How to sell a trad bow building business
Equipment
My longtime hunting partner is retiring from bow building and wants to sell out. This includes tons of materials, jigs, presses, oven, sanders and grinders, etc.
Any suggestions about how to market something like this?
I have a close family member in the same situation. He has been at it for a couple of years now and is still looking for a buyer. He makes roughly 200 ish bows a year so its a pretty substantial business. If your partner is somewhat small time and he has the time, he may be best off finding an apprentice to work with and groom to run things and eventually take over. Tough to get more than what the machinery and material is worth unless he can pass on the skill aspect with it. At least that is my take.... A rocket ship is worthless if you can't drive it kinda thing.
X2 320....I don`t know how you sell a "art". Bow building is a rare talent....it`s not like trying to sell a car wash. The apprenticeship thing is what I would think would be the best way to go.
I have a mantra....."each one must teach one". You have a unique skill....pass it on.
Thanks, and thats pretty much what I suggested too. He has retired and just wants out, so his best bet is probably to piece it out and get whatever he can.
It's too bad because he built outstanding bows, but he's ready to move on.
Maybe start a thread on Bowsite??
Yup find an apprentice, otherwise go to sites like the Leatherwall or Tradgang and post his stuff there. He is gonna take a beating but may recoup some of his money. Shawn
PSU, he's in northern CO.
You can look at old traditional hunting magazines from the 1980's and 90's and many of the bowyers are no longer in business. It's a competitive, tricky market and the actual "bow building" and artistry is often the least of your worries. I'm pretty good buddies with two bowyers here in western Montana and they're dialed in but their actual business acumen has allowed them to live the dream now for decades......along with beautiful bows.
Lou
Have Tom put a Sitka emblem on the stuff and it will skyrocket in price and sell quick
Have your friend contact RMSGear out side Denver and they may be a good resource for him since they deal in tradbows. If he has a trademark on his design it may add value to the forms he wants to sale. Been other by-gone bowyers that have either retired or pass on where others have came in and carry on the product.
"Where is he located at?"
This get your wheels spinning Aaron?
To me a trad biw business IS the bowyer. If he doesn’t come with it it’s only worth the value of the equipment.
I'd agree with Mule to a certain degree, but you can't tell me that if Black Widow was for sale right now today that someone wouldn't buy it very quickly based on being able to capitalize on the brand/reputation.
Dredging back in my trad days memory, I believe Jim Brackenbury mentored Wes Wallace and Norm Johnson of Black Tail bows out in the Pacific northwest. My first thought was the apprentice route as well, but if your friend wants out he may as well part it out for what he can get for his equipment. A longtime friend had a small trad bow operation in his polebarn back in the 1980's through the late 1990's and I learned the basics from him. It is indeed an art form and labor of love. When he closed shop he just turned off the lights on that side. I don't think he sold any of his gear and it is probably there under a tarp.
Kelley Custom Bows. He never needed a website because he built and sold all he could produce (one man operation) through word of mouth, brochures, and repeat customers. He built awesome bows. And you guys are right about the mentoring-apprenticeship. He originally learned from a friend who learned from Mike Palmer. Pretty sure he is resigned to advertising and piecing out the equipment and materials. But I offered to post something on here to tap the collective wisdom of Bowsiters.
Thanks for the feedback!
After giving this some more thought.....along the lines of Nick. If I was a bowyer and this guy had an established brand and customer base....it would not be a bad idea to slide in and take the reins. As long as he was able to step in and produce the same product.
Start a post on the leatherwall. Also, he could go to some of the team events and see if he can find an interested party.
Tell him to put a Mathews sign up next to it saying start your own Mathews Traditional bow business. It will sell like a hot cake!
You also have to be able repair damaged/returned bows and come in dead nuts on weight at the specified draw on custom orders which isn't always easy. Black widow or any business that uses computerized C&C equipment to cut out risers would be easier but more expensive to take over. Which is why I don't put those in quite the same category as risers/bows that are individually shaped by the bowyer.
Actually, I have been thinking about it for years and now laid off from my career job, (actually built a few laminated bows in the past), but unfortunately since layoff haven't the money to now invest...
Certainly can be a tough sell. Tom's bows are very nice and for a guy wanting to start out, having his forms and a couple months of mentoring would be a giant head start. Since he didn't advertise much he won't have a lot of name or reputation value to add but the designs and knowledge have value for the right buyer.
It is tough to sell a bow business. Over the past few years there have been a some well known bowyers that have just quit. Some of them had a big following and built fantastic bows. One of the ones that did sell - Mike Fedora - was in the business for decades. The buyers haven't been able to build his business back to where it was when he ran it.
Jack Howard made bows that were recognized for decades as excellent performers and beautiful works of art. He tried to to sell his business for many years. He wanted $30 thousand for his supplies, tools and knowledge. He offered to work with anyone that bought his business to teach them how he did it. He died without selling the business.
I hope that this person can sell the business to someone that has the dedication and persistence to make it work. But I don't think he'll get nearly what it is worth as a price. If he does find the right person maybe selling the equipment and getting modest price for his expertise and market following along a royalty agreement may be beneficial.
spike78, Matthews has built longbows, a friend got one of the first ones for doing interior office work at their company. Big Horn recurves went through number of hands, Sierra Blanca bows is building from Rocky Mnt Recurves a fine shooters, Beck bought out Black Widow and sold it, Fedora Bows were taken over from Mike Sr several yrs ago and Sky Bows are being remade, RER was bought when Kevin retired. Just take a special person with the talent to make a business out of it, always a niche for fine stick bows. It is magical when everything comes together on a hunt with it.
Widows are all cnc machined now, not much to do with a true "custom" like a Robertsons or a Bob Lee. Basically, with Widows, you're buying machines and programs...
Sad he's getting out of the business Lou, you've told me a lot about his bows. Tommy from rmsg gave Buddy the stuff from Rampart, and when something happended to Mike from Hawk bows, no one got his equipment. When John Frazio passed away, his wife wanted a lot of money for his stuff and no one bought it. Have no idea where his forms and stuff is at, Run an ad in Traditional Bowhunter. You never know....
I disagree with Mule Power. My buddy was a long-time trad bowyer (Zipper Bows) and recently sold that business to a friend, after a short mentoring period. From what I can tell, the new owner is doing fine. As for how he did it, his buddy was a long-time customer that loved those bows and decided on a career change, and the timing was perfect.
Lou, tell him to talk to Tom at Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear, maybe he will have some connections or ideas that could help him. It is worth a shot as he has nothing to loose.
Ya know.... maybe I am wrong. Paul Shafer bows continued sfter he passed. If the name is well established it might have a value. The new owner would just have to make people aware of ghe apprenticeship and your buddy should be available to him for consulting and such. It could work. Buy it Lou! If anyone could make it fly you can.
I recall a few bowyers who retired in recent years and sold the company.The only one who’s name comes to me off hand is Bob Morrison ( Morrison Bows) from Ohio. If he did a little web search on the leather wall or other trad sites I’m sure he could find the others. He then could possibly reach out to the original owners and speak to them...
Black Widow Bows has 10 to 15 employees that run the company . The operation that we are discussing is a one man operation. If you buy black widow the boys are going to keep building bows. If you buy a one man operation you better know how to build bows. There is a big difference. Any small business needs someone to take over The more technical the longer it takes to train someone how to run it. Your friend should have been thinking about this 5 years ago. I have a friend that is a carpenter that has a fantastic business but he does not want to deal with employees. When he decides he is done guess what is going to happen.
Depends on how fast he wants out, if he could find a motivated young lad or lass to come on as an apprentice and then buy it once they know what they are doing!
RMSG has a link on their site to a small bowyer who was in a situation just like this if I remember right. I recall reading that the guy took on an apprentice who took over his 'brand' and still builds one or two of his designs.
Thanks for all the feedback and I passed it on. He doesn't need the money. He's more interested just moving everything to someone who will keep building bows rather than simpky "getting rid" of everything. But as many have noted, the apprenticeship transfer would be the best option. Too late for that now. He'll figure it out. Thanks for all the ideas..
I hope he finds a good solution, I always appreciated private bowyers.
This thread is from 2019. I'm sure there's been a resolution to all of this by now. I would be curious to know what happened however?
I had forgotten that I'd even commented on this thread so I re-read all the comments and something else came to mind: I attended the Montana Bowhunters Banquet this spring and talked with Dave Windauer who now builds Schafer Silvertip bows. He's roughly my age and our sons both wrestle and we'd run into each other on wrestling weekends etc...
In addition, I had the chance to as a teenager to hunt a few times with Paul Schafer and I wouldn't put anyone over him in terms of "all around hunter." However, my personal opinion is that Dave is a better bow builder than Paul as far as craftsmanship and I told him as much at the banquet. Of course Dave worked for Paul much like an apprentice as a teenager and I feel he went beyond what Paul had taught him which is great.
My point goes along with what another pointed out and that is it certainly can work but you need the right person and situation and that's difficult to foresee and predict.
Lastly, Dave related a hilarious story as he was first testing fast flight strings with his bows years ago. He said he dressed up in heavy clothing, goggles and helmet and dry-fired his bows with fast-flight material strings to see how his bows would hold up.....dozens of times. I would have loved to video that one:)
Mike
Wouldn't hurt to talk to Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear. They might be able to get the word out or know someone interested since they are in Colorado. I pray someone with motivation and determination buys the business. I've seen some bowyers bought out and the new owner did well and I've seen the opposite. I hope it works out for him Lou.
Tom had a buyer lined up, for a really fair price for both, but he backed out at the last minute. He hasn't tried very hard to sell it because he doesn't need the money. He was just hoping someone would enjoy getting into the business and building excellent bows from his designs. He has pretty much moved on and not actively looking for a buyer anymore, but he still has all the equipment and formulas.
Thats how South at Stalker got started- he bought and mentored in. He just bought Dryad and must be doing well.
Morrison sold his business the same way, to a guy that he showed how to make some bows and the guy seems to be doing pretty good especially with his max six limbs. Someone will want it.
That business is going to CNC machining- someone with that kind of experience could take it and run with it.
Thats how South at Stalker got started- he bought and mentored in. He just bought Dryad and must be doing well.
Morrison sold his business the same way, to a guy that he showed how to make some bows and the guy seems to be doing pretty good especially with his max six limbs. Someone will want it.
That business is going to CNC machining- someone with that kind of experience could take it and run with it.
I was in Richs shop ( Yellowstone custom bows) not long ago,,2 months maybe..hes hanging it up as well. Hes a fantastic bowyer,he has an apprentice guy taking the reigns when he quits. I just missed out there....Rich is legendary, his knowledge was remarkable,he'll be missed as a builder....
Few guys I know that retired found an apprentice who they trained then sold out.
There’s an old saying among People who have studied the success or failure of Entepreneurs that if you are the only one who can do what you do, you don’t have a Business; you just have a Job.
Bighorn survived a few changes in ownership - at least one of them pretty disastrous, I gather - mainly because of the Asbell Mystique. And I think that’s likely going to be the norm in custom bows; Bear, Wing, Widow, Martin/Howatt - those just a few of the operations that are big enough that they became known for turning out a quality bow, period. Probably nobody outside the business could tell you who actually built any given specimen….
Seems like the one-man operations are all about the One Guy. Sort of like Art. It’s pretty beautiful, in a way - the idea that a bow is more than the sum of its parts because of the man who put them together - but it’s tough to pass that torch unless the successor takes it very personally AND recognizes that it’s not about him. Which I suppose is why it’s easier to see long-term success when a business is handed down within a family.
Because I’ll tell ya one thing….
I could buy Tom out…. and all I would have is a bunch of nice tools and a list of people soon to be disappointed….
I have significant experience selling businesses, both good and bad. I'm not sure I could help with how to seek out a buyer for such a specialized business, but I could give tons of advice on what to do once you have an offer. There are many legal ways for a dishonest buyer to cheat you out of what he owes you once he gets his hands on your lifes work.
And just because someone can build a quality widget, doesn't mean he can teach someone else to do it. I'm an excellent finish carpenter, but nothing drives me crazy faster than having to explain what I'm doing and why to someone else.
I am of the opinion that if you do not have employees, you do not have a business but a job. When you quit, there is no business. Selling such a venture is as hard as selling somebody your job. Like a mechanic with his own tools or a kid who mows lawns, you have a bowyer with his own tools. He may have some inventory of work in progress, raw materials and finished goods, but the main value aside from that and tools is his skills and reputation and those quit with him. The "business" to sell is just equipment and a customer list. I am not sure how much recurring revenue one gets from a trad bow customer list though.
Id suggest that the seller offers his services to the new owner for a period of time, a mentor. Be on call when help is needed or full time with the new owner. As mentioned bow making is a skill/art.
Its a very tough business environment now its hard to compete with the imports some of which are very very nice.I think it would take owner financing and mentoring as already mentioned.The value is mostly in the tools unless its some company with an existing reputation-like Shrew bows for example but even they dont have the following they once had.
since the OP was almost 4 1/2 years ago Id like to know what happened.
Jaquomo?
Yes, he sold it for what he was asking, and for more than we were expecting. The value was not only in the tools, oven, presses, and wood,, but also in his proprietary limb and taper formulas.
what is the name of the bow company?
Well turns out I purchased Talltines archery in 2019 so I have some recent personal experience. Values range from 50 to 150,000. Depending on the market and equipment. They can be tough to sell especially in this case where an online market does not exist. In addition, training is a huge part of the sale in most cases as it was in my purchase.
I would say the best method would be Word of mouth through our traditional Archery community which is very tightknit.
I was just going to post that I think a Bowsite bought Tall Tines, and what do you know it the last response on the thread lol...
how do you make a million dollars in the custom trad bow business? start with two million...
I love starting to read a thread and halfway thru realize it is 4 years old, then fast-forward to end and get resolution. Good for your friend Lou.
Yes that was me, I'm very happy with my purchase
My friend's company was Kelley Custom Bows. He actually did very well with his business with minimal advertising. He had orders for more bows than he could build. But he didn't need the money so it was a labor of love for him until injuries made it impossible to draw his bows.
Yeah, when a guy can buy a crazy good ILF riser for $130 and a top manufacturers ILF limbs like the WNS C3's for under $125......with that setup outperforming 90% of the customs....
I wouldn't want to compete against that.
The finish on these imports is excellent I'm not sure why Bear Archery can't figure it out even on their LE bows.
"I was in Richs shop ( Yellowstone custom bows) not long ago,,2 months maybe..hes hanging it up as well. Hes a fantastic bowyer,he has an apprentice guy taking the reigns when he quits. I just missed out there....Rich is legendary, his knowledge was remarkable,he'll be missed as a builder...."
Rich is one of the greatest for sure. Between my son and I we have 4 of his bows. Yellowstone, half breed, Renegade flat bow and Hunter. I actually got to go to Africa with him and Ric Anderson back in 1999. Both terrific craftsmen and hunters. Ric stepped away from building some really fine bows. I have one myself. Glad Rich is finding someone to take over. I gave it some thought but was still hard at my job and raising kids.
"I was in Richs shop ( Yellowstone custom bows) not long ago,,2 months maybe..hes hanging it up as well. Hes a fantastic bowyer,he has an apprentice guy taking the reigns when he quits. I just missed out there....Rich is legendary, his knowledge was remarkable,he'll be missed as a builder...."
Rich is one of the greatest for sure. Between my son and I we have 4 of his bows. Yellowstone, half breed, Renegade flat bow and Hunter. I actually got to go to Africa with him and Ric Anderson back in 1999. Both terrific craftsmen and hunters. Ric stepped away from building some really fine bows. I have one myself. Glad Rich is finding someone to take over. I gave it some thought but was still hard at my job and raising kids.
Back in the 90s I glued up a few bows after taking a bowyery course from Dave Guthrie of Appalachian Archery but had too good a regular job at the time to quit and take it up full time, so thought about maybe doing it after retirement.... Now retired and want no part of it, but I still have my oven and form.... I don't know, maybe tinker in the future when I run out of things to do, but that's a long list...8^)
