Sitka Mountain Gear
Pen raised deer???
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
pointingdogs 07-Jan-19
Dale06 07-Jan-19
Slate 07-Jan-19
TXHunter 07-Jan-19
drycreek 07-Jan-19
spike78 07-Jan-19
Buffalo1 07-Jan-19
ground hunter 07-Jan-19
pointingdogs 07-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 08-Jan-19
LINK 08-Jan-19
Mule Power 08-Jan-19
Fuzz 08-Jan-19
jjs 08-Jan-19
bigswivle 08-Jan-19
1boonr 08-Jan-19
pointingdogs 08-Jan-19
lawdy 08-Jan-19
Zbone 08-Jan-19
JTV 08-Jan-19
JTV 08-Jan-19
JTV 08-Jan-19
Genesis 08-Jan-19
JTV 08-Jan-19
lawdy 08-Jan-19
Alaska at heart 08-Jan-19
JL 08-Jan-19
Genesis 08-Jan-19
1boonr 08-Jan-19
JL 08-Jan-19
Pope125 08-Jan-19
Seahorse 08-Jan-19
GF 08-Jan-19
stick'n string 08-Jan-19
crankn101 08-Jan-19
GF 08-Jan-19
Muskrat 09-Jan-19
1boonr 09-Jan-19
lawdy 09-Jan-19
Ironbow 09-Jan-19
Missouribreaks 09-Jan-19
Muskrat 09-Jan-19
Elkhorn 09-Jan-19
loprofile 09-Jan-19
GF 09-Jan-19
stick'n string 09-Jan-19
lawdy 09-Jan-19
LKH 09-Jan-19
Alaska at heart 10-Jan-19
Dale06 10-Jan-19
JL 10-Jan-19
From: pointingdogs
07-Jan-19
I would like to know some info. PLEASE DO NOT let this become a B**** thread. Thanks. So I see this Keith Warren always showing pen raised deer. Can someone please explain to me how these people make money off of these deer. Do they sell the genetics? Do they sell these deer to be shot in pens?? Seems like a lot of work with a "limited" market. Thanks for your input.

From: Dale06
07-Jan-19
They sell semen from big bucks at an astromical amount, $1000s a squirt. Some of the big bucks are sold to game farms where people pay to shoot them, lots of $$ for the bigger ones. Some bucks are sold as breeders. And urine from bucks and does is sold for scents.

From: Slate
07-Jan-19
Yes and yes and there is a whole nother world you don’t know about where very rich people buy whatever they want. There is a huge market for it. It’s just not your market. To each there own if that’s what you want to do.

From: TXHunter
07-Jan-19
Just like with prized bulls or stallions, the big money is in the sale of semen straws for genetics. They can go for a pretty penny - a few years ago it was crazy what semen and/or breeder bucks would sell for.

The bucks that don’t quite make “breeder” grade are put out to be “hunted” on basically canned hunts.

From: drycreek
07-Jan-19
They sell straws of semen for BIG $$$, and when the buck gets too old they let some "hunter" shoot him for more BIG $$$. There may be other ways but these are two that I know of. I'm pretty big on private property rights, but this is one practice that I wish Texas had nipped in the bud. Too much money for important people now though. That horse is outa the barn. That wasn't too much bitchin' now was it ? :-)

From: spike78
07-Jan-19
I’ve read of champion Alpacas going for a stud fee of $10,000. Not a buck but stud fees are expensive business.

From: Buffalo1
07-Jan-19
They collect sperm and urine for product. They are used for breeders. When breeding capability expires, they are sold for trophy hunts. All four areas are money producers for an owner and there are markets for each.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the urine segment of the business as several states have or will be banning the sale of urine because the urine is a carrier for CWD.

THESE CONTENTS ARE CERTIFIED NON-BS INFORMATION !!

07-Jan-19
It's a tough business these days with CWD. Many that I know have left it.

07-Jan-19
Bucks of Tecomate,,,,,,

From: pointingdogs
07-Jan-19
Thanks to all that replied. Interesting. Seems to me that this "may" someday become like the "Ostrich Pyramid scheme" years ago where they sold for $$$$ until the market was saturated and then collapsed. Probably not exactly the same. Thanks once more.

08-Jan-19
Many of these bucks are also farmed for the velvet market which is big in Asia for eastern medicine.

From: LINK
08-Jan-19
I don’t know why these bucks semen brings big money. After all everyone knows a buck is only 1/2 of the equation and just because a guy is 6’8” doesn’t mean his kids will be.....;). For you guys from Rio Linda, that’s dripping with sarcasm.

From: Mule Power
08-Jan-19
If you have to ask you have a lot to learn. There’s a big demand and the figures for not only big bucks and demen but also for does that have a record of producing monster bucks.

From: Fuzz
08-Jan-19
The best proven does go for the same or more money than the bucks.

From: jjs
08-Jan-19
I know a gent that was into deer farming and above threads are correct, it is about genetics for producing horns. There was or is a buck in Indiana that was supporting horns over 400+ and the money from the sperm was a money maker. Many of your TV big buck hunts come from this, infact, a taxidermist friend mounted the same buck horns prior to it was being killed by a blond lady on TV, shed from prior year. This reminds me of an incident one late winter where I use to live, there was a metal tank that fell off a truck on Interstate 90/94 and it was shut down because of a bomb threat. The DOD was called out of Ft. McCoy for disposal threat and found out it was a container of bull sperm that was being transferred to a cattle breeder, that eventually came on Jay Leno's joke.

From: bigswivle
08-Jan-19
There’s been more than a few does purchased and turned loose on free range land.

From: 1boonr
08-Jan-19
I know a guy who owns a 400 acre pen and he told me he can’t buy enough deer to satisfy all of the “ hunters” that he has lined up for a hunt.

From: pointingdogs
08-Jan-19
1boonr... that is a surprise to me. Who would have thought that... not me.

From: lawdy
08-Jan-19
I live a mile from an elk and buffalo farm. They are raised for meat and for a price, you can shoot one. The guy who owns them is a multi-millionaire and for him, it is a hobby. His big bull buffalo got loose and a 90 year-old lady led him down the road back to his field like he was a pet cow. The game wardens sat in their pickups and watched in amazement. She gives him apples all the time and he is a baby aroun her, plus she is fearless having run logging camps her whole life. Tough lady.

From: Zbone
08-Jan-19
Tame Bison buffalo, wow... Heard they couldn't be tamed and told never get inside a fence with them unless you want a hurting...

From: JTV
08-Jan-19

JTV's Link
Just ask Jimmy Houston how his canned hunt of the "elusive Indiana Whiletail went" back in 2004 ..... smh ....

https://newsok.com/article/2931320/reputation-under-firebrhunting-video-threatens-to-tarnish-jimmy-houstons-image

From: JTV
08-Jan-19
US Fish & Wildlife Service FieldNotes Indiana Deer Farmer to Pay $575,000 in Fines and Restitution as Part of Plea Agreement Region 0, January 12, 2005 Russell G. Bellar, owner of Bellar's Place, Inc., a 1,200 acre deer farm near Peru, Ind., pleaded guilty in federal court in South Bend, Indiana, to two felony violations of the Lacey Act, including conspiracy, and one felony violation of a federal food and drug law, on Jan. 12. As part of the plea agreement, Bellar will pay a $5,000 fine, $120,000 restitution for investigative costs, and a $450,000 payment in lieu of the forfeiture of assets listed in the 38-count indictment. Bellar has also agreed to assist the government in its on-going investigation. Bellar may also face a prison sentence of up to two years. Sentencing for possible prison time will not take place until this spring.

From: JTV
08-Jan-19

JTV's Link
link to the above ^^ ... this where Houston was caught shooting a drugged deer ^^

https://www.fws.gov/fieldnotes/print/print_report.cfm?arskey=14636

From: Genesis
08-Jan-19
Pen is such a harsh word

From: JTV
08-Jan-19
Caged deer then ...... ;0)

From: lawdy
08-Jan-19
ZBone, you heard right. That same bull just about destroyed a Ram pickup, but Marion Gray, that lady I mentioned is quite an outdoors woman. She is a hoot to talk with. Animals love her. She lives alone with a menagerie. Animals sense things we don’t.

08-Jan-19
There is an operation like this not 15 miles from my home. They have signs advertising "Trophy Deer hunts" as well as "Doe meat, $9.95/pound". The free ranging buck I shot this year with my bow weighed all of 200# on the hoof and I got about 75-80# of processed meat.....plus my cape and antlers. For a $20 resident MI tag plus processing cost, I paid about $1.20/pound. There was no travel fees or trophy fees, plus I don't factor in the cost of my gear because it is my year around hobby. So $10/pound is pretty expensive venison from a resident hunter standpoint.

From: JL
08-Jan-19
Open question....is shooting pen deer the same as shooting island deer?

From: Genesis
08-Jan-19
You have never hunted an island ya say?

From: 1boonr
08-Jan-19
Island deer are wild and can escape. Pen deer do not fear humans and can’t escape. Remember the old scentblocker show with Scott Schultz. He tried to show how well his suit worked while hunting in a pen in Iowa. Why would anybody need to hunt in a pen in Iowa?

From: JL
08-Jan-19

JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
Island deer can't escape either if they're on an island where swimming isn't an option. On the flip side....those 50K+ acre high fence ranches in Texas have lots of places for the deer to run. Point being...I think it's a matter of perspective.

Anyone wanting to dabble in pen deer will need some "bucks".

From: Pope125
08-Jan-19
Had a good friend ran a high fence operation would not believe the money they made. He said one weekend he had a family come in from Texas , oil money , in three days he spend $250,000 .

From: Seahorse
08-Jan-19
Farmed deer: Bringing CWD to a deer herd near you!

From: GF
08-Jan-19
JL has a point - not about the island but about the size of the pen.

JMO, it’s not about the size of the pen so much as the degree to which the population density has been artificially elevated and the extent to which the animals’ behavior has been altered as a result.

Shooting a deer over a bait pile isn’t intrinsically any more “sporting” or Fair Chase than shooting one inside of a fence; CAN be, and there are a few guys who hunt (legally) in baited areas and who have my respect....

But not many.

08-Jan-19
I live in South Texas, were deer breeding began and flourished for years before tarnishing the image of legitimate hunting in this state nationally. I know a number of people who have run deer breeding operations and it is every bit as expensive and time consuming as raising Wagyu beef or whatever kind of specialized livestock operation you can think of. But the result is livestock, nonetheless. In Texas, no-one was selling urine for scents. They were selling bred does and semen straws until the bucks reached a certain age and they were released in a pen to be shot by well-heeled sports with the same drive that apparently causes grown men to drive Mazerratis. What happened was that people stopped caring about 200+ inch deer. The market has begun to dry up. When you go to a deer contest in Texas now, people will flock around the truck with a 150 inch deer from the low fence division while the a-hole standing there with his 330 is practically scorned.

Livestock. That is all in the world it is. Give me a low fenced spike over a 200+ inch breeder buck with an ear tag any day of the week.

From: crankn101
08-Jan-19
Pretty much the same as feeding them year round.

From: GF
08-Jan-19
You know, Stick, that’s the best news about deer hunting that I’ve heard in YEARS....

From: Muskrat
09-Jan-19
I have a couple of friends who have paid thousands for a guaranteed high fence hunt to put a huge Whitetail rack on the wall. In the case of one of the hunts described to me, the game farm manager sits in the blind with the 'hunter' and tells him the price of each of the bucks as it comes to the feeder. I avoid even discussing these hunts with them, as there is something very undesirable and maybe even disgusting about these 'hunts' to me. Definitely not my kind of thing.

From: 1boonr
09-Jan-19
Muskrat- that ain’t hunting.

From: lawdy
09-Jan-19
People complain about canned hunting, but pay thousands for exclusive rights to property with food plots, heated blinds, bait piles, etc. Face it, in many states, hunting is becoming a rich man’s sport. When a resident can’ t hunt without driving hours to crowded public land, it won’ t be in his interest to support hunting legislation. I am so fortunate to live in a state and area that supports an open-land concept. We have very few deer up here and lots of bear, but if you put in the miles, the odds shift. I have neighbors who let me roam at will and my 60 acres is open as well. Plus, we have literally hundreds of thousands of acres to roam. This is country for those willing to scout and actually hunt, not unlike hunting the Adirondacks or the Allagash. With our Fish and Game working on a plan to eliminate baiting and feeding over the next two years, it will become even better as deer in many areas up here stay in the big woods. Better for us who go after them. I can’ t go to most states to hunt without paying huge bucks, nor would I want to. You, on the other hand are more than welcome to come here to Northern NH, and Northern Maine, park your camper in an abandoned wood yard, and hunt to your hearts content in solitude. It’s not about the kill up here, it’s the experience of roaming these mountains, never seeing another hunter, or a no trespassing sign.

From: Ironbow
09-Jan-19
Years ago there was a well known hunter on the cover of North American Whitetail with a huge buck. Shot it on his own property in east Texas. As the story unfolded later (not in NAW), he purchased the buck as a 3 yr old and turned it loose on his fenced in property. Three or so years later he killed it.

Granted, he has a large property and manages it well. But there was something about it after hearing the real story (which he posted himself) on buying a buck and killing it later that just didn't set well with me.

09-Jan-19
Hogs are hunted in pens all the time.

From: Muskrat
09-Jan-19
A suppose the same attitude about this kind of 'hunting' applies to hogs and other game animals for most of us. There are places to hunt free range 'wild' hogs, and there are places to hunt high fence hogs.

From: Elkhorn
09-Jan-19
If an animals not free it’s not hunting

From: loprofile
09-Jan-19
Our deer don't need no wall

From: GF
09-Jan-19
OK, Lawdy - I’m sold!

LOL... Does sound good, though.

My bro-in-law & his family recently moved up to Hanover, so maybe next year it’s Thanksgiving at their house

09-Jan-19
Leasing land, feeding wild deer and managing your herd through harvest - even on high fenced ranches of sufficient size is nowhere near what deer breeding represents. It is livestock hunting. You may as well shoot a three year old holstein heifer and get better quality table fare.

From: lawdy
09-Jan-19
GF, Keep driving North for three hours when you get to Hanover and you will be where I live. Let me know when you come North and I will set you loose on the timberlands up here. Buzz up in the winter and I will take you hare hunting. I have a beagle that is always raring to go. Come up in June before we head for Newfy and I will take you 10 miles into the timberlands to fish for Brookies. Hanover is where we go if we need a hospital. All bad stuff gets a helicopter ride from our village heliopad.

From: LKH
09-Jan-19
Before they outlawed game farm "hunts" here in Montana my neighbor had a penned elk shooting operation. They knew my feelings and one night at dinner the wife said "do you mean to say you wouldn't shoot our big bull (about 410) if we let you?" I told her I'd rather shoot one of their cows (Angus).

If you're willing to shoot someones livestock, regardless of the species, have at it but don't call it hunting.

10-Jan-19
I have a longtime acquaintance who was a professional forester. He had fingers in many pies, as he did everything from clear cutting for pulp wood to habitat management through selective cutting. For a while he helped out at a game farm that specialized in elk.

He related one "hunt" where a well heeled fellow who had paid many thousands of dollars for a particularly large elk was waiting with his rifle and "guide". They had barely unloaded the elk from a horse trailer into the particular fenced area they were going to be when a LOUD shot rang out. Not 50 yards from the trailer the "hunter" had blasted this elk. When asked why he didn't wait to make it a bit more "sporting", he replied, "I didn't want it to get away".

Then there was the fellow who instantly became a celebrity over on Archery Talk because of all the huge bucks he had killed. When his stories unraveled, most of them were killed on game farms to build his "resume". His desire was to get big name sponsorships and likely a cable TV show of his own. Seems he was paving the way when the road fell out from underneath him.

From: Dale06
10-Jan-19
Saw a show last night on one of the outdoor channels. The Keith Warren show what ever it is called. They had pens of bucks with unbelievable racks. I’m guessing 30 or more scrabble points. It was truly amazing. And they had bucks with first year racks that were well over 125”. I don’t know whether it was genetics, food , steroids, or what but they were freakish large. Frankly it was interesting, but I have zero desire to pay any money to shoot one of those deer. But somebody does.

From: JL
10-Jan-19
"Then there was the fellow who instantly became a celebrity over on Archery Talk because of all the huge bucks he had killed. When his stories unraveled, most of them were killed on game farms to build his "resume".

That sounds like the classic "Ohio Booners" or "Ohio Giant" thread. It also borne the famous "quiver lickers" name for all of his faithful fan boys. There are alot of lessons that can be learned in that very long thread about pics of large animals being taken. Trust but verify, internet flaming, cowboyin' up when you're proven wrong, etc.

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