Summit Treestands
Points question?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
ben h 01-Jan-19
tkjwonta 01-Jan-19
StickFlicker 02-Jan-19
WapitiBob 02-Jan-19
LKH 02-Jan-19
Z Barebow 02-Jan-19
Shrewski 02-Jan-19
wildwilderness 02-Jan-19
KHunter 02-Jan-19
Z Barebow 02-Jan-19
StickFlicker 02-Jan-19
ben h 02-Jan-19
tkjwonta 03-Jan-19
Glunt@work 03-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 03-Jan-19
Trial153 03-Jan-19
wildwilderness 03-Jan-19
BadlandsRoger 03-Jan-19
midwest 04-Jan-19
Knothead 04-Jan-19
Native Okie 04-Jan-19
From: ben h
01-Jan-19
What happens to points when you change states for residency? I'm originally from Utah and have 14 elk points, and 7 in Wyoming as a non-resident. I still maintain a residence in UT, however I haven't really been back there in a year and live primarily in Oregon. If you change states, what becomes of the point status? What if you change back at a future time?

From: tkjwonta
01-Jan-19
As far as I am aware, most states view points based on your current state of residence. In other words, once you move out of state, you become a non-resident. There is at least one state, Arizona, where if you buy a lifetime license as a resident, you stay in the resident points pool if you move out of state. But I think that is the exception rather than the rule.

From: StickFlicker
02-Jan-19
Utah takes this very seriously, so you should probably call them just to make sure. But as tkj said, I think they would just "convert" to non-resident points. The thing that matters most is the license and application fees. If you don't live in those states anymore, you will need to buy this year's non-resident license and apply as a NR paying the NR fees for the particular species. The points are probably immaterial as to whether they are R or NR.

From: WapitiBob
02-Jan-19
Both Oregon and Utah have a time component to residency. As Stick said, call them.

From: LKH
02-Jan-19
Get the right info from the state involved. Every year we seem to hear about someone who tried to game the system by keeping resident status after they moved. Big fines, loss of trophies and loss of hunting privilege in 38 states are things to take seriously.

From: Z Barebow
02-Jan-19
Repeating what others have said. Look hard at residency requirements and then call as follow up.

I seem to remember someone recently trying to game the system for residency in Utah for sheep and they came down on him hard.

From: Shrewski
02-Jan-19
Z—Larry Altimus

I hope to retire in AZ one day so all these points do me some good. Actually I should move to AZ for a year, get my lifetime license them move to Nevada...not sure I could talk the wife into that one.

02-Jan-19
You are not a Utah Resident (unless you are a student/active duty, and do not claim residency in any other state. No western state lets you claim two states as a resident). Your points are the same. You must have a valid NR license to apply in the draw, you will be in the Non-Resident pool.

One major difference in UT for Res vs Non Res- you can apply for all species including OIL and Limited, however (if you are so lucky) you can only get 1 permit in the draw.

From: KHunter
02-Jan-19
Yup if you have not been back to UT in a year you are NOT a resident in the draw. They will skewer you if they catch you try for resident licenses.

From Utah website: Resident means a person who has a fixed permanent home and principal establishment in Utah for six consecutive months immediately preceding the purchase of a license or permit, AND DOES NOT claim residency for hunting, fishing or trapping in any other state or country.

An individual retains Utah residency if he or she leaves Utah to serve in the armed forces of the United States, or for religious or educational purposes, and does NOT claim residency for hunting, fishing or trapping in any other state or country.

Members of the armed forces of the United States and dependents are residents as of the date the member reports for duty under assigned orders in Utah, if:

the member is NOT on temporary duty in Utah and does NOT claim residency for hunting, fishing or trapping in any other state or country. the member presents a copy of his or her assignment orders to a Division office to verify the member's qualification as a resident. A nonresident attending an institution of higher learning in Utah as a full-time student may qualify as a resident if the student has been present in Utah for 60 consecutive days immediately preceding the purchase of the license or permit and does NOT claim residency for hunting, fishing or trapping in any other state or country.

A Utah resident license or permit is invalid if a resident license for hunting, fishing or trapping is purchased in any other state or country.

An individual DOES NOT qualify as a resident if he or she is an absentee landowner paying property tax on land in Utah.

For more information, read the definition of "Resident" in the Utah State Code.

From: Z Barebow
02-Jan-19
Shrewski- I think I should study the residency rules for each state. When I retire, my bride and I should buy a 5th wheel camper and take up residency in a different state each year to take advantage of stored up PP's!

From: StickFlicker
02-Jan-19
ZB and Shrewski,

That's exactly what the person that moved to UT and became a resident to apply for sheep did (that got in trouble as ZB mentioned). Utah has a little known law that says if you move there and become a resident principally for the reason to gain some advantage (I don't know the exact wording) of being a resident, then they can prosecute you on that law regardless of the fact that you met the residency requirement at the time you applied and drew the tag. Knowing all the laws that you THINK apply is not enough anymore. You almost need to hire an attorney just to apply without getting in trouble. You can Google it and find out more about that case if you wish.

From: ben h
02-Jan-19
Thank you for all the responses. This is proving to be trickier than I thought and definitely worth further investigation. I'm sort of in an unusual situation. I work for a company that has offices in every State, Country and Province in almost all of North and South America and the bean counters for tax or legal purposes put me in Oregon which is also where I do most of my work from even though we have an office 11 miles away in Washington (no income tax) and all my work is somewhere else anyway. Before this, my primary residence was Utah and still is. Almost all my stuff is there and my house is there, I just don't go there very often and ironically since 2003, I've never done any project work there until this last month after "moving" to Oregon (I put that in quotes, because I have a desk in Oregon, an apartment and a mail box, but don't even work there, so far it's mostly been in California, Canada and Texas).

I think I could potentially fall into the exact situation StickFlicker pointed out.

From: tkjwonta
03-Jan-19
I would call Utah DWR, or better yet email, so you have an electronic record of their response. As mentioned with the sheep case, you are better off getting confirmation upfront rather than hoping they interpret the rules the same way that you do.

From: Glunt@work
03-Jan-19
I had a buddy who got in trouble years ago. He moved and hadn't lived in his new state long enough to be a resident but was no longer a resident here either. For that season, he wasn't a resident anywhere as far as hunting was concerned.

03-Jan-19
It matters where you are, not where your stuff is, not where you consider your primary residence, not where your passport sits in a file, not where your mom sends your birthday cards to, etc. Where you physically are. Where you lay your head is your place of residence. Where you work and shop and live and go to bed at night the bulk of the time, that's where you are a resident of.

Before I changed my residence to Alaska, I hired an Alaskan lawyer who specialized on the matter and that's what he told me. I didn't want to get nailed just because I retain a house in California, even though I spend 50% more time in AK than I do in CA.

If you spend the bulk of your time in Oregon and you have a place in Oregon, you're an Oregon resident. You should claim residence in OR for hunting, vote in OR, etc. If you're worried, talk to a lawyer. A chat with one and follow up is not that much money and this is what they do for a living.

Personally, I'd rather be a resident hunter of UT than OR. From a hunting standpoint, you get more out of being a UT resident than you do being an OR resident. Resist the urge to do what is best for your hunting while testing the edges of legality. The guy mentioned above tried to use his NR sheep points to draw a Resident tag and he got hammered. He tried to be legal and a Utah court threw the book at him.

"I still maintain a residence in UT, however I haven't really been back there in a year and live primarily in Oregon."

You're an Oregon resident. And a Utah NR. No matter how financially, emotionally, historically, etc, tied you are to the state of Utah, you're a NR in Utah. If you don't believe me and you shouldn't, consult a lawyer.

From: Trial153
03-Jan-19

03-Jan-19
Previous primary residency only matters for Full time Students and Military. Where you pay your taxes is a big indicator of residency. Other things like drivers licenses and voter registration will help make a case. As mentioned, the sheep hunter ran into the problem with "intent". Many states have the clause that you intended to make the state your permanent home. If you can get your taxes switched to Utah, maintain your UT DL, voter registration, have a wife and kids living in your UT house full time, and visit them regularly, you may get away with saying you only travel for work to OR...

In all reality the only reason the sheep hunter was prosecuted comes back to being a well known outfitter from Arizona, and "moving" to a small Utah town where everyone knew what was up, then shooting a big DBS and moving back to AZ. In your case, no one will really care if you keep UT or not- unless you kill something big enough to get noticed!

03-Jan-19
Back when I graduated from College (I was an Idaho resident) I took a job in Utah, but my employer said they would move me back to Idaho within a couple of years. I held onto my Idaho drivers license and continued to hunt there as a resident and bought UT non resident licenses for my activities there. Come to find out that the respective states share tax data with one another and I had filed taxes as a Utah resident and purchased Idaho resident tags. Idaho F&G took exception to this and hauled me into court. I was cooperative with them and I showed up to court nicely dressed in a suit and tie and everybody else in his courtroom looked like they were panhandlers. I told him my situation and explained that I thought I was going back to Idaho and that I never purchased a resident license in Utah. I was fortunate and my penalty was payment of the difference in resident and non-resident prices for all of the licences I had purchased in two years. He could have easily thrown on several thousand in penalties but I think he realized I wasn't being malicious, plus I was a pretty young kid back then.

Point of the story is they are watching you in more ways than you think. As others have said here, be very aware of what you are doing.

From: midwest
04-Jan-19
Badlands, You should have seen if Utah would give you a refund on the NR licenses you bought. :-)

From: Knothead
04-Jan-19
When you apply in AZ you must list your social security number. They cross reference SSN#, with state tax, fed tax, voting record and even deadbeat dad report. At least this is what I was told by G&F when I inquired about why I have to list my SSN# when I have a hunter ID. I try to limit all the places my valuable ID info is at.

I recommend the original poster contact Utah G&F offices and talk to someone who actually knows the rule/laws. Good Luck

From: Native Okie
04-Jan-19
Ike x2. I moved to Utah from Colorado in October 2017. I spoke to both Utah and Colorado and I was a NR in both states last year due to the 6 month rule when it came to the spring draws. It went as far as the head of Parks and Wikdlife in Colorado to confirm. Most all state statutes will say if you move with the “intent” to reside for work, etc you are a resident of that state.

After my 6 months I was able to purchase a Gen tag as a resident in Utah.

  • Sitka Gear