Moultrie Products
Do You Think Dead In the Hand = Accuracy
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Starfire 18-Jan-19
standswittaknife 18-Jan-19
Brotsky 18-Jan-19
Bowfreak 18-Jan-19
x-man 18-Jan-19
trkyslr 18-Jan-19
GF 18-Jan-19
Bowfreak 18-Jan-19
12yards 18-Jan-19
Pat Lefemine 18-Jan-19
drycreek 18-Jan-19
Matt 18-Jan-19
JTV 18-Jan-19
ohiohunter 18-Jan-19
Buffalo1 18-Jan-19
trkyslr 18-Jan-19
GF 18-Jan-19
Ermine 19-Jan-19
wyobullshooter 19-Jan-19
Billyvanness 19-Jan-19
RogBow 19-Jan-19
Elkslaya 19-Jan-19
ELKMAN 20-Jan-19
DMTJAGER 28-Jan-19
SaddleReaper 28-Jan-19
From: Starfire
18-Jan-19
I just shot the one of the new flagship bows. At the shot, It is dead in the hand vs. my 10 year old bow. Do you think this translates into accuracy or is the vibration we feel from a bow after the arrow leaves and therefore doesn't make that much difference.

18-Jan-19
I think it creates a better hunting scenario and quiets the bow. Being more comfortable shooting a bow, imo, inherently makes it more accurate. Same thing with a suppressor on a rifle. the less kick, noise the more accurate the shooter is..

From: Brotsky
18-Jan-19
I think it helps with noise and makes the bow more pleasurable to shoot. My standard for what I feel will be an accurate bow is how steady it holds at full draw and how well balanced it is in my hand at rest.

From: Bowfreak
18-Jan-19
No. It does not make a bow more accurate.

From: x-man
18-Jan-19
It may make you more accurate, but not the bow.

From: trkyslr
18-Jan-19
Standswithaknife, is correct

From: GF
18-Jan-19
I'm with SWAK, mostly, though it's not so much the noise & recoil that screws up good shooting as the anticipation of it. The Flinch. Train your body to not anticipate getting smacked and you can shoot just about anything you want, which is why God gave us the .22LR.

BTDT, sold the Magnum and went back to it 2 case sizes smaller.

(Still own the .22, but this is CT where you need to have your fingerprints on file with the FBI in order to get an ammo purchase card, so I've pretty much quit....)

The Vibration that you feel is the result of limbs slamming into the travel limits imposed by the string/cables and the vibration of the string caused when it gets plucked by the nock as the arrow departs. In super-slow-mo, I've seen arrows cling to the string for a couple inches past brace height, which just hauls kinetic energy back into the bow. We have a world-record setting flight shooter on LW who says that most arrows (in his world) depart the string as it begins to slow down BEFORE the string reaches its original brace height, but I'd bet that he uses a looser-fitting nock than most hunters would want to deal with.

But... Truth be told....

All bows are inherently more accurate than the people who use them. Some designs (high let-off, riser design, etc.) are easier to shoot well than others, but JMO, "dead in the hand" is more of a set-up issue unless you are dealing with a really old-school design on your bow where the limb tips travel forward, rather than pretty much all vertically.

But I don't get noticeable hand-shock with properly setup recurves or long-bows, either, so we're back to set-up, rather than design...

From: Bowfreak
18-Jan-19
I say it doesn't even make the shooter more accurate. Has anyone ever shot a target bow? Lack of hand shock is not the way you would describe one and target shooters aren't clamoring for that more dead in the hand feel. Matter of fact, many will ask for the opposite. They like to feel feedback.

If "dead in the hand" meant accuracy, pro archers would be screaming for their bows to be dead in the hand.

From: 12yards
18-Jan-19
I shoot three different Elites. The Synergy is significantly more dead in hand and vibe free than my Impulse 34, which is still pretty good, and quite a bit more than my GT500 that gives me a definite recoil at the shot. I shoot them all equally well. So I don't think it effects accuracy for me.

From: Pat Lefemine
18-Jan-19
Agree with the above comments. I personally never was bothered by any bow's hand shock. Well, maybe an old PSE laserflight from 1985, but nothing in recent years. I don't think it helps with accuracy either. Just makes the bow a little more pleasurable to shoot is all. I don't even think it helps with sound. The characteristics I most care about are grip comfort, noise, and balance. And all of those are a distant second to accuracy. There are some bows I have owned that were "can't miss with them" rigs. The Vertix and No Cam are two of them. The Triax and Halon were very close.

From: drycreek
18-Jan-19
Consistentcy breeds accuracy assuming a well tuned setup. I can't see hand shock having much of an effect.

From: Matt
18-Jan-19
Simple answer, no.

From: JTV
18-Jan-19
the person behind the bow determines accuracy .........

From: ohiohunter
18-Jan-19
Is a bull barrel more accurate than a sporter? Nope

From: Buffalo1
18-Jan-19
Bow vibration tonme is the same as gun recoil. This equates to pleasure and comfort when shooting. All of these elements are positive responses to the brain and could add to accuracy.

Anticipation of negative response and feedback is not a positive thing.

From: trkyslr
18-Jan-19
Buffalo that’s true.

Here’s a little food for thought....

As mentioned above is a similar type comparison with a gun using a suppressor vs no suppressor .... I have been shooting a Remington 700 sps for several years with no suppressor and am a decent shot with it. During those years (with no suppressor or muzzle break) it kicked like a sob as it had a shorter barrel. Due to knowing how it will kick and to protect my shoulder, I would instinctively tense up/flex certain muscles in my shoulders and arms to take the kick/abuse easier. Doing this over time exerts the muscles quicker, which causes bad form and trigger pull. It’s all related from the mind executing the shot, including controlling the muscles actions to take the heavy recoil if I don’t want a severely bruised shoulder/injury after several shot. shooting a gun or bow to be most accurate through the whole shot process it’s best to have a steady firm base but to have a semi relaxed smooth trigger (and or release) pull at the shot for consistent accuracy. This will create correct muscle memory over time with a smooth shot execution. So a couple months ago I got a high dollar suppressor (yes legally) for my 700 and was amazed how it took away so much recoil and noise. Right away, it made the shot execution so much more enjoyable. After I got use to this over several shots, I noticed I had a much better and easier shot process. I was not tensing up muscles to take the heavy recoil and it made for a much easier and more consistent shot process as muscles in my upper extremities were more relaxed and not as tensed up. I noticed this made each shot process and trigger pull more consistent especially over time, which resulted in better accuracy. I went from a consistent 3/4” 3 shot group at 100 yards to nearly a 1/2” 3 shot group with the can and after several shots my accuracy is more consistent in the long run as my muscles aren’t getting tired. I know the recoil of shooting a gun vs the vibration (recoil) of shooting a bow is much more but it has the same effect but on a smaller scale. So imo a bow with noticeably less vibration at the shot will be more enjoyable to shoot, which will make the shot process easier, form better and more accurate especially after several shots. I just got a new bow with less vibe and after two weeks of shooting it I went back and shot my older bow with more vibration and it was noticeable in a negative way for me. This is just my experiences..

And remember guys target archers are shooting those giant tuning forks usually in the easy 50-60 pound range ;-)’

From: GF
18-Jan-19
More importantly, it’s PAT’s site. And he’s pretty gun-friendly ;)

How about this?

If the handshock is painful or unpleasant, very few shooters will be able to shoot that bow on a regular basis without developing some bad habits which will compromise accuracy sooner or later.

Mind over matter - if you don’t mind, it don’t matter.

From: Ermine
19-Jan-19
I would say they arent more accurate

19-Jan-19
No. Comparing hand shock to rifle recoil is a bit of a reach IMO.

19-Jan-19
A nice, quiet, dead in hand bow is more enjoyable to shoot no doubt. I have a 20 plus year old Mathews that I’ve kept set up for sentimental value...every once in a while I’ll shoot it and I’m always blown away at the shock and vibration. Bows that are nice and fun to shoot will lead to more practice and better accuracy IMO.

From: RogBow
19-Jan-19
I won't even take a bow off the rack if I don't see fixed yokes, tunability is where it is at not hand shock for which there is so little in bows these days anyway.

From: Elkslaya
19-Jan-19
My bow is fast, dead in the hand, and accurate. My previous bow, 82nd Airborne hurt my shoulder so much, I never noticed if it was dead in the hand or not. It was accurate though ;)

From: ELKMAN
20-Jan-19
It 100% absolutely does not...

From: DMTJAGER
28-Jan-19
Just one bow hunters thoughts and opinions based on shooting compounds for over 30 years. First compound I owned was a York Excalibur with a WODDEN riser no less!!! When was the last time ANYBODY made a compound with a wooden riser? I've since owned bows form Golden Eagle, Browning, High Country, PSE, Hoyt, Bowtech, Elite, a few I that escape me at this moment and my current favorite Darton. In all my decades of shooting compounds countless 100s of thousands of times I never even heard of let alone sensed hand shock or vibration when shooting a bow until I heard of it on a website like this one and then as I do know are 100% absolutely certain of this concerning hand shock and vibration as it applies to shooting compound bows.

100% B.S. and hype used by bow manufacturers to help sell their product and is AT BEST 100% purely a matter of SUBJECTIVE personal opinion and nothing more and has no real world affect on compound bow accuracy unless the archer THEMSELVES allow it to, hence the SUBJECTIVE part. Bow manufacturers found a unavoidable totally harmless characteristic that is common to all compound bows and some savvy sales exec ran with it. To ME compound bow hand shock and vibration have as much impact and importance on my shooting a bow well as the comfort and ride of my vehicle as I drive to and from my hunting area. One might prefer a vehicle that rides smooth as silk others like me it doesn't matter even 0.0001% both of us will get to and from our hunting areas 100% successfully every time and in the totality of the hunt it mattered exactly nothing in our success or failure.

100% marketing hype nothing more.

From: SaddleReaper
28-Jan-19
Sound is the dissipation or byproduct of vibration..... therefore a bow that is "vibration free" is likely to be quieter than one that is "not" (removing the variable of accessories). Fact is, they all produce vibration... no compound bow on the market today is 100% efficient in terms of energy input vs output. Perceivable vibration is very subjective however... since its what the user feels. So, unless accelerometers are being used to measure and substantiate the "dead in the hand/ no vibration" claims... those claims should be taken with a grain of salt.

In my time developing archery equipment I've watched and produced a lot of high speed camera footage. Its amazing to see what happens at the shot to rigid metallic and non metallic parts. One thing I've never had at my disposal though is an anechoic chamber to accurately measure sound output. I would venture to guess many archery companies (smaller ones especially) don't utilize the aforementioned equipment during R&D, product development, and testing. With the exception of a high speed camera... since those are easy to get ahold of.

So back to the original question. No, the dead in hand or vibration free claims of a bow don't directly effect accuracy, but they do tell you a little bit about the bows efficiency. The geometry of a bow has much larger impact on inherent accuracy, not to mention the tune, shooter, grip, etc. Another thing to consider is that vibration in any mechanical system can be detrimental to fastened joints and material fatigue rates. But take that with a grain of salt :)

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