales, thereof. There is only one, valid plan for the control of CWD and Mother Nature is not divulging it.
Man plans, Mother Nature laughs.